Run Run Away » women’s running

Do OTHER people start to look different as you lose weight?

admin — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

@enews3.newsguy.com: I’ve noticed that as I lose weight other people start to look different. People who looked okay to me before start to look heavy. People who were thinner start to look closer to normal. Has anyone else had this experience?

Yes. I too noticed this. Its really wierd though. I seem to put myself in thier shoes again. I find myself wondering whats going on in thier head. I remember what it was like to stand in long lines while I was morbidly overweight. You catch people staring out of the corner of your eyes. Now I am one of those who stare. Now to be mean. Just remembering myself in thier shoes. Now I look back and wonder which of those many people who used to stare at me were overweight at one time and were just silently empathizing with me. — start 365 goal 200 maintaining 189-194 range current 190

Response:

You probably lost more than I did. My old 38 size pants look funny to me now, but the rest of my clothes experiences and perceptions is much more dull. Well, you know I lost more than you did! You lost a little over 20% of your bodyweight; I lost almost 50% of mine. You lost 48 lbs; I lost 128. And besides, women generally pay more attention to clothes .

Our body images are also very tied up in how we view ourselves and other people. I view myself as much smaller than I really am and it always has been a shock to see myself as others see me. Moira, the Faerie Godmother

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve noticed that as I lose weight other people start to look different. People who looked okay to me before start to look heavy. People who were thinner start to look closer to normal. Has anyone else had this experience? I had the same experience, yes. Fat people now look odd to me, whereas they looked quite normal when I was fat myself. Could be partly due to the rationalization of the effort to stay slim. I don’t think fat people look "odd" in any sense, but there are people whom I previously perceived as normal (i.e., a fair bit thinner than I was) whom I now perceive as overweight. Yes… Maybe, for me, my perception of normal tends to center around my own situation. So, as my situation changed, so did my perception of what is normal. What does strike me more is how, when I’m clothes shopping, clothes that used to look really small to me — the high end of the "normal" women’s size range, as opposed to the plus sizes I wore — now look huge . And the size 6s that I wear look bigger than those 16s used to. You probably lost more than I did. My old 38 size pants look funny to me now, but the rest of my clothes experiences and perceptions is much more dull.

Well, you know I lost more than you did! You lost a little over 20% of your bodyweight; I lost almost 50% of mine. You lost 48 lbs; I lost 128. And besides, women generally pay more attention to clothes . Chris 262/134/ (130-140)

Response:

I’ve noticed that as I lose weight other people start to look different. People who looked okay to me before start to look heavy. People who were thinner start to look closer to normal. Has anyone else had this experience? I had the same experience, yes. Fat people now look odd to me, whereas they looked quite normal when I was fat myself. Could be partly due to the rationalization of the effort to stay slim.

I don’t think fat people look "odd" in any sense, but there are people whom I previously perceived as normal (i.e., a fair bit thinner than I was) whom I now perceive as overweight. What does strike me more is how, when I’m clothes shopping, clothes that used to look really small to me — the high end of the "normal" women’s size range, as opposed to the plus sizes I wore — now look huge . And the size 6s that I wear look bigger than those 16s used to. Chris 262/134/ (130-140)

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In a somewhat different way, yes. I frequently hear comments that I am thin yet I am at least 20 pounds overfat. — Matthew 185/178/160

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When I was heavier some people didn’t look fat to me. As I shrink, these people are starting to look fat, yet they are the same size.

One thing I notice, even with people who are less overweight than I am, is how badly most people’s clothes fit. Half the men in America, and a fair percentage of the women, are running around with their potbellies hanging way over their belts. Men in dress shirts and neckties are bursting our of their collars. That’s the way it is when you’re gaining, ’cause no one wants to face facts and buy bigger clothes, and it sure describes the way I was. If you’re losing, though, trousers are a bit loose, belts have work to do, and you can slip a finger between your neck and your collar. Even with a BMI still in the high 30s, I realize I have the look of someone on the way down, and what I suddenly notice in others is the appearance of being on the way up, with clothes playing catchup. — Paul Turner

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mary, are you in one of those states who would not reissue you a driver’s license with a new photo? I am in one, infirtunately. Would love to get a new DL, but have to wait until 2007. I would have assumed it would be a great morale booster to have a reminder of how you used to look and all of the work you successfully put in to changing yourself. You could look at it either way. It would be a great morale booster to have a DL with a new photo. Anyhow, I have a fat photo of me in my home office, quite awful looking, that is enough. I lost my old DL (for real, I thought that I lost a wallet which was merely misplaced) and the state reissued me a new copy of a driver’s license, with my old photo from their computer file. I then found my old driver’s license, so now I have two identical ones.

We don’t have photos on our driving licences here. I think I’m quite glad about that as my weight fluctuates so much the picture would for ever be out of date. janice

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mary, are you in one of those states who would not reissue you a driver’s license with a new photo? I am in one, infirtunately. Would love to get a new DL, but have to wait until 2007. — 223/174.0/180 What do they do if you lose it? Here they have the old photos in their computer system and can issue a license with one of those. But it’s up to the individual which they prefer. Chris 262/134/ (130-140)

It’s the same here. I imagine most states are the same. After all, people lose their driver’s license every day. Beverly

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That part didn’t bother me, but it wasn’t fun going through airport security and being questioned every time about whether it was really my license, or having to discuss my weight loss with every store clerk who asked for a photo id. Chris 262/134/ (130-140)

I also had an issue getting my fishing license a few weeks ago because they use your DL info. The poor guy doing our licenses was trying to be very careful in pointing out that he thought my weight was way off and wondering what he should fill in. Since fishing licenses don’t have a picture (here) it was more important for it to be right. I should get a new one before I fly again in March, but I didn’t have any problems flying last year. Jenn

Response:

Mary, are you in one of those states who would not reissue you a driver’s license with a new photo? I am in one, infirtunately. Would love to get a new DL, but have to wait until 2007. — 223/174.0/180 What do they do if you lose it?

Here they have the old photos in their computer system and can issue a license with one of those. But it’s up to the individual which they prefer. Chris 262/134/ (130-140)

Response:

Mary, are you in one of those states who would not reissue you a driver’s license with a new photo? I am in one, infirtunately. Would love to get a new DL, but have to wait until 2007. I would have assumed it would be a great morale booster to have a reminder of how you used to look and all of the work you successfully put in to changing yourself.

Response:

Mary, are you in one of those states who would not reissue you a driver’s license with a new photo? I am in one, infirtunately. Would love to get a new DL, but have to wait until 2007.

That’s too bad. My DMV was happy to give me a new one. It cost $10, but was well worth doing. I decided it was time after the old one was questioned by a policeman who’d stopped me (expired inspection sticker). I think I need to get a new gym membership card done too. The other day I left it at the gym in the evening by mistake, and when I went back the next day I asked at the desk where they have all the "found" ones. I told the gym my name and he leafed through the cards, asked me the spelling, then asked my first name again. I finally realized he was looking right at my card and just didn’t think it was me because the picture was so different. And it was taken part way through my weight loss. Chris 262/134/ (130-140)

Response:

Mary, are you in one of those states who would not reissue you a driver’s license with a new photo? I am in one, infirtunately. Would love to get a new DL, but have to wait until 2007.

I would have assumed it would be a great morale booster to have a reminder of how you used to look and all of the work you successfully put in to changing yourself. — Steve Be A Healthy Vegan Or Vegetarian http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdom/Veg/healthyVeg.html Steve’s Home Page http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdom/ "The great American thought trap: It is not real unless it can be seen on television or bought in a shopping mall"

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What do they do if you lose it?

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I’m really aware of how different I look. I’ve gone from a size 16 to an 8 since last September, and I see myself in the mirror and hardly recognize myself, and am just tortured by the picture on my drivers license. I mean, how come I rationalized that to myself for so long? How could I not see it in my face, never mind the rest of me (I look like hell last summer in family pictures). Is it denial or what that lets us sort of pretend we aren’t the size we are? Now that I’m emerging from self created blimp-hell, I guess you are right, I’m noticing coworkers for example who are overweight – I’m much more aware of it than than I used to be. Not that they look bad, more that they look alarmingly unhealthy….plus I’m doing the mental calculation all the time now when I see other people…I’m thinking to myself….if I had 60 extra lbs on ME, then holy cow, so and so must have 80 or 100!! I was shocked when I realized my weight had crept as high as it had. I dunno, I kept thinking that I was 30 lb overweight or so and that wasn’t so bad, and was totally gobsmacked to realize it was really 60 (somehow, anything over 40 lbs seemed hugely alarming). It was really intimidating – it just seemed so daunting to have so much to loose…and then when it occurs to me that many of my friends and coworkers have that much and more, so no wonder they are "stuck" and can’t tackle it either. It certainly took me a long time to get to that mental space where I knew I HAD to do something – and I’m looking at other people and wondering when they will reach that point. My clerk did. She was approved for gastric bypass surgery which will happen in Feb. She’s REALLY in trouble with her weight – she’s at least 200 lb overweight at 5′ 3" and 51 years of age and its literally do or die time for her. Mary G.

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I have had this experience. Unfortunately, I’ve caught myself a couple of times looking at fat people and thinking things like ,"Oh my God! They must be so lazy!"

I wasn’t thinking in terms of judgement, just how they seem to me. When I was heavier some people didn’t look fat to me. As I shrink, these people are starting to look fat, yet they are the same size. — Steve Be A Healthy Vegan Or Vegetarian http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdom/Veg/healthyVeg.html Steve’s Home Page http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdom/ "The great American thought trap: It is not real unless it can be seen on television or bought in a shopping mall"

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Man, you really did lose a lot! Good job, dude.

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I have had this experience. Unfortunately, I’ve caught myself a couple of times looking at fat people and thinking things like ,"Oh my God! They must be so lazy!" But, then I remember how tough it was until I was finally able to break through and lose all weight. It’s not an easy thing to do, and we should all keep that in mind. Just because I was able to do it, it doesn’t mean that others can or will.

Response:

I’ve noticed that as I lose weight other people start to look different.

Yes, yes, yes. They look heavier and why do we feel we are the same? — Diva ***** "Fang Shoe" is the art of putting your foot in your mouth.

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I saved a favorite old sweatshirt. When I started to lose weight it was too tight to wear. Now I could use it for a sleeping bag if it was a little longer. I’m really surprised to look at size 4 jeans and not think they look like they’re for children. They look *normal* to

me now. When Mark starting sharing my home I was, and I suppose I still am, stunned at how small his clothes are. Moira, the Faerie Godmother Day eleven of my new WOL 136.8kg/133kg/90kg

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve noticed that as I lose weight other people start to look different. People who looked okay to me before start to look heavy. People who were thinner start to look closer to normal. Has anyone else had this experience? I had the same experience, yes. Fat people now look odd to me, whereas they looked quite normal when I was fat myself. Could be partly due to the rationalization of the effort to stay slim. I don’t think fat people look "odd" in any sense, but there are people whom I previously perceived as normal (i.e., a fair bit thinner than I was) whom I now perceive as overweight. What does strike me more is how, when I’m clothes shopping, clothes that used to look really small to me — the high end of the "normal" women’s size range, as opposed to the plus sizes I wore — now look huge . And the size 6s that I wear look bigger than those 16s used to. Chris 262/134/ (130-140)

Isn’t it odd though, whatever dress size you are, the shops never have any of them? I think it’s a conspiracy! ) Rachael 176/133/124

Response:

What does strike me more is how, when I’m clothes shopping, clothes that used to look really small to me — the high end of the "normal" women’s size range, as opposed to the plus sizes I wore — now look huge . And the size 6s that I wear look bigger than those 16s used to.

Response:

Yes, losing weight can often make one judgemental of others. I try not to do that but sometimes you can’t help but think "How can you eat a triple cheeseburger, super size fries and drink and then complain about being overweight?" And the opposite of what you say is true too: people who are overweight, think you are too skinny, when oftentimes technically you are still slightly overweight. I have had ppl try to put me down simply because I lost weight. Funny that back in the day the opposite was true It just shows that how society has changed in the last 10 years about being overweight or obese. One point of time it was considered embarrasing almost, but now its no big deal. Cygnus The Bringer of Balance

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In a somewhat different way, yes. I frequently hear comments that I am thin yet I am at least 20 pounds overfat.

On Lyle McDoucheBag’s Ketogenic Diet?

Response:

forget the personals for the moment…..

admin — Tue, 12 Nov 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

> I don’t think it would have worked well. I have a pretty clear understanding of > my limitations, and that was obviously way over the line at this point. Now I > just hope feeling like shit over this doesn’t set me back in my social > endeavors at work. The whole competing with other guys thing really makes me > feel shitty. Usually, I just don’t feel I can compete……looks-wise, social > status-wise, money-wise, I lose on all counts. Even when I see a girl with a > guy, and I’m clearly better looking than the guy, I just assume it’s because he > has a lot more money than me, and has more social status.

Like the animal kingdom, there are thousands of men to compete with over the woman and only the best survive, the rest are on the sidelines rejected by women doomed to be a genetic deadend on the family tree.

Response:

>AWW! >Trance, I’m sorry >That sucks. You would have done a good job.

Maybe another time, if I can get some support for it.

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>Isn’t there some way you can say "fuck it" to this >idea of *impressing* women? It’s keeping you from meeting people who >don’t care where you shop or what kind of car you drive.

I don’t know, LM……..I’ve tried going to the places where people are kind of anti-materialist…..believe it or not we *do* have a couple places like that. I like their music, but I actually feel like I fit in even less at those places. You know what I need to do? I need to meet the kind of girl who doesn’t go out clubbing and partying, because she gets up at 6:30AM to go jogging. I need to start entering road races on a regular basis, and make attempts to meet some of the women there. Running only 2-3 5Ks a year and not talking to anyone while I’m there isn’t much of an effort. The thing is, I’m most afraid to approach the kinds of women I’d like the most. I look at a fit girl out on a bike, or out jogging or whatever, and I figure she probably thinks she’s too hot for me or something……even though I probably work just as hard at staying fit as she does. I always seem to forget that I’ve put in 9 straight years at the gym; I easily revert back to being the awkward, gawky 14 year old when I’m around women I’m attracted to.

Response:

….I have that speed dating thing in less than 48 hours. Am I afraid? I sure am. I’m trying to think of what I might say, and I’m drawing blanks. I’ve got 25 women…..3 minutes each. Any general conversational gameplans I might use? This may seem like I’m asking for the obvious, but when I’m nervous the obvious doesn’t necessarily come easily. You get a coupon for a drink…..but I’m thinking no alcohol, coffee instead. I want to be energetic, excited, and focused. Plus, I notice that when I’ve had coffee, and I’m being social, I get this nice flushed, kinda light-headed pins-and-needles feeling.

Response:

Trance909 wrote in message

news:20021112015445.10905.00000200@mb-fh.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> ….I have that speed dating thing in less than 48 hours. Am I afraid? I sure > am. I’m trying to think of what I might say, and I’m drawing blanks. > I’ve got 25 women…..3 minutes each. Any general conversational gameplans I > might use? This may seem like I’m asking for the obvious, but when I’m nervous > the obvious doesn’t necessarily come easily. > You get a coupon for a drink…..but I’m thinking no alcohol, coffee instead. I > want to be energetic, excited, and focused. Plus, I notice that when I’ve had > coffee, and I’m being social, I get this nice flushed, kinda light-headed > pins-and-needles feeling.

Well, for 3 minutes, you’d better get to the point quick.

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<….I have that speed dating thing in less than 48 hours.> What is this?

Response:

** BamaPhoenix2001 ** > What is this?

"[...] one of those speed-dating things where you talk to 25 different women for 3 minutes each." http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1e06b466.0210291257.3a185642%40p…. google.com

Response:

trance…@aol.com (Trance909) wrote: > ….I have that speed dating thing in less than 48 hours. Am I afraid? I sure > am. I’m trying to think of what I might say, and I’m drawing blanks. > I’ve got 25 women…..3 minutes each. Any general conversational gameplans I > might use? This may seem like I’m asking for the obvious, but when I’m nervous > the obvious doesn’t necessarily come easily.

I was actually thinking about this too, if I decide to do the one in my hometown (sometime in December). You probably ought to have several questions prepared to ask, and not necessarily the same questions to each woman. For myself, I was thinking: What do you for a living? What are some of your interests/hobbies? What kinds of music/movies do you like? What do you read? Assuming I’m physically attracted to the woman (which I would pretty much know instantaneously), the next thing I’d want to find out is what’s in her brain. If she has stupid music tastes or doesn’t read or doesn’t have any of the same interests that I have, I can easily scratch her off the list. Three minutes doesn’t allow you to get much more than "just the facts, ma’am." I wouldn’t bank on any clever conversational gameplans. But then, given my experience with women, maybe you shouldn’t be paying any attention to me. > You get a coupon for a drink…..but I’m thinking no alcohol, coffee instead.

Hmmm, I personally would be more relaxed with at least one beer. Not more than that, though.

Response:

>Well, for 3 minutes, you’d better get to the point quick.

I’m sitting here this morning and I still can’t believe I signed up for this. I tried to get a good amount of sleep…….and I did get to sleep rather early but I still feel tired. Shit, this isn’t gonna work very well. Wish someone could go with me……..because I’m going to have a hard time sauntering in there alone this evening.

Response:

On Wed 13 Nov 2002 06:12:48a, Trance909 knelt before Her Imperial Highness and in a most grave and reverent tone said: >>Well, for 3 minutes, you’d better get to the point quick. > I’m sitting here this morning and I still can’t believe I signed up > for this. I tried to get a good amount of sleep…….and I did get to > sleep rather early but I still feel tired. Shit, this isn’t gonna work > very well. Wish someone could go with me……..because I’m going to > have a hard time sauntering in there alone this evening.

Aw, you can do it. Forget you’re trying to "meet" anyone, just walk in and try to have fun talking to each one of the ladies. They’re scared too, and they’re probably not even shy. Go and help them feel at ease, get to know them in your little 3 minute period. Then come home and think about how many girls you talked to that day and what great practice that was. I promise, the women are at home thinking "I can’t believe I signed up for this", only they’re also obsessing over what shoes to wear. :)

Response:

>Aw, you can do it.

I obviously can’t. I chickened out. I sat in the parking lot for 30 minutes and couldn’t bring myself to walk in the door. I didn’t even get a chance to worry about what I was going to say, because I was worried about getting myself in the door in the first place. I watched the men and women go into the place discreetly, from behind my steering wheel. The women……from what I could see, they were basically average Latin women…….you wouldn’t consider them gorgeous, but at the same time I wouldn’t consider them unattractive either…….I doubt I would have matched up with any of them but it would have been good practice regardless. I suck The men………this was actually part of what scared me…….from what I saw of the men, I really felt small and inadequate. The men seemed a lot better looking than the women. They were all at LEAST as tall as me (5′11") and most were taller. They were all in shape……at least as good a shape as me, and some even more muscular. Furthermore, they all seemed to drive more impressive cars than my little Civic……they all probably make more money than me. I tried dressing my best, got a haircut, put my best pair of shoes on……..but I still felt very intimidated by the guys I saw going in there. So Ness, here it is……..if I really thought I was that good-looking, I would have been able to walk in there confidently, without a problem. I obviously could not do that…….so it doesn’t really matter what I said in some Googled post…..the weight of the real world evidence indicates otherwise. Captain Moron, eat your heart out (again)

Response:

On Wed 13 Nov 2002 08:40:54p, Trance909 knelt before Her Imperial Highness and in a most grave and reverent tone said: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Aw, you can do it. > I obviously can’t. > I chickened out. > I sat in the parking lot for 30 minutes and couldn’t bring myself to > walk in the door. I didn’t even get a chance to worry about what I was > going to say, because I was worried about getting myself in the door > in the first place. > I watched the men and women go into the place discreetly, from behind > my steering wheel. The women……from what I could see, they were > basically average Latin women…….you wouldn’t consider them > gorgeous, but at the same time I wouldn’t consider them unattractive > either…….I doubt I would have matched up with any of them but it > would have been good practice regardless. I suck > The men………this was actually part of what scared me…….from > what I saw of the men, I really felt small and inadequate. The men > seemed a lot better looking than the women. They were all at LEAST as > tall as me (5′11") and most were taller. They were all in > shape……at least as good a shape as me, and some even more > muscular. Furthermore, they all seemed to drive more impressive cars > than my little Civic……they all probably make more money than me. I > tried dressing my best, got a haircut, put my best pair of shoes > on……..but I still felt very intimidated by the guys I saw going in > there. > So Ness, here it is……..if I really thought I was that > good-looking, I would have been able to walk in there confidently, > without a problem. I obviously could not do that…….so it doesn’t > really matter what I said in some Googled post…..the weight of the > real world evidence indicates otherwise. > Captain Moron, eat your heart out (again)

AWW! Trance, I’m sorry That sucks. You would have done a good job.

Response:

"Trance909" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:20021113214054.14863.00000008@mb-cd.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Aw, you can do it. > I obviously can’t. > I chickened out. > I sat in the parking lot for 30 minutes and couldn’t bring myself to walk in > the door. I didn’t even get a chance to worry about what I was going to say, > because I was worried about getting myself in the door in the first place. > I watched the men and women go into the place discreetly, from behind my > steering wheel. The women……from what I could see, they were basically > average Latin women…….you wouldn’t consider them gorgeous, but at the same > time I wouldn’t consider them unattractive either…….I doubt I would have > matched up with any of them but it would have been good practice regardless. I > suck > The men………this was actually part of what scared me…….from what I saw > of the men, I really felt small and inadequate. The men seemed a lot better > looking than the women. They were all at LEAST as tall as me (5′11") and most > were taller. They were all in shape……at least as good a shape as me, and > some even more muscular. Furthermore, they all seemed to drive more impressive > cars than my little Civic……they all probably make more money than me. I > tried dressing my best, got a haircut, put my best pair of shoes on……..but > I still felt very intimidated by the guys I saw going in there. > So Ness, here it is……..if I really thought I was that good-looking, I would > have been able to walk in there confidently, without a problem. I obviously > could not do that…….so it doesn’t really matter what I said in some Googled > post…..the weight of the real world evidence indicates otherwise. > Captain Moron, eat your heart out (again)

{{{{{{{{{Trance}}}}}}}}} You might try again with a buddy next time. Safety in numbers and all that. You’re just not ready right now, and that’s no crime. When you’re ready, you’ll do it. *whispers* and yes, you are a good-looking guy, no BS

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meg wrote: > I promise, the women are at home thinking "I can’t believe I signed up for > this", only they’re also obsessing over what shoes to wear. :)

Nope. They’re thinking, "please don’t let them all be a bunch of losers".

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"Wry Bread" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:ut6vfrj9sflj31@corp.supernews.com… > meg wrote: > > I promise, the women are at home thinking "I can’t believe I signed up for > > this", only they’re also obsessing over what shoes to wear. :) > Nope. They’re thinking, "please don’t let them all be a bunch of losers".

Well, that too. Wouldn’t you?

Response:

** Trance ** > So Ness, here it is……..if I really thought I was that good-looking, I would > have been able to walk in there confidently, without a problem.

So is being or not being good-looking all there was to it? What about all those worries you had before about what to say, ask, etc? You’ve been here long enough to see how people use their supposed lack of good looks as a safety net to fall back on. If you tell yourself it’s all about looks which you believe you don’t have and are destined to be without (bar cosmetic surgery), you’re just digging a hole for yourself that has a big banner across the walls saying "IT’S POINTLESS TO TRY". And you’ve seen how well that works out for people here. Well, it’s not about your physical appearance – we’ve seen your picture, and even if pictures don’t say everything about someone’s looks, yours is enough to indicate that that’s not where the problem lies. I’m sorry last night didn’t work out; this means though that an event so public as that is something you’re not ready for, and it’d probably be easier if you went ahead with trying to meet women one-on-one rather than a bunch of them in one night for a few minutes only. That, I believe, would be difficult for even a confident person, let alone a shy introvert. The good thing is though that you managed to push yourself enough to make it quite close to going through with it.

Response:

>> I promise, the women are at home thinking "I can’t believe I signed up for >> this", only they’re also obsessing over what shoes to wear. :) >Nope. They’re thinking, "please don’t let them all be a bunch of losers".

Yeah, I think Wry is right on this one. And they weren’t…..at least it seemed that they weren’t – they were all tall, well-dressed, drove decent cars, and walked in there like they were hot shit. I would have suffered by comparison. It’s ridiculous that they were all so tall……I’ve never seen that before in this town, I’m not used to feeling like the shortest guy around. They were beefier, too – I’m just a skinny little drink of water. I don’t think it would have worked well. I have a pretty clear understanding of my limitations, and that was obviously way over the line at this point. Now I just hope feeling like shit over this doesn’t set me back in my social endeavors at work. The whole competing with other guys thing really makes me feel shitty. Usually, I just don’t feel I can compete……looks-wise, social status-wise, money-wise, I lose on all counts. Even when I see a girl with a guy, and I’m clearly better looking than the guy, I just assume it’s because he has a lot more money than me, and has more social status.

Response:

>So is being or not being good-looking all there was to it? What about all >those worries you had before about what to say, ask, etc?

I wasn’t even worried about what to say, because I couldn’t even get in the door. And in this case, yes, seeing all those guys made me think I was not good looking enough….I think that if all the guys I saw walking in there were shorter, overweight, and generally dorky looking, I might have been able to go through with it. I did get out of the car and kinda amble toward the place, but I felt about 4 feet tall, and yes, I felt *ugly*. I know how some here have used that as a convenient fall back, but when you’re too ashamed to even show your face, that means you’re feeling pretty ugly.

Response:

** Trance ** > I know how some here have used that as a convenient fall back, > but when you’re too ashamed to even show your face, that means > you’re feeling pretty ugly.

Well, you’re not ugly. So you need to figure out a way to get over feeling like you are, or at least not to let it affect your choices so much. (Yes, I know this isn’t easy.)

Response:

HCBPBD wrote: > > Nope. They’re thinking, "please don’t let them all be a bunch of losers". > Well, that too. > Wouldn’t you?

If any of them wanted to give me a chance, I’d be happy. If one of them really liked me, I’d be ecstatic. If one of them loved me, I’d be someone else. : P.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -trance…@aol.com (Trance909) wrote in message … > >> I promise, the women are at home thinking "I can’t believe I signed up for > >> this", only they’re also obsessing over what shoes to wear. :) > >Nope. They’re thinking, "please don’t let them all be a bunch of losers". > Yeah, I think Wry is right on this one. And they weren’t…..at least it seemed > that they weren’t – they were all tall, well-dressed, drove decent cars, and > walked in there like they were hot shit. I would have suffered by comparison. > It’s ridiculous that they were all so tall……I’ve never seen that before in > this town, I’m not used to feeling like the shortest guy around. They were > beefier, too – I’m just a skinny little drink of water. > I don’t think it would have worked well. I have a pretty clear understanding of > my limitations, and that was obviously way over the line at this point. Now I > just hope feeling like shit over this doesn’t set me back in my social > endeavors at work. The whole competing with other guys thing really makes me > feel shitty. Usually, I just don’t feel I can compete……looks-wise, social > status-wise, money-wise, I lose on all counts. Even when I see a girl with a > guy, and I’m clearly better looking than the guy, I just assume it’s because he > has a lot more money than me, and has more social status.

Trance, you keep insisting that looks/money/social status matter to women, and then you complain that they’re all shallow. Yet you keep playing into it by dressing for success or whatever. You seem sure of yourself in other ways; for example, you’ve explained your preference for Hondas (the same preference about a gazillion other people have) in terms that aren’t shallow at all — good gas mileage, reasonable price… yet now you’re saying it’s not good enough. But you *do* believe it *is* good enough — you’ve said as much! So why the disconnect? It’s as though you’re embarrased about the things you feel strongly about. Isn’t there some way you can say "fuck it" to this idea of *impressing* women? It’s keeping you from meeting people who don’t care where you shop or what kind of car you drive. Maybe you don’t really want to meet those people anyway, though, and that’s why you keep going for the status-seekers? Dunno, just trying to figure you out I’m sorry it didn’t work out like you’d hoped it would. lm

Response:

Looking for running clubs in fremont/newark area or in peninsula

admin — Sun, 25 Aug 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I am looking for running clubs in Fremont/Newark areas or peninsula in CA. I am specially looking for running clubs with more of a competitive attitude but open to all levels of running. Also where are good and safe(for women specially) running trails around Fremont/Newark? Thanks.

Response:

Also where are good and safe(for women specially) running trails around Fremont/Newark?

List of trails in SF Bay area: http://home.pacbell.net/leewaysf/therun.html The Sawyer camp trail is the best trail in peninsula. It’s a paved multi-use trail that spans 6 miles one way. It’s quite safe for women too. I have run there at different times of the day and have seen many women running/walking/jogging. – Satish

Response:

Heart

admin — Thu, 23 May 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Began running in 1968 or so because I felt like it. For fun and as a welcome complement to a mostly sedentary workday. Then read Cooper’s Aerobics and found out there were others who ran and other reasons to do so. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to know just for a research paper, how many of you run just for health. Not because of enjoyment but because you don’t want the risk of heart disease. If you could just respond to this message that would be great! For me, #1 – appearance; #2 – health; #3 – enjoyment. Shallow? – Phil Caron

Response:

No, it was the vacant expression.

Response:

No, it was the vacant expression.

At least the "vacant" part is only an expression in this case, in yours the Dr’s uses it to describe the X ray they took of your skull. "Make no mistake about it! Without humor, freedom would drive you insane." Bill I am so cool, that sheep count ME before they go to sleep. http://hometown.aol.com/mrrobottow/

Response:

I run for health If only to be "in shape" when my MI comes knocking. Im afraid Genetics is going to win. db

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to know just for a research paper, how many of you run just for health. Not because of enjoyment but because you don’t want the risk of heart disease. If you could just respond to this message that would be great!

Response:

Most younger guys start running to get strong & sport; Most younger women start running to improve appearance & lose weight;

So what is your take on why older guys and gals start running? You didn’t specify. Cardivascular disease is more of a worry for middle age starters. Even so, running or other aerobic exercise only cuts the risk in half. Heredity, eating, stress, and maybe even infection causes the other half. There are several scentific study papers on the web under the Cooper Institute.

For myself, I turned to running in my mid 30’s to get fit and lose weight. I have worked my way from 5Km to a full marathon. Now I am considering a sprint triathalon. I have lots of other reasons for running though. - Fresh air and pleasant scenery - being part of a group - sense of accomplishment - stress relief - time to think things through Add your favorite to the list…

Response:

Been running on and off for 25 years. Definitely in the middle part of life. Run more consistently now: . do it for health reasons. . great way to detach from stress of life. . great way to spend time with my 2 year old (she tags along in the stroller). . good to feel healthy, sleep well at night, have a good constitution. –mikeb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I started running again in late middle age. I continue to do it now for enjoyment, though original motivation was to lose weight. That of course has some (albeit small) relationship to heart disease. I want to know just for a research paper, how many of you run just for health. Not because of enjoyment but because you don’t want the risk of heart disease. If you could just respond to this message that would be great! — "There’s nary an animal alive that can outrun a greased Scotsman." Groundskeeper Willy, The Simpsons Regards, Dave

Response:

I want to know just for a research paper, how many of you run just for health. Not because of enjoyment but because you don’t want the risk of heart disease. If you could just respond to this message that would be great!

For me, #1 – appearance; #2 – health; #3 – enjoyment. Shallow? – Phil Caron

Response:

Just a pity that, in your case, running may have prolonged your life.

If it serves to annoy you, then its purpose is further enhanced. K

Response:

Are you one of the Robot babes?

Response:

Are you one of the Robot babes?

Was it her walk that gave her away? "Make no mistake about it! Without humor, freedom would drive you insane." Bill I am so cool, that sheep count ME before they go to sleep. http://hometown.aol.com/mrrobottow/

Response:

how many of you run just for health. Not because of enjoyment but because you don’t want the risk of heart disease. If you could just respond to this message that would be great!

I run for health, but learned to enjoy it. Tough question. "Make no mistake about it! Without humor, freedom would drive you insane." Bill I am so cool, that sheep count ME before they go to sleep. http://hometown.aol.com/mrrobottow/

Response:

Count me out. I run for the fun of it. Yeah, it controls my diabetes and helps reduce the risk of heart disease. But if I didn’t like running, I’d find something else to do. I hope anyone else would, too. Why live longer if you’re going to be miserable? Rob

Response:

I think you have to enjoy what you are doing. I run, bike, swim and lift for my health and I enjoy all those activities. Hope this helps. Cheers, Sanjay

Response:

Well I run for health but also because I enjoy it. Heart disease figures low on my list of health reasons; falling in behind managing my Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, clearing 20 years of nicotine from my system and avoiding the osteoperosis that every woman in the generation of my family above seems to have … all of which are necessary but not sufficient reasons to run! My choice of exercise is dictated by pleasure, not prevention. Kay

Response:

Just a pity that, in your case, running may have prolonged your life.

Response:

Most younger guys start running to get strong & sport; Most younger women start running to improve appearance & lose weight; Cardivascular disease is more of a worry for middle age starters. Even so, running or other aerobic exercise only cuts the risk in half. Heredity, eating, stress, and maybe even infection causes the other half. There are several scentific study papers on the web under the Cooper Institute.

Response:

I started running again in late middle age. I continue to do it now for enjoyment, though original motivation was to lose weight. That of course has some (albeit small) relationship to heart disease. I want to know just for a research paper, how many of you run just for health. Not because of enjoyment but because you don’t want the risk of heart disease. If you could just respond to this message that would be great!

– "There’s nary an animal alive that can outrun a greased Scotsman." Groundskeeper Willy, The Simpsons Regards, Dave

Response:

Where are all the young folks?

admin — Mon, 10 Dec 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Scary stats- 50% of all Americans ore overweight to some degree.. Another scary thought is the 1/2 the world is starving to death and 1/2 the world is eating themselves to death.. Junk food is cheap! Hey, 3.99 for a Big Extra meal (1500 calories or so) or 13.00 per pound for skinless boneless chicken breasts at the grocery store. (canadian dollars) Plus the time it takes to make it. There has been talk of taxing fatty foods, but that brings up a whole other argument. Can you tax whole milk because it is high in fat? Kids need more fat than adults, but we certainly all can live without a "little McDonalds"in all of us.. My parents were good role models- Mom is pretty slim and Dad swam master’s for many years. Now he runs and does the stepper- not bad for a 60 year old. BUT, I was overweight, still am, but I am getting there despite all of the good influence. Even when I was fat, I still played soccer. My inner thinner self made me try fad diets until I woke up one day and decided to run again. I am now 31 and am trying to undo years of bad eating. I think it really appeals to me because it gives me time alone to *not* think, or think if I want. 30-40 year olds are probably pretty stressed, and running is a good way to de-stress. Is for me anyway.. Maybe some of us just get really good at it and can finally win against younger guys- I think I have heard that marathon runners are not generally in their 20s.. I also have way more self disipline than I did when I was 20. jenn

Response:

Although runnng had a media popularity boom in the 1970s, as far as I can tell from USA sports marketing studies, the overall participation has remained constant in the past 25 years at about 3-4% of the US population. And marathon completions have tripled over the past 20 years according to TAC. Most other sports have had booms and busts in this period.

Response:

What Jenn wrote makes perfect sense to me (see below), but she’s really only got one end of the story. Right now, I’m a 19 year old college junior. I have yet to experience this "wild monkey sex", but I would like to know where to get some. In college, all the wild monkey sex is happening to the guys who aren’t training 20 hours a week. My roommate, for example… Me: Hey look! I have 5% body fat, smooth legs and 2 hours of endurance is an easy day. Chick: Wow! Let’s hop in the sack for some "wild monkey sex" Yeah, right… more like… Roommate: Hi, I watched Alex race once, it looks hard… anyway, I have 23 body piercing, only 10 of them are above my neck…. Chick: You. Me. Here. Now. (loud animal noises) No, I am not bitter… I am kidding. I wrote this at 2:30 AM because I was too busy making love like a crazed weasel (again, not bitter… kidding) The point that I am trying to make is that young guys have no reason to run. We can sit around, watch TV, drink beer, eat 12 hot dogs a day and still have ripped abs. Cheers! Alex www.geocities.com/milktrout – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This answers the question of the original question of the thread: Why are there so many old dudes placing real well in the races? Answer: Compensation. To illustrate. Guy: Hey look! I’m 40 and fat! Chick: Cool. Let’s hop in the sack for some wild monkey sex. This conversation will never exist. At 40, the search begins to replace the testosterone and revisit the debauchery of youth (which also didn’t exist), or perhaps recreate those athletic accomplish of youth (which, yes, you guessed it, didn’t exist.) What to do? Buy red convertible (too expensive). Buy young blonde (too expensive and don’t forget that testosterone thing). Take up running. Guy: Hey look! I’m 40, thin and run the same times as those teenagers. Chick: Cool. Why? Guy: Er…to prove I’m as good as I was 20 years ago? Oh! Did I mention that I’ve worked for 20 years and have a lot more money than those teenagers. Want some? Chick: Cool. Let’s hop in the sack for some wild monkey sex. Jennifer

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As an "American Kid" I’d like to comment. I’m a 17 year-old high school junior, and more and more as I continue my education, I notice that less and less are we (students) educated about how important it is to exercise & eat healthy. I for one, take my own lunch to school because all we are offered is fast food or anything else fried in lard. Almost all of my close friends are athletes, but most of my classmates are not. They do stay home and play video games rather than say, going for a run. A sad side note is the fact that Americas’ youth is getting fatter, but my male counterparts in high school still like a tall, pretty, blond, size 0 girlfriend. I’m not bashing guys, don’t get me wrong. But the propaganda that we are fed through television is that pretty girls come in one size (^), but are still able to eat junk food and not exercise. That makes a hard act to follow from a brunette, size 5. If you want to see "American Kids Losing Weight," in the headlines anytime soon, somebody needs to educate the youth of America. -Ashley

Wow, a size 5 female. I’d like to see that. Around here it’s either 12+ or, like you said Ashley, size 0-2. Personally these "professional models" are ugly in my eyes because they are so skinny and anorexic looking. Guess it’s the Italian blood in me that like to see some meat on my women (size 5-10 is nice). Am I skinny? Not the least, but given my size/weight, I have a blood pressure of 118/70 and resting heart rate of 50-58 BPM (I’m 6′1", 250#). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "American Kids Are Getting Fatter (AP) – American children are getting fatter at an alarming rate, with the percentage of significantly overweight black and Hispanic youngsters more than doubling over 12 years and climbing 50 percent among whites, … By 1998 … 22 percent … black children … 22 percent of Hispanic youngsters and 12 percent of whites …" And it goes on to explain that the prior doubling in incidence (which covers the now 20-somethings) took over 30 years to happen and that the fattening is basically (A) too much TV/computer/video games, and (B) too much fat food … er I mean … fast food.

Agreed here. Every corner here either has a fast food joint or a pharmacy. It’s no wonder that kids are getting fat. Add to that that there is very few sidewalks with these new subdivisions being built. This makes people not want to walk on the street. GOt to love a country that cares more about what’s on TV than what’s on thier plate. – Steve B

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here are the top 15 results for a 5 mile race this past weekend on Long Island (NY). [...] 7 of the top 10 was 40+! 2 of the top 10 was under 30! And, Tuesday December 11, 2001 on www.yahoo.com: "American Kids Are Getting Fatter (AP) – American children are getting fatter at an alarming rate, with the percentage of significantly overweight black and Hispanic youngsters more than doubling over 12 years and climbing 50 percent among whites, … By 1998 … 22 percent … black children … 22 percent of Hispanic youngsters and 12 percent of whites …" And it goes on to explain that the prior doubling in incidence (which covers the now 20-somethings) took over 30 years to happen and that the fattening is basically (A) too much TV/computer/video games, and (B) too much fat food … er I mean … fast food. There’s half your answer.

I’d like to add the Michigan has the most obese people in the Union. THis is not one statistics I enjoy seeing. – Steve B

Response:

Guy: Hey look! I’m 40, thin and run the same times as those teenagers. Chick: Cool. Why? Guy: Er…to prove I’m as good as I was 20 years ago? Oh! Did I mention that I’ve worked for 20 years and have a lot more money than those teenagers. Want some? Chick: Cool. Let’s hop in the sack for some wild monkey sex.

Are you disparaging monkeys? You’ll hear from their counsel. Have you seen monkey sex? National Geographic TV special fare, not impressive. — Josh Steinberg

Response:

Here are the top 15 results for a 5 mile race this past weekend on Long Island (NY). [...] 7 of the top 10 was 40+! 2 of the top 10 was under 30!

And, Tuesday December 11, 2001 on www.yahoo.com: "American Kids Are Getting Fatter (AP) – American children are getting fatter at an alarming rate, with the percentage of significantly overweight black and Hispanic youngsters more than doubling over 12 years and climbing 50 percent among whites, … By 1998 … 22 percent … black children … 22 percent of Hispanic youngsters and 12 percent of whites …" And it goes on to explain that the prior doubling in incidence (which covers the now 20-somethings) took over 30 years to happen and that the fattening is basically (A) too much TV/computer/video games, and (B) too much fat food … er I mean … fast food. There’s half your answer.

Response:

As an "American Kid" I’d like to comment. I’m a 17 year-old high school junior, and more and more as I continue my education, I notice that less and less are we (students) educated about how important it is to exercise & eat healthy. I for one, take my own lunch to school because all we are offered is fast food or anything else fried in lard. Almost all of my close friends are athletes, but most of my classmates are not. They do stay home and play video games rather than say, going for a run. A sad side note is the fact that Americas’ youth is getting fatter, but my male counterparts in high school still like a tall, pretty, blond, size 0 girlfriend. I’m not bashing guys, don’t get me wrong. But the propaganda that we are fed through television is that pretty girls come in one size (^), but are still able to eat junk food and not exercise. That makes a hard act to follow from a brunette, size 5. If you want to see "American Kids Losing Weight," in the headlines anytime soon, somebody needs to educate the youth of America. -Ashley – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "American Kids Are Getting Fatter (AP) – American children are getting fatter at an alarming rate, with the percentage of significantly overweight black and Hispanic youngsters more than doubling over 12 years and climbing 50 percent among whites, … By 1998 … 22 percent … black children … 22 percent of Hispanic youngsters and 12 percent of whites …" And it goes on to explain that the prior doubling in incidence (which covers the now 20-somethings) took over 30 years to happen and that the fattening is basically (A) too much TV/computer/video games, and (B) too much fat food … er I mean … fast food.

Response:

The good young guys are in either in college and coming off a hard cross season or they have just finished a hard season of fall running and taking a break. If you look at the results, the top two finishers were under 30. Overall this doesn’t appear to be that competitive of a race if the winner was 27:03. Maybe there was another race that attracted the better runners somewhere else. -jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Here are the top 15 results for a 5 mile race this past weekend on Long Island (NY). Pl. Age Time 1 27 27:03 2 19 3 44 4 48 5 36 6 52 7 46 8 45 9 46 10 44 11 52 12 32 13 32 14 35 15 35 28:57 7 of the top 10 was 40+! 2 of the top 10 was under 30! If you were in your 40’s and slower than 30 minutes you didn’t get any hardware. In fact most of the 20’s runners would have been shut out of the 40’s age group places. Maybe there should be reverse age grading. With those in the 30’s getting a time bonus over those in the 40’s. Andy

Response:

Hi, Jenn e fir, Thanks! Http://www.ucop.edu/sciencetoday/pages/archive/transcripts/1997/sci475.html#B Under the category of "we get paid for writing this stuff?!" Scientists have concluded that men over 40 get fat!

Now, if they could only discover we get dumber (or at least don’t think that we know as much as we used to). Maybe that’s a testosterone thing (see below). Furthermore, you should run more to keep from getting fat. But read closer. Even athletic old guys are getting fat, and it’s not because they’re eating more. It’s because the testosterone’s dropping–nature’s way of saying "and you thought baldness was funny?"

Hey! "baldness is funny"??? Actually, I have a theory that male baldness is not a loss of hair but a migration of hair southward due to prolonged exposure to gravity. If we live long enough, we’ll have hobbit feet. Should make running interesting. The testosterone thing is pretty interesting. There have been a few studies that suggest the "fear of injury" syndrome in older males may be due to a reduction in testosterone. This would imply (my read) that, in this scenario omitting the other reasons for running, older guys are either trying to regain the recklessness of the past (real or imagined) or trying to run fast but are held back by the lack testosterone (ignoring the physical aging issues like lack of tissue elasticity, decreased tissue regeneration ability, increased hard tissue accumulation, the collection long-term injuries to cardio and repiratory systems, etc. many due to a decrease in testosterone – maybe). Here are a few information sources. I left out anything from a company that makes money off of their research. Distance running (over 30 miles a week) produces fewer male offspring by lowering testosterone http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0076.htm Flawed study about exercise reducing testosterone http://www.e-caps.com/oncall/enews07.cfm#ARTICLE5 Overtraining reduces testosterone http://extremesp.com/tresearch/overtrain.html Running increases levels of testosterone http://lifelong.learningnetwork.com/Health_Fitness/Step_By_Step/Runni… g_intro1.htm Male equivelant to menopause due to falling testosterone levels (newspaper article) http://www.lef.org/newsarchive/aging/2001/03/09/CINP/0000-3605-KEYWOR… .html Testosterone levels in women and men during running (journal article) http://www.keratin.com/ac/baldnessbiology/baldnesscauses/511baldnessc… rence.shtml News Flash: Sex is good for the production of testosterone (no science here but some cute quotes) http://www.peak.sfu.ca/the-peak/2001-1/issue6/sp-sexercise.html Interview with the author of The Andropause Mystery – cute but not scientific Weight gain in men is inevitable – women, too but for different reasons http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/spare-tire.html Drop in testosterone may lead to Altheimer’s (this isn’t directly related to running but …) http://www.am-i-pregnant.com/aip.data/article/show/further/0/140956.s… Testosterone and competition in men and women http://cogprints.soton.ac.uk/documents/disk0/00/00/06/30/cog00000630-… tml Curious article about testosterone and crime http://faculty.ncwc.edu/toconnor/301/301lect05.htm Sports injuries and the agin athlete http://www.thedoctorwillseeyounow.com/articles/senior_living/oldrath_9/ Debunking boron and testosterone http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/09/19/02.html Now shall we discuss post-menopausal women and running? This answers the question of the original question of the thread: Why are there so many old dudes placing real well in the races? Answer: Compensation. To illustrate. Guy: Hey look! I’m 40 and fat! Chick: Cool. Let’s hop in the sack for some wild monkey sex. This conversation will never exist.

Damn, are you saying that line was never supposed to work? I thought it was my personality. Are you saying that men over 40 never get laid so they might as well run? At 40, the search begins to replace the testosterone and revisit the debauchery of youth (which also didn’t exist), or perhaps recreate those athletic accomplish of youth (which, yes, you guessed it, didn’t exist.) What to do? Buy red convertible (too expensive). Buy young blonde (too expensive and don’t forget that testosterone thing). Take up running.

Oh, you are saying that (see above). Guy: Hey look! I’m 40, thin and run the same times as those teenagers. Chick: Cool. Why? Guy: Er…to prove I’m as good as I was 20 years ago? Oh! Did I mention that I’ve worked for 20 years and have a lot more money than those teenagers. Want some? Chick: Cool. Let’s hop in the sack for some wild monkey sex.

Hmm, slow down, I’m taking notes. m-o-n-k-e-y- s-e-x. Got it. Thanks, Jenn e fir, Layne

Response:

Guy: Hey look! I’m 40 and fat! Chick: Cool. Let’s hop in the sack for some wild monkey sex.

Hmmmmm. What exactly is monkey sex? — Brian Wakem

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Under the category of "we get paid for writing this stuff?!" Scientists have concluded that men over 40 get fat! Furthermore, you should run more to keep from getting fat. But read closer. Even athletic old guys are getting fat, and it’s not because they’re eating more. It’s because the testosterone’s dropping–nature’s way of saying "and you thought baldness was funny?" This answers the question of the original question of the thread: Why are there so many old dudes placing real well in the races? Answer: Compensation. To illustrate. Guy: Hey look! I’m 40 and fat! Chick: Cool. Let’s hop in the sack for some wild monkey sex. This conversation will never exist.

What!? You mean, never ever? I suppose now you’re going to tell me there is no Santa. Guy: Hey look! I’m 40, thin and run the same times as those teenagers. Chick: Cool. Why? Guy: Er…to prove I’m as good as I was 20 years ago? Oh! Did I mention that I’ve worked for 20 years and have a lot more money than those teenagers. Want some? Chick: Cool. Let’s hop in the sack for some wild monkey sex.

Oh, that is wonderful news. Being 42, slow and dirt poor I suppose I should stop looking for wild monkeys. Damn this cruelty! Leo

Response:

<< A few of those 24-30 year old runners will start running again when they look at the scales …or when they look at their profile in a mirror. This applies equally to those in their 40’s. I should know, because it happened to me! Chuck

Response:

The 18-23 year old runners are in college. The 24-30 year old runners have stopped running and they are becoming overweight. A few of those 24-30 year old runners will start running again when they look at the scales. troy, You did a great job at explaining where the younger runners are. I would like to point out, it was looking at my youngest brother, who is actually 4 years older than I am, and seeing how much weight he gained that got me into running. While I haven’t really lost any weight in 2 1/2 years, I haven’t gained any either, so that I’m happy about. Lets see. I had 4 or 7 cups of beer tonight and still ran 3:24 for 840 meters, so I don’t feel too bad. I got off to a flying start, but I was out more for the fun of it than to break a PR, so I did walk a bit. I wonder how easy the hills will be in the morning. Roger – one banana, two banana … –

Response:

Dr. R can fly for a BOF

Big Old Art. Once again Layne, Your humor is really great! Thanks, Roger

Response:

A few of those 24-30 year old runners will start running again when they look at the scales.

Http://www.ucop.edu/sciencetoday/pages/archive/transcripts/1997/sci475.html#B Under the category of "we get paid for writing this stuff?!" Scientists have concluded that men over 40 get fat! Furthermore, you should run more to keep from getting fat. But read closer. Even athletic old guys are getting fat, and it’s not because they’re eating more. It’s because the testosterone’s dropping–nature’s way of saying "and you thought baldness was funny?" This answers the question of the original question of the thread: Why are there so many old dudes placing real well in the races? Answer: Compensation. To illustrate. Guy: Hey look! I’m 40 and fat! Chick: Cool. Let’s hop in the sack for some wild monkey sex. This conversation will never exist. At 40, the search begins to replace the testosterone and revisit the debauchery of youth (which also didn’t exist), or perhaps recreate those athletic accomplish of youth (which, yes, you guessed it, didn’t exist.) What to do? Buy red convertible (too expensive). Buy young blonde (too expensive and don’t forget that testosterone thing). Take up running. Guy: Hey look! I’m 40, thin and run the same times as those teenagers. Chick: Cool. Why? Guy: Er…to prove I’m as good as I was 20 years ago? Oh! Did I mention that I’ve worked for 20 years and have a lot more money than those teenagers. Want some? Chick: Cool. Let’s hop in the sack for some wild monkey sex. Jennifer

Response:

Im in those younger age groups 20-24. What a friend of mine and I noticed at the clarksburg 30K championships was that the guys in our age group win the race but then thats it. The example you show–a 27 year old won and a 19 yr old got 2nd. There seems to be a major dichotomy in the 20-30 age group—-really fast guys and really slow guys. It takes all of the 40 somethings to fill in the middle. I’d place a wager that a man under 35 wins 90% of road races out there. jeremy

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pl. Age Time 1 27 27:03 2 19 3 44 4 48 5 36 6 52 7 46 8 45 9 46 [snip] Er, most of those *are* young folks. Pretty funny Layne, What I’d like to know is why is it that my age group always seems to have the most in the top 9. Almost half of them! Thanks, Roger

It’s a pit, eh? If you get a chance to look at the URLs from some of the local races ( http://www.1stplacesports.com/2001results.htm ), look for a Doctor Radical, age 47 (he’s a local physician). Most of the local runs are won by folks under 25 but Dr. R can fly for a BOF (low 17s for 5K, low 35s for 10K, under 1:20 for a half). Of course, it’s not a concern for me, but for you speedier types, …

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Andy, Hi, Here are the top 15 results for a 5 mile race this past weekend on Long Island (NY). Pl. Age Time 1 27 27:03 2 19 3 44 4 48 5 36 6 52 7 46 8 45 9 46 [snip] Er, most of those *are* young folks.

Pretty funny Layne, What I’d like to know is why is it that my age group always seems to have the most in the top 9. Almost half of them! Thanks, Roger

Response:

Hi,

I dunno about America, but here in Britain the decline of good distance runners is mainly due to football (soccer). Back in the late 70’s and early 80’s, the sportsmen on the news we people like Steve Cram, Seb Coe, David Moorcroft, Brendan Foster etc. This meant that a lot of young people idolized them, and indeed, started to run themselves. These people are now in their mid 30’s or older. In recent times, the sportsmen in the news have been football players. And it’s been getting even worse. There isn’t a person in Europe that doesn’t know who David Beckham is, but ask anyone in Britain who Rob Denmark is and they’ll ask what team he plays for. Most of them won’t even have heard of Paul Tergat, Haile Gebrselassie, etc. In fact, the only current long distance runner most people in Britain will have heard of is Paula Radcliffe. Young people just aren’t getting into running these days. I’m only 21, so a youngster in modern running terms – but I only got into running 4 months ago. — Brian Wakem

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Andy, Hi, Here are the top 15 results for a 5 mile race this past weekend on Long Island (NY). Pl. Age Time 1 27 27:03 2 19 3 44 4 48 5 36 6 52 7 46 [snip] Er, most of those *are* young folks. Layne

LOL, agreed! Dot

Response:

I know that virtually all of my friends quit running after high school cross country. They’d had enough of being injured constantly, being under pressure. Also, all stimulus to run is gone… no scheduled practices, no belly to fight. I almost quit myself, but fortunately found triathlon. School running teams are hell for a lot of people. Even now, I race for my college team, but virtually never train with them. (#1 on the team, so I get away with it) Alex

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Here are the top 15 results for a 5 mile race this past weekend on Long Island (NY). Pl. Age Time 1 27 27:03 2 19 3 44 4 48 5 36 6 52 7 46 8 45 9 46 10 44 11 52 12 32 13 32 14 35 15 35 28:57 7 of the top 10 was 40+! 2 of the top 10 was under 30! If you were in your 40’s and slower than 30 minutes you didn’t get any hardware. In fact most of the 20’s runners would have been shut out of the 40’s age group places. Maybe there should be reverse age grading. With those in the 30’s getting a time bonus over those in the 40’s. Andy

Response:

Hi, Here are the top 15 results for a 5 mile race this past weekend on Long Island (NY). Pl. Age Time 1 27 27:03 2 19 3 44 4 48 5 36 6 52 7 46 8 45 9 46 10 44 11 52 12 32 13 32 14 35 15 35 28:57 7 of the top 10 was 40+! 2 of the top 10 was under 30! If you were in your 40’s and slower than 30 minutes you didn’t get any hardware. In fact most of the 20’s runners would have been shut out of the 40’s age group places. Maybe there should be reverse age grading. With those in the 30’s getting a time bonus over those in the 40’s. Andy

Response:

Hi, Andy, Hi, Here are the top 15 results for a 5 mile race this past weekend on Long Island (NY). Pl. Age Time 1 27 27:03 2 19 3 44 4 48 5 36 6 52 7 46

[snip] Er, most of those *are* young folks. Layne

Response:

Training according to Verheul Method

admin — Sat, 24 Nov 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Furthermore, my coach told me that people who are changing training methods should let the method takes its effect. It takes time for your body to get accustomed to a new training method. My guess is that 5-8 weeks is too short for any training method to take its full effect. My coach told me to think more in months than in weeks. So in your case, 5-8 months would be more sensible. Actually, there are a large number of training methods that all work (on some runners better than on others), and which take varying times to be effective. What is amazing is that some coaches are able to find training methods that don’t allow all of their runners to improve. The training programm I currently favor produces PR’s in 1-2 weeks for runners who are in shape, and in 4-6 weeks for runners who are totally out of shape. After the first PR, improvement for women running ~20 mins. for 5k would be expected to be on the order of 6-12 sec. per week throughout the rest of the racing season (assuming the runner is between 16 and 30 years old).

If you’re happy with your current training method, I’m happy for you. However, I have some comments, if you don’t mind. The Verheul Method doesn’t strive for quick solutions, but rather for long term solutions. It’s aim is not to get you into shape quickly (and get you injured just as fast). There is also no age limit (my 72 year old dad uses it as well), although younger newbie runners will obviously improve faster and further than much older newbie runners. So, I’m sure in the short term, your training method is much quicker to take its effect, but the question is if the effect lasts for long. From what you describe it looks more like the last phase of some periodization (is that the correct term?) scheme, and not a complete training program. Furthermore, there are no predictions for improvement, because the Verheul training method is driven by results, not by (uncertain) predictions like most other training methods. Most coaches want to achieve PB’s for their pupils ASAP, because it makes him popular, which in turn gives him a constant flow of new talent and keeps the T&F club’s management happy. From what I’m told I understand that Herman Verheul wasn’t at all like this. He wasn’t interested in popularity. He was more interested in building strong athletes who did their best. This building takes years, and only a few athletes will become national celebrities. However, I’m sure he was just as proud of runners who didn’t reach that elite level, but nevertheless, after years of training, reached their top performance. I’m sure popular coaches deliver more elite and sub-elite runners because they have a larger pool of possible talented athletes. The question is: "What happens with those less talented athletes?" Did they reach their peak performance as well, or are they the runt of the lot and did they have to bail out of the training school, because they got injured before they could prove themselves? IMO the promise of fast results are often an indicator of a destructive training method. I hope that not the case with your training method. Rene van Belzen hurray [at] REMOVEMExs4all [dot] nl My Running Log http://www.xs4all.nl/~hurray/myrunninglog/

Response:

Perhaps I should remove the table and rewrite the entire article, so that unsuspecting readers aren’t tempted to try this training method for a couple of weeks, after which they conclude it was nothing worth while for them (and then try something else for a couple of weeks). If someone is as dumb as that, there

wtc in 2002?

admin — Fri, 26 Oct 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Actually, a small number of MS Flight-Simulator 2002 CD’s ‘were’ released with the WTC–all were recalled–three weeks later the ‘post-WTC’ version was released. Does anyone know why Midway and Ohara (Chicago) are not listed as departure points? Also–I landed at Ohara with a B-777, but could not turn off the runway–why? Dave Brownell Mesa, AZ

Response:

I don’t see the Catholic Daughters or the Methodist Bowling League blowing up buildings, tying up women, or running arround with AK 47s screaming like a bunch of coyotes in heat. Don’t start me on how goat syphilis makes you have these cave visions and write total nonsense that leads to almost 1500 years of killing innocents, Sabu.

Let’s not forget that the Catholic church (and I am a Catholic) was guilty to very similar crimes when was at the height of it’s political power. I say that only to underscore the original point that anyone can take any religion and twist its teachings around to suit their particular sickness. RE: M$ not including WTC. I don’t think it’s a requirement of FS2002 to be a memorial for the WTC victims. Keeping Kai Tak in there makes sense because it was a challenging airport to land at. The WTC towers were only used for knife edge passes in fast planes whenever I flew near them in a sim. That’s not any fun any more so, I personally don’t see the point in keeping a visual landmark that is no longer there. The best tribute to the WTC victims will be whatever buildings replace them. Life continued. And FS2010 (or whatever) should included them when built because the are now a visual land mark. — Joseph Nastasi YOU ARE GO! Educational Space Simulations http://www.youarego.com "as far as we reach out into space, as deep we reach inside ourselves"

Response:

*snip* You will have to wait for Microsoft Time Machine 2002 to be released if you would like to go back in time and see the towers. I understand that mstm2k2 will be very easy to play. Just one dial in the cockpit which can be turned counterclockwise to go backwards in time and clockwise to go forward in time. The welcome screen will allow you to start anywhere and at any time in the world. Should be very exciting.

Wow! Sounds great! Will you also be able to, say, go back in time and see the Berlin Wall as it stood? Or maybe even go see a volcano erupt?

Response:

says… The WTC towers were only used for knife edge passes in fast planes whenever I flew near them in a sim. That’s not any fun any more so, I personally don’t see the point in keeping a visual landmark that is no longer there.

I still think that would be fun and don’t think it would be disrespectful to do that. I’ve done it a hundred times and I don’t have a terrorist bone in my body. Its an piloting challenge that is really unequalled anywhere else in the scenery. For example, its also fun to fly under bridges but if one bridge is removed, there are still plenty of others to fly under. But there are no other "twin" skyscrapers that I am aware of. Also, that’s not the only thing they were good for. They made the NY scenery very cool looking even just flying around. Also, you can land helicopters on the roof. Anyway, I do think MS made the right decision to leave them out but I wouldn’t be opposed to someone making an addon that optionally puts them back. — Rich Iachetta I do not speak for IBM.

Response:

There is a hell of a lot of difference between freedom fighters against an occupying force in their own land than a bunch of semi-wild animals that go halfway across the world to kill a bunch of innocent civilians just going about their own business. Never forget the 15,000 children who lost parents.

Let me see if I can make a connection between this post and the subject of this newsgroup which is FLIGHT SIMULATION…. ummmmm, can’t seem to come up with it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well they haven’t piloted planes into buildings but they have done everything else. You’d be fascinated to read some of the stuff that happened when Palestine was still a protectorate of Britain. It wasn’t the Arabs that ran them off. Oh boy, a political post on a newsgroup, Am I crazy?

Bandit runners-good or bad?

admin — Fri, 24 Aug 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Several good arguements have already been posted about why you shouldn’t run as a bandit. I can think of two additional reasons: 1.) What if you got badly hurt on the course (heart attack, head injury, etc.)? The race organizers will assume responsibility for your care, but they won’t have the slightest idea who you are. This could cause serious problems for contacting family, etc. 2.) If you run as a bandit, some runner who actually qualified might take a swing at you. When I was at the start of the Boston Marathon this year, a young college kid tried to jump over the barrier into the corral where the runners were assembling. An older runner -I’m guessing he was in his 60’s – rushed up to the fence and pushed him back into the street yelling, "Get out of here! This race is for people who qualified!" As he turned away he muttered, "Damn kids try that every year." – - – R. Walter What’s everyone’s take on the idea of running a marathon (i.e. Boston) without having a bib or qualifying time? Do the bandits pretty much just sit in the back and wait for all the bib runners to start, then start themselves? Thanks, Rob R. Walter, CA

Response:

The same thing as if you out on your own and you had a heart attack, head injury, etc. Which is why runners should always carry some form of identification with a contact number. I’ve filled out very few race entries where an emergency number was asked for. I’d be more concerned about taking resources away from race organizers. But on the other hand if I were off on my own running off the course and an ambulance was delayed because it was covering a race I’d be pleanty upset. 2.) If you run as a bandit, some runner who actually qualified might take a swing at you. When I was at the start of the Boston Marathon this year, a young college kid tried to jump over the barrier into the corral where the runners were assembling. An older runner -I’m guessing he was in his 60’s – rushed up to the fence and pushed him back into the street yelling, "Get out of here! This race is for people who qualified!" As he turned away he muttered, "Damn kids try that every year."

Bandits were once part of the Boston tradition and welcomed by race organizers. But I guess Boston has been gentrified. The older runner should have also included those running for charities (who didn’t qualify) and other "invited guests" (who didn’t qualify). Andy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – - – - R. Walter What’s everyone’s take on the idea of running a marathon (i.e. Boston) without having a bib or qualifying time? Do the bandits pretty much just sit in the back and wait for all the bib runners to start, then start themselves? Thanks, Rob R. Walter, CA

Response:

Actually, the first female runner (Katherine Switzer) wasn’t a bandit but rather (implicitly or explicitly) registered as a male under the name "K.Switzer". (I say "implicitly" because if the entry form says "for men only" by submitting an entry, you are implying that you are male) Rightly or wrongly, she was pulled off the course when her "fraud" became evident.

I think you are mistaken about the resolution of that event: (From another site) Women did not become "official" at the Boston Marathon until 1971. In 1967, Roberta Gibb snuck into the marathon incognito, but it was another woman who got the headlines: Kathy Switzer, a Syracuse University student. Unlike Gibb, Switzer had a race number. Race officials never suspected that "K. V. Switzer" (as she signed her name on the entry form) was a woman (Tricky tricky!). About 4 miles into the race, marathon organizer Jock Semple spotted Switzer from the press bus. He jumped off and attempted to rip off her numbers (in those days worn on both the front and the back), but her running partners warded him off. Captured in photos that were published all over the world, the incident will long endure as a defining moment in the history of women’s running. Check out this awesome picture: http://www.wwnorton.com/college/history/tindall/timelinf/marathon.htm (end of excerpt) — Asya Kamsky I will complete a marathon and raise $5000 for the SF AIDS Foundation, Dec 9, 2001, Honolulu, Hawaii. Sponsor me! For more information see http://www.things.org/~asya/why.html

Response:

X-No-Archive: yes As for a "good" bandit. Well the first female runner was definitely a "good" bandit because she made it possible for other female to run in the Boston Marathon also. Actually, the first female runner (Katherine Switzer) wasn’t a bandit but rather (implicitly or explicitly) registered as a male under the name "K.Switzer". (I say "implicitly" because if the entry form says "for men only" by submitting an entry, you are implying that you are male) Rightly or wrongly, she was pulled off the course when her "fraud" became evident.

The first female finisher was in fact Roberta Gibb in 1966. She ran as a bandit. The second woman to finish was K. Switzer in 1967 who had entered and ran with a number. Jock Semple, the race director, attempted to pull her off the course when her boyfriend gave Semple a shoulder block while the press truck was busy photographing it all. The first official Women’s Champion was Nina Kuscsik in 1972 3:10. Source "The Boston Marathon" Joe Falls. Andy

Response:

Check out this awesome picture: http://www.wwnorton.com/college/history/tindall/timelinf/marathon.htm

Thanks for the URL. I’ve read enough about that, but never saw a picture of it. As for Roberta Gibb, well my heart pours out to her. It is too bad they still will not recognize her as the top female finisher for the years she ran it before females were allowed. Roger

Response:

Hi: There is a wonderful race in West Brome Qu

Bandit runners-good or bad?

admin — Fri, 24 Aug 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I propose that bandits be shot on sight

that’s a good idea. photographic evidence always hold well if you want to haul them to court for illegal use of facilities. jobs

Response:

Many powerful men (Avery Brundage) thought that running long distances (800meters) would cause irreparable harm. As my girlfriend likes to say "He thought their uteruses would fall out." In the Olympics one year in the 30s or just after WWII, a woman or two apparently collapsed at the end of the 800m race due to running hard (gasp!) and the heat. Apparently, the people in power thought that was a good rationale for limiting the race distance. Of course, when did the first woman swim the English Channel? I wonder what those men thought later as women entered the same distance events as men and posted times that would have made the great Finns of the 20s proud?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – in the history of women’s running. Check out this awesome picture: http://www.wwnorton.com/college/history/tindall/timelinf/marathon.htm Wow… what a powerful photograph. What kind of neurotic pigs were behind that "men-only" policy? You know, I don’t think they were neurotic pigs, they were just men of their times who didn’t question what was given to them as facts: – women can’t run, they are not strong enough – women can’t be

Response:

Here we go again….. I think banditing is wrong, ethically, morally and legally. I think a theft of services argument can be made in many cases. BAA pays to have the streets closed and police on hand (I assume) and that by not paying, you are using the service without permission (like stealing cable service). Bandits usually do not line up even at the back since a race official would see them and confront them (one hopes). I usually see bandits (and registered runners in some cases) jump into the race a mile or two into the race. I propose that bandits be shot on sight

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s everyone’s take on the idea of running a marathon (i.e. Boston) without having a bib or qualifying time? Do the bandits pretty much just sit in the back and wait for all the bib runners to start, then start themselves? Thanks, Rob

Response:

About 4 miles into the race, marathon organizer Jock Semple spotted Switzer from the press bus. He jumped off and attempted to rip off her numbers (in those days worn on both the front and the back), but her running partners warded him off. Captured in photos that were published all over the world, the incident will long endure as a defining moment in the history of women’s running. Check out this awesome picture: http://www.wwnorton.com/college/history/tindall/timelinf/marathon.htm

Wow… what a powerful photograph. What kind of neurotic pigs were behind that "men-only" policy? — jm http://www.qsl.net/ke5fx Note: My E-mail address has been altered to avoid spam

Response:

You know, that’s one of the fights that comes up again and again in this newsgroup:

Well it’s slightly different. Men-only races (eg Boston until very recently): "bad" and organized by "neurotic pigs" Women-only races (eg several franchises of the Run for the Cure breast cancer race): "good"

Actually a good point and you did not tie it to sexual preference. It’s a product of the times or the backlash from the prejudices of times back. Boys want to be girl scouts and vice versa. I have no problem with women or men only races as long as there is also a variety that both can enjoy. — Caveat Lector Doug Freese

Response:

in the history of women’s running. Check out this awesome picture: http://www.wwnorton.com/college/history/tindall/timelinf/marathon.htm Wow… what a powerful photograph. What kind of neurotic pigs were behind that "men-only" policy?

You know, I don’t think they were neurotic pigs, they were just men of their times who didn’t question what was given to them as facts: – women can’t run, they are not strong enough – women can’t be

Response:

Bandits don’t upset me as much as slow people way up front. I guess it might be because there are more of them than bandits in this area. One of the very first races I was in, I didn’t pay for it. I ran a block here and a block there with my sister and I was the only one wearing a leather jacket and long pants. I doubt if anyone got mad at me, heck they probably thought it was pretty funny. I did it with a valid bib number when I ran the whole thing and I’d run it again if it didn’t conflict with another race I like doing, that now falls on the same weekend. Darn. Thanks, Roger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi: There is a wonderful race in West Brome Qu

Shaving????

admin — Sat, 26 May 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Povl H. Pedersen spoke the following words of wisdom: : Masseurs are most often male around here… Damn. Greetings, der Joachim — Computational linguistics student at Tilburg U., the Netherlands http://www.der-joachim.myweb.nl/ Servant of reality my hairy ass! (H.P. Derleth, Hollow One)

Response:

BarryNL spoke the following words of wisdom: : … it’s easier to get post race/training massages without all : that hair in the way. Uhm… is it because masseurs think that men with smooth legs are more sexy? Please excuse me while I steal my sister’s Ladyshave. Greetings, der Joachim — Computational linguistics student at Tilburg U., the Netherlands http://www.der-joachim.myweb.nl/ Servant of reality my hairy ass! (H.P. Derleth, Hollow One)

Response:

Well, I don’t think it’s something the casual runner would do. Does feeling faster turn into faster times? Who knows. But who knows if any of the other weird stuff runners do actually helps them. I think it does. For many people believing in something outside themselves helps them summon that last bit of effort at the end of a race. Whether what helps them is a special pair of shorts, carrying their racing shoes on their warmups, brushing their teeth before a race, or whatever else it all leads to confidence and confidence is good. -jeff

Response:

good point jeff i wear tiggers on my shoes ,,,, it brings out the TIGER in me ggrrrr plodzilla – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Really. It seems symptomatic of an ever increasing narcissism. It’s one thing with women shaving their legs, but that’s been part of my culture since I was born. Do men really need to follow suit? The notion of shaving so that your muscles are better defined seems a rather sad hobby. As to the notion that they might feel like they’re running faster, that’s great, but do they feel like they placed higher? Times will tell. Well, I don’t think it’s something the casual runner would do. Does feeling faster turn into faster times? Who knows. But who knows if any of the other weird stuff runners do actually helps them. I think it does. For many people believing in something outside themselves helps them summon that last bit of effort at the end of a race. Whether what helps them is a special pair of shorts, carrying their racing shoes on their warmups, brushing their teeth before a race, or whatever else it all leads to confidence and confidence is good. -jeff

Response:

Really. It seems symptomatic of an ever increasing narcissism. It’s one thing with women shaving their legs, but that’s been part of my culture since I was born. Do men really need to follow suit? The notion of shaving so that your muscles are better defined seems a rather sad hobby. As to the notion that they might feel like they’re running faster, that’s great, but do they feel like they placed higher? Times will tell. There may be some merit in the concept of keeping wounds clean – so I can understand that. Glad you’re not shaving though… common sense prevails! As for Rick – hey do whatever you feel like. I assure you you won’t be the only one, no matter what. There are a lot of interesting individuals at any race. As for me, "I yam what I yam" (and that’s hairy and slightly overweight, with full but irritating straight hair and large feet (maybe due for podosuction) and a skijump nose (maybe due for rhinograding) and kinda knock kneed (kkkoplasty?) etc., and just enjoying life anyways) Be yourself, and have a great race, where effort and determination count for everything, and looks not at all. d – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There’s a few of reasons why runners might shave their legs. First, you’re putting in all those miles to condition your legs but you’re hiding them with a bunch of fluff. Shaving your legs makes the muscles appear more defined. That’s why the people in the magazines and catalogs generally have their legs shaved. Also, it makes some people feel like they’re running faster. The cool air gliding across bare legs can be invigorating I guess (I wouldn’t know). This psychological reason is also part of why swimmers do it. I know of several runners that do the steeple chase that shave their legs. I’m not sure if this is because there is a greater likelihood of falling and getting a nasty cut, or what. Obviously, if you tear off some skin it would be better not to have a bunch of hair getting in the way of cleaning it – this is why some bikers do it. Finally, the massage thing might make sense although any professional massuse would probably have a supply of oils on hand to take care of this problem. Maybe it makes it easier for quick, track-side massages though. -jeff Does anyone shave just for running’s sake. It looks in the magizines and the catalogs like everyone shaves their body hair…… Do real runners do this. Sorry for the strange question, but I just got my wieght down and my endurance up to were I am doing my first 5 K this Memorial day. I don’t want to look like the only hairy bear there

Response:

I know this may sound rather absurd to some people, but is it that you’re looking for somebody to say "Yes, shave your legs!" so that you can? Ok, ok….If this isn’t the case, don’t hunt me down or anything…It’s just every angle should be looked at, correct? I’m not saying it is, but if so, post the exact same question on a beginner’s women’s running newsgroup…you’ll get the answer you’re looking for… Sean Chester Vancouver Island, Canada P.S. Sorry if it’s not… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone shave just for running’s sake. It looks in the magizines and the catalogs like everyone shaves their body hair…… Do real runners do this. Sorry for the strange question, but I just got my wieght down and my endurance up to were I am doing my first 5 K this Memorial day. I don’t want to look like the only hairy bear there

Response:

Forrest Gump didn’t shave and look how well he ran.

Response:

Imagine how well he would of ran if he did. *smiles* Sean Chester Vancouver Island, Canada – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Forrest Gump didn’t shave and look how well he ran.

Response:

A serious cycling friend of mine told me the main reasons most cyclists do this is that it makes wounds easier to clean up when they fall off and it’s easier to get post race/training massages without all that hair in the way. I guess the second reason might apply most to professional runners. — Regards, Barry Running & Stuff: http://distancerunner.tmfweb.nl "The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have training logs to keep; and miles to run before I sleep".

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone shave just for running’s sake. It looks in the magizines and the catalogs like everyone shaves their body hair…… Do real runners do this. Sorry for the strange question, but I just got my wieght down and my endurance up to were I am doing my first 5 K this Memorial day. I don’t want to look like the only hairy bear there

Response:

Rick spoke the following words of wisdom: : Does anyone shave just for running’s sake. It looks in the magizines : and the catalogs like everyone shaves their body hair…… Do real : runners do this. I heard about some men who shave their armpits for reasons of hygiene. They run a lot, sweat a lot and with smooth armpits, they feel cleaner. I must admit never having seen a male runner with shaved legs. Then again, I haven’t been on a massive event before. Greetings, der Joachim PS: I do not even shave my face prior to running. Too painful if the sweat goes into the little wounds. — Computational linguistics student at Tilburg U., the Netherlands http://www.der-joachim.myweb.nl/ Servant of reality my hairy ass! (H.P. Derleth, Hollow One)

Response:

There’s a few of reasons why runners might shave their legs. First, you’re putting in all those miles to condition your legs but you’re hiding them with a bunch of fluff. Shaving your legs makes the muscles appear more defined. That’s why the people in the magazines and catalogs generally have their legs shaved. Also, it makes some people feel like they’re running faster. The cool air gliding across bare legs can be invigorating I guess (I wouldn’t know). This psychological reason is also part of why swimmers do it. I know of several runners that do the steeple chase that shave their legs. I’m not sure if this is because there is a greater likelihood of falling and getting a nasty cut, or what. Obviously, if you tear off some skin it would be better not to have a bunch of hair getting in the way of cleaning it – this is why some bikers do it. Finally, the massage thing might make sense although any professional massuse would probably have a supply of oils on hand to take care of this problem. Maybe it makes it easier for quick, track-side massages though. -jeff

Response:

Real Runner’s Run ……Some shave some even bathe…some don’t. Bob/Run2th – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone shave just for running’s sake. It looks in the magizines and the catalogs like everyone shaves their body hair…… Do real runners do this. Sorry for the strange question, but I just got my wieght down and my endurance up to were I am doing my first 5 K this Memorial day. I don’t want to look like the only hairy bear there

Response:

hope this helps ,,,, my bro run ,, cycles ,, swim ,,, he shaves his legs ,,, i run/swim/climb i do not shave ,, i have thought about it ,,, my swim coach says a should cuz it does ’shave ‘ time off your swim ,,, half the females say yes ,,,, half say no ,,, half the guys say yes ,,, half say no ,,, hope this helps clodzilla – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone shave just for running’s sake. It looks in the magizines and the catalogs like everyone shaves their body hair…… Do real runners do this. Sorry for the strange question, but I just got my wieght down and my endurance up to were I am doing my first 5 K this Memorial day. I don’t want to look like the only hairy bear there

Response:

It’s true that they show hairless runners in mags. I once asked rthe same question to this newsgroup. The answer, as far as I know, is no. The only people who had shaved legs (not the rest) at races happened to be triathletes who did it for their cycling. Bicycle racing (which I used to do), and I do mean *racing*, is a sport where everyone shaves. There’s a rather long tradition of that in it. The reasons usually invoked are massage (something that runners get too, mind you), and the treatment of scrapes ("road rash") from falls (unfortunately a part of the sport!). I don’t shave for running. So there’s no need for you to shave. There’ll plenty of hairy bears around you! Good luck! Daniel Does anyone shave just for running’s sake. It looks in the magizines and the catalogs like everyone shaves their body hair…… Do real runners do this. Sorry for the strange question, but I just got my wieght down and my endurance up to were I am doing my first 5 K this Memorial day. I don’t want to look like the only hairy bear there

– Daniel Pierre-Antoine Dept. of Political Science Carleton University 1125 Colonel By Drive Ottawa, ON K1S 5B6

Response:

Rick, It is entirely your choice as to whether you want to shave before your race. Over 5km is may *sudden urge to use the same pun as Mario did earlier* take 12 seconds off your overall time, if that. I know a lot of world class sprinters do, as the .013 seconds, or however much it is, is really relevant in a race that short. Unless you plan to place first overall, I don’t think 12 seconds here or there will make too much of a difference. I’d be more concerned about making sure it’s a fun, worthwhile experience, so as to make sure you’ll want to do it again. Sean Chester Vancouver Island, Canada – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone shave just for running’s sake. It looks in the magizines and the catalogs like everyone shaves their body hair…… Do real runners do this. Sorry for the strange question, but I just got my wieght down and my endurance up to were I am doing my first 5 K this Memorial day. I don’t want to look like the only hairy bear there

Response:

Does anyone shave just for running’s sake. It looks in the magizines and the catalogs like everyone shaves their body hair…… Do real runners do this.

Sounds more like a rec.swimming question! No, no runners I know shave their body hair. And I’d never shave my face before a race. Freshly shaved face burns a bit too much when doused with salty sweat. Your apparent neighbor in twcny.rr.com land, — Josh Steinberg

Response:

Does anyone shave just for running’s sake. It looks in the magizines and the catalogs like everyone shaves their body hair…… Do real runners do this. Sorry for the strange question, but I just got my wieght down and my endurance up to were I am doing my first 5 K this Memorial day. I don’t want to look like the only hairy bear there

Response:

Shaving my face for a race is bad enough – and I don’t always do that. You ever see a bear run? They’re actually pretty fast, although I don’t know how much endurance training they do. I’d love to be mistaken for a bear. Rob

Response:

From your opening statement, I couldn’t tell if you were talking about running magazines and catalogs. If I assumed that you were talking about running magazines and catalogs, I would have to disagree with you regarding the shaving of body hair. Reals runners are very individualistic and don’t follow the general populace. If shaving hair would be something you’d like to do to really stand out, you may want to shave one leg and leave the other unshaven. However, most likely very few would notice it. Most probably wouldn’t even care. Some would say, "That’s cool." Others would say "That’s strange." Real runners are people who blend in with the general populace. So the majority of women I know in the US shave legs and underarms. And many of them are not runners. Some people might say that they’re wannabe runners. That person most likely would be a runner. Others would question that since most real runners don’t have time to judge who are real runners and who aren’t. They’re too busy running and looking at what they can do to continuously improve or to run injury free to care. With regard to men, a large percentage of them do shave their body hair on their faces. So the truth is that many male runners shave their facial body hair. Some of them only shave portions of their facial body hair. Come to think of it, I have no idea what a real runner would be. You are opening questions that have been circulating at rec.running since I first came here in ‘94 and which probably were there long before that. If I were a real coach, I’d probably have you forget about such a distraction and go out and enjoy a great Memorial Day 5K. And then I’d be sure to tell you to come back after and tell us what your experience was. Also I’d have you check out other runners and joggers and see how many of them shaved their body hair. That would keep you distracted until the run so that you wouldn’t get nervous. If I were a real coach, I might tell you to start a few seconds a mile slower than your training pace so that you wouldn’t blow away in the first mile like many unthinking runners do. If you went out too fast, it would take you the next mile or more to recover and you would feel crummy. Shaven hair would be the last thing in the world that would come to mind. The pain in your lungs and your legs would be paramount. You’d recover about a half mile from the finish line and you’d sprint the last 100 yards glad that it was over and pleased that you’d finished your first 5 K. You might even think about doing another one, but starting out a little slower just like a real coach would have told you. Run well, have fun, and think about shaven hair to keep you calm. — In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer – rec.running FAQ http://www.faqs.org/faqs/by-newsgroup/rec/rec.running.html Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975 Mindful Running http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp