What do you all think about High Intensity Interval Training as opposed to long duration jogging

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Question:

High intensity training can be very beneficial, as long as you do very slowly.

Would that be Special High Intesity Training or S#IT for short?

Response:

However, it may have limited relevance. For me, as a competitive runner, I don’t really care if one training modality is "more efficient" than another, as long as I’ve got time to train. No opinion on whether HIIT is actually more efficient or not. But, if one is more than a one-dimensional runner, a more efficient mode of training for a given goal could be quite valuable in allowing a person more time for the other activities they find valuable in their lives (music, gardening, dancing, time with family, hours at work, whatever),

Not necessarily. If someone enjoys running, they might actually be interested in spending some time running. A reasonable training load doesn’t require a heavy time commitment. I only train a little over 1hr a day, and if you’re even *thinking* of training as much as I do, you’re probably serious enough to put in that much time without a second thought. Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

I usually 2-4 times a week for about 80 minutes. LOLOLOL You punkass bitch! You aren’t even a real runner. I do a minimum of 90 minutes A DAY!

Ok, that’s your masturbation routine nailed down. How about telling us how much running you do. Edward

Response:

Ok, that’s your masturbation routine nailed down. How about telling us how much running you do. Edward

That’s your wet dream you homo. You wish you could still get your tiny boy hard without viagra, butt butts just don’t do it for you like they used to. Now try running you punk, one hour a day minimum. Frickin’ punkass jogger idiots…

Response:

However, it may have limited relevance. For me, as a competitive runner, I don’t really care if one training modality is "more efficient" than another, as long as I’ve got time to train.

No opinion on whether HIIT is actually more efficient or not. But, if one is more than a one-dimensional runner, a more efficient mode of training for a given goal could be quite valuable in allowing a person more time for the other activities they find valuable in their lives (music, gardening, dancing, time with family, hours at work, whatever), or at least in slightly increasing the recovery time available between workouts. IMHO. YMMV. — Ron Nicholson rhn AT nicholson DOT com http://www.nicholson.com/rhn/ #include <canonical.disclaimer // only my own opinions, etc.

Response:

High intensity training can be very beneficial, as long as you do very slowly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ trying to look for counter-points to this form of training and what better place to look then a runner’s ng. I’m talking about training where you sprint your ass off for 20 seconds, walk or jog of 15 seconds and sprint again, doing this for about 5 minutes. Of course including few minutes of warm up and cool down. I’ve read that in experiments where they compare both styles of exercise that those who exercise in HIIT gain not only of 10% anaerobic endurance but also 14% of aerobic endurance, meanwhile the medium intensity high duration people only gained 10% in aerobic endurance and naught in anaerobic. I have been running for a few months, and do notice an overall increase in endurance when I play other sports, but stairs still suck the life out of me as much as they did even before I use to run. I usually 2-4 times a week for about 80 minutes. This is what I have read on HIIT so far… http://www.buildleanmuscle.com/interval-training.html http://www.teenbodybuilding.com/justin6.htm http://www.cs.unm.edu/~wneumann/files/guerilla_cardio.pdf Thanks

Response:

Some of us might know about it (indeed, since you’ve posted this and similar dozens of times, anyone who doesn’t should be bashed about with the clue stick) However, it may have limited relevance. For me, as a competitive runner, I don’t really care if one training modality is "more efficient" than another, as long as I’ve got time to train. I think these claims of efficiency are misleading anyway, unless one wishes to argue that one can/should sprint without a decent warmup. I also am not very interested in whether one training modality is "better" than another. I am more interested in setting up a *training program*. Since I can include multiple training modalities in the overall program, I’m more interested in how the different types of training collaborate to produce the greatest possible overall effect. I’m also interested in big-picture issues like avoiding injury, periodisation, and of course, how the program translates into real-world track performances. In light of this, I’m interested in using a program that I’m convinced can produce good race performances, while minimising stress on the body. All-out sprinting maximises stress (especially if you don’t warm up!), it doesn’t minimise it. In other words, these results are no doubt interesting to academics (and hucksters in the mickey-mouse body-building/fad-diet world), but I don’t see this stuff helping me on the roads. Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

You might have figured out by now that distance runners are not particularly well versed on this subject. I think this is because the running publications are dominated by marathon types. People run marathons because they’re slow (compared to, say, milers), so they don’t like all-out speed, so the running mags don’t write about this, thus the average runner doesn’t hear about this. There is a lot of physiology research published on high intensity training in the past few years, and if you want the straight facts, you have to read it for yourself. The real basis is the research that you’ve already heard about done by Izumi Tabata (1996) and originally published in MSSE. Some more stuff that is more on the technical side: http://www.sportsci.org/jour/0101/cf.pdf http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/84/6/2138 http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content-nw/full/90/6/2019/T2 The key point that everyone (except maybe Sam) doesn’t seem to get is that intermittent training is high intensity anerobic training for AEROBIC IMPROVEMENT. The key, here, seems to be training that improves the power of the glycolytic system. This involves maximum intensity training that lasts for 6-30 seconds. Sprint training lasting less than 6 seconds has had no effect on citric synthase, and running longer than 30 seconds stresses the maximum capacity of the glycolytic system (anerobic capacity), thus not allowing the ability to recover quickly. The HIIT training that seems to work best is running repeats of 6-20 second all-out with short rest (10-60 seconds) or repeats of 20-30 seconds with rest of 2-5 minutes (or more). Comparing High Intensity Training (HIT) and Low Intensity Training (LIT), the actual improvement in physiological measurements in the papers that I’ve seen is about like this: Training VO2max citric synthase Glut4 LIT +17-22% +40-45% +90% HIT +7-14% +36-40% +85% The actual training volume of HIT or HIIT is at least an order of magnitude lower, so the training is far more efficient, with the exception of VO2max improvements (this may be a volume effect). So it seems that one will get a better overall effect by doing some more conventional aerobic training (for instance 30-60 minutes at 80-85% heart rate a few times a week) before the high intensity stuff. So you need some slower aerobic training for maximum benefit (to raise VO2max) at some time in your training. However, VO2max plateaus very early in one’s running career, so for someone that has done VO2max training in the past, it is not clear that doing this in conjuction with the high intensity training actually carries a benefit. Noakes gives a rather small potential VO2max gain for people that have been doing running training, regardless of the mileage increase. Lyndon "Speed Kills…It kills those that don’t have it!" –US Olympic Track Coach Brooks Johnson

Response:

Gaining areobic endurance is great for sprints and short events and useless for marathons and such. You refer to a few body building sites so do you need aerobic endurance for that? There’s a Covert Bailey book or two that recommends some intervals with intensity just for general fitness (usual disclaimer: medical check from your doctor first if you’re a blob/couch potato/etc.). Apparently something to do with the anaerobic exercise helping to prevent the loss of muscle mass with age. I don’t recall if there was a science-backed bibliography in these books or not.

You’re in an area that is out of my sphere of knowledge. I subscribe to the use it or lose it idea. I have all the muscle mass I need to get me through my usual 5 to 13 mile runs and as long as I can still keep running that should be all I need. Above and beyond that is news to me. But even the marathon training books I’ve perused at the library recommend some small percentage of interval reps (or fartlek[sp?]), for working on running form (finishing kick?) if nothing else.

Yes marathoners of all abilities can benefit from some form of speedworkout. But it should be evaluated in terms of does the work outweigh the benefit. Everybody has their own motivations but there are many non-competitive mathoners who really don’t need to have a finishing kick in a marathon. But the improvement in running form could be a positive though. my $0.02 Andy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – IMHO. YMMV.

Response:

I usually 2-4 times a week for about 80 minutes.

LOLOLOL You punkass bitch! You aren’t even a real runner. I do a minimum of 90 minutes A DAY!

Response:

A pragmatic reason to do intensity is that most people have days where time is short so they should run "harder" to expend the same amount of energy or for a specific training stimulus. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gaining areobic endurance is great for sprints and short events and useless for marathons and such. You refer to a few body building sites so do you need aerobic endurance for that? There’s a Covert Bailey book or two that recommends some intervals with intensity just for general fitness (usual disclaimer: medical check from your doctor first if you’re a blob/couch potato/etc.). Apparently something to do with the anaerobic exercise helping to prevent the loss of muscle mass with age. I don’t recall if there was a science-backed bibliography in these books or not. But even the marathon training books I’ve perused at the library recommend some small percentage of interval reps (or fartlek[sp?]), for working on running form (finishing kick?) if nothing else. IMHO. YMMV. — Ron Nicholson rhn AT nicholson DOT com http://www.nicholson.com/rhn/ #include <canonical.disclaimer // only my own opinions, etc.

Response:

do you train on stairs??? i am sure you have heard race on hill?? trains on hill!! train fast – run fast train slow – run slow i allternate days fo fast adn slow plodizlla – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ trying to look for counter-points to this form of training and what better place to look then a runner’s ng. I’m talking about training where you sprint your ass off for 20 seconds, walk or jog of 15 seconds and sprint again, doing this for about 5 minutes. Of course including few minutes of warm up and cool down. I’ve read that in experiments where they compare both styles of exercise that those who exercise in HIIT gain not only of 10% anaerobic endurance but also 14% of aerobic endurance, meanwhile the medium intensity high duration people only gained 10% in aerobic endurance and naught in anaerobic. I have been running for a few months, and do notice an overall increase in endurance when I play other sports, but stairs still suck the life out of me as much as they did even before I use to run. I usually 2-4 times a week for about 80 minutes. This is what I have read on HIIT so far… http://www.buildleanmuscle.com/interval-training.html http://www.teenbodybuilding.com/justin6.htm http://www.cs.unm.edu/~wneumann/files/guerilla_cardio.pdf Thanks

Response:

Gaining areobic endurance is great for sprints and short events and useless for marathons and such. You refer to a few body building sites so do you need aerobic endurance for that?

There’s a Covert Bailey book or two that recommends some intervals with intensity just for general fitness (usual disclaimer: medical check from your doctor first if you’re a blob/couch potato/etc.). Apparently something to do with the anaerobic exercise helping to prevent the loss of muscle mass with age. I don’t recall if there was a science-backed bibliography in these books or not. But even the marathon training books I’ve perused at the library recommend some small percentage of interval reps (or fartlek[sp?]), for working on running form (finishing kick?) if nothing else. IMHO. YMMV. — Ron Nicholson rhn AT nicholson DOT com http://www.nicholson.com/rhn/ #include <canonical.disclaimer // only my own opinions, etc.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ trying to look for counter-points to this form of training and what better place to look then a runner’s ng. I’m talking about training where you sprint your ass off for 20 seconds, walk or jog of 15 seconds and sprint again, doing this for about 5 minutes. Of course including few minutes of warm up and cool down. I’ve read that in experiments where they compare both styles of exercise that those who exercise in HIIT gain not only of 10% anaerobic endurance but also 14% of aerobic endurance, meanwhile the medium intensity high duration people only gained 10% in aerobic endurance and naught in anaerobic. I have been running for a few months, and do notice an overall increase in endurance when I play other sports, but stairs still suck the life out of me as much as they did even before I use to run. I usually 2-4 times a week for about 80 minutes. This is what I have read on HIIT so far… http://www.buildleanmuscle.com/interval-training.html http://www.teenbodybuilding.com/justin6.htm http://www.cs.unm.edu/~wneumann/files/guerilla_cardio.pdf Thanks

What is your goal? You can’t have a plan and we can’t give our comments on your plan if you don’t tell us what results you want. Gaining areobic endurance is great for sprints and short events and useless for marathons and such. You refer to a few body building sites so do you need aerobic endurance for that? I can’t say anything about that because I’ve never been involved in bodybuilding. Sprinters are pretty well sculpted but it has more to do with the weights they lift than the running they do. I’ve run for many years and have skinny legs, yet well defined. Doing aerobic training is pretty useless in terms of getting and keeping a base level of fittness. If you’re trying to do that stop now before you end up injuring yourself. Unless you are a highly trained athlete any aerobic training that doesn’t cause injury is beneficial to you athletic endevours. my $0.02 Andy

Response:

Competitive distance runners do not view interval training as being "opposed" to "long duration jogging". We do both intervals and steady paced aerobic runs. The adaptions that are caused by endurance training and intervals are not the same (even if the tests used in some studies can’t tell the difference). For example, try running a marathon on HIIT alone. The fact that the adaptions one gets are different (and useful for distance runners) is the reason why we do both. As for the idea of doing a program consisting *entirely* of intervals, there are many who belive such a program is likely to produce injury (even the HIIT websites who place some weasel-words in as if this is of peripheral importance compared to the results they yell about). The HIIT weight loss study (Tremblay et al) used the stationary bike. It would be interesting to see what the injury rates would be if they used running on the same subject pool (but they’d have a hard time even getting permission to do such a study) Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

As for the idea of doing a program consisting *entirely* of intervals, there are many who belive such a program is likely to produce injury (even the HIIT websites who place some weasel-words in as if this is of peripheral importance compared to the results they yell about). The HIIT weight loss study (Tremblay et al) used the stationary bike. It would be interesting to see what the injury rates would be if they used running on the same subject pool (but they’d have a hard time even getting permission to do such a study) Cheers,

Uphill running has some similarities to cycling, as the knees come up higher. By doing bursts on an uphill, of which there are a few around here, you can pump as much as your lungs allow without skeletal injury. You then take your time getting back down, whether that was the plan or not. You find yourself running more from the forefoot, it adds spring to your step and it builds leg muscle of the sort that helps you run. Even mesomorphs can push their limits.

Response:

You’re trading skeletal injury risk for soft-tissue injury risk (achilles tendonitis, shinsplints). Choose your poison. Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

I’ trying to look for counter-points to this form of training and what better place to look then a runner’s ng. I’m talking about training where you sprint your ass off for 20 seconds, walk or jog of 15 seconds and sprint again, doing this for about 5 minutes. Of course including few minutes of warm up and cool down. I’ve read that in experiments where they compare both styles of exercise that those who exercise in HIIT gain not only of 10% anaerobic endurance but also 14% of aerobic endurance, meanwhile the medium intensity high duration people only gained 10% in aerobic endurance and naught in anaerobic. I have been running for a few months, and do notice an overall increase in endurance when I play other sports, but stairs still suck the life out of me as much as they did even before I use to run. I usually 2-4 times a week for about 80 minutes. This is what I have read on HIIT so far… http://www.buildleanmuscle.com/interval-training.html http://www.teenbodybuilding.com/justin6.htm http://www.cs.unm.edu/~wneumann/files/guerilla_cardio.pdf Thanks

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