Run Run Away

Question:

You wish or :/ snip DONG, Only those that have seen me in the shower call me this. — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

– Regards, Dave

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And if I am not able to run outside(cold or raining) or need to run without impact, I use the elpatic mechine. (like now, I can only run 10-15 min on the elpetic b/c of doctor’s orders) is that the same workout as runnning outside if I do it for the scheduled amount of distance or time. … Anyone want to take a shot other than the obvious less impact?

Shiva, I can’t address your specific question about the ellipical since I’ve never seen one, but you may find some useful thoughts on cross-training in general in the thread "Bloody rest didn’t work" Feb 8, 2002, started by Jarno Hellstrom (I’m giving the dates since it’s expired from my news server but can be found through Google search.) There’s many good comments in that thread, but between Feb 11 and Feb14, there’s a discussion with Doug of how to deal with scheduling / logging / crediting cross-training – with the aim of not overdoing something in cross-training but also strengthening weak links. What prompted the discussion was how to account for (adjust?) workout times, both in terms of building strength but also in not over-doing something, when running in varying snow conditions is the norm, rather than the exception (I’m in Alaska.). Short version: Your current question may just concern aerobic conditioning on the elliptical right now, and presumably your doctor is working with you on injury recovery. But keep in mind that running involves many systems – aerobic, muscles, tendons, ligaments, etc. Each needs to be strengthened but not overdone. There may be things that the elliptical is not doing that running does. This is the specificity principle. Good luck! Dot

Response:

I don’t workout at the gym and run on the same day. I also don’t do leg workouts at the gym and run the next day or day before b/c both days are on the same body part. I would do upper body the day before and day after a running day.

I think most will agree this is the best way to lift and run. And if I am not able to run outside(cold or raining) or need to run without impact, I use the elpatic mechine. (like now, I can only run 10-15 min on the elpetic b/c of doctor’s orders) is that the same workout as runnning outside if I do it for the scheduled amount of distance or time.

Sorry, I missed this question. I will have to yield to others to understand how running and an elliptical trainer compare or differ. Anyone want to take a shot other than the obvious less impact? DONG,

Only those that have seen me in the shower call me this. — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Doug, thanks again for the advice, I am learning alot. This is too hard to take a guess. Are you trying to hit the gym and run on the same day?  Are you working your legs hard in the gym such as weights or stairmaster and then running on tired legs the same or next day?  Etc, etc…. I don’t workout at the gym and run on the same day. I also don’t do leg workouts at the gym and run the next day or day before b/c both days are on the same body part. I would do upper body the day before and day after a running day. And if I am not able to run outside(cold or raining) or need to run without impact, I use the elpatic mechine. (like now, I can only run 10-15 min on the elpetic b/c of doctor’s orders) is that the same workout as runnning outsideif I do it for the scheduled amount of distance or time. I run on a running trail its like a samll street which is more flat than running on the street’s bike lane. thank you shiva

DONG, thanks again for all the advice, its very important for me. you don’t see the above posting. please advice on that topic. thank you Shiva

Response:

That gives me some hope  - that I might recover quicker in my mid 50’s than when I was begining running at 49

Rock on, you are getting stronger!!! — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

Response:

David, I am in my early 20s, I am recovering slow for my age.

In general there is more resilience in youth but recovery is more a byproduct of conditioning than age. If for your 20 years you have participated in very few activities that involve your legs like basketball, soccer, etc., your muscles will need more time to strengthen and adjust.  OTOH, if you are starting out older 40+ recovery is usually a slower process. — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

Response:

David, I am in my early 20s, I am recovering slow for my age. thanks Shiva – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As well as listening to Doug’s excellent advice, remember that your age has a great deal to do with how fast you recover.

Response:

That gives me some hope  - that I might recover quicker in my mid 50’s than when I was begining running at 49 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David, I am in my early 20s, I am recovering slow for my age. In general there is more resilience in youth but recovery is more a byproduct of conditioning than age. If for your 20 years you have participated in very few activities that involve your legs like basketball, soccer, etc., your muscles will need more time to strengthen and adjust.  OTOH, if you are starting out older 40+ recovery is usually a slower process. — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

– Regards, Dave

Response:

Doug, thanks again for the advice, I am learning alot. This is too hard to take a guess. Are you trying to hit the gym and run on the same day?  Are you working your legs hard in the gym such as weights or stairmaster and then running on tired legs the same or next day?  Etc, etc….

I don’t workout at the gym and run on the same day. I also don’t do leg workouts at the gym and run the next day or day before b/c both days are on the same body part. I would do upper body the day before and day after a running day. And if I am not able to run outside(cold or raining) or need to run without impact, I use the elpatic mechine. (like now, I can only run 10-15 min on the elpetic b/c of doctor’s orders) is that the same workout as runnning outsideif I do it for the scheduled amount of distance or time. I run on a running trail its like a samll street which is more flat than running on the street’s bike lane. thank you shiva

Response:

As well as listening to Doug’s excellent advice, remember that your age has a great deal to do with how fast you recover. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got injuried in october when I was training for a 1/2 marathon, I made a lot of mistakes b/c I am beginner, I increased my miles too fast(10 miles in september to about 50 miles in october, I did not run all of it and I did not cross train) and I ran on the street where the surface is not flat. I got tendinitis of my lower leg and knee as well as plantar fasciits. that was back in october, now i am better(80-85 % better) but still going to the doctor but I feel that maybe i don’t have good biomechanics or something. does it usually take this long to heal from injuries and is normal for runners to end up with so many injuries at onces. what does this mean for  my running future, should I forget about marathons and 1/2 marathons? how should I train? thank you Shiva

– Regards, Dave

Response:

You have the rest of your life to run so try patience(adj) and not be a patient(noun). ~~~~~~` Great advice, Doug.  But…errr… patience is a noun and patient is also

noun. And for that matter patient can also be an adjetive and a noun, i.e. "be patient" vs. "be a patient." So Doug meant to say: "Be patient(adj) not a patient(noun)." I like it. — Eduardo Suastegui "Test everything; Hold on to the good." (Remove 701 when replying via e-mail)

Response:

I also looked in to runner’s world, they only have programs that have 4 or more days of running. I can only run 2 to 3 days a week (so they did not help me) and on the

All those training schedules are guidelines and not Bibles. Take one that has 4 days and modify it for three. If it means you have one more zero day, fine.  Since your mileage will be less, factor in your increases per your total mileage. Error on the conservative side.. other days I workout at the gym. how many days do I need to take off from all kinds of training a week?

This is too hard to take a guess. Are you trying to hit the gym and run on the same day?  Are you working your legs hard in the gym such as weights or stairmaster and then running on tired legs the same or next day?  Etc, etc…. what are the rules/guidelines that training programs should have? for example I know I shouldn’t run everyday,

At first this is probably best especially with some injury background already. increase mileage 5 to 10% both daily and weekly.

5% at best and weekly number with a pattern that might be – increase, increase, hold, increase, increase, hold. Those hold weeks allow your body to catch up. what else do I look for in training programs so I can make sure it is a good program for me.

Another good question that can only be answered with general terms. One that advocates a slow growth and keeps you injury free. I know vague but worry less about the mileage and more on staying injury free. Even with a 5% growth rate you will soon get to some significant numbers if that is your goal. and I also know now that no training programs is made for me so I have to change it to fit my life. I want to be able to change the training programs around so they fit me, how do I do that?

Look at the program and try to understand what it is doing. Note hard/easy patterns with mileage or intensity. At this point you should be looking to build a base. if you find a program that covers track workouts or hill repeats stay away. Build a base aka a strong foundation. Once you have base then you can opt, if you want, to add hills and/or speed. — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

Response:

Doug and Mary, thank you very much for the advice, I really needed it. I am not running now and will not untill I get better, I am cross training at the gym by going on the elaptic, bike, and strength training, 4 to 6 times a week. I did not have much guidence to begin with, I got alot of books but I was not able find a good training program for my needs so I got my training program from the web, asimba.com but it was not a good one. I also looked in to runner’s world, they only have programs that have 4 or more days of running. I can only run 2 to 3 days a week (so they did not help me) and on the other days I workout at the gym. how many days do I need to take off from all kinds of training a week? what are the rules/guidelines that training programs should have? for example I know I shouldn’t run everyday, increase mileage 5 to 10% both daily and weekly. what else do I look for in training programs so I can make sure it is a good program for me. and I also know now that no training programs is made for me so I have to change it to fit my life. I want to be able to change the training programs around so they fit me, how do I do that? thanks for all the great advice in advance Shiva

Response:

I got injuried in october when I was training for a 1/2 marathon, I made a lot of mistakes b/c I am beginner, I increased my miles too fast(10 miles in september to about 50 miles in october, I did not run all of it and I did not cross train) and I ran on the street where the surface is not flat. I got tendinitis of my lower leg and knee as well as plantar fasciits. that was back in october, now i am better(80-85 % better) but still going to the doctor but I feel that maybe i don’t have good biomechanics or something. does it usually take this long to heal from injuries and is normal for runners to end up with so many injuries at onces. what does this mean for  my running future, should I forget about marathons and 1/2 marathons? how should I train? thank you Shiva

Response:

I got injuried in october when I was training for a 1/2 marathon, I made a lot of mistakes b/c I am beginner, I increased my miles too fast(10 miles in september to about 50 miles in october, I did not run all of it and I did not cross train) and I ran on the street where the surface is not flat. I got tendinitis of my lower leg and knee as well as plantar fasciits. that was back in october, now i am better(80-85 % better) but still going to the doctor but I feel that maybe i don’t have good biomechanics or something. does it usually take this long to heal from injuries and is normal for runners to end up with so many injuries at onces.

Impossible to answer. You simply abused the hell out of yourself over a short time. From 10 to 50 miles in two months. Either you thought you were invincible or you had no guidance. You know the first is not true and only you know the answer to the second. The first thing you need to do is get healed. This will mean either backing way down or stop running. Then you need ramp up at a much slower rate like maybe 5%(many knew I was going to get this in). Take a look at http://www.runnersworld.com/ and look into training plans and find a conservative plan. Once you get into a more conservative plan and build a slow base, you will find if you have any other problems. Once you get a base of 25-30 miles of injury free base then think about a 1/2 marathon with a 4 to 6 month build up. You have the rest of your life to run so try patience(adj) and not be a patient(noun). — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

Response:

You have the rest of your life to run so try patience(adj) and not be a patient(noun).

~~~~~~` Great advice, Doug.  But…errr… patience is a noun and patient is also noun.  We knew what you meant.  However, the editor in me cries out to catch this (someone else will, if I don’t).  Now, if you would have said, "The patient must be  a patient runner," then you would be demonstrating the difference between the two parts of speech.  Nevertheless, excellent advice, and one we need to be reminded of.  As always, thank you (and no, I never can keep straight if the quotation mark goes before the comma or after it.  I didn’t say I was perfect). Mary

Response:

You have the rest of your life to run so try patience(adj) and not be a patient(noun). ~~~~~~` Great advice, Doug.  But…errr… patience is a noun and patient is also noun.

I really do know the difference but I had spelled the patient wrong and selected the wrong correct word from spell check. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. As always, thank you (and no, I never can keep straight if the quotation mark goes before the comma or after it.  I didn’t say I was perfect).

Yes you did. If you caught me with a wrong comma and a quote I claim I rely on visual rather than what is correct. I do have an English handbook but it is as old as me and written on a stone. How is your patience with your foot? — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

Response: