Run Run Away

Question:

           Interesting.  I looked at the 55 mpw 24 week program in Advanced Marathoning, I see 8 VO2max workouts listed over 24 weeks and 7 LT workouts. Pete’s VO2max workouts ranged from 600m to 1200m in each interval.

"A high lactate threshold is the MOST IMPORTANT physiological variable for edurance athletes. Lactate threshold MOST DIRECTLY determines your performance limit in any events lasting longer than  30 minutes. " Pete Pftitzinger — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "It is necessary to run as many miles or kilometers as you possibly can at economic or aerobic speeds to lift your oxygen uptake to your highest possible level as the foundation upon which to base your anaerobic or speed training."                                                            Arthur Lydiard http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/home.html –

Response:

"A high lactate threshold is the MOST IMPORTANT physiological variable for edurance athletes. Lactate threshold MOST DIRECTLY determines your performance limit in any events lasting longer than  30 minutes. " Pete Pftitzinger

….here’s another one (very well said, too): "The most important adaptations for marathon success are a high level of endurance, a fast pace at lactate threshold, and the ability to store a large quantity of glycogen in the muscles and liver. V02 max sessions are definitely a SECONDARY consideration for a marathoner. Intervals require large amounts of physical and phsychological energy, which can be better used doing more specific marathon training. V02 max sessions have their place in marathon preparation, but they SHOULD BE INCLUDED SPARINGLY." Pete Pfitzinger — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "It is necessary to run as many miles or kilometers as you possibly can at economic or aerobic speeds to lift your oxygen uptake to your highest possible level as the foundation upon which to base your anaerobic or speed training."                                                            Arthur Lydiard http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/home.html –

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "A high lactate threshold is the MOST IMPORTANT physiological variable for edurance athletes. Lactate threshold MOST DIRECTLY determines your performance limit in any events lasting longer than  30 minutes. " Pete Pftitzinger ….here’s another one (very well said, too): "The most important adaptations for marathon success are a high level of endurance, a fast pace at lactate threshold, and the ability to store a large quantity of glycogen in the muscles and liver. V02 max sessions are definitely a SECONDARY consideration for a marathoner. Intervals require large amounts of physical and phsychological energy, which can be better used doing more specific marathon training. V02 max sessions have their place in marathon preparation, but they SHOULD BE INCLUDED SPARINGLY." Pete Pfitzinger

….and a few more: "Another common mistake among marathoners is trying to include too many V02 max sessions in their marathon training programs." "An improvement in lactate threshold almost invariably represents an improvement in your ability to run the marathon." "You lactate threshold is the most important factor in determining running performances in races longer than 10k. For th 10k, V02 max and lactate threshold are about equally important. For the 5k, a high V02 max is the most important physiological attribute." "Although lactate threshold training is the most important type of training for distance runners, many runners don’t understand how to improve their lactate threshold. The best way to do this is simple – train at, or just slightly above, you lactate threshold." Pete Pfitzinger (all quotes) hope this helps, — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "It is necessary to run as many miles or kilometers as you possibly can at economic or aerobic speeds to lift your oxygen uptake to your highest possible level as the foundation upon which to base your anaerobic or speed training."                                                            Arthur Lydiard http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/home.html –

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –            Interesting.  I looked at the 55 mpw 24 week program in Advanced Marathoning, I see 8 VO2max workouts listed over 24 weeks and 7 LT workouts. Pete’s VO2max workouts ranged from 600m to 1200m in each interval. "A high lactate threshold is the MOST IMPORTANT physiological variable for edurance athletes. Lactate threshold MOST DIRECTLY determines your performance limit in any events lasting longer than  30 minutes. " Pete Pftitzinger

        However, that does not mean one should not do workouts to improve VO2max and especially those related to leg speed (in addition to strides) which several of the VO2max workouts do (600m intervals for instance). Marathon runners do not typically have as high a VO2max as their middle distance counterparts, but optimizing VO2max is a good idea.  Regardless of LT or VO2max there is an energy cost of running at a given pace.  Let’s say it takes 55 ml/kg/min of oxygen to run a certain velocity for me.  If my VO2max is 60, then I am working very, very close to that value and really am not going to be able to run at that pace very long.  However, if I raise my VO2max to 65, then the same energy expenditure is theoretically easier. LT is a good predictor of performance, but VO2max is not all bad either in a large population.  The more homogenous the population the less predictive VO2max becomes and even within narrow confines so does LT. Just pointing out that one should not ignore improving VO2max and Pfitzinger includes quite a few workouts aimed at improving VO2max as well as LT.

Response:

Sorry that I missed the other parts, but while I think the psychological stuff is important (2 degrees in psych related areas) I also am trained as an exercise physiologist (1 degree there) and would like to see some data on improvement with clothing other than the reduction in air resistance (and yes the right uniform can make a difference at elite level marathon speeds—search for a paper by Chester Kyle). I think you stretch the analogy between a business deal where you are dependent on the impression of others to close a deal and an event in which a vast majority of the control of the outcome lies in what one does not how others perceive a person.  Heck, I got beat in a race by a guy in a ratty T shirt wearing Chuck Taylor’s one time.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –        WOW one whole minute reduction!   I think training better would be my first choice Sam….re-read my post and you’ll see I said in capital letters, "after" all other efforts and strategies were in place.   I don’t know what you do for a living Sam…..however I am in the business world and have meetings with clients, etc.     Part of the game is the gear….critical meetings with clients when I’m trying to close deals?….that calls for the right suit, right tie, right watch, shoes,….it’s all part of the psychology of winning.   Don’t discount it.    Again, re-read my post and you’ll see that I said after you’ve done all the training strategies…..a final consideration in the effort to take a couple of minutes of your marathon time could be found in the gear.   When you’re dressed in world class gear….that just might give you the psychological edge to perform world class in your mind…..equate this to helping realize a personal best. Works for me every time. Andrew

Response:

ok….this may sound silly….you might laugh….however consider the following AFTER you’ve done everything you can think of in prep for that next big race.    Purchase a high end top shelf running outfit….a pair of shorts and a top. Honestly….when I first bought a pair of real pro running shorts and top….I immediately noticed the difference between the pro gear and the regular stuff…how it draped on my body in my stride and movement, etc.. I felt like a pro, a real Olympian marathoner. If you’re an average runner who runs marathons….I would venture to say you’re going to get at least a one minute reduction in your time over the course of a marathon if you employ this psychological motivating tactic and edge.   It works for me…I always get a state of the art new pro outfit for a big race….and in my mind, in addition to all the other things working for me and motivating me…..I think I want to do the outfit justice…live up to the hype of the gear…and this little psychological boost has always enabled me to achieve personal best(s). Andrew – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wanting to take  a few minutes off my marathon time,Which form of speed work would you suggest to be the best over a 16 week  training period.   Svend — Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wanting to take  a few minutes off my marathon time,Which form of speed work would you suggest to be the best over a 16 week  training period.    Svend Hi Svend, I would suggest concentrating on increasing your "easy run" mileage, as your aerobic capacity will be a far more important determinant of how well you will do come marathon time. Having said that, the IS still room for speedwork in a marathon program. You should focus on lactic threshold training, which is more important than the faster stuff, such as V02 max.

        I would not discount the value of VO2max workouts as described by Pfitzinger and others since improving VO2max typically means improving velocity at VO2max and makes any pace easier.   Some 1200m repeats for instance.  Speed work needs to be periodized as well. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lactic threshold pace is (give or take a bit) about 15km – 10mile race pace for most runners. Running too fast is counter-productive in this case. Here’s a great workout you could try once a week: 10 miles, with the first 4 done easy, then increase to lactic threshold pace for 3 – 4 miles, then the remainder done easy. best of luck, — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "It is necessary to run as many miles or kilometers as you possibly can at economic or aerobic speeds to lift your oxygen uptake to your highest possible level as the foundation upon which to base your anaerobic or speed training."                                                            Arthur Lydiard http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/home.html –

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ok….this may sound silly….you might laugh….however consider the following AFTER you’ve done everything you can think of in prep for that next big race.    Purchase a high end top shelf running outfit….a pair of shorts and a top. Honestly….when I first bought a pair of real pro running shorts and top….I immediately noticed the difference between the pro gear and the regular stuff…how it draped on my body in my stride and movement, etc.. I felt like a pro, a real Olympian marathoner. If you’re an average runner who runs marathons….I would venture to say you’re going to get at least a one minute reduction in your time over the course of a marathon if you employ this psychological motivating tactic and edge.   It works for me…I always get a state of the art new pro outfit for a big race….and in my mind, in addition to all the other things working for me and motivating me…..I think I want to do the outfit justice…live up to the hype of the gear…and this little psychological boost has always enabled me to achieve personal best(s).

        WOW one whole minute reduction!   I think training better would be my first choice. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Andrew Wanting to take  a few minutes off my marathon time,Which form of speed work would you suggest to be the best over a 16 week  training period.   Svend — Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/

Response:

You should focus on lactic threshold training, which is more important than the faster stuff, such as V02 max.         I would not discount the value of VO2max workouts as described by Pfitzinger and others since improving VO2max typically means improving velocity at VO2max and makes any pace easier.   Some 1200m repeats for instance.  Speed work needs to be periodized as well.

Pfitzinger himself clearly states in both his books that lactic threshold training is much more important for marathon programs than V02 max. Look at his marathon training programs for proof of this. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "It is necessary to run as many miles or kilometers as you possibly can at economic or aerobic speeds to lift your oxygen uptake to your highest possible level as the foundation upon which to base your anaerobic or speed training."                                                            Arthur Lydiard http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/home.html –

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You should focus on lactic threshold training, which is more important than the faster stuff, such as V02 max.         I would not discount the value of VO2max workouts as described by Pfitzinger and others since improving VO2max typically means improving velocity at VO2max and makes any pace easier.   Some 1200m repeats for instance.  Speed work needs to be periodized as well. Pfitzinger himself clearly states in both his books that lactic threshold training is much more important for marathon programs than V02 max. Look at his marathon training programs for proof of this.

I forgot to mention that no one suggested never doing V02 max workouts! It’s just much more important to do lactic threshold stuff for marathon training. Maybe you misunderstood my original post to mean never doing V02 max running, which was never my point! happy running, — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "It is necessary to run as many miles or kilometers as you possibly can at economic or aerobic speeds to lift your oxygen uptake to your highest possible level as the foundation upon which to base your anaerobic or speed training."                                                            Arthur Lydiard http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/home.html –

Response:

       WOW one whole minute reduction!   I think training better would be my first choice

Sam….re-read my post and you’ll see I said in capital letters, "after" all other efforts and strategies were in place.   I don’t know what you do for a living Sam…..however I am in the business world and have meetings with clients, etc.     Part of the game is the gear….critical meetings with clients when I’m trying to close deals?….that calls for the right suit, right tie, right watch, shoes,….it’s all part of the psychology of winning.   Don’t discount it.    Again, re-read my post and you’ll see that I said after you’ve done all the training strategies…..a final consideration in the effort to take a couple of minutes of your marathon time could be found in the gear.   When you’re dressed in world class gear….that just might give you the psychological edge to perform world class in your mind…..equate this to helping realize a personal best. Works for me every time. Andrew

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You should focus on lactic threshold training, which is more important than the faster stuff, such as V02 max.         I would not discount the value of VO2max workouts as described by Pfitzinger and others since improving VO2max typically means improving velocity at VO2max and makes any pace easier.   Some 1200m repeats for instance.  Speed work needs to be periodized as well. Pfitzinger himself clearly states in both his books that lactic threshold training is much more important for marathon programs than V02 max. Look at his marathon training programs for proof of this.

           Interesting.  I looked at the 55 mpw 24 week program in Advanced Marathoning, I see 8 VO2max workouts listed over 24 weeks and 7 LT workouts. Pete’s VO2max workouts ranged from 600m to 1200m in each interval. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "It is necessary to run as many miles or kilometers as you possibly can at economic or aerobic speeds to lift your oxygen uptake to your highest possible level as the foundation upon which to base your anaerobic or speed training."                                                            Arthur Lydiard http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/home.html –

Response:

Wanting to take  a few minutes off my marathon time,Which form of speed work would you suggest to be the best over a 16 week  training period.    Svend

Hi Svend, I would suggest concentrating on increasing your "easy run" mileage, as your aerobic capacity will be a far more important determinant of how well you will do come marathon time. Having said that, the IS still room for speedwork in a marathon program. You should focus on lactic threshold training, which is more important than the faster stuff, such as V02 max. Lactic threshold pace is (give or take a bit) about 15km – 10mile race pace for most runners. Running too fast is counter-productive in this case. Here’s a great workout you could try once a week: 10 miles, with the first 4 done easy, then increase to lactic threshold pace for 3 – 4 miles, then the remainder done easy. best of luck, — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "It is necessary to run as many miles or kilometers as you possibly can at economic or aerobic speeds to lift your oxygen uptake to your highest possible level as the foundation upon which to base your anaerobic or speed training."                                                            Arthur Lydiard http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/home.html –

Response:

Wanting to take  a few minutes off my marathon time,Which form of speed work would you suggest to be the best over a 16 week  training period.    Svend — Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/

Response: