Run Run Away » running trail

Great Smoky running ?

admin — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Thanks for the tips folks – I’ll give them a try.

Response:

I was going to run Cades Cove but it takes about 1 hour to get there from Gatlinberg. Longer if you are staying east of town. It would be a nice place to run though. Wednesday and Saturday mornings til 10:00a.m. are closed to motor traffic so that bikers and walkers/runners can have the run of the place. The loop is 11 miles.

Response:

I am planning a few days in Gatlinburg next week. I’ve never been there before. Can someone recommend some places to run in the park? I’ll likely have some time to run while the wife goes shopping or something. I know there’s plenty of trails availible, but I’m not much of a trail runner. I’d be interested in somewhere relatively smooth (that is, few tree roots, rocks, etc. to deal with) that I could keep a decent pace while enjoying the outdoors. Something in the 3 to 13 mile distance would suit me. Any advice?

I’ve been to the Smokies several times. However, I’m a relatively new runner, so I haven’t discovered all the good areas for running. I discovered a good running trail this summer, however. For a short run, you can run out of gatlinburg into the park, about 100 yards into the wooded area there’s a road turning to your right back into town. Turn right on this little road, then on the left is a small trailhead. This trail will lead to the park visitor’s center. It’s 2 miles one way. Nice run, trail is smooth. Lots of other runners there. Sounds like a 4 miler would be short for you… Guess you could turn around and run it again…

Response:

I’m going up in about 3 weeks. Mecarey1 was right, the Greenbrier area is a good place to run. I’ve been to the area much and ran a few of the local races in the past. The last being Louise Mandrells run for the boy scouts a few years ago. It’s beautiful there so have fun!

Response:

Run around Cades Cove. Gorgeous run, and rolling bunny hills. Nice! Brian

Response:

Well, as luck would have it, I just returned from my first trip to Gatlinberg a couple of weeks ago. I would say that the trails, for the most part, would be tough to run on. On my last day there, I ran on the road that is at the Greenbrier entrance. It was perfect. If you start at the intersection of the entrance and run all the way to Ramsy’s Falls trail head and back, that is about 10.5 miles. I did not drive it, I just estimated base on my perceived pace. It is a beautiful run. The road runs along the Little Pigeon Creek. The beginning is paved but most is gravel. Very little traffic in the morning. Several bridges that go over rocky streams. It is mostly uphill going into the park. Once you get in the area, go to an information center and get a hiking map of the park. The Greenbrier entrance will be shown there. If memory serves, I think it is very near the intersection of the East Parkway and Rd 416. It is about 10 minutes east of Gatlinberg. Have a good time. Michael

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am planning a few days in Gatlinburg next week. I’ve never been there before. Can someone recommend some places to run in the park? I’ll likely have some time to run while the wife goes shopping or something. I know there’s plenty of trails availible, but I’m not much of a trail runner. I’d be interested in somewhere relatively smooth (that is, few tree roots, rocks, etc. to deal with) that I could keep a decent pace while enjoying the outdoors. Something in the 3 to 13 mile distance would suit me. Any advice?

Response:

Tracks in Manhattan

admin — Fri, 09 May 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I don’t live anywhere near New York but have had the pleasure of visiting there a few times. A fascinating city, I envy you being able to move there. Anyway when I was there it seemed there would be endless interesting places to run, central park, southside seaport, along broadway and on and on. Of course when old man winter hits you just can’t beat the caribbean.

I prefer running the frosty grounds, at least as long as there’s no additional inconvenience like a blizzard or a thick layer of icing. What I like most are the staring gazes of people in thick wintercoats when I pass them on a tempo-run in short-sleeved outfit (actually I’d usually wear 3 short-sleeved shirts in overlay, and in addition a pair of gloves, but it seems that doesn’t reduce the astonishment!) — Jos

Response:

but have had the pleasure of visiting there a few times.

My experience was quite different. Anyway when I was there it seemed there would be endless interesting places to run, central park, southside seaport, along broadway and on and on.

I was too bust vomiting from the poor air quality. I shit you not, the air is so bad it made me puke. So tell me, where are the benefits of running in that dirty of an enviro? You’d be healthier sitting at home breathing oxygen. Bill R. OO

Response:

I am getting ready to move to Manhattan and I was wondering if anyone knew where I can find a list of outdoor tracks in Manhattan. I am looking to do some supplemental speed training this summer and I would love to find a great track for it. I heard that there are some places along the Hudson River, but I am not sure where.

Response:

East River park, (north of Houston street on the east side of manhattan), has a track around the soccer field. The whole park has a running trail.

Response:

There is also a track near the East River, between the Manhattan and Brooklyn Bridges

Response:

Don’t forget Riverbank state park, ~145th and Riverside on the west side. Be prepared to hold your breath, though. –Ryan

Response:

Backadapack Report: Outback Distance Classic Half Marathon

admin — Sat, 30 Nov 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Event Name: Outback Distance Classic Time: 8:00 a.m. Distance: Half marathon & 6K Location: Jacksonville, Florida, USA Host: Outback Steak House / 1st Place Sports Benefit: Mandarin Food Bank Course Layout: Out-n-back with loops on each end Course Terrain: Flat, asphalt, rural/suburban streets Weather Conditions: 43F/XXC; clear and sunny; slight north wind Sociological (Fashion, fighting, foolery, and food): Fashion: All sorts from eskimo suits to shorts/singlets. A great deal of attire was discarded by mile 4. The race organizers had placed a few baskets long the route for runners to deposit their unneeded clothing and could pick it up after the run. We still saw gloves, shirts, hats, and scarfs along the road. Fighting: The start was more of a zoo than usual – the half folks and the 6K folks started at the same place and time. A little after mile 8 one guy stopped to walk without moving over to the side. This caused an effect in the following group that can only be described as the The Three Stooges Do Riverdance. No blood but many, many bad words. In a separate incident, a young woman slipped on some sand/gravel and went head first into the asphalt. Bloody but determined, she perservered. There is a tight, sharp turn 50 meters or so before the finish line. This turn is the scene of much road rash every year. This year was not different from past years. Foolery: Spectators at mile 3: "You’re almost there!" Usual signs with the wrong mileage on them. "Hey, my MP3 player is just playing the first few seconds of each song." "Yeah, it’s stuck on scan and I don’t know how to clear it." "Do you mean I’ll have to run the whole way without my music???" Food: "Free" (USA, light) beer, sports drinks, sodas, bagels, oranges, bananas, apples, sports bars, Gu (on the course). Personal Time: 2:12:20 gun time (2:11:45 watch time) Personal Pace: 10:06 Personal Place Overall (males): 653 out of 723 Personal Place Age Group (males): 98 out of 114 # of participants completing the course: 1224 (825 in the 6K) Winning Time: 1:04:52 (Zeph Joseph – he couldn’t accept the $1000US since he’s a student at UNF) Last Finisher: 3:15:03 Results URL: http://www.1stplacesports.com/obdc2002halfres.htm Newspaper article: http://www.times-union.com/tu-online/stories/112902/spo_11096103.shtml Comments: This was an event of firsts for me: first half marathon, first event that Susan’s son Chris ran with us, first use of something other than fluid during the event, and first nature call during an event (I’m so proud). I ran the 6K companion last year and enjoyed it. The half was a different beast but still just as enjoyable. Successes: finished my first half marathon, had a very good time and felt that way at the finish line, no injuries, came in under the 2:20 I expected, and am looking forward to the next half in two weeks. Disappointments: Absolutely none. Yeah, I know, 43F is a warm spell for some folks but it’s considered fairly cool around here. Most prerun conversation was about what kind of gear to wear. Layering seemed to be taken to a whole new level. I don’t know what the winning number of layers was but I did see one young woman shed 4 layers and still have several layers left. Two people tried the garbage bag trick with poor results ("Hey! Go Garbage Bag Man!"). I went with shorts and my cool weather singlet. I had a chance to talk with r.r’s Dr. Dickie but unfortunately didn’t see him afterward (he did very well). The announcer said, "OK, Runners. The signal will be Ready and the gun will fire."

Response:

Foolery: Spectators at mile 3: "You’re almost there!"

No, they probably meant from the start, or maybe they thought they were at another 5k. ;-) Personal Time: 2:12:20 gun time (2:11:45 watch time)

Awesome. It took me 3 half marathons to get down to that time. Comments: This was an event of firsts for me: first half marathon, first event that Susan’s son Chris ran with us, first use of something other than fluid during the event, and first nature call during an event (I’m so proud). I ran the 6K companion last year and enjoyed it. The half was a different beast but still just as enjoyable. Successes: finished my first half marathon, had a very good time and felt that way at the finish line, no injuries, came in under the 2:20 I expected, and am looking forward to the next half in two weeks. Disappointments: Absolutely none.

Congratulations on your first. But, it is how you feel the morning after… Yep, this running stuff is a little all right.

I don’t know if you could have said that if there wasn’t beer at the finish. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Splits: Mile Time MHR AHR gun to start :35 91 80 1 10:15 146 136 2 10:06 146 141 3 10:11 148 144 4 10:06 150 147 5 10:10 153 148 6 10:02 155 151 7 10:44 167 154 – nature break 8 9:02 171 167 – catch up 9 10:00 172 166 10 10:23 165 159 – water/Gu station 11 10:01 169 164 12 9:52 171 168 13 9:50 176 172 .1 :57 180 176

I’d be thrilled for splits that even. Maybe I should try that sometime. (My first 2000+ Polar Calorie run, too.)

Does that mean you have a CRM? Calorie Rate Monitor? Layne

Thanks for the report Layne. The rec.running report archives may be found at

http://kinder.cis.unf.edu/rec.running

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Event Name: Outback Distance Classic Time: 8:00 a.m. Distance: Half marathon & 6K Location: Jacksonville, Florida, USA Host: Outback Steak House / 1st Place Sports Benefit: Mandarin Food Bank Course Layout: Out-n-back with loops on each end Course Terrain: Flat, asphalt, rural/suburban streets Weather Conditions: 43F/XXC; clear and sunny; slight north wind Sociological (Fashion, fighting, foolery, and food): Fashion: All sorts from eskimo suits to shorts/singlets. A great deal of attire was discarded by mile 4. The race organizers had placed a few baskets long the route for runners to deposit their unneeded clothing and could pick it up after the run. We still saw gloves, shirts, hats, and scarfs along the road. Fighting: The start was more of a zoo than usual – the half folks and the 6K folks started at the same place and time. A little after mile 8 one guy stopped to walk without moving over to the side. This caused an effect in the following group that can only be described as the The Three Stooges Do Riverdance. No blood but many, many bad words. In a separate incident, a young woman slipped on some sand/gravel and went head first into the asphalt. Bloody but determined, she perservered. There is a tight, sharp turn 50 meters or so before the finish line. This turn is the scene of much road rash every year. This year was not different from past years. Foolery: Spectators at mile 3: "You’re almost there!" Usual signs with the wrong mileage on them. "Hey, my MP3 player is just playing the first few seconds of each song." "Yeah, it’s stuck on scan and I don’t know how to clear it." "Do you mean I’ll have to run the whole way without my music???" Food: "Free" (USA, light) beer, sports drinks, sodas, bagels, oranges, bananas, apples, sports bars, Gu (on the course). Personal Time: 2:12:20 gun time (2:11:45 watch time) Personal Pace: 10:06 Personal Place Overall (males): 653 out of 723 Personal Place Age Group (males): 98 out of 114 # of participants completing the course: 1224 (825 in the 6K) Winning Time: 1:04:52 (Zeph Joseph – he couldn’t accept the $1000US since he’s a student at UNF) Last Finisher: 3:15:03 Results URL: http://www.1stplacesports.com/obdc2002halfres.htm Newspaper article: http://www.times-union.com/tu-online/stories/112902/spo_11096103.shtml Comments: This was an event of firsts for me: first half marathon, first event that Susan’s son Chris ran with us, first use of something other than fluid during the event, and first nature call during an event (I’m so proud). I ran the 6K companion last year and enjoyed it. The half was a different beast but still just as enjoyable. Successes: finished my first half marathon, had a very good time and felt that way at the finish line, no injuries, came in under the 2:20 I expected, and am looking forward to the next half in two weeks. Disappointments: Absolutely none. Yeah, I know, 43F is a warm spell for some folks but it’s considered fairly cool around here. Most prerun conversation was about what kind of gear to wear. Layering seemed to be taken to a whole new level. I don’t know what the winning number of layers was but I did see one young woman shed 4 layers and still have several layers left. Two people tried the garbage bag trick with poor results ("Hey! Go Garbage Bag Man!"). I went with shorts and my cool weather singlet. I had a chance to talk with r.r’s Dr. Dickie but unfortunately didn’t see him afterward (he did very well).

Great race Layne. I shocked myself and finished in 1:52:20. That was the coldest 43F I have felt (and this boy is from D.C. and New Hampshire originally!). Sorry that I missed you afterwards. I had it timed to the second. I defrosted the bird the night before; put it in the oven just before I left for the run; and pulled it out just in time when I got home (so I had to go quickly after the race). The announcer said, "OK, Runners. The signal will be Ready and the gun will fire."

I thought he was funny as all get out. He said," OK, runners, the signal will be Ready and then the gun will sound.

Great run. I really enjoyed it, and my legs have almost recovered (I did deadlifts and squats this morning, no running until Monday though). Look forward to seeing you at the next run, and keep up the great race descriptions. I could never do half the job you do with that. — Dr. Dickie Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438 Poking kooks with a pointy stick "The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing." A. Einstein

Response:

Hi, Dr. D., Great race Layne. I shocked myself and finished in 1:52:20.

Thanks. So you only finished 20 minutes before I did

Yeah, I think it was the north breeze. The crush of people back where I was made it seem pretty warm until the running heat took over. Sorry that I missed you afterwards. I had it timed to the second. I defrosted the bird the night before; put it in the oven just before I left for the run; and pulled it out just in time when I got home (so I had to go quickly after the race).

I’m impressed. That kind of planning and coordination is well beyond me. I guess I was lucky in that everyone in our house ran the half so we were all content to take it easy on the food prep time. Too bad we couldn’t have connected but I took care of your bagel and beer for you. Hey, what are friends for? The announcer said, "OK, Runners. The signal will be Ready and the gun will fire."

Yeah, he’s a nice guy but I heard today that things didn’t go as smoothly as they seemed to us runners. He was dealing with police, neighbors, and volunteers right up to the start time. By the time I came through the course, things were the expected well organized support that is typical in his events. Great run. I really enjoyed it, and my legs have almost recovered (I did deadlifts and squats this morning, no running until Monday though). Look forward to seeing you at the next run, and keep up the great race descriptions. I could never do half the job you do with that.

I agree, it was a great run on a near perfect running day. Your legs probably take a bit longer to recover since you covered the ground so much quicker. Susan’s rule of thumb for recovery is to wait the same number of days to run as hours spent in the event. We’ll try to do a little one on Sunday. I hope you’ll get to do one or both of the 5Ks next Saturday. The one Saturday night is one of my favorites. Thanks, I enjoy writing them up since it makes me attend to what’s happening more than I would normally. Your reports would be quite a bit shorter since you take so much less time to do the course

Response:

Hi, Roger, Foolery: Spectators at mile 3: "You’re almost there!" No, they probably meant from the start, or maybe they thought they were at another 5k. ;-)

Yeah, or almost to the point of discovering if there’s life after death. Personal Time: 2:12:20 gun time (2:11:45 watch time) Awesome. It took me 3 half marathons to get down to that time.

Wow, thanks! I can’t imagine you running at 10 minute miles. Congratulations on your first. But, it is how you feel the morning after…

Thanks. Hmm, so you’ve been there, eh?

LOL. Good point. I’d be thrilled for splits that even. Maybe I should try that sometime.

I was totally amazed. One thing that I noticed during my long runs was that when I slowed down too much, I used more energy than I did when I "just ran." During this run, I used the Force and didn’t try to overcontrol the pace. It was also one of the first times I was able to pick it up just a little near the end and make it stick. (My first 2000+ Polar Calorie run, too.) Does that mean you have a CRM? Calorie Rate Monitor?

Nyuk. Yeah, a 710. I got it for use on the bike, too (mistake). As you’ve mentioned, the graphing is pretty neat. Thanks for the report Layne.

It really was my pleasure. Thanks, Layne The rec.running report archives may be found at http://kinder.cis.unf.edu/rec.running

Response:

Nyuk. Yeah, a 710. I got it for use on the bike, too (mistake). As you’ve mentioned, the graphing is pretty neat.

I guess I could quit calling it an S710 and just say 710. Sounds like you got one OK. Man, it took me almost 6 months to get mine and it will be a year old at the end of this year. I skipped another race yesterday. I had planned on helping, but ended up just running around taking pictures. I got second place in that race last year, but found out this year the age groups 40 and over were over a 10 year spread instead of a 5 year spread. I hate that when they do that. I also found out that, next year, there will be 7 indoor track meets instead of 4. In other words it will be every week instead of every other week. I don’t know if I like that. I’ll find out. Roger The rec.running report archives may be found at

http://kinder.cis.unf.edu/rec.running

Response:

Personal Time: 2:12:20 gun time (2:11:45 watch time) Personal Pace: 10:06

Layne, Your pacing was impressive. A shame it was so darned warm! (17 degrees with a 5-10 mph wind this morning) Leo

Response:

Nyuk. Yeah, a 710. I got it for use on the bike, too (mistake). As you’ve mentioned, the graphing is pretty neat. I guess I could quit calling it an S710 and just say 710. Sounds like you got one OK. Man, it took me almost 6 months to get mine and it will be a year old at the end of this year.

I gave my old 210 to Susan (knowing that she only runs with a watch and sometimes not even a watch). The 710 has been OK after I learned to sync it away from the start line crowd. I skipped another race yesterday. I had planned on helping, but ended up just running around taking pictures. I got second place in that race last year, but found out this year the age groups 40 and over were over a 10 year spread instead of a 5 year spread. I hate that when they do that.

That’s a bummer but taking pictures is good. I’ve done that for a few races when I’d volunteered but they didn’t need me. Yeah, the AG thing is kinda weird. Of course, with my "speed" I doesn’t really matter. I also found out that, next year, there will be 7 indoor track meets instead of 4. In other words it will be every week instead of every other week. I don’t know if I like that. I’ll find out.

Good for them. I’d rather have choices (although it is hard not to participate). Are you planning on some shorter distances? I’d like to do a few open track meets next year just for the experience. Layne The rec.running report archives may be found at http://kinder.cis.unf.edu/rec.running

Response:

Hi, Leo, Personal Time: 2:12:20 gun time (2:11:45 watch time) Personal Pace: 10:06 Layne, Your pacing was impressive. A shame it was so darned warm! (17 degrees with a 5-10 mph wind this morning)

Thanks. The pacing surprised me, too. Hmm, 17F with a wind. You’d need a pretty thick singlet for that, wouldn’t you? Low 40Fs seem about right for me. I’ve also found that the cooler weather seems to help my knees. Thanks, Layne The rec.running report archives may be found at http://kinder.cis.unf.edu/rec.running

Response:

Congratulations Layne on your first 1/2 Marathon! Nice run. It sounds like you ran a well controlled race. Negative splits also. Do you feel you can improve that time on your next 1/2? Well Done. Anthony.

Response:

Last year I ran a 1600 and had a lot of fun. If I have to run another distance besides a 5k I will. However, the last time I tried a 400, I was passed before I was even started. I couldn’t believe how quick some of the people can be right off the starting line blocks. Roger The rec.running report archives may be found at

http://kinder.cis.unf.edu/rec.running

Response:

Great race, Layne. I’ve that race a couple of times and always enjoyed it. The only thing I can see that you might look at for your next half is the timing on the Gu. I might have taken it in a little sooner, at about the 1:15 mark or so. Or use a flask and take it in smaller amounts through the race (my preference.) Which Half are you doing next? JAX? Mike t. "IronPenguin"

Response:

Location: Jacksonville, Florida, USA http://www.1stplacesports.com/obdc2002halfres.htm This was an event of firsts for me: first half marathon, first event that Susan’s son Chris ran with us, first use of something other than fluid during the event, and first nature call during an event (I’m so proud). I ran the 6K companion last year and enjoyed it. The half was a different beast but still just as enjoyable. Successes: finished my first half marathon, had a very good time and felt that way at the finish line, no injuries, came in under the 2:20 I expected, and am looking forward to the next half in two weeks. Disappointments: Absolutely none.

That’s just fantastic, Layne! A big Congratulations! Yeah, I know, 43F is a warm spell for some folks but it’s considered fairly cool around here. Most prerun conversation was about what kind of gear to

Heehee, I can relate. Same with us Zonies, we can’t figure out what to wear if it’s under 50F! Way too cold… leaving it. I told Susan to go on and I’d try to catch up or see her at the finish. One thing I learned from this experience is that when you try to hurry some things they just take longer.

Ain’t that the truth! I was completely shocked in my first marathon with everyone running off and just peeing in the bushes- until I had to go. Then, I understood completely . We talked with people we knew and waited for the awards ceremony. Susan came in AG 4th. The friendly rival she had beaten in the 10 mile Pumpkin Run had edged her out by 34 seconds. No matter. Susan had as much fun as I did and set a new PB. Chris wasn’t as pleased with his run as he expected to do much Layne

So glad it was fun and you had no injuries, AND ran a faster time than you expected! What a rush! Kudos to Susan for her AG 4th too! And again, thanks for another fun read!! Teresa in AZ

Response:

Hi, Mike, Great race, Layne. I’ve that race a couple of times and always enjoyed it.

Thanks. Yeah, you woulda liked this year – great weather and the usual weirdness. The 6K also had a bunch of speedsters who were saving themselves for the Jax marathon on the 15th. The only thing I can see that you might look at for your next half is the timing on the Gu. I might have taken it in a little sooner, at about the 1:15 mark or so.

I kinda wondered about that. I guess they didn’t have a water stop any earlier. To tell the truth I had planned on not taking any Gu but the volunteer was there holding a banana Gu, I was there, … Or use a flask and take it in smaller amounts through the race (my preference.)

I’ll try that. Thanks. Which Half are you doing next? JAX?

You betcha. It’s small, it’s close, and I’m stoked about halves now. Are ya’ll coming down for it? The Race for the Cure and Fesitval of Lights 5Ks are this Saturday

The rec.running report archives may be found at http://kinder.cis.unf.edu/rec.running

Response:

Hi, Teresa, Location: Jacksonville, Florida, USA http://www.1stplacesports.com/obdc2002halfres.htm That’s just fantastic, Layne! A big Congratulations!

Thank you. The good vibes from it are still around. Yeah, I know, 43F is a warm spell for some folks but it’s considered fairly cool around here. Most prerun conversation was about what kind of gear to Heehee, I can relate. Same with us Zonies, we can’t figure out what to wear if it’s under 50F! Way too cold…

LOL. Before the start I was standing next to a guy with multiple layers, hat, ear muffs, scarf, tights, and what looked like a football jersey on top of everything. He wanted to know if I was cold. I said yeah, but only for the next few minutes. How some of those people got out of their britches without stopping I’ll never know. leaving it. I told Susan to go on and I’d try to catch up or see her at the finish. One thing I learned from this experience is that when you try to hurry some things they just take longer. Ain’t that the truth! I was completely shocked in my first marathon with everyone running off and just peeing in the bushes- until I had to go. Then, I understood completely .

Yeah. I’m usually not shy about heading for the bushes but for some reason, it was difficult to stop running. Trail runs might be easier. Next time, I’ll remember to go before I leave the house. So glad it was fun and you had no injuries, AND ran a faster time than you expected! What a rush! Kudos to Susan for her AG 4th too! And again, thanks for another fun read!!

That’s nice of you to say. Actually, I would have been OK with a 2:30. And, you’re right, it was/is a rush. I’m a little worried about the next half measuring up to this one. Ah, well, we’ll just have to give it our best effort (to enjoy ourselves even more). I’ll tell Susan. She’s still AG 2nd for the Jax Grand Prix – even missing an event. You and she are really rockin’ in the year Prixs (prix’s, prixes, priae?). Thanks, Layne The rec.running report archives may be found at http://kinder.cis.unf.edu/rec.running

Response:

Congratulations Layne on your first 1/2 Marathon! Nice run. It sounds like you ran a well controlled race. Negative splits also.

Thanks, Anthony. You’re right, it really did seem like a controlled run. Do you feel you can improve that time on your next 1/2?

Good question – and one I’ve been asking myself. The course is very similar (around here ALL the road courses are pretty similar). Pick up the pace a little with no nature breaks and who knows. I do have a little more understanding about why folks like the half. Well Done.

Thanks, Layne The rec.running report archives may be found at http://kinder.cis.unf.edu/rec.running

Response:

Which Half are you doing next? JAX? You betcha. It’s small, it’s close, and I’m stoked about halves now. Are ya’ll coming down for it? The Race for the Cure and Fesitval of Lights 5Ks are this Saturday

We may come down and spectate. One of the ladies in the club is doing the full as her first marathon and she was very supportive of Toni and her friends this summer. So they want to go down and cheer her in. There’s a 5K here on the 14th we’ll probably do. I thought briefly of doing the half, and I still might, but odds are against it. A 5K and a Half-M back to back might be stretching it a bit for someone who’s supposed to be recovering.

Response:

That’s nice of ya’ll. I’m sure that she’ll appreciate it. The MOSH has their winter trains set up, as I’m sure you already knew. There’s a 5K here on the 14th we’ll probably do. I thought briefly of doing the half, and I still might, but odds are against it. A 5K and a Half-M back to back might be stretching it a bit for someone who’s supposed to be recovering.

Yikes. Well, you’re always welcome to run back with us. r.r’s Craig will be running it. I haven’t had a chance to talk with Dr. Dickie about whether he’ll be running it or not. They’ll be quite a bit in front of us. 7:00 a.m. is gonna come pretty early. Layne The rec.running report archives may be found at http://kinder.cis.unf.edu/rec.running

Response:

Hard Runs vs. Long Runs

admin — Mon, 24 Jun 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

If you want to make running more fun again, enter and train for the canadian death race, www.canadiandeathrace.com

No thanks. I can do without the blistered feet, high entry fees, and weeks of rehabilitation on the sofa. My idea of a long run is 4 miles and I’ve never paid more than $15 to enter a run-only race.

Response:

Buddha, my guess is that almost everyone here works and that my time is as precious and valuable to me as yours is to you. People here will give you a variety of good advice (the trolls come with the territory but block sender and killfiles are good tools once you recognize them). Asking us a question and then asking us to respond to you personally defeats the purpose of a forum like this to me: 1) It leads to you getting a lot of redundant emails since someone might respond in a way I would and why should I waste my precious time to write what Mike or someone else wrote (and maybe even better). 2) I might respond and leave something out and Mike or someone else will add important information (happens quite frequently) 3) Others might be having the same question and can get the answer without having to post and then everyone has to repeat the process. 4) To me it is rude. It is like going to a class in college, asking the prof a question and then asking him to call you at home since you do not come to class often. If you do not check the group regularly, then doing a search for the thread is one option. Stick around. I have been here since 1995 or 1996 and is one of the few newsgroups with good info and that is pretty easy going.

Some of us are working. Duh… And my time is quite precious which is the reason why I posted that in the first place. The lack of time to do long runs. Thanks Andrew, you are the only serious poster here that I found useful. I read over this NG thread and found it extremely wanting in giving me serious answers. I might as well just check runner’s mag. At least, there won’t be any trolls.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please e-mail me. I rarely frequent this NG.

Response:

Some of us are working. Duh…

MOST of us here work. What does that have to do with it? And my time is quite precious

And ours isn’t? Mike "Keep trying" Tennent "IronPenguin"

Response:

Andrew: He’s a troll. Many, many of us have him in our killfiles, but when you respond to him, we get to see his drivel and he gets his kicks. Please don’t feed the trolls. Mike Tennent "IronPenguin"

Response:

Some of us are working. Duh…

And so the rest of us who are working are supposed to take the time out to e-mail you privately? Rob

Response:

I’ve got news for you Bill, Humans are animals

Duhh Dick tracy! Show me where any feline has DNA anywhere NEAR ours and I’ll agree. Some cats can run 70mph in short bursts, so by your defenitions if we live like them we’ll run 70mph too? There is NO relation between us and the animals mentioned other than we all breath, so stop being ridiculous. Bill "Make no mistake about it! Without humor, freedom would drive you insane." I am so cool, that sheep count ME before they go to sleep. http://hometown.aol.com/mrrobottow/

Response:

I have only been here about 4 days , and yes, this is typically how he responds.

This is how I respond to stupid shit, not something that makes even a little sense. Bill "Make no mistake about it! Without humor, freedom would drive you insane." I am so cool, that sheep count ME before they go to sleep. http://hometown.aol.com/mrrobottow/

Response:

What are the health benefits of running a sprint for 20 minutes vs. running slow and steady for 200 minutes. Are they identical? Should I mix the two? What do they? Will they increase fitness? I know that Bush does hard runs, but that is because he like me, is kind of busy. Plus, running is, well, boring. I get impatient. I do cross training a lot. 15 minutes running, 15 minutes rowing, weight lifting, stairs, biking, etc…etc…etc… Is this ok too? And what pray tell is "fitness". And what kind of levels are there. I can run an 8 mintue/mile sprint. Please e-mail me. I rarely frequent this NG. Thanks.

Response:

What are the health benefits of running a sprint for 20 minutes vs. running slow and steady for 200 minutes.

Go for the longer time, it will give you far more benefit even if you do it much slower. but that is because he like me, is kind of busy.

Do as much as you can, that’s all modern man can hope for. Bill "Make no mistake about it! Without humor, freedom would drive you insane." I am so cool, that sheep count ME before they go to sleep. http://hometown.aol.com/mrrobottow/

Response:

E-mailed and posted to rec.running: Plus, running is, well, boring.

Then why run? Look, life is too short to do something you hate so that you might live longer. Why bother? You’ll lose more time being miserable than you’ll gain. Find something or several things aerobic that you love and do them. Have fun. Enjoy your workouts. There’s plenty of options out there, including rowing, skiing, stairs, etc. Or, make running a treat. I actually drive to where I’m going to run, and I pick fun places to run. One of my regular running trails is beside a stream. Today I saw a deer. Another running trail takes me deep into the woods next to a river. Yesterday’s bike ride was a grand tour of the city I live in. But why do something boring? You won’t stick with it anyway. Please e-mail me. I rarely frequent this NG.

No offense, but this is a slap in the face to the group. If you have a question for a group, it’s better form to not say this and stop back a few times to read the replies. I almost decided your question wasn’t worth answering based on this line, but I decided to anyway. Thanks.

You’re welcome. Rob

Response:

This is not necessarily true. Do some research regarding High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) runs. Joe

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are the health benefits of running a sprint for 20 minutes vs. running slow and steady for 200 minutes. Go for the longer time, it will give you far more benefit even if you do it much slower. but that is because he like me, is kind of busy. Do as much as you can, that’s all modern man can hope for. Bill "Make no mistake about it! Without humor, freedom would drive you insane." I am so cool, that sheep count ME before they go to sleep. http://hometown.aol.com/mrrobottow/

Response:

If you want to make running more fun again, enter and train for the canadian death race, www.canadiandeathrace.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – E-mailed and posted to rec.running: Plus, running is, well, boring. Then why run? Look, life is too short to do something you hate so that you might live longer. Why bother? You’ll lose more time being miserable than you’ll gain. Find something or several things aerobic that you love and do them. Have fun. Enjoy your workouts. There’s plenty of options out there, including rowing, skiing, stairs, etc. Or, make running a treat. I actually drive to where I’m going to run, and I pick fun places to run. One of my regular running trails is beside a stream. Today I saw a deer. Another running trail takes me deep into the woods next to a river. Yesterday’s bike ride was a grand tour of the city I live in. But why do something boring? You won’t stick with it anyway. Please e-mail me. I rarely frequent this NG. No offense, but this is a slap in the face to the group. If you have a question for a group, it’s better form to not say this and stop back a few times to read the replies. I almost decided your question wasn’t worth answering based on this line, but I decided to anyway. Thanks. You’re welcome. Rob

Response:

What are the health benefits of running a sprint for 20 minutes vs. running slow and steady for 200 minutes. Go for the longer time, it will give you far more benefit even if you do it much slower

This is completely inaccurate, just flat out wrong. Some perspective. In the "natural world", the most physically fit animals (and we’re animals) sprint, they DO NOT run slow and steady over long durations of time. Be it a Jaguar, Cheetha, or Lion sprinting after prey, or a thorough bred horse racing in the Kentucky Derby…..the most fit animals are sprinters plain and simple….not those that "trot" over time. Maximum fitness would be best derived from numerous short 100m (yard) wind sprints as opposed to distance running. It’s just a hell of a lot easier to jog 5 miles than it is to seriously sprint a series of 25 100 yard sprints. It’s true. Distance runners might not want to concede this and I would imagine most in this ng are prejudice toward distance running,…..the facts are readily seen in the natural and real world. Professional athlete’s fitness is measured by their short Sprint and 1 and 2 mile time runs. However and most importantly….take a look at the animal world. Sprinting burns up so much energy and is so exhuasting….that an animal has to conserve and reserve its energy on a daily basis before even attempting to a "sprint" to kill prey. In otherwords….for a lion or cheetah for example….that act of sprinting is so exhaustive…..they can’t afford to make an effort of sprinting and making a kill…unless they are very certain/confident they will be successful. The animal will be "spent" for the day if they are not successful and won’t be able to muster the energy to make an equivalent sprint. If you’ve never sprinted…I mean seriously sprint….you don’t know. try it. go to a track and go "all out" and knock out even 10 serious sprints in a row. People just can’t do it. I’ve seen Division 1 college athletes "give up",…..no kidding….simply throw in the towel after 6 sprints. I’m 39, totally muscular at 5′ 9.5" and 175 and built like a sprinter….I daily run 4 miles at a 6min/mile pace (no fudge here….specifically I do about 5′50" per mile). I’m a great condition, had no problem managing my run on Sunday in 91 degrees and humidity here in NYC. I cannot Sprint, serioulsy sprint, seriously sprint 10 100 meter sprints in a row. I used to run 10 miles in the morning……I know running distance. I have gotten into far better shape by running shorter distance but running for speed. I wish I could sprint as opposed to doing the 4 miles I do….however I am just not in good enough shape to do it at my standards. Andrew Andrew

Response:

Please e-mail me. I rarely frequent this NG.

No offense, but this is a slap in the face to the group. If you have a question for a group, it’s better form to not say this and stop back a few times to read the replies. I said the same thing a while back about someone who posted the same request that we email him/her because they don’t read this NG that often. Everyone tore me a new one! I agree with you that this an insult and the poster should stop back to view replies to his /her question. Brian — — If you don’t have anything productive to say, then it is best to not say anything!

Response:

This is completely inaccurate, just flat out wrong.

Your head is COMPLETELY up your ass! Ignore this ignoramus. Let him go on to compare humans to animals that are in no way related to us. Dipshit! Bill "Make no mistake about it! Without humor, freedom would drive you insane." I am so cool, that sheep count ME before they go to sleep. http://hometown.aol.com/mrrobottow/

Response:

Please e-mail me. I rarely frequent this NG.

Response:

Bill, is this typically how you respond to someone with a countering view? Instead of illustrating immaturity, perhaps you can articulate or support your assertions? I’ve got news for you Bill, Humans are animals and for you to say "are in no way related to us" illustrates your level of education my friend. Andrew – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is completely inaccurate, just flat out wrong. Your head is COMPLETELY up your ass! Ignore this ignoramus. Let him go on to compare humans to animals that are in no way related to us. Dipshit! Bill "Make no mistake about it! Without humor, freedom would drive you insane." I am so cool, that sheep count ME before they go to sleep. http://hometown.aol.com/mrrobottow/

Response:

I have only been here about 4 days , and yes, this is typically how he responds. And I think he said he is in his 40s! BTW, you are right about the sprointing. But I do have a question. You say "10 sprints in a row". How much, if any, rest is between each sprint? Joe

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is completely inaccurate, just flat out wrong. Your head is COMPLETELY up your ass! Ignore this ignoramus. Let him go on to compare humans to animals that are in no way related to us. Dipshit! Bill "Make no mistake about it! Without humor, freedom would drive you insane." I am so cool, that sheep count ME before they go to sleep. http://hometown.aol.com/mrrobottow/

Response:

Injuried training for first 1/2 marathon, HELP!

admin — Sun, 31 Mar 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

You wish or :/ snip DONG, Only those that have seen me in the shower call me this. — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

– Regards, Dave

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And if I am not able to run outside(cold or raining) or need to run without impact, I use the elpatic mechine. (like now, I can only run 10-15 min on the elpetic b/c of doctor’s orders) is that the same workout as runnning outside if I do it for the scheduled amount of distance or time. … Anyone want to take a shot other than the obvious less impact?

Shiva, I can’t address your specific question about the ellipical since I’ve never seen one, but you may find some useful thoughts on cross-training in general in the thread "Bloody rest didn’t work" Feb 8, 2002, started by Jarno Hellstrom (I’m giving the dates since it’s expired from my news server but can be found through Google search.) There’s many good comments in that thread, but between Feb 11 and Feb14, there’s a discussion with Doug of how to deal with scheduling / logging / crediting cross-training – with the aim of not overdoing something in cross-training but also strengthening weak links. What prompted the discussion was how to account for (adjust?) workout times, both in terms of building strength but also in not over-doing something, when running in varying snow conditions is the norm, rather than the exception (I’m in Alaska.). Short version: Your current question may just concern aerobic conditioning on the elliptical right now, and presumably your doctor is working with you on injury recovery. But keep in mind that running involves many systems – aerobic, muscles, tendons, ligaments, etc. Each needs to be strengthened but not overdone. There may be things that the elliptical is not doing that running does. This is the specificity principle. Good luck! Dot

Response:

I think most will agree this is the best way to lift and run. And if I am not able to run outside(cold or raining) or need to run without impact, I use the elpatic mechine. (like now, I can only run 10-15 min on the elpetic b/c of doctor’s orders) is that the same workout as runnning outside if I do it for the scheduled amount of distance or time.

Sorry, I missed this question. I will have to yield to others to understand how running and an elliptical trainer compare or differ. Anyone want to take a shot other than the obvious less impact? DONG,

Only those that have seen me in the shower call me this. — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Doug, thanks again for the advice, I am learning alot. This is too hard to take a guess. Are you trying to hit the gym and run on the same day? Are you working your legs hard in the gym such as weights or stairmaster and then running on tired legs the same or next day? Etc, etc…. I don’t workout at the gym and run on the same day. I also don’t do leg workouts at the gym and run the next day or day before b/c both days are on the same body part. I would do upper body the day before and day after a running day. And if I am not able to run outside(cold or raining) or need to run without impact, I use the elpatic mechine. (like now, I can only run 10-15 min on the elpetic b/c of doctor’s orders) is that the same workout as runnning outsideif I do it for the scheduled amount of distance or time. I run on a running trail its like a samll street which is more flat than running on the street’s bike lane. thank you shiva

DONG, thanks again for all the advice, its very important for me. you don’t see the above posting. please advice on that topic. thank you Shiva

Response:

That gives me some hope - that I might recover quicker in my mid 50’s than when I was begining running at 49

Rock on, you are getting stronger!!! — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

Response:

David, I am in my early 20s, I am recovering slow for my age.

In general there is more resilience in youth but recovery is more a byproduct of conditioning than age. If for your 20 years you have participated in very few activities that involve your legs like basketball, soccer, etc., your muscles will need more time to strengthen and adjust. OTOH, if you are starting out older 40+ recovery is usually a slower process. — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

Response:

David, I am in my early 20s, I am recovering slow for my age. thanks Shiva – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As well as listening to Doug’s excellent advice, remember that your age has a great deal to do with how fast you recover.

Response:

That gives me some hope - that I might recover quicker in my mid 50’s than when I was begining running at 49 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David, I am in my early 20s, I am recovering slow for my age. In general there is more resilience in youth but recovery is more a byproduct of conditioning than age. If for your 20 years you have participated in very few activities that involve your legs like basketball, soccer, etc., your muscles will need more time to strengthen and adjust. OTOH, if you are starting out older 40+ recovery is usually a slower process. — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

– Regards, Dave

Response:

Doug, thanks again for the advice, I am learning alot. This is too hard to take a guess. Are you trying to hit the gym and run on the same day? Are you working your legs hard in the gym such as weights or stairmaster and then running on tired legs the same or next day? Etc, etc….

I don’t workout at the gym and run on the same day. I also don’t do leg workouts at the gym and run the next day or day before b/c both days are on the same body part. I would do upper body the day before and day after a running day. And if I am not able to run outside(cold or raining) or need to run without impact, I use the elpatic mechine. (like now, I can only run 10-15 min on the elpetic b/c of doctor’s orders) is that the same workout as runnning outsideif I do it for the scheduled amount of distance or time. I run on a running trail its like a samll street which is more flat than running on the street’s bike lane. thank you shiva

Response:

As well as listening to Doug’s excellent advice, remember that your age has a great deal to do with how fast you recover. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got injuried in october when I was training for a 1/2 marathon, I made a lot of mistakes b/c I am beginner, I increased my miles too fast(10 miles in september to about 50 miles in october, I did not run all of it and I did not cross train) and I ran on the street where the surface is not flat. I got tendinitis of my lower leg and knee as well as plantar fasciits. that was back in october, now i am better(80-85 % better) but still going to the doctor but I feel that maybe i don’t have good biomechanics or something. does it usually take this long to heal from injuries and is normal for runners to end up with so many injuries at onces. what does this mean for my running future, should I forget about marathons and 1/2 marathons? how should I train? thank you Shiva

– Regards, Dave

Response:

You have the rest of your life to run so try patience(adj) and not be a patient(noun). ~~~~~~` Great advice, Doug. But…errr… patience is a noun and patient is also

noun. And for that matter patient can also be an adjetive and a noun, i.e. "be patient" vs. "be a patient." So Doug meant to say: "Be patient(adj) not a patient(noun)." I like it. — Eduardo Suastegui "Test everything; Hold on to the good." (Remove 701 when replying via e-mail)

Response:

I also looked in to runner’s world, they only have programs that have 4 or more days of running. I can only run 2 to 3 days a week (so they did not help me) and on the

All those training schedules are guidelines and not Bibles. Take one that has 4 days and modify it for three. If it means you have one more zero day, fine. Since your mileage will be less, factor in your increases per your total mileage. Error on the conservative side.. other days I workout at the gym. how many days do I need to take off from all kinds of training a week?

This is too hard to take a guess. Are you trying to hit the gym and run on the same day? Are you working your legs hard in the gym such as weights or stairmaster and then running on tired legs the same or next day? Etc, etc…. what are the rules/guidelines that training programs should have? for example I know I shouldn’t run everyday,

At first this is probably best especially with some injury background already. increase mileage 5 to 10% both daily and weekly.

5% at best and weekly number with a pattern that might be – increase, increase, hold, increase, increase, hold. Those hold weeks allow your body to catch up. what else do I look for in training programs so I can make sure it is a good program for me.

Another good question that can only be answered with general terms. One that advocates a slow growth and keeps you injury free. I know vague but worry less about the mileage and more on staying injury free. Even with a 5% growth rate you will soon get to some significant numbers if that is your goal. and I also know now that no training programs is made for me so I have to change it to fit my life. I want to be able to change the training programs around so they fit me, how do I do that?

Look at the program and try to understand what it is doing. Note hard/easy patterns with mileage or intensity. At this point you should be looking to build a base. if you find a program that covers track workouts or hill repeats stay away. Build a base aka a strong foundation. Once you have base then you can opt, if you want, to add hills and/or speed. — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

Response:

Doug and Mary, thank you very much for the advice, I really needed it. I am not running now and will not untill I get better, I am cross training at the gym by going on the elaptic, bike, and strength training, 4 to 6 times a week. I did not have much guidence to begin with, I got alot of books but I was not able find a good training program for my needs so I got my training program from the web, asimba.com but it was not a good one. I also looked in to runner’s world, they only have programs that have 4 or more days of running. I can only run 2 to 3 days a week (so they did not help me) and on the other days I workout at the gym. how many days do I need to take off from all kinds of training a week? what are the rules/guidelines that training programs should have? for example I know I shouldn’t run everyday, increase mileage 5 to 10% both daily and weekly. what else do I look for in training programs so I can make sure it is a good program for me. and I also know now that no training programs is made for me so I have to change it to fit my life. I want to be able to change the training programs around so they fit me, how do I do that? thanks for all the great advice in advance Shiva

Response:

I got injuried in october when I was training for a 1/2 marathon, I made a lot of mistakes b/c I am beginner, I increased my miles too fast(10 miles in september to about 50 miles in october, I did not run all of it and I did not cross train) and I ran on the street where the surface is not flat. I got tendinitis of my lower leg and knee as well as plantar fasciits. that was back in october, now i am better(80-85 % better) but still going to the doctor but I feel that maybe i don’t have good biomechanics or something. does it usually take this long to heal from injuries and is normal for runners to end up with so many injuries at onces. what does this mean for my running future, should I forget about marathons and 1/2 marathons? how should I train? thank you Shiva

Response:

Impossible to answer. You simply abused the hell out of yourself over a short time. From 10 to 50 miles in two months. Either you thought you were invincible or you had no guidance. You know the first is not true and only you know the answer to the second. The first thing you need to do is get healed. This will mean either backing way down or stop running. Then you need ramp up at a much slower rate like maybe 5%(many knew I was going to get this in). Take a look at http://www.runnersworld.com/ and look into training plans and find a conservative plan. Once you get into a more conservative plan and build a slow base, you will find if you have any other problems. Once you get a base of 25-30 miles of injury free base then think about a 1/2 marathon with a 4 to 6 month build up. You have the rest of your life to run so try patience(adj) and not be a patient(noun). — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

Response:

You have the rest of your life to run so try patience(adj) and not be a patient(noun).

~~~~~~` Great advice, Doug. But…errr… patience is a noun and patient is also noun. We knew what you meant. However, the editor in me cries out to catch this (someone else will, if I don’t). Now, if you would have said, "The patient must be a patient runner," then you would be demonstrating the difference between the two parts of speech. Nevertheless, excellent advice, and one we need to be reminded of. As always, thank you (and no, I never can keep straight if the quotation mark goes before the comma or after it. I didn’t say I was perfect). Mary

Response:

You have the rest of your life to run so try patience(adj) and not be a patient(noun). ~~~~~~` Great advice, Doug. But…errr… patience is a noun and patient is also noun.

I really do know the difference but I had spelled the patient wrong and selected the wrong correct word from spell check. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. As always, thank you (and no, I never can keep straight if the quotation mark goes before the comma or after it. I didn’t say I was perfect).

Yes you did. If you caught me with a wrong comma and a quote I claim I rely on visual rather than what is correct. I do have an English handbook but it is as old as me and written on a stone. How is your patience with your foot? — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

Response:

Visiting Colorado Springs

admin — Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I was in COS a few times last year on business (and will be there a few times this year as well). My favorite run is at the Garden of the Gods. Great trails and mountain runs.

I’ll second that. Just be sure you have a GOOD map of the trails. Last year I got lost on the trails… It was a nice long run, but I ran out of water — in JULY There is a tri-club in the Springs. I used to have a bookmark to their web site, but I can’t find it. IIRC, the name was the Pikes Peak Tri Club, or something like that. Anyway, it might be worth emailing someone from that club for info/hints on running, too. David / FEY2K IMCAL2000 16:53 I hate junk email. I’m trying VERY hard to avoid it with my new ISP. So, to reach me, reply to wuth followed by grp, all as one word (ie namegrp) at bellsouth dot net. Let’s see any bot figure out how to get my email from that!

Response:

Dave: I was in COS a few times last year on business (and will be there a few times this year as well). My favorite run is at the Garden of the Gods. Great trails and mountain runs. Watch where you step though, these are also used by horses. This is my #1 pick. You can also run the Pike’s Peak trail used in the COS marathon. Check the website for the exact location, or ask at the hotel where you are staying. There is also a running trail right near the downtown Adams Mark hotel, just past the library, I forget the street name, but it starts at a park (maybe this is Memorial park?) and runs the length of a stream. It is paved in parts but mostly gravel and dirt. About 5 miles total. I usually stay at the downtown Adams Mark hotel and that has a pool so I don’t know about swimming, but I think some place near the Garden of the Gods you can rent a mountain bike for some cycling fun. Let me know if you need more exact info and I’ll contact a few people I know that live there. Enjoy the altitude training. It does wonders for building endurance!! Jim Porco Dublin, Ohio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi all, I’ll be visiting Colorado Springs around the third weekend in March. I’m looking for info. on local swimming facilities open to the public. Also easy to access running trails and Hotels near such trails. Thanks, Dave

Response:

Didn’t think they would let a bum like you in that state!!! Good luck out there DJ, we’ll miss you back east! BTW, tell your old man I said hey. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I’ll be visiting Colorado Springs around the third weekend in March. I’m looking for info. on local swimming facilities open to the public. Also easy to access running trails and Hotels near such trails. Thanks, Dave

Response:

You can swim at the YMCA in COS and one of the best running trails in the USA is the Monument trail. Ask at the hotel on directions but basically just head towards the mountains and you will run into the trail. It is right by the YMCA. So you could swim and then run to the trail. Beautiful. Alan ley

Response:

Hi all, I’ll be visiting Colorado Springs around the third weekend in March. I’m looking for info. on local swimming facilities open to the public. Also easy to access running trails and Hotels near such trails. Thanks, Dave

Response:

long runs and rain

admin — Sat, 25 Aug 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Running in the rain is fun and a good idea.. Ken Mc

Depends on your part of the world. In Colorado warm rain is almost always accompanied by lightning. Else it is 30-40 degrees F and freezing.

Response:

Doesn’t matter if it’s wet, so long as it isn’t

Response:

I hate/can’t run in the rain. My perspiration is very acidic and burns my eyes. I was in a 10K several years ago when it started raining near the end. By the time I got to the finish I could not see because the rain washed the sweat into my eyes and no amount of wiping could get it out. I walked around squinting and flailing at my eyes for about 20 mins. before I could leave. I guess I could use swimming goggles but have never pursued it. Regards…John I’ve been lurking for the last few weeks but haven’t seen this come up. I’m training for the Chicago Marathon, using the Runners World beginner program. Tomorrow I’m scheduled to run 16 miles. The weather forecast is for rain. I can’t really reschedule my long run due to the training program and my time committments, if the weather is yucky. Does anyone have any suggestions for surviving a wet long run? Or is that just a bad idea? Thanks in advance, Marisa –

– to email replace ‘at’ and ‘-dot-’ carusoj at bellsouth dot net

Response:

Isn’t there a simple solution like wearing a wide sweatband on your forehead and a cap with a long bill to protect your head?

Response:

John, try a head band, it catches the sweat/salt. Been doing this for almost 20 years. — Caveat Lector Doug Freese

Response:

I’m not very good at reading minds, but if you had put a smiley face at the end of the sentence I would have seen that you were using satire.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On 25 Aug 2001, "Max Power" FYI – colds are caused by viruses. The only real danger of running in rain is hypothermia. I was within 6 weeks of the marathon and I was worried about getting a cold, pneumonia, typhoid, that sort of thing. FYI – colds are indeed caused by virii. My above reference to illness was facetious and deliberately hyperbolic, specifically satirizing the marathoner’s abject fear of contracting illness so close to the goal race. We are afraid, aren’t we? Paranoid even? I think it’s funny. — //Lorne Sundby

Response:

Thank you to everyone that posted and/or e-mailed me! Depending on which way you look at it, I had good/bad luck today, in that there was no rain. It started to mist around my 3mi point, but cleared up by the 4mi mark. Over all, the weather was pretty decent today- not too hot or humid. I’ve done shorter runs in rain, but that was a long time ago. I used to like running in the bad weather, even if the people who drove past looked at you like you were crazy. My main concern about the long run was the wet shoe/sock problem; I run in coolmax/dri-fit shorts and sportsbra, so I wasn’t too worried about the clothes. Thanks to all the advice, I am hoping to get a chance to have a wet run before the marathon. Marisa –

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank you to everyone that posted and/or e-mailed me! Depending on which way you look at it, I had good/bad luck today, in that there was no rain. It started to mist around my 3mi point, but cleared up by the 4mi mark. Over all, the weather was pretty decent today- not too hot or humid. I’ve done shorter runs in rain, but that was a long time ago. I used to like running in the bad weather, even if the people who drove past looked at you like you were crazy. My main concern about the long run was the wet shoe/sock problem; I run in coolmax/dri-fit shorts and sportsbra, so I wasn’t too worried about the clothes.

I have never had this problem when running in the rain but once I was hiking in a rain storm and it started to lightning. Now that can get scary when you are five miles from the car and it is striking within a half mile. But us hikers use gaitors for the wet boot / sock problem. I have never seen runners use gaitors. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks to all the advice, I am hoping to get a chance to have a wet run before the marathon. Marisa –

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I agree in many ways with the several posts about the joys and value of doing training runs in the rain, but a cautionary note for the inexperienced: this past spring, I happily ventured out on a long run of 14 miles despite a steady rain. I enjoyed the cooling effect, the adventure of getting through, the way it changed the scenery, the experience I gained for some future marathon in the rain, etc…..but I also was forced off most of my usual running trail, which is grass, and onto streets and sidewalks of asphalt and concrete. At that point in my training regimen, my body simply was not ready for those hard surfaces at that distance. Result: I suffered a bad IT band strain that interrupted training for 2 weeks. That said, let it rain, now I’m ready! Chris

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Running in the rain is fun and a good idea.. Ken Mc

Response:

FYI – colds are caused by viruses. The only real danger of running in rain is hypothermia.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have any suggestions for surviving a wet long run? Or is that just a bad idea? Admittedly, I could have done the whole run in the rain, but it was a bit cold (it was April) and I was worried about getting chilled. I was within 6 weeks of the marathon and I was worried about getting a cold, pneumonia, typhoid, that sort of thing. Lorne Sundby

Response:

On 25 Aug 2001, "Max Power" FYI – colds are caused by viruses. The only real danger of running in rain is hypothermia. I was within 6 weeks of the marathon and I was worried about getting a cold, pneumonia, typhoid, that sort of thing.

FYI – colds are indeed caused by virii. My above reference to illness was facetious and deliberately hyperbolic, specifically satirizing the marathoner’s abject fear of contracting illness so close to the goal race. We are afraid, aren’t we? Paranoid even? I think it’s funny. — //Lorne Sundby

Response:

I’ve been lurking for the last few weeks but haven’t seen this come up. I’m training for the Chicago Marathon, using the Runners World beginner program. Tomorrow I’m scheduled to run 16 miles. The weather forecast is for rain. I can’t really reschedule my long run due to the training program and my time committments, if the weather is yucky. Does anyone have any suggestions for surviving a wet long run? Or is that just a bad idea? Thanks in advance, Marisa –

Response:

Don’t wear any socks or clothing that absorbs water and Enjoy!! P.S. Urbana-Champaign is where I started running back in 1966. Lots of good memories and enjoyable runs/races!

Response:

Does anyone have any suggestions for surviving a wet long run? Or is that just a bad idea?

A long run in the rain is pure pleasure – quiet, alone, just the sound of the rain to keep you company – and much different than a long race in the rain. Since pace won’t matter too much, you have some options. Last year I did a 20 miler – 3 hrs 20 minutes – in rain that ranged from a light shower to a torrential downpour. I parked near the running route, and looped back halfway through. I changed everything except my shorts – dry shoes, socks, base layer, shell jacket, and hat. Changing the in the back of the van was awkward, but only took a few minutes. Admittedly, I could have done the whole run in the rain, but it was a bit cold (it was April) and I was worried about getting chilled. I was within 6 weeks of the marathon and I was worried about getting a cold, pneumonia, typhoid, that sort of thing. Lorne Sundby

Response:

Running in the rain is an okay idea. I actually like running in the rain, but it sometimes take a little longer to motivate myself to get out the door. I did 19 last weekend in a pretty steady downpour for at least the first half. I wear cool-max socks, so that helps a bit with reducing the occurrence of blisters. Wearing a cap or hat with a brim helps keep the rain out of your eyes. I gave up on having dry shoes though. And with the recent high humidity in my area, running on clear days still resulted in shoes that where completely soaked. On one long run I stopped and changed clothes. New shoes, socks, shorts. So take what precautions you think might be necessary to reduce the blister occurrences, and then just go run! And enjoy it. It can be kind of special. todd

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been lurking for the last few weeks but haven’t seen this come up. I’m training for the Chicago Marathon, using the Runners World beginner program. Tomorrow I’m scheduled to run 16 miles. The weather forecast is for rain. I can’t really reschedule my long run due to the training program and my time committments, if the weather is yucky. Does anyone have any suggestions for surviving a wet long run? Or is that just a bad idea? Thanks in advance, Marisa –

Response:

The only thing that bothers me about running in the rain is getting droplets on my eyeglasses which makes it difficult to see clearly. If you wear glasses, give contacts a try, it makes rain running a lot easier and very enjoyable!

Response:

They will not cancel the Chicago Marathon if it rains. Go ahead and train for rain. The first time I hit a really rainy run I was a little hesitant, but I went ahead. Good thing, it was a great run and close to the end I was treated to the most impressive triple rainbow I have ever seen. As others have noted, cotton is not very comfortable in the rain, but I never wear anything cotton for long runs anyway. — Dia ’s Muire duit Joseph E. Meehan

Response:

I envy you! Just enjoy it…. I love rainy runs, especially the long ones. Have fun! — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

Response:

Don’t wear cotton shirt of shorts. Not just for the chill factor but you don’t want to inadvertently win a wet t-shirt contest. Otherwise if it isn’t too cool then it shouldn’t be a problem.

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Marisa: By all means go run in the rain. You WANT to prepare yourself for all possible conditions on marathon day and rain is one of them. Last year for my Marine Corps Marathon training I purposefully went for a long run on a rainy even though it messed up the schedule a tad. Training is about being prepared and not much more, so go for it.. Good luck. Doug Burke – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been lurking for the last few weeks but haven’t seen this come up. I’m training for the Chicago Marathon, using the Runners World beginner program. Tomorrow I’m scheduled to run 16 miles. The weather forecast is for rain. I can’t really reschedule my long run due to the training program and my time committments, if the weather is yucky. Does anyone have any suggestions for surviving a wet long run? Or is that just a bad idea? Thanks in advance, Marisa –

Response:

Running in Melbourne Australia

admin — Sun, 29 Jul 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I will be in Melbourne in September (22-29). Where are the best places to run? Are there any local 5k or 10k’s?

Response:

I will be in Melbourne in September (22-29). Where are the best places to run? Are there any local 5k or 10k’s?

Make a pilgrimage out to Portsea where Percy Cerutty use to train the likes of Herb Elliott and others. Find the sand dunes and do a few repeats. The spirits of all those runners who ran and trained there will whisper to you. Years ago I visited Nancy Cerutty and was given a tour of where all the training took place and saw some of the books where the various young blokes signed in. Great piece of history in that area. — In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer – rec.running FAQ http://www.faqs.org/faqs/by-newsgroup/rec/rec.running.html Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975 Mindful Running http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp

Response:

I will be in Melbourne in September (22-29). Where are the best places to run? Are there any local 5k or 10k’s?

For inner Melbourne it’s worth checking out the Botanic Gardens circuit ("The ‘Tan"). Most visiting internationals down for the various IAAF GP II events run there over the summer. I think Noah Ngeny (Olympic 1500m Champion last year) still holds the record for a lap (10.22). Bob Kennedy has run it in 10.29 and Luke Kipkosgei in 10.26 (on two occassions). It’s quite scenic and very centrally located (near Olympic Park and the MCG). Hill at Anderson St. is rather steep though. It’s also fun because you know what the really super-elite international guys can do it in. -Roly

Response:

I will be in Melbourne in September (22-29). Where are the best places to run? Are there any local 5k or 10k’s?

Depends how far you want to run, but there is a pleasant track around the Botanical Gardens 3.8km – anyone will be able to direct you there, only about 500 – 800 metres south of the city. If you want to run any distance, there is a bike/running trail along the Yarra River (you would have to cross over the Yarra to get to the Botanical Gardens) which goes out of the city -east towards Kew and then on to Templestowe. Nice and quiet, pleasant surroudings, flat to undulating. Enjoy your stay.

Response:

Road Rage Incident

admin — Sun, 24 Jun 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Check out the local Galyans stores. They may have "bear spray", although I would think it simply has a higher concentration of pepper or cs than the people spray. You may find that the active ingredients are the same and can use the people spray. Galyans is great. They also have their own brand of coolmax wear, good quality and cheaper than the name brand stuff.

You’re right about Galyans. I just bought some of their coolmax wear, and it is wonderful. I’ll check there for the spray. Thanks, Michelle

Response:

Michelle, I went to school in the UP (Houghton) for 4 years. The bears there are black bears, not grizzlys. I ran into several on the trails during runs, one at only 10-20 yards. They just turned tail and ran and I’ve never heard of them doing anything differently to runners. The only exception I can imagine is if you get between mommy and her cubs. I advise simply making noise as you run, such as singing/talking to a running partner. No need to get spray or be afraid for your life. Michigan bears are very timid Andy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is the grizzly bear spray difficult to find? We’ll be vacationing in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula for the last two weeks in July. I’ve been told that there are many bears in this area and have been concerned about how this will affect my running. I’m in the habit of carrying pepper spray on every run anyway. I didn’t realize until I read this post that they made a special spray for bears. I live in the Indianapolis area. Could I purchase this locally or through mail order? Michelle

Response:

Is the grizzly bear spray difficult to find? We’ll be vacationing in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula for the last two weeks in July. I’ve been told that there are many bears in this area and have been concerned about how this will affect my running. I’m in the habit of carrying pepper spray on every run anyway. I didn’t realize until I read this post that they made a special spray for bears. I live in the Indianapolis area. Could I purchase this locally or through mail order?

I live in Calgary, where everyone is willing to share bear advice. Here’s what I have gathered from the various sources: – Bear spray works most of the time, but only at very close quarters (less than 5 m) and as a last resort. – Park Wardens in the Nat Parks here carry it — that’s good enough for me! – If you do carry it, learn how to use it first, and make sure it is easily accessible (not in a rucksack). – It is the same substance as the pepper spray you can buy for use against humans in the US, but comes in much bigger cans. Even these big cans only last 5-6 seconds. The human version is not going to help you faced with a bear. – as far as I know, you won’t meet a grizzly in Michigan, but you might meet a black bear. They’re much the same only more common, can be predatory, and must be fought if they attack (don’t play dead and definitely don’t climb a tree). – the most effective way of avoiding a close encounter with a bear is to always travel in a group — apparently attacks on groups of 4 or more have never been recorded; in some parts of Alberta, however, at least 6 is recommended. – you’re only likely to get into trouble if you surprise a bear. Avoid doing this by looking for signs of bears (scat, digging, tree-scratching), moving rapidly away from animal carcasses, and making plenty of noise. (And don’t wear a personal stereo — a female athlete was fatally mauled in Canada last year whilst running in the forest listening to music) – check with local park rangers, who will know about recent sightings, encounters, or path closures. – FYI, a 225 g (small) can of bear spray costs around US$40-50, with holster (e.g. at www.selfdefence.com, or use AltaVista to search for ‘bear spray’) – Bear spray should not be carried onto aircraft, and I believe it’s illegal to bring it into Canada from the US (or the US from Canada; because of the labelling) Bottom line advice from me is, always go out with other people and you can almost completely relax. Remember that bear maulings are very, very rare, so don’t let it spoil your trip. I am possibly over-cautious — I see lots of people out in Banff park alone, and most of them seem to come back… Cheers, Matt

Response:

That was my first thought. What’s the point? Do you really think that yelling at a hot car burning rubber is going to slow them down? MDW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You should not shout at strangers. Obviously the driver took offence. He reaction is "who do you think you are shouting at me ?" That’s when it turned ugly, Unless you are a super hero or a Rambo, don’t try to tell stangers what to do unless they ask you (like in this newsgroup ) !. They will then be oblidged to tell you what to do especially if they are "bigger" ! I think I’d better go now.

Response:

Now that you mention that. Ever hear someone with a real loud Car Stereo. The joke I’ve heard about it, is instead of them playing music like an Ice cream truck, they run their car stereos real loud as if they are saying "I’ve got drugs." While that might not be true, I certainly wouldn’t try to tell one of those people to turn it down. I think if I even asked them for ear plugs it might be too much. I did however get one person to turn his car stereo down. What I did was held my cell phone out the window and then the guy in the car turned his stereo down and said something like: "What are you doing?" I replied: "I was only trying to see if my brother could hear you." ;-) Turn out my brother couldn’t. I’ll bet that is because phones don’t have a real good frequency response and they can not transmit the bass notes. Thanks, Roger BTW 5k this weekend. I’ll be shooting for my second sub 21. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That was my first thought. What’s the point? Do you really think that yelling at a hot car burning rubber is going to slow them down? MDW

Response:

You forgot one: Making noise. The bear appreciates it if you don’t surprise it. If you let it know you’re coming, the bear can prepare a nice au jus sauce (or perhaps a BEARNAISE) to complement you. This is good advice if you’re intent on blasting down the trail at information-age speed and are so enamored by the vistas that you aren’t aware of the bear that ducked into the nearby brush when you announced your arrival. We tend to do that because we think we’re the top dog

You seem to think you know a lot about how we hike. everywhere and it’s fun to brag about how we hiked 18 miles in 6 hours carrying a 60-lb backpack, gaining and losing 4000 feet in elevation. Providing, of course, that we don’t barge into the area between momma bear and her cubs.)

The idea is to make some sound so no one gets surprised. Look, I didn’t make this up: all the park pamphlets recommend it. At least they did that summer. I wonder how much more we’d see if we strolled casually (and quietly) down the trail to, say, that first campsite about 5 miles in, allowing our awareness (and awareness of us) to flow gently down the trail ahead of us. Wildlife does not flee from those ambling along with no particular intent as it does from those crashing down the trail at urban-life noise level….

I don’t see how using one’s natural voice comes close to "urban-life noise level." Strolling along singing and grooving on nature are not mutually exclusive notions. Remember those wacky Von Trapps, frolicking and singing? Even with the whole clan trilling, they noticed how alive are the hills. On the other hand, in the case of bears, perhaps we *want* them to flee…

You don’t say? Sheesh. We’re getting all picked on and no one pointed out how funny the bearnaise sauce joke is. Buncha mother-nature lovin’ tree huggers.

Response:

You forgot one: Making noise. The bear appreciates it if you don’t surprise it. If you let it know you’re coming, the bear can prepare a nice au jus sauce (or perhaps a BEARNAISE) to complement you. Seriously, making noise as you make your way through the woods is an oft-recommended technique for avoiding bear encounters. The theory is that when they hear you coming, the bears decide that you’re annoying/uninteresting/maybe a little scary and will wander away. Some hikers attach a bell to their packs that rings as they walk; I once sang and hummed my way through a solo hike in the Tetons. I sing badly. Even the bugs didn’t bite.

This is good advice if you’re intent on blasting down the trail at information-age speed and are so enamored by the vistas that you aren’t aware of the bear that ducked into the nearby brush when you announced your arrival. We tend to do that because we think we’re the top dog everywhere and it’s fun to brag about how we hiked 18 miles in 6 hours carrying a 60-lb backpack, gaining and losing 4000 feet in elevation. Providing, of course, that we don’t barge into the area between momma bear and her cubs.) I wonder how much more we’d see if we strolled casually (and quietly) down the trail to, say, that first campsite about 5 miles in, allowing our awareness (and awareness of us) to flow gently down the trail ahead of us. Wildlife does not flee from those ambling along with no particular intent as it does from those crashing down the trail at urban-life noise level…. On the other hand, in the case of bears, perhaps we *want* them to flee…

Response:

Is the grizzly bear spray difficult to find?

Check with your local camping store. The UP will probably be a better place to look than Indianapolis. We’ll be vacationing in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula for the last two weeks in July. I’ve been told that there are many bears in this area and have been concerned about how this will affect my running.

Try to run in a developed area. Training runs in the wilderness, well… it may come as a surprise to some of the local denizens of the forest… some of whom don’t like surprises. At the very least, hike your prospective running trail a time or two first to give the local population time to adjust to your presence. By the way, does the UP have grizzly bears or black bears? Black bears are not quite as dangerous as grizzlies. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m in the habit of carrying pepper spray on every run anyway. I didn’t realize until I read this post that they made a special spray for bears. I live in the Indianapolis area. Could I purchase this locally or through mail order? Michelle

Response:

What’s the difference between Black Bear and Grizzly scat? Black bear scat has berries and nuts in it, while Grizzly scat has little bells in it. Troy Some hikers attach a bell to their packs that rings as they walk; I once sang and hummed my way through a solo hike in the Tetons. I sing badly. Even the bugs didn’t bite.

http://community.webtv.net/tmacrun/AppalachianTrail

Response:

By the way, does the UP have grizzly bears or black bears? Black bears are not quite as dangerous as grizzlies.

You know how you can tell if you’re being chased by a grizzly or a black bear? Climb up a tree. If it knocks the tree down and eats you it was a grizzly, if it climbs the tree after you and eats you it was a black bear. (Going to Alaska next week, so probably should be worried about bears, but I’m more worried I won’t see any!) — Asya Kamsky I will complete a marathon and raise $5000 for the SF AIDS Foundation, Dec 9, 2001, Honolulu, Hawaii. Sponsor me! For more information see http://www.things.org/~asya/why.html

Response:

This morning while I was walking I had my worst incident with a road

raged driver that I’ve had in 27 years of running/racewalking. I had just started out from my girlfriend’s place at about 7 a.m. and had been walking for about a minute when a yellow Mustang came toward me burning rubber trying to drive as fast as he could. I waved my arms in the "slow down" gesture and yelled at him to slow down. A few seconds later I heard the screeching of brakes and saw him turn around. My first thought was to get his license number, but what happened next occured so fast that I was unable to get it. The driver went about 50 yards past me, got out of his car and started running toward me and said "Get ready to throw down boy, I’m going to kick your ass". I didn’t say anything, I turned around and started running as fast as I could. I’ve always thought that I could outrun just about anyone in this situation but to my shock he was gaining on me and repeatedly saying he was going to kick my ass. Fortunately, after 100 yards or so he gave up the chase. I made a detour through a wooded area so he wouldn’t know exactly where I was going. I went back to my girlfriends and called 911 to report it. A sheriff’s deputy came and took my report but said there wasn’t much they could do since I didn’t get the license number. I also told him that since they had widened and repaved that road in the past year it has turned into a drag strip. The officer said that he was well aware of it but its hard to patrol it because there aren’t any places for them to conceal themselves. After the deputy left I drove back to my place which is in a more pedestrian friendly residential area to walk. I felt very vulnerable and at one point I hid behind a building because I saw a car coming that looked like the one that came after me. I figure that the punk that assaulted me had probably been out all night and was probably drunk and was driving around looking for trouble. I learned a lesson today and I think I’ll stick to walking in more pedestrian-friendly areas for a while.<<< Pepper spray. Especially the kind that leaves a stain that shows under UV. Saves you from having to pick out the assailant in a lineup. My friend Bob prefers the spray they make for grizzly bears. We got some at Glacier National Park, then brought it back to Rockville, Maryland, where the really dangerous predators lurk. One blast puts them on the ground. Then you can send the next one right up their nose…

Response:

Hmmm. US post. In England we get road rage, but we have bigger letters and numbers on our licence plates so we can read ‘em for miles, and we’re not allowed to carry pepper spray. You are SO lucky you can run fast – I would have been up s**t creek without a paddle! I would have run straight up to the nearest door and sought refuge.

Response:

Hello Sean, I live in Kalamazoo, Michigan, which is one of the most pedestrian-unfriendly places in the United States. There are very few trails or bike lanes here and pedestrians get very little respect. After this incident I told my girlfriend that I didn’t think I should walk from her place anymore because she lives in an area that is becoming very over-developed with more and more traffic and few sidewalks. When we go on trips we are amazed at how much better it is for pedestrians and cyclists. David Dunn

Response:

Actually, I’d have told him that he was already an a$$hole, and asked him if he wanted to become a felon as well. A maimed felon…

Response:

Well, I probably can speak for a nasty few others here who would LOVE to have been in your shoes just once. If I am passing through someday, maybe we can go running (at my age-reduced speed) and hope that he shows up again. I fight a lot better than I run and that doofus would be the horizontal subject of a citizen’s arrest. Pissed off in Noo Yawk, Ken (NY) — Chairperson, Department of Redundancy Department An officer is assaulted every 7 minutes, one is injured every 2.5 hours, and one is KILLED every other day. 99 Percent Of Lawyers Give The Rest A Bad Name No trees were harmed to bring you this e-Presentation… For the spam search bots:

Response:

Michelle, Check out the local Galyans stores. They may have "bear spray", although I would think it simply has a higher concentration of pepper or cs than the people spray. You may find that the active ingredients are the same and can use the people spray. Galyans is great. They also have their own brand of coolmax wear, good quality and cheaper than the name brand stuff. Best wishes, Leo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My friend Bob prefers the spray they make for grizzly bears. We got some at Glacier National Park, then brought it back to Rockville, Maryland, where the really dangerous predators lurk. One blast puts them on the ground. Then you can send the next one right up their nose… Is the grizzly bear spray difficult to find? We’ll be vacationing in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula for the last two weeks in July. I’ve been told that there are many bears in this area and have been concerned about how this will affect my running. I’m in the habit of carrying pepper spray on every run anyway. I didn’t realize until I read this post that they made a special spray for bears. I live in the Indianapolis area. Could I purchase this locally or through mail order? Michelle

Response:

My friend Bob prefers the spray they make for grizzly bears. We got some at Glacier National Park, then brought it back to Rockville, Maryland, where the really dangerous predators lurk. One blast puts them on the ground. Then you can send the next one right up their nose… Is the grizzly bear spray difficult to find? We’ll be vacationing in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula for the last two weeks in July. I’ve been told that there are many bears in this area and have been concerned about how this will affect my running. I’m in the habit of carrying pepper spray on every run anyway. I didn’t realize until I read this post that they made a special spray for bears.

I think that it’s not so ’special’ – just bigger can, greater flow rate, greater distance. The payload carries a certain amount of risk, though. It’s best not to carry it in the passenger compartment of a car, for example. Bear spray is illegal to carry as baggage on commercial airlines. If you fly in a light plane, be SURE to tell the pilot you have it. Maybe he’ll make you leave it, or maybe he’ll have vented storage somewhere. Depends. I live in the Indianapolis area. Could I purchase this locally or through mail order?

Try "bear spray" in the Web search engine of your choice. The best bear protections remain: 1.) staying aware of your surroundings, 2.) using your head, and 3.) having a slow friend. Cheers, Fred Klingener

Response:

–On Tuesday, June 26, 2001 11:02 AM -0400 Fred Klingener The best bear protections remain: 1.) staying aware of your surroundings, 2.) using your head, and 3.) having a slow friend.

You forgot one: Making noise. The bear appreciates it if you don’t surprise it. If you let it know you’re coming, the bear can prepare a nice au jus sauce (or perhaps a BEARNAISE) to complement you. Seriously, making noise as you make your way through the woods is an oft-recommended technique for avoiding bear encounters. The theory is that when they hear you coming, the bears decide that you’re annoying/uninteresting/maybe a little scary and will wander away. Some hikers attach a bell to their packs that rings as they walk; I once sang and hummed my way through a solo hike in the Tetons. I sing badly. Even the bugs didn’t bite.

Response:

This is the perfect reason for carrying personal pepper spray when you run/bike/etc… you never know who is going to be offended by absolutely nothing…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The law can get pretty frustrating, eh? While someone is being chased down the road by a drunk hooligan they’re expected to read six small numbers on the back of a car from a distance and get away from him at the same time? I’m lucky that wasn’t me in that situation because I probably would have tried to humiliate him. (Not by fighting him, mind ya…) It’s a darn good thing you got out of there quickly…Where exactly do you live? Sean Chester Peaceful Vancouver Island, Canada This morning while I was walking I had my worst incident with a road raged driver that I’ve had in 27 years of running/racewalking. I had just started out from my girlfriend’s place at about 7 a.m. and had been walking for about a minute when a yellow Mustang came toward me burning rubber trying to drive as fast as he could. I waved my arms in the "slow down" gesture and yelled at him to slow down. A few seconds later I heard the screeching of brakes and saw him turn around. My first thought was to get his license number, but what happened next occured so fast that I was unable to get it. The driver went about 50 yards past me, got out of his car and started running toward me and said "Get ready to throw down boy, I’m going to kick your ass". I didn’t say anything, I turned around and started running as fast as I could. I’ve always thought that I could outrun just about anyone in this situation but to my shock he was gaining on me and repeatedly saying he was going to kick my ass. Fortunately, after 100 yards or so he gave up the chase. I made a detour through a wooded area so he wouldn’t know exactly where I was going. I went back to my girlfriends and called 911 to report it. A sheriff’s deputy came and took my report but said there wasn’t much they could do since I didn’t get the license number. I also told him that since they had widened and repaved that road in the past year it has turned into a drag strip. The officer said that he was well aware of it but its hard to patrol it because there aren’t any places for them to conceal themselves. After the deputy left I drove back to my place which is in a more pedestrian friendly residential area to walk. I felt very vulnerable and at one point I hid behind a building because I saw a car coming that looked like the one that came after me. I figure that the punk that assaulted me had probably been out all night and was probably drunk and was driving around looking for trouble. I learned a lesson today and I think I’ll stick to walking in more pedestrian-friendly areas for a while. David Dunn

Response:

You should not shout at strangers. Obviously the driver took offence. He reaction is "who do you think you are shouting at me ?" That’s when it turned ugly, Unless you are a super hero or a Rambo, don’t try to tell stangers what to do unless they ask you (like in this newsgroup ) !. They will then be oblidged to tell you what to do especially if they are "bigger" ! I think I’d better go now.

Response:

Sounds like that guy might have just watched "Fast and Furious." Too bad I can’t say anything about the movie, other than I’ll see it again when it comes out on video. Roger

Response:

The law can get pretty frustrating, eh? While someone is being chased down the road by a drunk hooligan they’re expected to read six small numbers on the back of a car from a distance and get away from him at the same time? I’m lucky that wasn’t me in that situation because I probably would have tried to humiliate him. (Not by fighting him, mind ya…) It’s a darn good thing you got out of there quickly…Where exactly do you live? Sean Chester Peaceful Vancouver Island, Canada – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This morning while I was walking I had my worst incident with a road raged driver that I’ve had in 27 years of running/racewalking. I had just started out from my girlfriend’s place at about 7 a.m. and had been walking for about a minute when a yellow Mustang came toward me burning rubber trying to drive as fast as he could. I waved my arms in the "slow down" gesture and yelled at him to slow down. A few seconds later I heard the screeching of brakes and saw him turn around. My first thought was to get his license number, but what happened next occured so fast that I was unable to get it. The driver went about 50 yards past me, got out of his car and started running toward me and said "Get ready to throw down boy, I’m going to kick your ass". I didn’t say anything, I turned around and started running as fast as I could. I’ve always thought that I could outrun just about anyone in this situation but to my shock he was gaining on me and repeatedly saying he was going to kick my ass. Fortunately, after 100 yards or so he gave up the chase. I made a detour through a wooded area so he wouldn’t know exactly where I was going. I went back to my girlfriends and called 911 to report it. A sheriff’s deputy came and took my report but said there wasn’t much they could do since I didn’t get the license number. I also told him that since they had widened and repaved that road in the past year it has turned into a drag strip. The officer said that he was well aware of it but its hard to patrol it because there aren’t any places for them to conceal themselves. After the deputy left I drove back to my place which is in a more pedestrian friendly residential area to walk. I felt very vulnerable and at one point I hid behind a building because I saw a car coming that looked like the one that came after me. I figure that the punk that assaulted me had probably been out all night and was probably drunk and was driving around looking for trouble. I learned a lesson today and I think I’ll stick to walking in more pedestrian-friendly areas for a while. David Dunn

Response:

This morning while I was walking I had my worst incident with a road raged driver that I’ve had in 27 years of running/racewalking. I had just started out from my girlfriend’s place at about 7 a.m. and had been walking for about a minute when a yellow Mustang came toward me burning rubber trying to drive as fast as he could. I waved my arms in the "slow down" gesture and yelled at him to slow down. A few seconds later I heard the screeching of brakes and saw him turn around. My first thought was to get his license number, but what happened next occured so fast that I was unable to get it. The driver went about 50 yards past me, got out of his car and started running toward me and said "Get ready to throw down boy, I’m going to kick your ass". I didn’t say anything, I turned around and started running as fast as I could. I’ve always thought that I could outrun just about anyone in this situation but to my shock he was gaining on me and repeatedly saying he was going to kick my ass. Fortunately, after 100 yards or so he gave up the chase. I made a detour through a wooded area so he wouldn’t know exactly where I was going. I went back to my girlfriends and called 911 to report it. A sheriff’s deputy came and took my report but said there wasn’t much they could do since I didn’t get the license number. I also told him that since they had widened and repaved that road in the past year it has turned into a drag strip. The officer said that he was well aware of it but its hard to patrol it because there aren’t any places for them to conceal themselves. After the deputy left I drove back to my place which is in a more pedestrian friendly residential area to walk. I felt very vulnerable and at one point I hid behind a building because I saw a car coming that looked like the one that came after me. I figure that the punk that assaulted me had probably been out all night and was probably drunk and was driving around looking for trouble. I learned a lesson today and I think I’ll stick to walking in more pedestrian-friendly areas for a while. David Dunn

Response:

Man, oh man!! Wow…. what a tale. That’s crazy… lucky you didn’t get hurt. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This morning while I was walking I had my worst incident with a road raged driver that I’ve had in 27 years of running/racewalking. I had just started out from my girlfriend’s place at about 7 a.m. and had been walking for about a minute when a yellow Mustang came toward me burning rubber trying to drive as fast as he could. I waved my arms in the "slow down" gesture and yelled at him to slow down. A few seconds later I heard the screeching of brakes and saw him turn around. My first thought was to get his license number, but what happened next occured so fast that I was unable to get it. The driver went about 50 yards past me, got out of his car and started running toward me and said "Get ready to throw down boy, I’m going to kick your ass". I didn’t say anything, I turned around and started running as fast as I could. I’ve always thought that I could outrun just about anyone in this situation but to my shock he was gaining on me and repeatedly saying he was going to kick my ass. Fortunately, after 100 yards or so he gave up the chase. I made a detour through a wooded area so he wouldn’t know exactly where I was going. I went back to my girlfriends and called 911 to report it. A sheriff’s deputy came and took my report but said there wasn’t much they could do since I didn’t get the license number. I also told him that since they had widened and repaved that road in the past year it has turned into a drag strip. The officer said that he was well aware of it but its hard to patrol it because there aren’t any places for them to conceal themselves. After the deputy left I drove back to my place which is in a more pedestrian friendly residential area to walk. I felt very vulnerable and at one point I hid behind a building because I saw a car coming that looked like the one that came after me. I figure that the punk that assaulted me had probably been out all night and was probably drunk and was driving around looking for trouble. I learned a lesson today and I think I’ll stick to walking in more pedestrian-friendly areas for a while. David Dunn

Response:

Saturday's 8 Miler

admin — Sat, 11 Nov 2000 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Sorry …..wrong group!

Response:

How are they going to figure out who won the race if George Bush is involved?

Ha. You get 9 points for that one. It would have been 10 but one of the chards(sp?) was a swinging door and the computer doesn’t count those.

Response:

Next time I’m in College Station I’ll run it. Sounds like a lot of sidewalk running though. I prefer to run in the park by the Bush senior library. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In case anyone wants to know the route early…..but I’m not putting water out until 8! Start: Rec Center. Right on Olson Blvd to Joe Routt Right on Joe Route (Over the rainbow) down to G. Rollie (Throckmorton) Right on Throckmorton to George Bush Left on George Bush to Bizzell (Golf Course) Left on Bizzell to New Main Dr. Right on New Main Dr. to Texas Ave. (Water stop at Brick Wall…please keep it tidy!) Cross Texas Ave to Walton Dr. Stay on Walton as it curves around the neighborhood. It eventually turns to Kyle. Go Right on Puryear Dr. (Basically, go ALL the Way around Thomas Park. There’s even a running trail!) (There’ll be water on the corner of Kyle & James so you can pass twice) When you get back to Kyle, go Left back to Walton Drive and go home the way you came. (Wal – NewMain – GB – Bizz – Throck – JoeR – Olson) My Blue car puts it at a 8.6 round trip +/- about .3 for lane changes etc. Have fun! Susan

Response:

In case anyone wants to know the route early…..but I’m not putting water out until 8! Start: Rec Center. Right on Olson Blvd to Joe Routt Right on Joe Route (Over the rainbow) down to G. Rollie (Throckmorton) Right on Throckmorton to George Bush Left on George Bush to Bizzell (Golf Course) Left on Bizzell to New Main Dr. Right on New Main Dr. to Texas Ave. (Water stop at Brick Wall…please keep it tidy!) Cross Texas Ave to Walton Dr. Stay on Walton as it curves around the neighborhood. It eventually turns to Kyle. Go Right on Puryear Dr. (Basically, go ALL the Way around Thomas Park. There’s even a running trail!) (There’ll be water on the corner of Kyle & James so you can pass twice) When you get back to Kyle, go Left back to Walton Drive and go home the way you came. (Wal – NewMain – GB – Bizz – Throck – JoeR – Olson) My Blue car puts it at a 8.6 round trip +/- about .3 for lane changes etc. Have fun! Susan

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The first thing they’ll need to do is withhold the trophy from the winner. Then there will be a group of runners who complain that they didn’t understand the arrows on the race course, even though the race director had clearly marked the course on the registration form. People will then weigh in with being told to go the wrong direction by a course official while attempting to run the course. The second place runner will then request a "re-run" of the second and fifth miles because he made up more time in those areas because he’s a better hill runner. In the end, there will be no winner and the next year’s participation will be down because of the controversy.

I suppose another alternative is to keep rerunning the race or those portions until the second place runner is satisified with his performance. — David Olsen

Response:

How are they going to figure out who won the race if George Bush is involved? The first thing they’ll need to do is withhold the trophy from the winner. Then there will be a group of runners who complain that they didn’t understand the arrows on the race course, even though the race director had clearly marked the course on the registration form. People will then weigh in with being told to go the wrong direction by a course official while attempting to run the course.

Actually a better analogy would be for the race directions to be right on the course but for the course to be different from what they were told it would be beforehand. -jeff

Response:

How are they going to figure out who won the race if George Bush is involved?

The first thing they’ll need to do is withhold the trophy from the winner. Then there will be a group of runners who complain that they didn’t understand the arrows on the race course, even though the race director had clearly marked the course on the registration form. People will then weigh in with being told to go the wrong direction by a course official while attempting to run the course. The second place runner will then request a "re-run" of the second and fifth miles because he made up more time in those areas because he’s a better hill runner. In the end, there will be no winner and the next year’s participation will be down because of the controversy. This reminds me of a race in Milwaukee where some runners were actually enticed to enter the race by the offer of free cigarettes . . . but that’s a whole ‘nother story.

Response:

Great story!…But this was just a training run for a marathon training class….some folks wanted to go out early so thay could get on ESPN Game Day for the Texas A&M /OU game today…..and here in College Station, everthing is named for Papa Bush back when we were campaigning for the Presidential Library….Ahhh College Station TX, the Republican Holyland…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How are they going to figure out who won the race if George Bush is involved? The first thing they’ll need to do is withhold the trophy from the winner. Then there will be a group of runners who complain that they didn’t understand the arrows on the race course, even though the race director had clearly marked the course on the registration form. People will then weigh in with being told to go the wrong direction by a course official while attempting to run the course. The second place runner will then request a "re-run" of the second and fifth miles because he made up more time in those areas because he’s a better hill runner. In the end, there will be no winner and the next year’s participation will be down because of the controversy. This reminds me of a race in Milwaukee where some runners were actually enticed to enter the race by the offer of free cigarettes . . . but that’s a whole ‘nother story.