Run Run Away » running trail » Road Rage Incident
Road Rage Incident
Question:
Check out the local Galyans stores. They may have "bear spray", although I would think it simply has a higher concentration of pepper or cs than the people spray. You may find that the active ingredients are the same and can use the people spray. Galyans is great. They also have their own brand of coolmax wear, good quality and cheaper than the name brand stuff.
You’re right about Galyans. I just bought some of their coolmax wear, and it is wonderful. I’ll check there for the spray. Thanks, Michelle
Response:
Michelle, I went to school in the UP (Houghton) for 4 years. The bears there are black bears, not grizzlys. I ran into several on the trails during runs, one at only 10-20 yards. They just turned tail and ran and I’ve never heard of them doing anything differently to runners. The only exception I can imagine is if you get between mommy and her cubs. I advise simply making noise as you run, such as singing/talking to a running partner. No need to get spray or be afraid for your life. Michigan bears are very timid
Andy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is the grizzly bear spray difficult to find? We’ll be vacationing in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula for the last two weeks in July. I’ve been told that there are many bears in this area and have been concerned about how this will affect my running. I’m in the habit of carrying pepper spray on every run anyway. I didn’t realize until I read this post that they made a special spray for bears. I live in the Indianapolis area. Could I purchase this locally or through mail order? Michelle
Response:
Is the grizzly bear spray difficult to find? We’ll be vacationing in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula for the last two weeks in July. I’ve been told that there are many bears in this area and have been concerned about how this will affect my running. I’m in the habit of carrying pepper spray on every run anyway. I didn’t realize until I read this post that they made a special spray for bears. I live in the Indianapolis area. Could I purchase this locally or through mail order?
I live in Calgary, where everyone is willing to share bear advice. Here’s what I have gathered from the various sources: – Bear spray works most of the time, but only at very close quarters (less than 5 m) and as a last resort. – Park Wardens in the Nat Parks here carry it — that’s good enough for me! – If you do carry it, learn how to use it first, and make sure it is easily accessible (not in a rucksack). – It is the same substance as the pepper spray you can buy for use against humans in the US, but comes in much bigger cans. Even these big cans only last 5-6 seconds. The human version is not going to help you faced with a bear. – as far as I know, you won’t meet a grizzly in Michigan, but you might meet a black bear. They’re much the same only more common, can be predatory, and must be fought if they attack (don’t play dead and definitely don’t climb a tree). – the most effective way of avoiding a close encounter with a bear is to always travel in a group — apparently attacks on groups of 4 or more have never been recorded; in some parts of Alberta, however, at least 6 is recommended. – you’re only likely to get into trouble if you surprise a bear. Avoid doing this by looking for signs of bears (scat, digging, tree-scratching), moving rapidly away from animal carcasses, and making plenty of noise. (And don’t wear a personal stereo — a female athlete was fatally mauled in Canada last year whilst running in the forest listening to music) – check with local park rangers, who will know about recent sightings, encounters, or path closures. – FYI, a 225 g (small) can of bear spray costs around US$40-50, with holster (e.g. at www.selfdefence.com, or use AltaVista to search for ‘bear spray’) – Bear spray should not be carried onto aircraft, and I believe it’s illegal to bring it into Canada from the US (or the US from Canada; because of the labelling) Bottom line advice from me is, always go out with other people and you can almost completely relax. Remember that bear maulings are very, very rare, so don’t let it spoil your trip. I am possibly over-cautious — I see lots of people out in Banff park alone, and most of them seem to come back… Cheers, Matt
Response:
That was my first thought. What’s the point? Do you really think that yelling at a hot car burning rubber is going to slow them down? MDW
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You should not shout at strangers. Obviously the driver took offence. He reaction is "who do you think you are shouting at me ?" That’s when it turned ugly, Unless you are a super hero or a Rambo, don’t try to tell stangers what to do unless they ask you (like in this newsgroup ) !. They will then be oblidged to tell you what to do especially if they are "bigger" ! I think I’d better go now.
Response:
Now that you mention that. Ever hear someone with a real loud Car Stereo. The joke I’ve heard about it, is instead of them playing music like an Ice cream truck, they run their car stereos real loud as if they are saying "I’ve got drugs." While that might not be true, I certainly wouldn’t try to tell one of those people to turn it down. I think if I even asked them for ear plugs it might be too much. I did however get one person to turn his car stereo down. What I did was held my cell phone out the window and then the guy in the car turned his stereo down and said something like: "What are you doing?" I replied: "I was only trying to see if my brother could hear you." ;-) Turn out my brother couldn’t. I’ll bet that is because phones don’t have a real good frequency response and they can not transmit the bass notes. Thanks, Roger BTW 5k this weekend. I’ll be shooting for my second sub 21. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That was my first thought. What’s the point? Do you really think that yelling at a hot car burning rubber is going to slow them down? MDW
Response:
You forgot one: Making noise. The bear appreciates it if you don’t surprise it. If you let it know you’re coming, the bear can prepare a nice au jus sauce (or perhaps a BEARNAISE) to complement you. This is good advice if you’re intent on blasting down the trail at information-age speed and are so enamored by the vistas that you aren’t aware of the bear that ducked into the nearby brush when you announced your arrival. We tend to do that because we think we’re the top dog
You seem to think you know a lot about how we hike. everywhere and it’s fun to brag about how we hiked 18 miles in 6 hours carrying a 60-lb backpack, gaining and losing 4000 feet in elevation. Providing, of course, that we don’t barge into the area between momma bear and her cubs.)
The idea is to make some sound so no one gets surprised. Look, I didn’t make this up: all the park pamphlets recommend it. At least they did that summer. I wonder how much more we’d see if we strolled casually (and quietly) down the trail to, say, that first campsite about 5 miles in, allowing our awareness (and awareness of us) to flow gently down the trail ahead of us. Wildlife does not flee from those ambling along with no particular intent as it does from those crashing down the trail at urban-life noise level….
I don’t see how using one’s natural voice comes close to "urban-life noise level." Strolling along singing and grooving on nature are not mutually exclusive notions. Remember those wacky Von Trapps, frolicking and singing? Even with the whole clan trilling, they noticed how alive are the hills. On the other hand, in the case of bears, perhaps we *want* them to flee…
You don’t say? Sheesh. We’re getting all picked on and no one pointed out how funny the bearnaise sauce joke is. Buncha mother-nature lovin’ tree huggers.
Response:
You forgot one: Making noise. The bear appreciates it if you don’t surprise it. If you let it know you’re coming, the bear can prepare a nice au jus sauce (or perhaps a BEARNAISE) to complement you. Seriously, making noise as you make your way through the woods is an oft-recommended technique for avoiding bear encounters. The theory is that when they hear you coming, the bears decide that you’re annoying/uninteresting/maybe a little scary and will wander away. Some hikers attach a bell to their packs that rings as they walk; I once sang and hummed my way through a solo hike in the Tetons. I sing badly. Even the bugs didn’t bite.
This is good advice if you’re intent on blasting down the trail at information-age speed and are so enamored by the vistas that you aren’t aware of the bear that ducked into the nearby brush when you announced your arrival. We tend to do that because we think we’re the top dog everywhere and it’s fun to brag about how we hiked 18 miles in 6 hours carrying a 60-lb backpack, gaining and losing 4000 feet in elevation. Providing, of course, that we don’t barge into the area between momma bear and her cubs.) I wonder how much more we’d see if we strolled casually (and quietly) down the trail to, say, that first campsite about 5 miles in, allowing our awareness (and awareness of us) to flow gently down the trail ahead of us. Wildlife does not flee from those ambling along with no particular intent as it does from those crashing down the trail at urban-life noise level…. On the other hand, in the case of bears, perhaps we *want* them to flee…
Response:
Is the grizzly bear spray difficult to find?
Check with your local camping store. The UP will probably be a better place to look than Indianapolis. We’ll be vacationing in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula for the last two weeks in July. I’ve been told that there are many bears in this area and have been concerned about how this will affect my running.
Try to run in a developed area. Training runs in the wilderness, well… it may come as a surprise to some of the local denizens of the forest… some of whom don’t like surprises. At the very least, hike your prospective running trail a time or two first to give the local population time to adjust to your presence. By the way, does the UP have grizzly bears or black bears? Black bears are not quite as dangerous as grizzlies. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m in the habit of carrying pepper spray on every run anyway. I didn’t realize until I read this post that they made a special spray for bears. I live in the Indianapolis area. Could I purchase this locally or through mail order? Michelle
Response:
What’s the difference between Black Bear and Grizzly scat? Black bear scat has berries and nuts in it, while Grizzly scat has little bells in it. Troy Some hikers attach a bell to their packs that rings as they walk; I once sang and hummed my way through a solo hike in the Tetons. I sing badly. Even the bugs didn’t bite.
http://community.webtv.net/tmacrun/AppalachianTrail
Response:
By the way, does the UP have grizzly bears or black bears? Black bears are not quite as dangerous as grizzlies.
You know how you can tell if you’re being chased by a grizzly or a black bear? Climb up a tree. If it knocks the tree down and eats you it was a grizzly, if it climbs the tree after you and eats you it was a black bear.
(Going to Alaska next week, so probably should be worried about bears, but I’m more worried I won’t see any!) — Asya Kamsky I will complete a marathon and raise $5000 for the SF AIDS Foundation, Dec 9, 2001, Honolulu, Hawaii. Sponsor me! For more information see http://www.things.org/~asya/why.html
Response:
This morning while I was walking I had my worst incident with a road
raged driver that I’ve had in 27 years of running/racewalking. I had just started out from my girlfriend’s place at about 7 a.m. and had been walking for about a minute when a yellow Mustang came toward me burning rubber trying to drive as fast as he could. I waved my arms in the "slow down" gesture and yelled at him to slow down. A few seconds later I heard the screeching of brakes and saw him turn around. My first thought was to get his license number, but what happened next occured so fast that I was unable to get it. The driver went about 50 yards past me, got out of his car and started running toward me and said "Get ready to throw down boy, I’m going to kick your ass". I didn’t say anything, I turned around and started running as fast as I could. I’ve always thought that I could outrun just about anyone in this situation but to my shock he was gaining on me and repeatedly saying he was going to kick my ass. Fortunately, after 100 yards or so he gave up the chase. I made a detour through a wooded area so he wouldn’t know exactly where I was going. I went back to my girlfriends and called 911 to report it. A sheriff’s deputy came and took my report but said there wasn’t much they could do since I didn’t get the license number. I also told him that since they had widened and repaved that road in the past year it has turned into a drag strip. The officer said that he was well aware of it but its hard to patrol it because there aren’t any places for them to conceal themselves. After the deputy left I drove back to my place which is in a more pedestrian friendly residential area to walk. I felt very vulnerable and at one point I hid behind a building because I saw a car coming that looked like the one that came after me. I figure that the punk that assaulted me had probably been out all night and was probably drunk and was driving around looking for trouble. I learned a lesson today and I think I’ll stick to walking in more pedestrian-friendly areas for a while.<<< Pepper spray. Especially the kind that leaves a stain that shows under UV. Saves you from having to pick out the assailant in a lineup. My friend Bob prefers the spray they make for grizzly bears. We got some at Glacier National Park, then brought it back to Rockville, Maryland, where the really dangerous predators lurk. One blast puts them on the ground. Then you can send the next one right up their nose…
Response:
Hmmm. US post. In England we get road rage, but we have bigger letters and numbers on our licence plates so we can read ‘em for miles, and we’re not allowed to carry pepper spray. You are SO lucky you can run fast – I would have been up s**t creek without a paddle! I would have run straight up to the nearest door and sought refuge.
Response:
Hello Sean, I live in Kalamazoo, Michigan, which is one of the most pedestrian-unfriendly places in the United States. There are very few trails or bike lanes here and pedestrians get very little respect. After this incident I told my girlfriend that I didn’t think I should walk from her place anymore because she lives in an area that is becoming very over-developed with more and more traffic and few sidewalks. When we go on trips we are amazed at how much better it is for pedestrians and cyclists. David Dunn
Response:
Hmmm. US post. In England we get road rage, but we have bigger letters and numbers on our licence plates so we can read ‘em for miles, and we’re not allowed to carry pepper spray. You are SO lucky you can run fast – I would have been up s**t creek without a paddle! I would have run straight up to the nearest door and sought refuge.
Actually, I’d have told him that he was already an a$$hole, and asked him if he wanted to become a felon as well. A maimed felon…
Response:
Hello Sean, I live in Kalamazoo, Michigan, which is one of the most pedestrian-unfriendly places in the United States. There are very few trails or bike lanes here and pedestrians get very little respect. After this incident I told my girlfriend that I didn’t think I should walk from her place anymore because she lives in an area that is becoming very over-developed with more and more traffic and few sidewalks. When we go on trips we are amazed at how much better it is for pedestrians and cyclists. David Dunn
Well, I probably can speak for a nasty few others here who would LOVE to have been in your shoes just once. If I am passing through someday, maybe we can go running (at my age-reduced speed) and hope that he shows up again. I fight a lot better than I run and that doofus would be the horizontal subject of a citizen’s arrest. Pissed off in Noo Yawk, Ken (NY) — Chairperson, Department of Redundancy Department An officer is assaulted every 7 minutes, one is injured every 2.5 hours, and one is KILLED every other day. 99 Percent Of Lawyers Give The Rest A Bad Name No trees were harmed to bring you this e-Presentation… For the spam search bots:
Response:
My friend Bob prefers the spray they make for grizzly bears. We got some at Glacier National Park, then brought it back to Rockville, Maryland, where the really dangerous predators lurk. One blast puts them on the ground. Then you can send the next one right up their nose…
Is the grizzly bear spray difficult to find? We’ll be vacationing in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula for the last two weeks in July. I’ve been told that there are many bears in this area and have been concerned about how this will affect my running. I’m in the habit of carrying pepper spray on every run anyway. I didn’t realize until I read this post that they made a special spray for bears. I live in the Indianapolis area. Could I purchase this locally or through mail order? Michelle
Response:
Michelle, Check out the local Galyans stores. They may have "bear spray", although I would think it simply has a higher concentration of pepper or cs than the people spray. You may find that the active ingredients are the same and can use the people spray. Galyans is great. They also have their own brand of coolmax wear, good quality and cheaper than the name brand stuff. Best wishes, Leo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My friend Bob prefers the spray they make for grizzly bears. We got some at Glacier National Park, then brought it back to Rockville, Maryland, where the really dangerous predators lurk. One blast puts them on the ground. Then you can send the next one right up their nose… Is the grizzly bear spray difficult to find? We’ll be vacationing in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula for the last two weeks in July. I’ve been told that there are many bears in this area and have been concerned about how this will affect my running. I’m in the habit of carrying pepper spray on every run anyway. I didn’t realize until I read this post that they made a special spray for bears. I live in the Indianapolis area. Could I purchase this locally or through mail order? Michelle
Response:
My friend Bob prefers the spray they make for grizzly bears. We got some at Glacier National Park, then brought it back to Rockville, Maryland, where the really dangerous predators lurk. One blast puts them on the ground. Then you can send the next one right up their nose… Is the grizzly bear spray difficult to find? We’ll be vacationing in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula for the last two weeks in July. I’ve been told that there are many bears in this area and have been concerned about how this will affect my running. I’m in the habit of carrying pepper spray on every run anyway. I didn’t realize until I read this post that they made a special spray for bears.
I think that it’s not so ’special’ – just bigger can, greater flow rate, greater distance. The payload carries a certain amount of risk, though. It’s best not to carry it in the passenger compartment of a car, for example. Bear spray is illegal to carry as baggage on commercial airlines. If you fly in a light plane, be SURE to tell the pilot you have it. Maybe he’ll make you leave it, or maybe he’ll have vented storage somewhere. Depends. I live in the Indianapolis area. Could I purchase this locally or through mail order?
Try "bear spray" in the Web search engine of your choice. The best bear protections remain: 1.) staying aware of your surroundings, 2.) using your head, and 3.) having a slow friend. Cheers, Fred Klingener
Response:
–On Tuesday, June 26, 2001 11:02 AM -0400 Fred Klingener The best bear protections remain: 1.) staying aware of your surroundings, 2.) using your head, and 3.) having a slow friend.
You forgot one: Making noise. The bear appreciates it if you don’t surprise it. If you let it know you’re coming, the bear can prepare a nice au jus sauce (or perhaps a BEARNAISE) to complement you. Seriously, making noise as you make your way through the woods is an oft-recommended technique for avoiding bear encounters. The theory is that when they hear you coming, the bears decide that you’re annoying/uninteresting/maybe a little scary and will wander away. Some hikers attach a bell to their packs that rings as they walk; I once sang and hummed my way through a solo hike in the Tetons. I sing badly. Even the bugs didn’t bite.
Response:
This is the perfect reason for carrying personal pepper spray when you run/bike/etc… you never know who is going to be offended by absolutely nothing…
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The law can get pretty frustrating, eh? While someone is being chased down the road by a drunk hooligan they’re expected to read six small numbers on the back of a car from a distance and get away from him at the same time? I’m lucky that wasn’t me in that situation because I probably would have tried to humiliate him. (Not by fighting him, mind ya…) It’s a darn good thing you got out of there quickly…Where exactly do you live? Sean Chester Peaceful Vancouver Island, Canada This morning while I was walking I had my worst incident with a road raged driver that I’ve had in 27 years of running/racewalking. I had just started out from my girlfriend’s place at about 7 a.m. and had been walking for about a minute when a yellow Mustang came toward me burning rubber trying to drive as fast as he could. I waved my arms in the "slow down" gesture and yelled at him to slow down. A few seconds later I heard the screeching of brakes and saw him turn around. My first thought was to get his license number, but what happened next occured so fast that I was unable to get it. The driver went about 50 yards past me, got out of his car and started running toward me and said "Get ready to throw down boy, I’m going to kick your ass". I didn’t say anything, I turned around and started running as fast as I could. I’ve always thought that I could outrun just about anyone in this situation but to my shock he was gaining on me and repeatedly saying he was going to kick my ass. Fortunately, after 100 yards or so he gave up the chase. I made a detour through a wooded area so he wouldn’t know exactly where I was going. I went back to my girlfriends and called 911 to report it. A sheriff’s deputy came and took my report but said there wasn’t much they could do since I didn’t get the license number. I also told him that since they had widened and repaved that road in the past year it has turned into a drag strip. The officer said that he was well aware of it but its hard to patrol it because there aren’t any places for them to conceal themselves. After the deputy left I drove back to my place which is in a more pedestrian friendly residential area to walk. I felt very vulnerable and at one point I hid behind a building because I saw a car coming that looked like the one that came after me. I figure that the punk that assaulted me had probably been out all night and was probably drunk and was driving around looking for trouble. I learned a lesson today and I think I’ll stick to walking in more pedestrian-friendly areas for a while. David Dunn
Response:
You should not shout at strangers. Obviously the driver took offence. He reaction is "who do you think you are shouting at me ?" That’s when it turned ugly, Unless you are a super hero or a Rambo, don’t try to tell stangers what to do unless they ask you (like in this newsgroup ) !. They will then be oblidged to tell you what to do especially if they are "bigger" ! I think I’d better go now.
Response:
Sounds like that guy might have just watched "Fast and Furious." Too bad I can’t say anything about the movie, other than I’ll see it again when it comes out on video. Roger
Response:
The law can get pretty frustrating, eh? While someone is being chased down the road by a drunk hooligan they’re expected to read six small numbers on the back of a car from a distance and get away from him at the same time? I’m lucky that wasn’t me in that situation because I probably would have tried to humiliate him. (Not by fighting him, mind ya…) It’s a darn good thing you got out of there quickly…Where exactly do you live? Sean Chester Peaceful Vancouver Island, Canada – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This morning while I was walking I had my worst incident with a road raged driver that I’ve had in 27 years of running/racewalking. I had just started out from my girlfriend’s place at about 7 a.m. and had been walking for about a minute when a yellow Mustang came toward me burning rubber trying to drive as fast as he could. I waved my arms in the "slow down" gesture and yelled at him to slow down. A few seconds later I heard the screeching of brakes and saw him turn around. My first thought was to get his license number, but what happened next occured so fast that I was unable to get it. The driver went about 50 yards past me, got out of his car and started running toward me and said "Get ready to throw down boy, I’m going to kick your ass". I didn’t say anything, I turned around and started running as fast as I could. I’ve always thought that I could outrun just about anyone in this situation but to my shock he was gaining on me and repeatedly saying he was going to kick my ass. Fortunately, after 100 yards or so he gave up the chase. I made a detour through a wooded area so he wouldn’t know exactly where I was going. I went back to my girlfriends and called 911 to report it. A sheriff’s deputy came and took my report but said there wasn’t much they could do since I didn’t get the license number. I also told him that since they had widened and repaved that road in the past year it has turned into a drag strip. The officer said that he was well aware of it but its hard to patrol it because there aren’t any places for them to conceal themselves. After the deputy left I drove back to my place which is in a more pedestrian friendly residential area to walk. I felt very vulnerable and at one point I hid behind a building because I saw a car coming that looked like the one that came after me. I figure that the punk that assaulted me had probably been out all night and was probably drunk and was driving around looking for trouble. I learned a lesson today and I think I’ll stick to walking in more pedestrian-friendly areas for a while. David Dunn
Response:
This morning while I was walking I had my worst incident with a road raged driver that I’ve had in 27 years of running/racewalking. I had just started out from my girlfriend’s place at about 7 a.m. and had been walking for about a minute when a yellow Mustang came toward me burning rubber trying to drive as fast as he could. I waved my arms in the "slow down" gesture and yelled at him to slow down. A few seconds later I heard the screeching of brakes and saw him turn around. My first thought was to get his license number, but what happened next occured so fast that I was unable to get it. The driver went about 50 yards past me, got out of his car and started running toward me and said "Get ready to throw down boy, I’m going to kick your ass". I didn’t say anything, I turned around and started running as fast as I could. I’ve always thought that I could outrun just about anyone in this situation but to my shock he was gaining on me and repeatedly saying he was going to kick my ass. Fortunately, after 100 yards or so he gave up the chase. I made a detour through a wooded area so he wouldn’t know exactly where I was going. I went back to my girlfriends and called 911 to report it. A sheriff’s deputy came and took my report but said there wasn’t much they could do since I didn’t get the license number. I also told him that since they had widened and repaved that road in the past year it has turned into a drag strip. The officer said that he was well aware of it but its hard to patrol it because there aren’t any places for them to conceal themselves. After the deputy left I drove back to my place which is in a more pedestrian friendly residential area to walk. I felt very vulnerable and at one point I hid behind a building because I saw a car coming that looked like the one that came after me. I figure that the punk that assaulted me had probably been out all night and was probably drunk and was driving around looking for trouble. I learned a lesson today and I think I’ll stick to walking in more pedestrian-friendly areas for a while. David Dunn
Response:
Man, oh man!! Wow…. what a tale. That’s crazy… lucky you didn’t get hurt. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This morning while I was walking I had my worst incident with a road raged driver that I’ve had in 27 years of running/racewalking. I had just started out from my girlfriend’s place at about 7 a.m. and had been walking for about a minute when a yellow Mustang came toward me burning rubber trying to drive as fast as he could. I waved my arms in the "slow down" gesture and yelled at him to slow down. A few seconds later I heard the screeching of brakes and saw him turn around. My first thought was to get his license number, but what happened next occured so fast that I was unable to get it. The driver went about 50 yards past me, got out of his car and started running toward me and said "Get ready to throw down boy, I’m going to kick your ass". I didn’t say anything, I turned around and started running as fast as I could. I’ve always thought that I could outrun just about anyone in this situation but to my shock he was gaining on me and repeatedly saying he was going to kick my ass. Fortunately, after 100 yards or so he gave up the chase. I made a detour through a wooded area so he wouldn’t know exactly where I was going. I went back to my girlfriends and called 911 to report it. A sheriff’s deputy came and took my report but said there wasn’t much they could do since I didn’t get the license number. I also told him that since they had widened and repaved that road in the past year it has turned into a drag strip. The officer said that he was well aware of it but its hard to patrol it because there aren’t any places for them to conceal themselves. After the deputy left I drove back to my place which is in a more pedestrian friendly residential area to walk. I felt very vulnerable and at one point I hid behind a building because I saw a car coming that looked like the one that came after me. I figure that the punk that assaulted me had probably been out all night and was probably drunk and was driving around looking for trouble. I learned a lesson today and I think I’ll stick to walking in more pedestrian-friendly areas for a while. David Dunn