Run Run Away » running shorts

When to use jockstrap?

admin — Sun, 09 Jan 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

get the jock! … I like a swimmer …just personal pref … now only wear a jock … NO SHORTS! … briefs or boxers … wrote in message

news:1105277553.007465.319590@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I was once jogging on a treadmill and my boxer rode up – and needless > to say it was very painful. The gym instructor suggested that I wear > briefs or a jockstrap. Just wondering – for cardio, cycling, > basketball, soccer and weight training, what’s the benefits of wearing > a jockstrap over briefs? > I think I’ll buy a jockstrap simply because I could wear it under my > boxers. But briefs seems to be cheaper and I don’t need to wear an > additional underwear to cover my butt… Just asking. > I was also recommended compression shorts, but they seem very expensive > – not worth the cost.

Response:

When you were wearing your boxer shorts you had a bigger modesty problem than just your lower butt cheeks showing. Compression shorts are overkill for running and gym. A lightweight athletic supporter is much cooler, literally and figuratively. Why did these things ever go out of favor?

Response:

I usually wear a jockstrap with briefs – more support. I see other guys doing the same thing. I just started mountain biking and the first time out I just wore briefs under my shorts – my balls were all over the place. The next day, I wore a jock and briefs and they felt great – no pain at all.

Response:

No need to wear anything to cover your butt. Just wear the jockstrap under your shorts. No briefs or boxers needed. Cooler that way too. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -raj…@gmail.com wrote: > I was once jogging on a treadmill and my boxer rode up – and needless > to say it was very painful. The gym instructor suggested that I wear > briefs or a jockstrap. Just wondering – for cardio, cycling, > basketball, soccer and weight training, what’s the benefits of wearing > a jockstrap over briefs? > I think I’ll buy a jockstrap simply because I could wear it under my > boxers. But briefs seems to be cheaper and I don’t need to wear an > additional underwear to cover my butt… Just asking. > I was also recommended compression shorts, but they seem very expensive > – not worth the cost.

Response:

In article <1105277553.007465.319…@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, raj…@gmail.com wrote: > I was once jogging on a treadmill and my boxer rode up – and needless > to say it was very painful. The gym instructor suggested that I wear > briefs or a jockstrap. Just wondering – for cardio, cycling, > basketball, soccer and weight training, what’s the benefits of wearing > a jockstrap over briefs?

A jock strap is specifically designed to hold your genitals snugly in place; briefs don’t necessarily do that for you. And a jock strap can be cooler under shorts. > I think I’ll buy a jockstrap simply because I could wear it under my > boxers. But briefs seems to be cheaper and I don’t need to wear an > additional underwear to cover my butt… Just asking.

Jock strap and running shorts is a comfortable combination. > I was also recommended compression shorts, but they seem very expensive > – not worth the cost.

Compression shorts help reduce muscle fatigue. This can be important if you’re playing a sport like hockey, basketball, or football. And for competitive treadmill-jogging, I’d say they’re indispensible. ;-) — Jockwoof jocks: http://www.timberwoof.com/jockwoof/ charter: http://www.timberwoof.com/jockwoof/charter.shtml FAQ: http://www.timberwoof.com/jockwoof/faq.shtml

Response:

I was once jogging on a treadmill and my boxer rode up – and needless to say it was very painful. The gym instructor suggested that I wear briefs or a jockstrap. Just wondering – for cardio, cycling, basketball, soccer and weight training, what’s the benefits of wearing a jockstrap over briefs? I think I’ll buy a jockstrap simply because I could wear it under my boxers. But briefs seems to be cheaper and I don’t need to wear an additional underwear to cover my butt… Just asking. I was also recommended compression shorts, but they seem very expensive – not worth the cost.

Response:

Race Report: Columbus Marathon – Limiting Factor?

admin — Fri, 22 Oct 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Ingestion of sodium bicarbonate, also known as baking soda, can result in nausea or diarrhea, that

Milwaukee Lakefront Marathon Race Report (long!)

admin — Fri, 08 Oct 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

2004 Milwaukee Lakefront Marathon Race Report ***Background I ran my first Marathon in Philadelphia in 1983 after my senior season of high school cross country. I had no idea what the hell I was doing, and was further handicapped by the fact that I missed the first Gatorade stop, spilled my cup at the second, and then was shocked to find out that–despite claims that there would be stops every 3 miles–the next chance for fluids was mile 18! I ran those first 18 miles in 2:10, limped through the next six miles while chugging as much Gatorade as possible, then ran well for the last 2 miles to finish in 3:44:59. I swore I’d never do another one. For years, I worked as an ocean lifeguard in the summer and got in at least decent shape in the summer, but when my wife and I decided to start having kids I realized those days were done, so I started doing triathlons. Over several years, I worked up to doing my first Ironman race last year (Wisconsin), which I finished, although it was 90 degrees and humid and I did a *lot* of walking on the run. This year, we had our second child, so an Ironman was not in the cards. I decided to train for a Ultra-Marathon (50 k, or 31 mile) race instead. I registered for the Milwaukee Lakefront Marathon as a last long training run before the ultra. ***Training As often happens when you have two small children, I didn’t get as much training in as I would have liked. I would have preferred to run 3-4 times per week and to bike 2-3 times per week, but I ended up running 2-4 times per week and biking very little (but I did swim once per week or so). I would almost always do a long run on Sunday. For my long runs, I started with about 6 miles in early March and added a mile a week until I got to 10 miles. Then I added 2 miles every two weeks, cutting the distance in half on the in-between weeks. Thus, it looked something like 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 6, 12, 7, 14, 8, 16. By then, I was into triathlon season, so I kept it at 16-8 for a little while. For the other runs, I would try to do a treadmill run at a fast pace (after a warmup), eventually working up to 6:40 miles for 20 minutes. If I was fortunate enough to get another run or two in, they’d usually just be easy recovery runs. I also tried to listen to my body. At least one time I was scheduled for a 16-miler and my legs didn’t feel right about halfway through, so I bagged it and tried again the next week with better results. I did a half-Ironman in mid-July, cutting 50 minutes off my best time and running a 2:06 half-Marathon in the process. I then started doing 18-mile long runs in early August, and did 18-(skipped)-10-18-15-9-20-17-9 and then my race. Oh, and I should note that I run by time, so my distances are approximate. I figured I was running about 10-minute miles in training, but that turned out to be a bit generous. However, the first 18-mile run and the 20-mile run were on measured courses, so I know those distances were accurate. I was quite sore the day after the first 18-miler, but I felt fine after the 20-miler and felt like I could have kept going. ***Gear I ended up taking a big gamble. After my last long run, I decided my shoes felt dead even though they should have had a few more months on them, so I went and bought new shoes the week before the race. I thought I could get away with it because I was going to just get another pair of the Jazz 8 in 12 wide. However, it’s now the Jazz *9*. I tried them out a few times on short runs and decided it was worth the gamble. It was supposed to be a bit cold at the start, near 45, and warming up to around 65 or 70 by the finish. As usual, I obsessed over the details and came up with the following clothing plan: I wore my usual Cool-Max underwear, nylon running shorts, and sleeveless Dri-Fit tank top, but I put a cheap Target-brand wicking T-shirt over it. I cut the bottoms off of some tube socks and put them on my arms as low-budget, disposable arm-warmers. I then threw on a $5 Hanes cotton sweatshirt and matching sweatpants. Finally, I bought a pair of cheap gloves at the race expo for $1. I used a race number belt for my race bib so I could strip off layers without having to mess with my number very much. I tossed the pants just before the start and then stripped off layers throughout the race. I was very comfortable the whole way. I also took a water-bottle carrier with a 24-ounce bottle and a pocket for gels, and I wore a heart-rate monitor. Oh, and I started running with a Cool-Max baseball-style cap about 4 years ago and almost never run without it now. ***Nutrition I ate plenty of carbs and drank lots of water on the day before the race. I had leftover Chinese food with rice for breakfast, then I had "Noodles and Co." for lunch (after which I drove to pick up my packet, where they gave me a coupon for "Noodles and Co."). For dinner, we had a party at my in-laws’ house for my daughter’s first birthday, including two large plates of pasta, some garlic bread, some green beans, and some birthday cake. Before I went to bed, I drank a 24-ounce bottle of Gatorade and ate most of a bagel. When I got up, I immediately went to work topping off my glycogen stores. I ate a Clif bar 3 hours before the race start and drank a bottle of Gatorade. I also took two Endurolyte electrolyte capsules. On the way to the race, I ate half of a bagel and drank more Gatorade. Then, at the start, I ate a banana about an hour before the start, then did a caffeinated Clif Shot gel 30 minutes before the start and a plain gel just before the start. I had 7 gels to take along and a full bottle of Gatorade. I was pretty sure between that, what I’d already eaten, and what was on the course, I would have plenty of fuel. ***The race The race began in Grafton, which is, oh, about 26.2 miles north of Veteran’s park in Milwaukee. We congregated in the high school, where we were peppered with warnings about staying hydrated, but not too hydrated. After negotiating the long lines for the indoor bathrooms–no one wanted to use the outdoor potties in the chill–we made our way out of the building, tossed our "dry clothes bags" onto the USPS truck, and lined up at the start. I remembered just before the start that I hadn’t set my timer to remind me to take my gels, nor had I set the target zone on my heart rate monitor to 135-145 (I estimate my max to be 200, but I think it might even be a bit higher; I haven’t gotten around to doing a formal test yet). They fired the gun, and I started my stopwatch just as I crossed the start line. It felt good to get running, and I got swept up by the crowd a little bit despite really trying to reign in my pace. I was shooting for 10-minute miles, but the big goals were to run every step and to finish feeling strong enough so that I felt good about doing the 50k race three weeks later. In any case, I didn’t want to go faster than 10-minute miles because I wanted this to be a training run. My first mile was 9:25 despite trying to stay at the low end of my heart rate zone. The second was 9:32, which wasn’t much better. By mile 3, I was at 9:50, which was much closer to where I’d wanted it to be. I probably should have lined up a bit further back so I was running with slower people to start with, but I don’t think I did any serious damage. I was *truly* annoyed to find that the first rest stop was out of Gatorade when I came though, not so much because I needed a refill but because it made me worry about whether the rest of the stations would be stocked. I filled my bottle with water while cursing the race organizers. It was around this time that I made a pleasant discovery: a lot of the roads had an unpaved shoulder which was suitable for running. Since I run on trails whenever I can to save my knees, I took advantage of this whenever possible. I’d estimate that you could run at least half the race on unpaved shoulders and grass. I also made an unpleasant discovery at this time, which was that I had to go to the bathroom. I’d figured out at my last half-Ironman that I could tough it out if I needed to, so I decided I’d wait until after the race unless I really needed to stop. It was a little funny to see long lines at the portapotties at the rest stops and literally hundreds of people relieving themselves in the woods, because they were very clear in the race packet that peeing in public was a DQ. If that’s the case, then they should make sure they have enough portapotties so there aren’t lines. Oh, and they said that headphones were not permitted, but probably 15% of the people were wearing headphones. Considering that only the first few miles of the course were completely closed to traffic, wearing headphones was maybe not a good idea. I wonder if this is just one of those things where they say you can’t wear them for liability reasons but then don’t enforce it because they won’t have as many entrants if they DQ people for it. We caught site of Lake Michigan a few times before the course jogged inland. The early miles were fairly scenic, with some farmland and a lot of trees. There were some big houses on the lakefront which were, shall we say, out of my price range. There were a few fans on the course, and one house had some very loud Polka music playing. A couple in front of me stopped to dance for a bit. I did a good job keeping hydrated, refilling my bottle with Gatorade at subsequent aid stations (although I eventually started to cut it with some water because it was getting too think for me). I ended up only using 4 of my 7 gels (one with caffeine) because I really didn’t want them, which I usually take to mean that I don’t need them. I did the last one at about mile 19, so I wasn’t worried about running out of gas. I also took two more Endurolytes at around mile 16. Before the halfway point, I felt a slight bit of … read more »

Response:

Good job to keep it a training run. LoL bro you sure eat a hellva lot more than me before a race. 2 plates of pasta and all that food in the morning before the race – no wonder you had to go to the bathroom. For a long training run I’ll eat more carbs the day before and have a good breakfast, but for a race I will try to completely rest and eat slightly more carbs 2 days out, then the day before a bit more than that, but not overeating. I try to eat a light meal in the morning of a race, a bit of protein some fat, and maybe 80-100gm carbs. For me getting up extra early and making sure you evacuate well before the race is important. You don’t want to feel bloated when racing. Was it windy too or just 45 deg? Sounds like you did a bit of overkill on the layering – unless it was really windy. Your training is a bit like mine in that I’ve run at most 3-4 times a week, usually 3. I also biked 3 times a week at mostly endurance pace for 60-90mins usually. My long runs also were usually 3 weeks apart, and I did my farthest long training run 3 weeks before my 50k race – a 27m+ sojourn on far tougher trails than my race turned out to have. Like you, I was very careful to keep my HR low on the training run, and I felt like I could have run all day at that pace. I felt totally ready for my race, but in retrospect I would have done the longest training run 6 weeks before and a somewhat shorter one 3 weeks before; I had to rest a bit more than planned. Hey, it was summertime and the mountains were beckoning me so I had to do it that way. Good luck in your 50k. I also found that I didn’t use all the gels I took in my 50k race. After about 15 miles I just filled my 20oz bottle with the stuff they were serving (conquest) at every aid station (about every 40mins). A note on walking breaks: instead of planned walking breaks, you might consider letting the terrain tell you when it’s best to walk. I walked all steeper hills, but ran gradual uphills and set my pace by asking my body what pace it could hold for the rest of the race. I did some short walking breaks to settle the legs in the 2nd 1/2 of the race, as needed. Worked pretty well, though that last hour was pretty tough. How hilly is your 50k? – Tony

Response:

2004 Milwaukee Lakefront Marathon Race Report ***Background

Nice report… Thanks! — Les

Response:

I had my usual 2 morning dumps before a race and was fine on that front. I was just very well hydrated, but I figured I could hold it and I was right. But I went for what seemed like 5 minutes when I finally went. For a long training run I’ll eat more carbs the day before and have a good breakfast, but for a race I will try to completely rest and eat slightly more carbs 2 days out, then the day before a bit more than that, but not overeating. I try to eat a light meal in the morning of a race, a bit of protein some fat, and maybe 80-100gm carbs. For me getting up extra early and making sure you evacuate well before the race is important. You don’t want to feel bloated when racing. Was it windy too or just 45 deg? Sounds like you did a bit of overkill on the layering – unless it was really windy.

It was windy, but not too windy. I thought the layering was pretty good, since I just threw stuff away every time I started to feel warm. I might have been able to get away with one fewer layer at the start, but I really didn’t want to get cold waiting for the race to start so I’m glad I had what I did. Good luck in your 50k. I also found that I didn’t use all the gels I took in my 50k race. After about 15 miles I just filled my 20oz bottle with the stuff they were serving (conquest) at every aid station (about every 40mins).

I’ll usually take a gel every 30 minutes on a long training run, but I don’t load up so much beforehand, so I’m not surprised I didn’t want them all. A note on walking breaks: instead of planned walking breaks, you might consider letting the terrain tell you when it’s best to walk. I walked all steeper hills, but ran gradual uphills and set my pace by asking my body what pace it could hold for the rest of the race. I did some short walking breaks to settle the legs in the 2nd 1/2 of the race, as needed. Worked pretty well, though that last hour was pretty tough. How hilly is your 50k?

I’m told it’s hilly, but I’ve been around long enough to know that it’s all relative. I have some decent-sized hills on the trails where I do my long runs, and they never bother me. I’m doing the race with some friends, and we’re definitely going to walk the uphills and throw some other walking in there if the hills aren’t giving us enough walking. I’d explained to my friends that we could probably pass a lot of people if we sprinted all the hills in the first ten miles, but they didn’t like that plan at all. –Harold Buck "I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ." -Homer J. Simpson

Response:

snipsnap< when racing. Was it windy too or just 45 deg? Sounds like you did a bit of overkill on the layering – unless it was really windy. It was windy, but not too windy. I thought the layering was pretty good, since I just threw stuff away every time I started to feel warm. I might have been able to get away with one fewer layer at the start, but I really didn’t want to get cold waiting for the race to start so I’m glad I had what I did.

Different strokes… for both my last long run and my race it was about 50 at the start and I started with a coolmax tee and shorts and had the shirt off within 40 mins or so both times, for the rest of the way. If I’m making the shirt wet with sweat then to me it’s a signal to get rid of it. – T

Response:

2004 Milwaukee Lakefront Marathon Race Report

Harold: Nice, detailed report. Seems like you did a good job of making a plan and sticking with it. When is your ultra? Mike C

Response:

Harold: Great report. I was running Twin Cities as you were running Milwaukee, so I liked the detail of your report. It was welcome relief from the details of my own race, in which I have been engrossed for several days. It sounds like you ran just the race you wanted to. One comment. I wish I could eat gels like you do. Man, after about 2 or 3, I feel like I will wretch. I really think fuel supply is an issue for me, but I just can’t eat that many. Thanks, Harold. Brian Jones – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 2004 Milwaukee Lakefront Marathon Race Report ***Background I ran my first Marathon in Philadelphia in 1983 after my senior season of high school cross country. I had no idea what the hell I was doing, and was further handicapped by the fact that I missed the first Gatorade stop, spilled my cup at the second, and then was shocked to find out that–despite claims that there would be stops every 3 miles–the next chance for fluids was mile 18! I ran those first 18 miles in 2:10, limped through the next six miles while chugging as much Gatorade as possible, then ran well for the last 2 miles to finish in 3:44:59. I swore I’d never do another one. For years, I worked as an ocean lifeguard in the summer and got in at least decent shape in the summer, but when my wife and I decided to start having kids I realized those days were done, so I started doing triathlons. Over several years, I worked up to doing my first Ironman race last year (Wisconsin), which I finished, although it was 90 degrees and humid and I did a *lot* of walking on the run. This year, we had our second child, so an Ironman was not in the cards. I decided to train for a Ultra-Marathon (50 k, or 31 mile) race instead. I registered for the Milwaukee Lakefront Marathon as a last long training run before the ultra. ***Training As often happens when you have two small children, I didn’t get as much training in as I would have liked. I would have preferred to run 3-4 times per week and to bike 2-3 times per week, but I ended up running 2-4 times per week and biking very little (but I did swim once per week or so). I would almost always do a long run on Sunday. For my long runs, I started with about 6 miles in early March and added a mile a week until I got to 10 miles. Then I added 2 miles every two weeks, cutting the distance in half on the in-between weeks. Thus, it looked something like 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 6, 12, 7, 14, 8, 16. By then, I was into triathlon season, so I kept it at 16-8 for a little while. For the other runs, I would try to do a treadmill run at a fast pace (after a warmup), eventually working up to 6:40 miles for 20 minutes. If I was fortunate enough to get another run or two in, they’d usually just be easy recovery runs. I also tried to listen to my body. At least one time I was scheduled for a 16-miler and my legs didn’t feel right about halfway through, so I bagged it and tried again the next week with better results. I did a half-Ironman in mid-July, cutting 50 minutes off my best time and running a 2:06 half-Marathon in the process. I then started doing 18-mile long runs in early August, and did 18-(skipped)-10-18-15-9-20-17-9 and then my race. Oh, and I should note that I run by time, so my distances are approximate. I figured I was running about 10-minute miles in training, but that turned out to be a bit generous. However, the first 18-mile run and the 20-mile run were on measured courses, so I know those distances were accurate. I was quite sore the day after the first 18-miler, but I felt fine after the 20-miler and felt like I could have kept going. ***Gear I ended up taking a big gamble. After my last long run, I decided my shoes felt dead even though they should have had a few more months on them, so I went and bought new shoes the week before the race. I thought I could get away with it because I was going to just get another pair of the Jazz 8 in 12 wide. However, it’s now the Jazz *9*. I tried them out a few times on short runs and decided it was worth the gamble. It was supposed to be a bit cold at the start, near 45, and warming up to around 65 or 70 by the finish. As usual, I obsessed over the details and came up with the following clothing plan: I wore my usual Cool-Max underwear, nylon running shorts, and sleeveless Dri-Fit tank top, but I put a cheap Target-brand wicking T-shirt over it. I cut the bottoms off of some tube socks and put them on my arms as low-budget, disposable arm-warmers. I then threw on a $5 Hanes cotton sweatshirt and matching sweatpants. Finally, I bought a pair of cheap gloves at the race expo for $1. I used a race number belt for my race bib so I could strip off layers without having to mess with my number very much. I tossed the pants just before the start and then stripped off layers throughout the race. I was very comfortable the whole way. I also took a water-bottle carrier with a 24-ounce bottle and a pocket for gels, and I wore a heart-rate monitor. Oh, and I started running with a Cool-Max baseball-style cap about 4 years ago and almost never run without it now. ***Nutrition I ate plenty of carbs and drank lots of water on the day before the race. I had leftover Chinese food with rice for breakfast, then I had "Noodles and Co." for lunch (after which I drove to pick up my packet, where they gave me a coupon for "Noodles and Co."). For dinner, we had a party at my in-laws’ house for my daughter’s first birthday, including two large plates of pasta, some garlic bread, some green beans, and some birthday cake. Before I went to bed, I drank a 24-ounce bottle of Gatorade and ate most of a bagel. When I got up, I immediately went to work topping off my glycogen stores. I ate a Clif bar 3 hours before the race start and drank a bottle of Gatorade. I also took two Endurolyte electrolyte capsules. On the way to the race, I ate half of a bagel and drank more Gatorade. Then, at the start, I ate a banana about an hour before the start, then did a caffeinated Clif Shot gel 30 minutes before the start and a plain gel just before the start. I had 7 gels to take along and a full bottle of Gatorade. I was pretty sure between that, what I’d already eaten, and what was on the course, I would have plenty of fuel. ***The race The race began in Grafton, which is, oh, about 26.2 miles north of Veteran’s park in Milwaukee. We congregated in the high school, where we were peppered with warnings about staying hydrated, but not too hydrated. After negotiating the long lines for the indoor bathrooms–no one wanted to use the outdoor potties in the chill–we made our way out of the building, tossed our "dry clothes bags" onto the USPS truck, and lined up at the start. I remembered just before the start that I hadn’t set my timer to remind me to take my gels, nor had I set the target zone on my heart rate monitor to 135-145 (I estimate my max to be 200, but I think it might even be a bit higher; I haven’t gotten around to doing a formal test yet). They fired the gun, and I started my stopwatch just as I crossed the start line. It felt good to get running, and I got swept up by the crowd a little bit despite really trying to reign in my pace. I was shooting for 10-minute miles, but the big goals were to run every step and to finish feeling strong enough so that I felt good about doing the 50k race three weeks later. In any case, I didn’t want to go faster than 10-minute miles because I wanted this to be a training run. My first mile was 9:25 despite trying to stay at the low end of my heart rate zone. The second was 9:32, which wasn’t much better. By mile 3, I was at 9:50, which was much closer to where I’d wanted it to be. I probably should have lined up a bit further back so I was running with slower people to start with, but I don’t think I did any serious damage. I was *truly* annoyed to find that the first rest stop was out of Gatorade when I came though, not so much because I needed a refill but because it made me worry about whether the rest of the stations would be stocked. I filled my bottle with water while cursing the race organizers. It was around this time that I made a pleasant discovery: a lot of the roads had an unpaved shoulder which was suitable for running. Since I run on trails whenever I can to save my knees, I took advantage of this whenever possible. I’d estimate that you could run at least half the race on unpaved shoulders and grass. I also made an unpleasant discovery at this time, which was that I had to go to the bathroom. I’d figured out at my last half-Ironman that I could tough it out if I needed to, so I decided I’d wait until after the race unless I really needed to stop. It was a little funny to see long lines at the portapotties at the rest stops and literally hundreds of people relieving themselves in the woods, because they were very clear in the race packet that peeing in public was a DQ. If that’s the case, then they should make sure they have enough portapotties so there aren’t lines. Oh, and they said that headphones were not permitted, but probably 15% of the people were wearing headphones. Considering that only the first few miles of the course were completely closed to traffic, wearing headphones was maybe not a good idea. I wonder if this is just one of those things where they say you can’t wear them for liability reasons but then don’t enforce it because they won’t have as many

Response:

2004 Milwaukee Lakefront Marathon Race Report Harold: Nice, detailed report. Seems like you did a good job of making a plan and sticking with it. When is your ultra?

It’s 10/24/04 in Cincinnati. It’s a pretty small race, I think, so I’m glad I’ll be running it with friends. –Harold Buck "I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ." -Homer J. Simpson

Response:

Well, good luck to you…looks like you will do just fine—just remember you will have some residual tiredness from the marathon…as long as you are mentally prepared for the effects of that, you will have not much difficulty. Mike C – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s 10/24/04 in Cincinnati. It’s a pretty small race, I think, so I’m glad I’ll be running it with friends. –Harold Buck

Response:

2004 Milwaukee Lakefront Marathon Race Report

Thanks for the report. Would you recommend the race for a beginner? Jenn

Response:

2004 Milwaukee Lakefront Marathon Race Report Thanks for the report. Would you recommend the race for a beginner?

Well, I would for a beginning *Marathoner*, but not for a beginning runner There were some hills, but nothing brutal. Overall, it was a net downhill, it was *mostly* well supported, it was fun, and it was cheap. It wasn’t too small nor too big. If it works for you geographically and in terms of time of year, I’d say go for it. –Harold Buck "I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ." -Homer J. Simpson

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 2004 Milwaukee Lakefront Marathon Race Report Thanks for the report. Would you recommend the race for a beginner? Well, I would for a beginning *Marathoner*, but not for a beginning runner There were some hills, but nothing brutal. Overall, it was a net downhill, it was *mostly* well supported, it was fun, and it was cheap. It wasn’t too small nor too big. If it works for you geographically and in terms of time of year, I’d say go for it.

Thanks for the info! Technically I’m not a beginning runner anymore. I started in the summer of 2003 after losing (a lot of) weight and went strong until my last race in March 2004. I started having health problems that are now behind me so I’m getting back on the horse so to speak. My goal is to build up enough through the fall and winter to run the same race in March 2005 (5 mi) that I did this year, some 10K’s this spring and summer, and a half marathon in the fall. The full marathon has been a 2006 goal since I started running last year since it’s the year I turn 40 and it will be a cool achievement for me. I’m hoping to do the Grandma’s marathon in Duluth, but it’s very popular and apparently hard to get a spot so I need a backup Jenn

Response:

2004 Milwaukee Lakefront Marathon Race Report

Nice race and report, Harold. Sounds like you had a system worked out and executed well. Congratulations. Dot — "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste away. This is about living the dream." – Cave Dog

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Technically I’m not a beginning runner anymore. I started in the summer of 2003 after losing (a lot of) weight and went strong until my last race in March 2004. I started having health problems that are now behind me so I’m getting back on the horse so to speak. My goal is to build up enough through the fall and winter to run the same race in March 2005 (5 mi) that I did this year, some 10K’s this spring and summer, and a half marathon in the fall. The full marathon has been a 2006 goal since I started running last year since it’s the year I turn 40 and it will be a cool achievement for me. I’m hoping to do the Grandma’s marathon in Duluth, but it’s very popular and apparently hard to get a spot so I need a backup

Grandma’s is tough to get into. There’s also an inline skate race on the same course at a different time. An easy buildup of mileage is the way to go. If you add a little to your long run every week and make sure you always get your long runs in, you should be able to get there! –Harold Buck "I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ." -Homer J. Simpson

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Technically I’m not a beginning runner anymore. I started in the summer of 2003 after losing (a lot of) weight and went strong until my last race in March 2004. I started having health problems that are now behind me so I’m getting back on the horse so to speak. My goal is to build up enough through the fall and winter to run the same race in March 2005 (5 mi) that I did this year, some 10K’s this spring and summer, and a half marathon in the fall. The full marathon has been a 2006 goal since I started running last year since it’s the year I turn 40 and it will be a cool achievement for me. I’m hoping to do the Grandma’s marathon in Duluth, but it’s very popular and apparently hard to get a spot so I need a backup Grandma’s is tough to get into. There’s also an inline skate race on the same course at a different time. An easy buildup of mileage is the way to go. If you add a little to your long run every week and make sure you always get your long runs in, you should be able to get there!

Thanks for the encouragement! I’ve learned a lot just being a long-time lurker in this group and have a decent winter running wardrobe thanks to Donovan and Dot. My plan for Grandma’s is to register for 2006 as soon as the registrations open – something like the fall of 2005. It’s full by January for the June race. Jenn

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Yeah, you have to plan ahead. For Ironman races these days, they almost all fill up in around 24 hours. Of course, you can do a generic Ironman-distance race with almost no lead time at all, for about half the price. In any case, it’s nice to be committed a long way out; it has a large motivational effect. –Harold Buck "I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ." -Homer J. Simpson

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -A note on walking breaks: instead of planned walking breaks, you might consider letting the terrain tell you when it’s best to walk. I walked all steeper hills, but ran gradual uphills and set my pace by asking my body what pace it could hold for the rest of the race. I did some short walking breaks to settle the legs in the 2nd 1/2 of the race, as needed. Worked pretty well, though that last hour was pretty tough. How hilly is your 50k? I’m told it’s hilly, but I’ve been around long enough to know that it’s all relative.

Are you talking about the Chicago Lakefront 50/50? From the web page: http://www.chicagoultra.org/ "Consists of 3 out-and-back segments. The races follow the Lakefront running path. Mostly asphalt with some concrete sections. One of the flattest 50k and 50Mile courses in North America. The current 50 mi. world record was set on Chicago’s lakefront in 1984. " Sounds flat as grandma’s butt. Unless it also has some dirt on the sides of the sections, this is road 50k. In general for the long stuff. Your bread a butter is the long run and learn to think about running for time(in hours) not miles but in hours. Time on your feet is what counts. -DougF

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Worked pretty well, though that last hour was pretty tough. How hilly is your 50k? I’m told it’s hilly, but I’ve been around long enough to know that it’s all relative. Are you talking about the Chicago Lakefront 50/50? From the web page: http://www.chicagoultra.org/

Nope, I think that’s a week later. I’m doing the Stone Steps 50k in Cincinnate. In general for the long stuff. Your bread a butter is the long run and learn to think about running for time(in hours) not miles but in hours. Time on your feet is what counts.

Yeah, that’s kind of how I had been looking at it. However, how do you know how long you’ll need to be on your feet without occasionally gauging your pace in miles per hour? –Harold Buck "I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ." -Homer J. Simpson

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Yeah, that’s kind of how I had been looking at it. However, how do you know how long you’ll need to be on your feet without occasionally gauging your pace in miles per hour?

You are going to do your first 50k and you have no history so pace is a blurr. To look at your road marathon time and attempt to prorate is not acccurate either. I would try to get a few 3.5 to 4 hour training runs to match the terrain of the race. That will get you to the finish line. Add some mid-week tempo or farlek to help with general pace. These runs are a series of run walk with pacetakinf you into the 9-14 minute/mile. I know not much help other than time on your feet. It gets to the point that pace is something that is calculated after the race and not before. -DF

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Reply-To: "Doug Freese" I would try to get a few 3.5 to 4 hour training runs to match the terrain of the race.

Very key point of advice: matching as close as possible the terrain you will actually be racing on. If possible, run some of the race course to get familiar with it. If the race is full of ups and downs, train that way. If there are long, gradual hills, both up and down, be sure you incorporate long, gradual hills into your regimen—particularly if there are long downhills…those can be tremendously tough on the legs. You might be at a point, as your race is coming up in the very near future, where there is not a whole lot you can do to improve fitness—you’re recovering from a marathon effort, after all—so be careful with how much training you do between now and Ultra day. But based on what you have written thus far in terms of prep and planning, that should be not much of an issue…just pay attention to pacing, especially early on. Another poster mentioned using the course terrain to dictate when you might walk as opposed to sticking to certain time segments (running 25/walking 5, for example)….if your course is very hilly, let the uphills guide your bouts of walking. Again, very good luck to you Harold. Mike C

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Reply-To: "Doug Freese" I would try to get a few 3.5 to 4 hour training runs to match the terrain of the race. Very key point of advice: matching as close as possible the terrain you will actually be racing on. If possible, run some of the race course to get familiar with it.

Well, I can’t do that, but I’ve done most of my long runs on trails with the biggest hills available where I live, so I guess I’ve done what I can there. If the race is full of ups and downs, train that way. If there are long, gradual hills, both up and down, be sure you incorporate long, gradual hills into your regimen—particularly if there are long downhills…those can be tremendously tough on the legs. You might be at a point, as your race is coming up in the very near future, where there is not a whole lot you can do to improve fitness—you’re recovering from a marathon effort, after all—so be careful with how much training you do between now and Ultra day.

Yeah, I’ve been taking it easy this week. I was thinking about doing an easy hour tomorrow and an easy 2 hours Wednesday, then nothing over 45 minutes until race day. Does that sound like a reasonable plan (it gives me about 11 days between the 2-hour run and the ultra). But based on what you have written thus far in terms of prep and planning, that should be not much of an issue…just pay attention to pacing, especially early on. Another poster mentioned using the course terrain to dictate when you might walk as opposed to sticking to certain time segments (running 25/walking 5, for example)….if your course is very hilly, let the uphills guide your bouts of walking. Again, very good luck to you Harold.

Thanks! And same to you for your upcoming short race –Harold Buck "I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ." -Homer J. Simpson

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Depends on how the legs feel during that 2 hours…okay, not a real good answer—I would take the 2 hours very slowly and listen very closely to your body. No doubt you will feel some residual fatigue from the marathon, and you will still have some residual carryover in terms of physiological benefits from the 26.2 mile training run (!) so I would not push very hard at all on that 2 hour run….and cut it short if you start to feel like you’re digging into your reserves. Again, very good luck to you Harold. Thanks! And same to you for your upcoming short race

Thanks. Just a long training day…! Mike C

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Thanks! And same to you for your upcoming short race Thanks. Just a long training day…!

. . . .with catering! –Harold Buck "I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ." -Homer J. Simpson

Response:

snip< Yeah, I’ve been taking it easy this week. I was thinking about doing an easy hour tomorrow and an easy 2 hours Wednesday, then nothing over 45 minutes until race day. Does that sound like a reasonable plan (it gives me about 11 days between the 2-hour run and the ultra).

Before my 50k, in addition to shorter runs, I did two medium length runs (about 80 mins) one 11 days before and one 7 days before. All your long training is done, so don’t feel like you have to go 2 hours. Your goal now is to make sure you’re rested and to sharpen a bit if possible. I tried to work on my 50k race pace in those 2 runs, based on HR. I didn’t hold that pace for the entire runs, but both were pretty hard fartleks. 11 days should be fine to recover from a 2 hour if you want to go that way, provided you don’t have lingering fatigue from the marathon. – Tony

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For the guys

admin — Wed, 22 Sep 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Are you a county inspector ? You haven’t been "educating" Roger again, have you ? Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

i jack off on w face

That’s sick John, you should do it on his wifes face, not his. This defeniately means your a homo.

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Why are you always complaining about these miniscule, teeny, tiny, itsy, bitsy, microscopic problems?

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Hope that helps. http://www.mcstories.com/WelcomeToMorningWood/ _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!

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Wobbit, Wobbit! I told you I was lost in the wood! You paid me no heed. It’s all hopeless now. http://www.cr-shirts.com/MorningWood.html _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!

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Or check out mygood freind Nancy Hathaway

I’d like too… so just how good a *friends* are you too?

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It said: For those who are determined to see some morning wood for themselves, they should seek out their local county building inspector and ask to see some samples of morning wood. Most county inspectors are glad to help educate the public on this matter. Man our towns building inspector is ooooooooooooolllllllld, and NOBODY wants to see him with a boner, although rumor has it he does let it "ventilate itself" in public.

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i jack off on w face

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How do you hide a morning woodie when you’re wearing running shorts? I can’t possibly be the only guy sporting wood at the start of a race? Woody

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<< How do you hide a morning woodie when you’re wearing running shorts? get your gf to suck you off first. it might go away, with her help. _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!

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Hope that helps. http://www.getodd.com/stuf/morngwood.html _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!

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How do you hide a morning woodie when you’re wearing running shorts?

Why hide it? Set him free.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -How do you hide a morning woodie when you’re wearing running shorts? I can’t possibly be the only guy sporting wood at the start of a race? Woody

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<< I can’t possibly be the only guy sporting wood at the start of a race? Woody

See: Ovid. Hope that helps. Or check out mygood freind Nancy Hathaway’s excellent book, "The Friendly Guide to Mythology." (Viking) _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!

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<< << How do you hide a morning woodie when you’re wearing running shorts? by the way, how big is it? got any pics? i wanna see. _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!

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from kitz: weirdness abounds.

admin — Fri, 27 Aug 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

kitzneg…@aol.com (kitznegari thinks it has wings) wrote in news:20040827205217.13589.00003790@mb-m12.aol.com: > what do i do?

Don’t mention your crush on Ronald Reagan.

Response:

to prevent reoccurences, remove your windshield Ms Pnoopie Pnats in news:MPG.1b99cd1eb3630d23989cca@news.alt.net: > In article <20040827205217.13589.00003…@mb-m12.aol.com>, > kitzneg…@aol.com says… >> i went out to my car on my way to teach class tonight and there’s a >> piece of paper under my windshield wiper. i’ve had problems with the >> grouchy old codger next door, so i get out expecting to find a >> complaint about somthing. instead it’s this note, written on the >> back of a receipt that says: >> HEY, >> I to am >> from Oregon >> GIVE ME >> A CALL >> 513 561 **** >> AARON

hmmm…. well… your first challenge is to decrypt those 4 asterisks. if you simply dial 4 asterisks, who knows which car bomb will detonate. too risky. :> >> this is the STRANGEST thing in the world. i am not from oregon, i >> thought, as i read it. and then i realized where he got that from… >> i have a tiny oregon license plate hanging from my rear view mirror >> that i got out of a cereal box or something several years ago…

i, too, am from snap crackle pop… it >> reminded me of my trip across the states to see the state myself, but >> on the whole i was only there a week, grand total. >> as a whole you can tell a lot about me by looking inside my car, >> really. like, there are stuffed animals all over the backseat.

i, too, am from a zoo. raised by hyenas, in fact. which zoo are you from? ? i’ve >> got my little totoro cartoon guy on the rear view, a piece of a belt >> that one of the masters gave me way back when i was a red belt, an >> incubus pin, a john kerry pin,

i too am from kerry. http://www.fleshbot.com/archives/alexandra-kerry-in-cannes-004097.php {yow} no… maybe i’m from a pin… a little luke skywalker action figure >> glued to the dashboard, my role playing dice and character sheets for >> ninjas (with pictures) are in the front seat along with several >> martial arts books and a pair of running shorts is on the passenger >> side floor because you never know when i’m going to crave the gym. >> there is also a rainbow sticker on the back window (kind of a "fuck >> you, i support gay people and straight people and ugly people and >> midgets and all" sort of statement), a zombie bunny sticker >> ("horrible. hideous. fluffy.")

i *too* am from a zombie bunny… but raised by hyenas later. on the bumper along side a slipknot >> sticker. bean’s side window has a "zoo member" window cling and a >> window cling of a spider as big as your fist. so yeah, i can see how >> someone could extrapolate that i’m from oregon with all that >> political and hug-the-earth crap around.

granola hippie! what a coincidence! i too am from the earth.. or so i’ve been told… (by little green men) >> anyway, it’s obviously someone in my building, but WHO? there are >> two hottish guys that just moved in on the top floor (they look like >> college guys but i couldn’t tell because they were on the balcony and >> i didn’t have my glasses on) and they were watching bean and i play >> out by the pool two days ago… is it them? i doubt it. hot guys >> and me don’t mix. >> has this person even seen me, or are they just really super bold and >> nuts about their home state? how do they know they’re not talking to >> some old fart? ^ ^ ^

^ ^ ah, seriously. you just latched on the significant aspect. >> whoever it is… do they REALLY expect me to CALL them?!

is it that expensive to call oregon!? :> > i am >> terrified! what if it’s some mean old crazy person.

then relax. the note-depositer mistook you for an old fart. :> but i hope the depositer don’t respond murderously, in the throes of their disappointment, when they discover you’re that young babe, not the old fart. > i don’t even >> know but two of the people that live here. >> but on the other hand, what if i am passing up something good/fun? >> this is a very weird thing to have happen. >> what do i do?

seriously again… ‘aaron’ should have said where you’d know him from!! aaron’s brainless (i *too* am from brainless… ah, nevermind) he couldn’t even spell his phone number correctly! >> – k i t z – >> http://www.livejournal.com/users/kitznegari >> coming soon: http://forkflungpork.willkill.us

just ask, "how far?" http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=1 &q=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3825221.stm&e=8092 > that happened to me one time years ago. I was in an arcade and came > out to my car and there was a note on my car. the guy wanted to ask me > out and it turns out it was someone from in the arcade I had seen > around. I went out with him a couple of times and it was fine.

you *are* an unusual person… >so it > is most likely someone you know or have seen around. > I wonder what you can tell from the inside of my car. Jar of peanut > butter and jelly in the back seat.

but no poop there? ok, that decides it. meet me on my doorstep! (or do i have to invite you by leaving a note on your windshield?) :> — Win one for the Gollum. http://www.councilofelrond.com/modules.php? op=modload&name=Subjects&file=index&req=viewpage&pageid=38

Response:

In article <20040827205217.13589.00003…@mb-m12.aol.com>, kitzneg…@aol.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> i went out to my car on my way to teach class tonight and there’s a piece of > paper under my windshield wiper. i’ve had problems with the grouchy old codger > next door, so i get out expecting to find a complaint about somthing. instead > it’s this note, written on the back of a receipt that says: > HEY, > I to am > from Oregon > GIVE ME > A CALL > 513 561 **** > AARON > this is the STRANGEST thing in the world. i am not from oregon, i thought, as > i read it. and then i realized where he got that from… i have a tiny oregon > license plate hanging from my rear view mirror that i got out of a cereal box > or something several years ago… it reminded me of my trip across the states > to see the state myself, but on the whole i was only there a week, grand total. > as a whole you can tell a lot about me by looking inside my car, really. like, > there are stuffed animals all over the backseat. i’ve got my little totoro > cartoon guy on the rear view, a piece of a belt that one of the masters gave me > way back when i was a red belt, an incubus pin, a john kerry pin, a little luke > skywalker action figure glued to the dashboard, my role playing dice and > character sheets for ninjas (with pictures) are in the front seat along with > several martial arts books and a pair of running shorts is on the passenger > side floor because you never know when i’m going to crave the gym. there is > also a rainbow sticker on the back window (kind of a "fuck you, i support gay > people and straight people and ugly people and midgets and all" sort of > statement), a zombie bunny sticker ("horrible. hideous. fluffy.") on the > bumper along side a slipknot sticker. bean’s side window has a "zoo member" > window cling and a window cling of a spider as big as your fist. so yeah, i can > see how someone could extrapolate that i’m from oregon with all that political > and hug-the-earth crap around. > anyway, it’s obviously someone in my building, but WHO? there are two hottish > guys that just moved in on the top floor (they look like college guys but i > couldn’t tell because they were on the balcony and i didn’t have my glasses on) > and they were watching bean and i play out by the pool two days ago… is it > them? i doubt it. hot guys and me don’t mix. > has this person even seen me, or are they just really super bold and nuts about > their home state? how do they know they’re not talking to some old fart? > whoever it is… do they REALLY expect me to CALL them?! i am terrified! what > if it’s some mean old crazy person. i don’t even know but two of the people > that live here. > but on the other hand, what if i am passing up something good/fun? > this is a very weird thing to have happen. > what do i do? > – k i t z – > http://www.livejournal.com/users/kitznegari > coming soon: http://forkflungpork.willkill.us

that happened to me one time years ago. I was in an arcade and came out to my car and there was a note on my car. the guy wanted to ask me out and it turns out it was someone from in the arcade I had seen around. I went out with him a couple of times and it was fine. so it is most likely someone you know or have seen around. I wonder what you can tell from the inside of my car. Jar of peanut butter and jelly in the back seat.

Response:

i went out to my car on my way to teach class tonight and there’s a piece of paper under my windshield wiper. i’ve had problems with the grouchy old codger next door, so i get out expecting to find a complaint about somthing. instead it’s this note, written on the back of a receipt that says: HEY, I to am from Oregon GIVE ME A CALL 513 561 **** AARON this is the STRANGEST thing in the world. i am not from oregon, i thought, as i read it. and then i realized where he got that from… i have a tiny oregon license plate hanging from my rear view mirror that i got out of a cereal box or something several years ago… it reminded me of my trip across the states to see the state myself, but on the whole i was only there a week, grand total. as a whole you can tell a lot about me by looking inside my car, really. like, there are stuffed animals all over the backseat. i’ve got my little totoro cartoon guy on the rear view, a piece of a belt that one of the masters gave me way back when i was a red belt, an incubus pin, a john kerry pin, a little luke skywalker action figure glued to the dashboard, my role playing dice and character sheets for ninjas (with pictures) are in the front seat along with several martial arts books and a pair of running shorts is on the passenger side floor because you never know when i’m going to crave the gym. there is also a rainbow sticker on the back window (kind of a "fuck you, i support gay people and straight people and ugly people and midgets and all" sort of statement), a zombie bunny sticker ("horrible. hideous. fluffy.") on the bumper along side a slipknot sticker. bean’s side window has a "zoo member" window cling and a window cling of a spider as big as your fist. so yeah, i can see how someone could extrapolate that i’m from oregon with all that political and hug-the-earth crap around. anyway, it’s obviously someone in my building, but WHO? there are two hottish guys that just moved in on the top floor (they look like college guys but i couldn’t tell because they were on the balcony and i didn’t have my glasses on) and they were watching bean and i play out by the pool two days ago… is it them? i doubt it. hot guys and me don’t mix. has this person even seen me, or are they just really super bold and nuts about their home state? how do they know they’re not talking to some old fart? whoever it is… do they REALLY expect me to CALL them?! i am terrified! what if it’s some mean old crazy person. i don’t even know but two of the people that live here. but on the other hand, what if i am passing up something good/fun? this is a very weird thing to have happen. what do i do? – k i t z – http://www.livejournal.com/users/kitznegari coming soon: http://forkflungpork.willkill.us

Response:

Devil O' the Highlands race report

admin — Sun, 08 Aug 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Fantastic race. Don’t miss it. Ran better than expected and finished in 8:25:13 for 43 mile hilly trail race. That is just under two hours after the winner (who ran a race record) and only 45 minutes after the best female! Congrulations, you really seem to have found your true m

open letter to Champion: the best jockstrap for running disappearing from stores

admin — Wed, 23 Jun 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Try here: http://www.roadrunnersports.com/cgi-bin/rrs/rrs/ProductPg.jsp?basePro… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Office of the President Champion Athletic Underwear 475 Corporate Square Drive Winston-Salem, NC 27105 Dear Sir or Madam; As an avid runner, skier, climber, and aspiring triathlete, I appreciate the extraordinary comfort and support of the Champion Cool-Jock athletic supporter. No other product on the market offers as much support in a streamlined minimalistic design comfortable enough to be worn for extended periods of time. Under sport tights, they are virtually invisible. Friends I’ve introduced to the Cool-Jock second my opinion. Why then, is it so difficult to find Cool-Jocks? To the best of my knowledge, no store in my state presently sells them, although many sell other Champion bras, sportswear, socks, etc. One large chain has an entire floor-to-ceiling display some 15 feet long devoted to athletic supporters, but no Cool-Jocks. When I’ve had to replace some that wore out after long service in the past, I was forced to buy them mail-order from Road Runner Sports in San Diego. However, recently Road Runner subsituted a private brand which is not nearly as good. Since I am not only an amateur athlete, but also a former running specialty store manager, I am uniquely qualified to comment on this issue. My store always carried a full line of men’s support products including JB sports briefs and jockstraps. Since the built-in liners found in most running shorts don’t do an adequate job of support, (and sport tights don’t have anything at all), we found "designer" jockstraps an easy add-on sale, adding $10 to $20 to a $20 shorts purchase. By displaying one on a mannequin located near the men’s shorts, rather than on a wall with socks and accessories, we sold 50 to 100 a month! The entire JB (JogBra) line was also available from most other sports retailers in the area. Therefore, when Champion acquired the JB line, I was surprised to find men’s products disappearing from stores, since we always felt the most negative thing about the JB Max jocks was the female oriented "JogBra" name. I recognize that both retail sales personnel and your sales representatives may be somewhat hesitant to actively promote intimate items such as athletic supporters. Also, traditional athletic supporters seem to have fallen into disfavor. But the need and market for advanced technology men’s support products such as the Cool-Jock remains, much as it does for JogBras for women. It would be a shame to let such a fine product die when there are no viable alternatives in the marketplace. Yet, your lack of promotion and marketing instinctively tells me that could be a real possibility. Please don’t leave us unsupported.

Response:

Office of the President Champion Athletic Underwear 475 Corporate Square Drive Winston-Salem, NC 27105 Dear Sir or Madam; As an avid runner, skier, climber, and aspiring triathlete, I appreciate the extraordinary comfort and support of the Champion Cool-Jock athletic supporter. No other product on the market offers as much support in a streamlined minimalistic design comfortable enough to be worn for extended periods of time. Under sport tights, they are virtually invisible. Friends I’ve introduced to the Cool-Jock second my opinion. Why then, is it so difficult to find Cool-Jocks? To the best of my knowledge, no store in my state presently sells them, although many sell other Champion bras, sportswear, socks, etc. One large chain has an entire floor-to-ceiling display some 15 feet long devoted to athletic supporters, but no Cool-Jocks. When I’ve had to replace some that wore out after long service in the past, I was forced to buy them mail-order from Road Runner Sports in San Diego. However, recently Road Runner subsituted a private brand which is not nearly as good. Since I am not only an amateur athlete, but also a former running specialty store manager, I am uniquely qualified to comment on this issue. My store always carried a full line of men’s support products including JB sports briefs and jockstraps. Since the built-in liners found in most running shorts don’t do an adequate job of support, (and sport tights don’t have anything at all), we found "designer" jockstraps an easy add-on sale, adding $10 to $20 to a $20 shorts purchase. By displaying one on a mannequin located near the men’s shorts, rather than on a wall with socks and accessories, we sold 50 to 100 a month! The entire JB (JogBra) line was also available from most other sports retailers in the area. Therefore, when Champion acquired the JB line, I was surprised to find men’s products disappearing from stores, since we always felt the most negative thing about the JB Max jocks was the female oriented "JogBra" name. I recognize that both retail sales personnel and your sales representatives may be somewhat hesitant to actively promote intimate items such as athletic supporters. Also, traditional athletic supporters seem to have fallen into disfavor. But the need and market for advanced technology men’s support products such as the Cool-Jock remains, much as it does for JogBras for women. It would be a shame to let such a fine product die when there are no viable alternatives in the marketplace. Yet, your lack of promotion and marketing instinctively tells me that could be a real possibility. Please don’t leave us unsupported.

Response:

open letter to Champion: best runner's jockstrap disappearring from stores

admin — Wed, 23 Jun 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Response:

Great letter. We all feel the same way,(Those of us who like these jocks) Did they respond to you??

Response:

Good surf/swim shorts to buy?

admin — Tue, 22 Jun 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Getting ready to go to Cancun. Need some good swim and beach trunks Patagonia used to make something called River shorts. Very heavy duty short made of polyester. But I cant find them any more Any other opinions on shorts you like?

Response:

They’re making Birdwell Beach Britches again… http://www.birdwellbeachbritches.com/ These used to last forever! — Keith __ Never test the depth of the water with both feet.

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They’re making Birdwell Beach Britches again… http://www.birdwellbeachbritches.com/ These used to last forever!

Interesting!! I have never heard of them. Are they as great as they make out to be?

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Surf Runners by Speedo. Can be used for swimming or running. Bathing suit cut like running shorts. Mesh lining for good ventilation, cotton or fast dry poly. Available in tropical prints or solid colors. Some come with internal Velcro case for key, credit card or other stuff you need with you. I’ve had mine since 1986. In Cancun you don’t have to be too concerned with durability. The island of Cozumel and coral reefs cut down on surf. It’s more like a salt water swimming pool. — To email me, Edit "xt" from my email address. Brian M. Kochera "Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once!" View My Web Page: http://home.earthlink.net/~brian1951

Response:

Yep. Almost indestructible. I see they have some other fabrics available, but stick with their original stuff. It’s tough, a bit stiff, but can’t be beat. I’m serious… if you buy a couple of pair, you should be set for life. — Keith __ "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." … Albert Einstein

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They’re making Birdwell Beach Britches again… http://www.birdwellbeachbritches.com/ These used to last forever! Interesting!! I have never heard of them. Are they as great as they make out to be?

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Thanks!! I just hope I can get them ordered and here within 8 days!! Dang I wait too late to get things done sometimes!!

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Do they have a fairly long inseam? Or are they cut short? Im 46 and don’t look so good in something real short inseam. LOL

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Getting ready to go to Cancun. Need some good swim and beach trunks Patagonia used to make something called River shorts. Very heavy duty short made of polyester. But I cant find them any more Any other opinions on shorts you like? Surf Runners by Speedo. Can be used for swimming or running. Bathing suit cut like running shorts. Mesh lining for good ventilation, cotton or fast dry poly. Available in tropical prints or solid colors. Some come with internal Velcro case for key, credit card or other stuff you need with you. I’ve had mine since 1986. In Cancun you don’t have to be too concerned with durability. The island of Cozumel and coral reefs cut down on surf. It’s more like a salt water swimming pool.

I also reccommend you check out Speedo.. They sell many styles, not just the Banana Hammocks you may associate the name with!

Response:

They sell many styles, not just the Banana Hammocks you may associate the name with!

Haha! Thanks that made me laugh!!

Response:

rec.running war stories: your most memorable run

admin — Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I run one local "hill" which is 500 feet/mile and 5 miles long and it’s a nice pull. 1,000 per mile would be a bear. Now I see where you get your speed/strength from. — Doug Freese "Caveat Lector"

Response:

We started at 6:30, and after a half hour or so, got into a good rhythm, about 17:30/mile pace.

I hike 14′ers at 3 mph. I dont have to worry about tripping over rocks, and can enjoy the scenery. My main purpose of runing to be in shape to hike fast in high mountains. Then a strange thing happened to me at about mirror lake–I started listing to the left, which really did a number to my already precarious balancing act. Must be some kind of inner ear thing.

I’ve "hit the wall" on Whitney and other very long hikes. Around six hours or 18 miles in the hike I start feeling rather fatigued. Thew secret to altitude work is gradual conditioning. The snow season is near the end in the Rockies. FIrst do a couple of treeline hikes at 12,000 then some 13ers then 14ers. No headaches or nausea then.

Response:

Used to get up there myself, being an alum. I still recall seeing an occasional wooly black tarantula sauntering across the paths! This was a good place to go for a run, or for a few beers and some star-gazing after hours. The Stanford Observatory was a hangout of mine for a time.

Response:

Hi Donovan: If you like hills, the Mt. Baldy 50k east of L.A. (my favorite race) has two big climbs: 6,000 ft of climb in 6 miles, topping out at 10,032′ elevation (miles 2 – 8), and 4,000 ft of climb in 4 miles to the same peak (miles 15 – 19) I run it every few weeks ( when runnable: it’s still snowed in) to grow some red blood cells. –Dan Stumpus

Response:

About half of my 8,000 runs in the last 27 years were in the foothills behind Stanford. Before they they closed most of it off, it was a wonderland of grasslands, hills, and lakes. Not to mention crabby cows and poison oak. Some rare days you’d have extraordinary weather conditions. For example, seeing the glass buildings of San Fansico rise above a cotton blanket of fog like a fairy city in the clouds. And then have the sunrise light them on fire like torches. I’ve made it a point to run in scenic areas of national parks. There have been many breath-stealing scenes around a bend or over a rise.

Response:

You guys were hiking, or were you running?

hiking. I’m thinking that running must exaggerate the altitude effects greatly. Have been packing and hiking well over 12,000 feet a number of times without much effect, but haven’t tried "running" at that elevation as far as I can recall.

i guess so. if you’re running, you get relatively less time to acclimatize. not to mention the extra stress on the body due to running uphill. but my point was that even though you could train for whitney by going up 10,000 ft summits twice a month, it is not guaranteed to be helpful at 14,000 ft. this is regardless of whether you’re running or hiking. jobs

Response:

I think I’m giving up on the Fourteeners–every time I get above 13,000, dizziness overcomes me. I run a 10,000′ peak every couple of weeks with no problems at all. This harrowing tale of Dan’s is kinda scary — you’d think altitude would be something you could train for, and it sounds like he does train for it — but it seems he gets hit with the vertigo, dizziness and imbalance

nonetheless! An experienced climber friend said that he had the dizziness/balance problem but it went away when he did 4 or 5 weekends of climbing/hiking at 13-14,000′. I run Mt. Baldy (10,000) regularly in the spring and summer. I even led the Baldy Peaks 50k race to the top of the mtn in 2002, and felt strong. That isn’t high enough to do it, and you’re only in the 9000+ elevations for an hour and a half or so. I have to admit, that would freak me out enough that I’d probably have asked a doctor to check me out. Have you done that, Dan?

No. I figured I just pushed myself too hard. I worked the mountain very hard, pulse was 170+ for much of the way up, pulse pounding in my ears, and I was hyperventilating at the top. This is not good for the brain, by the way. Since all symptoms cleared up by the time I got down to 4,500′ I figured it was AMS (acute mountain sickness). –Dan

Response:

No. I figured I just pushed myself too hard.

Yeh. No kidding ("Then a strange thing happened to me at about mirror lake–I started listing to the left."). Well, I guess you never know your limits until you cross over them, eh?

Response:

my story might pale in comparison to most, but i’ll never forget a summer run i did a few years ago. it started bucketing down rain only a few minutes into the run, but i kept on going. and this was to be a long run of about an hour and a half to two hours. when i got to about the half way point, i decided that it was time to stop under a shelter near the beach to wring out my socks and shirt. with all of the others seeking refuge there – watching me do this. okaaaaay. then i set off again, and the rain only came down harder. and lightning was flashing around me. it was a bit scary but mostly just a wild run. that’s when i somehow learned to enjoy running in rain! guess i went a bit looney that day. and as i neared home i realized that the wet fabric of my shirt, heavy with rainwater, had rubbed against my nipples to point of making them bleed. yuck. it didn’t hurt but it freaked me out a bit. and i guess that run was what sorta toughened me up for my first marathon, which took place in a heavy rainstorm. it wasn’t so hard to get through that after all. Cam

Response:

Inspired by a trip to San Francisco, I came up with this topic. So, rec.runners, tell us about your favourite training run. You may choose to either describe a particular run you only performed once in a crazy moment of inspiration, or you may describe your favourite running route of all time or a particularly interesting race that you entered, though I have a slight preference for training runs since we already had a racing thread. Will post more about my running in San Francisco later today…

After the first two days of the conference, my colleagues had for the most part had some time to explore San Francisco. So I decided to take "bids" on insanely steep hills from everyone — I asked everyone where the best hills were. I was staying near Embarcadero center. I had the following input: (1) West bound up California Street, to the top of Nob hill. This was long hill with slope increasing from moderate to insane. (2) Nob hill approaching from the South. A steep climb. (3) Lombard Street. As it happened, it was possible to incorporate these 3 in the one run (in the above order). So off I went. First I decided I was going to do these like intervals, running pretty hard. So the first hill was California Street. Nice way to get started. It was much like a typical San Francisco hill. Everywhere else in the world, hills gradually increase slope, then slope up at a uniform grade, then slowly flatten out. In San Francisco, the grade keeps increasing — first it is much like a normal hill, and then the hill will increase in grade to the point of insanity, and it will not flatten out until you’re almost at the Summit. From the plane, parts of the landscape looked like a piece of paper that had been crumpled and then flattened out. So by the time I was midway through California Street, I was running right up on the balls of my feet, much like one does during a sprint. It is simply not possible to midfoot strike up these hills, they are too steep. Next on the menu was Nob Hill from the South. I broke this up into blocks and ran it in strides, one or two blocks at a time to accomodate the traffic lights. But the best was yet to come. I continued North until I ran into Lombard Street. When I got there, I was on a Summit, just above the part where it winds. Lombard Street goes up what is one of the most insane hills even in San Francisco. It is so steep that there is a block of it where the road zig-zags its way up the hill to avoid the impossible slope. Because it really is zig-zagging, and not a gentle back-and-forth cut across the face of the hill, the grade is still quite good. I started a block before the windy part. One thing I liked about this hill was that there was no cross-traffic to worry about, so I could run it quickly from top to bottom. By the time I did this, I was dead tired, but then when I hit the flats and downhills, I was flying with very little effort. Apparently, I’ve dug up grade information. It looks like I didn’t get the steepest grades, but I did get some of the better ones. http://www.sfvisitor.org/travelmedia/press.asp?rid=98 Lombard: 18% Nob Hill South: 22.2% Despite the fact that Lombard was "only" 18%, the clear run over two blocks (the block before the winding is also pretty steep) and the fact that the winding makes the block a little longer made that one a winner. Hyde Street likewise gets into the early 20s, one of the first hills there that I tried. Based on the above URL it looks like there are a couple of blocks that go into the 30s, I suppose I’ll have to go back there some time … Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

Speaking of SF, I ran the US Half Marathon in SF last October and happened to take a throw away camera which resulted in the following interesting picture: http://www.latimes.com/features/outdoors/la-os-featweek4nov04-hnmz42k… 4744.photo or http://runsf.com/ The only race I know of which goes over, under, and around the Golden Gate Bridge. I highly recommend it!! Steve S.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Inspired by a trip to San Francisco, I came up with this topic. So, rec.runners, tell us about your favourite training run. You may choose to either describe a particular run you only performed once in a crazy moment of inspiration, or you may describe your favourite running route of all time or a particularly interesting race that you entered, though I have a slight preference for training runs since we already had a racing thread. Will post more about my running in San Francisco later today… Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

Looks like a nice course. I had the opportunity to run around that area, along the waterfront, though I only got as far as the foot of the Golden Gate (was staying at the Embarcadero center) Must say the race looks pretty tempting even if it is on the other side of the country. Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

It was the time I went running with an old running partner who for our whole lives had been my inspiration to run, and we had this brutal trail route that was under power lines, and was pure up and doiwn hills, and he used to take great delight in running circles around me (literally) while I gasped for breath. Then after not seeing him for 5 years, we met up and decided to give the old course a run. Well little did he know I’d run that course almost 3x a week for years, and I was ready, he wasn’t… I don’t ever remember so completely dominating anyone in a race. I absolutely danced around him, ran backwards, and LMAO at him while he turned blue. Afterwards he made no excuses, and he congratulated me on my conditionig, and on how far I’d come since my 3 pack a day habit. It was a triumphant moment, my "white moment". I saw him the other day after 12 years, driving his cab, puffing on a marlboro, 30 lbs overweight. Oh well, I rule!

Response:

I think I’m giving up on the Fourteeners–every time I get above 13,000, dizziness overcomes me. I run a 10,000′ peak every couple of weeks with no problems at all.

This harrowing tale of Dan’s is kinda scary — you’d think altitude would be something you could train for, and it sounds like he does train for it — but it seems he gets hit with the vertigo, dizziness and imbalance nonetheless! I have to admit, that would freak me out enough that I’d probably have asked a doctor to check me out. Have you done that, Dan?

Response:

Not me! All my memorable/crazy/inspirational runs require censorship. All the others would put you to sleep. — Doug Freese "Caveat Lector"

Response:

we set up an overnight base camp at 11,700 ft and started off for the summit. within a couple of hundred feet altitude gain, one of the guys dropped out. then, around 13000 ft, another dropped out since he started feeling as if he was going to pass out. we waited to make sure he was alright, sent him down to a lower altitude, and continued – three of us, including me. when we finally reached the summit, the other two got hit by mr. altitude. i was the only one who didn’t get it.

You guys were hiking, or were you running? I’m thinking that running must exaggerate the altitude effects greatly. Have been packing and hiking well over 12,000 feet a number of times without much effect, but haven’t tried "running" at that elevation as far as I can recall.

Response:

I once started out at about 8:00 am on a Saturday morning from downtown Culver City, California, then ran west along the Ballona Creek to the ocean and turned south through Marina del Rey, Playa del Rey, past LAX, El Segundo, and the subsequent beach cities along the meandering beach "bike" path. It was such a beautiful cool day, and without thinking that I had a light prevailing ocean wind at my butt as I headed south, I just enjoyed the scenery (girls in bikinis is a form of "runner’s high" I’ve never seen discussed much), the sound of the ocean, and the weather, and I kept on going on down to Manhattan Beach, Hermosa Beach, and eventually even Redondo Beach. What the hell, I was feeling GOOD as I ran. Somewhere still short of 10:00 am I stopped at a drinking fountain, took a look at my watch, and realized I was probably about 14 miles from home, and had nothing with me but my watch and a lone house key. This didn’t leave many options, and I realized I had stumbled into running a "marathon" (and then some). I was a little intimidated at that point, because I believe I had never run more than about 14 miles at once at that age. So, I bit the bullet and headed back north up the path at once. Well, for those of you familiar with the Pacific Coast, the coastal breeze typically makes it a fair amount easier to head south than north (if you ever doubt this, take an extended bike trip along the coast, where the effects of the wind are exaggerated), and I soon realized I was going to have a much slower trip back. My city-by-city pace of the outward leg became more like step-by-step soon enough, and when I reached my turn I had never been so glad to see the Ballona Creek trail turn back off the beach and head inland — something I normally regretted a bit. Yes, the last 4 or 5 miles of this run were difficult for me indeed, but at least once I turned off the beach I was no longer fighting the wind. I believe I had run probably about 28 miles or so (never really measured it?) without having headed out planning to do so, and without water other than what fountains I found. No food, that’s for sure. I got back sometime still close to noon, and my girlfriend’s comment was "Where have YOU been?" Geez, how should I have answered that? ("Out running" doesn’t quite cut it, but it’s probably what I said). My legs were VERY stiff afterwards, but this run told me I could run marathons, obviously, and I have kept up my running habit in the many years since, so it had no harmful effects.

Response:

Here’s the account of my last harrowing run up Mt. Whitney in the summer of ‘02. It’s about 11 miles to the top, starting at 8600′ elevation and topping out at about 14,500′. No, I have no plans to run that sucker ever again… Guys: Three of my crazy mountain runner friends and I decided to run up Whitney last Friday. Two wanted to take it up at a slower pace, so Steve and I gave them a 30 minute head start, figuring to catch them by trail crest (about 9 miles out at 13,800′) We started at 6:30, and after a half hour or so, got into a good rhythm, about 17:30/mile pace. We jogged the ups, ran the rare flat/down sections, and walked up the steps. We passed many day hikers who had started in the wee hours. After about an hour and 50 minutes, we got to trail camp at 12,000 feet, took a solar powered potty break, and started trudging up the switchbacks. This is where the fun begins, as many of you know. We walked the curves and jogged many of the straights of the 100-odd switchbacks. As I climbed to 13,000, I started to get dizzy. This is just what happened to me last year. Oh well, push on. It was in the 40’s, with gusts of 15 mph. I was wearing a waterproof shell over a light longsleeved knit top, and running shorts. By the time we got to trail crest, I was pretty cold. Steve and I both had frozen faces–our lips were so cold and numb that we couldn’t form "B" and "P" sounds. Bill, one of those who had started earlier, strongly hinted that it was pretty cold, and we looked pretty bad–how about cutting the thing short and jogging down from trail crest? But Noooo, we had to press on. Fighting dizziness and the cold (the wind chill must have been in the 20’s), we fought our way to the top in about 3:45. As soon as I stopped, I started shivering. I dashed into the hut, and began to shake violently–even my shoulders were quivering. Fortunately, one of my friends had an extra pair of sweat pants, and two of them sat pressed against me as my body temperature rose enough to stop my shivering. I was more than a bit scared–and mad at myself for not bringing warm clothing. I should have had a wool cap, another top layer at least, and sweatpants. I don’t think I’d be writing this without my friends. Finally, we started down. All three of us were so dizzy from the altitude that we couldn’t jog down, so we carefully picked our way off the peak. My friends thought more than once about the possibility that they could lose their (impared) balance and fall on the *wrong* side of the trail. I pushed those thoughts aside and concentrated on each foot placement. I haven’t heard much about dizziness/vertigo problems on the Whitney list. Is it a thing only suffered by middle-aged runners? Finally, we made it to trail crest, and the switchbacks. Unfortunately, we were still too dizzy to run, and hiked down, assuming that things would return to normal at about 12,500 (where the dizziness began). Unfortunately, that didn’t happen for me. Everytime I sprung off to start running, I got a huge jolt of nauseating vertigo, so we hiked, and hiked and hiked. Then a strange thing happened to me at about mirror lake–I started listing to the left, which really did a number to my already precarious balancing act. Must be some kind of inner ear thing. My faithful friends walked me down. I was helpless, and reduced to a crawl–thank God for friends! I had to *crawl* across the log stream crossing, and fell at another crossing despite being held by my buddies. A very strange experience, feeling strong, but being unable to balance. We eventually got down–walking all the way. That is a heck of a long way to hike. Epiphany: It is 2,000,000 times easier to jog those 11 miles down! P.S: After the ride down to the motel and a couple of aspirins, I was walking straight again, and the dizziness was gone. Bill, who turned back at trail crest (13,500), ran all the way down, felt great, and had a burger and a beer or two at the Portal Store while waiting for us. I think I’m giving up on the Fourteeners–every time I get above 13,000, dizziness overcomes me. I run a 10,000′ peak every couple of weeks with no problems at all. –Dan

Response:

Inspired by a trip to San Francisco, I came up with this topic.

so, SF inspired you to entitle this thread "war stories?"

Response:

so, SF inspired you to entitle this thread "war stories?"

No, I’m sure the title is intended to draw Roger Hunter out of "retirement" for another of his fascinating (if off-topic) Rhodesian military tales!