Run Run Away

Question:

To be honest, I’m a little shocked that there would even be a question of stopping or not. I though the same thing.  During an interview of Robin Williams(I think) they asked what he thought of "Western Civilization?" He said call me when we get there and ask again. Whoa. *Robin Williams* is getting credit for this classic, now? Ye Gods… It’s Mahatma Gandi’s, who when asked by a Western reported, "What do you think of Western Civilizations?" replied, "I think it would be a nice idea."

George, you are correct. It was Robin Williams using the quote in an interview and gave direct credit to Gandhi. — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

Response:

    In 1954, when mile world-record holder John Landy was in a major race and was on a record-breaking pace, another competitor tripped and fell.  John ran back and helped him up, losing all chance for a new record, which he never had another good opportunity to acheive. His PR remains 3:58, instead of 3:55 or less.  Think about this and what it says about his character and consider whether another person’s well-being is more important to you than not losing an advantage in a race.  Landy will always be remembered as a true sportsman, even though his record time is a bit slower.

This guesture is  one of the great moments in Australian sport.  It was the 1956 Australian Mile Championships and the runner who tripped was Ron Clarke – then a teenager, later a world record holder at a number of distances.  Later that year Clarke lit the torch at the Melbourne Olympic Games.  Landy had come out of retirement for the ‘56 Olympics and took bronze in the 1500m.  Landy is now governor of the Australian state of Victoria (governor is a largely ceremonial position usually filled by people held in very high regard by the community). Andrew Taylor

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To be honest, I’m a little shocked that there would even be a question of stopping or not. I though the same thing.  During an interview of Robin Williams(I think) they asked what he thought of "Western Civilization?" He said call me when we get there and ask again. Whoa. *Robin Williams* is getting credit for this classic, now? Ye Gods… It’s Mahatma Gandi’s, who when asked by a Western reported, "What do you think of Western Civilizations?" replied, "I think it would be a nice idea." George, you are correct. It was Robin Williams using the quote in an interview and gave direct credit to Gandhi.

Whew!! Glad to hear it– the universe had just tilted a bit too much there for my tastes. — Shalom, Peace, Salaam George Grattan

Response:

Andrew, you did the right thing. That guy needed help and you took the couple of minutes needed to lend a hand. As you say, if you hadn’t stopped, nobody else would have… and then what would have become of   him? And you’d probably be bothered by that memory for years after… "whatever happened to that guy – who I didn’t stop to help?" Cam

Response:

To be honest, I’m a little shocked that there would even be a question of stopping or not. I though the same thing.  During an interview of Robin Williams(I think) they asked what he thought of "Western Civilization?" He said call me when we get there and ask again.

Whoa. *Robin Williams* is getting credit for this classic, now? Ye Gods… It’s Mahatma Gandi’s, who when asked by a Western reported, "What do you think of Western Civilizations?" replied, "I think it would be a nice idea." — Shalom, Peace, Salaam George Grattan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

To be honest, I’m a little shocked that there would even be a question of stopping or not.

I though the same thing.  During an interview of Robin Williams(I think) they asked what he thought of "Western Civilization?" He said call me when we get there and ask again. — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

Response:

On my weekend race I lined up at start at the front w/the 5+ & 6+ minute milers. An guy (63-70 yrs. old) who did not have the appearance of a Master was next to me at the start…..upon the start as the bunched up pack short choppy stepped with elbows up looking for room/breaking out started….this oldtimer takes a hard face plant….he slammed down/scrubbed pretty hard.   This is within 2 seconds of the start.   Instantly I knew he likely got tripped up from behind, sure he had no business up front anyway…but something in me felt compelled to stop and see if I could come to his aid as I thought there’s a chance he’s having a heartattack.  A couple of others did too.   Keep in mind this is a race where there are some 3,000 people behind us and we’re at the front for a 60′ wide starting gate (picture the Running of the Bulls….).

[good deed snipped] From now on I think I’m only going to stop to aid another runner in a race if it clearly seems catastrophic life or death…(heart attack)…and in an area of a race where there are no officials or monitors…and even then I figure I might be best off running to the closest monitor (who always has a cell phone anyway).   Twisted ankles, slips and nasty falls,…face planters at the start…forget it….I’m not stopping…again.    Anyone else ever have to face a decision on whether or not to stop to aid a runner in a race?   What did you do? I can’t be the only one who’s weighing stopping to aid some versus F%$# ‘ing up my race/placement and time?   Andrew

I haven’t had to do this in a race but I hope I would stop as you did. I just really want to ak you: is your race placement really so important that you might not help someone again? It seems to me that you did the right thing. Even if you did not touch the guy, you said you were a blocker. Without you there the others might not have been able to pick him up. I hope you reconsider your change of heart and help if the occasion arises again. I’ll just close by saying good job on helping out. — Ed Prochak running: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/ family:  http://web.magicinterface.com/~collins — "Two roads diverged in a wood and I I took the one less travelled by and that has made all the difference." robert frost

Response:

Whadda’ ya’ know. It is! Oops. Well, at least I made a very important point, and a huge contribution to rec.running. Surf

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – between them, and the clearance sale items at The Gap. There should be no apostrophe between ‘them’ and ‘and’. Without the That’s a comma you’re lookin’ at Surf m’boy, the apostrophe kinda hangs around in mid air waiting to pounce on an unsuspecting "its" and transform it into an "it’s".

Response:

     In 1954, when mile world-record holder John Landy was in a major race and was on a record-breaking pace, another competitor tripped and fell.  John ran back and helped him up, losing all chance for a new record, which he never had another good opportunity to acheive. His PR remains 3:58, instead of 3:55 or less.  Think about this and what it says about his character and consider whether another person’s well-being is more important to you than not losing an advantage in a race.  Landy will always be remembered as a true sportsman, even though his record time is a bit slower.      Obviously, your reaction to help this fallen runner was a good one and you shouldn’t deny yourself the credit for a humanitarian act, by vowing not to do such a thing again. Steve McDonald

Response:

Without the punctuation people can step over the expiring body in a more hurried fashion.

I agree! If some dieing loser gets in my way at a sale I’ll trample the future stiff flat. Bill R.

Response:

between them, and the clearance sale items at The Gap. There should be no apostrophe between ‘them’ and ‘and’. Without the

That’s a comma you’re lookin’ at Surf m’boy, the apostrophe kinda hangs around in mid air waiting to pounce on an unsuspecting "its" and transform it into an "it’s".

Response:

Anyone else ever have to face a decision on whether or not to stop to aid a runner in a race?   What did you do? I can’t be the only one who’s weighing stopping to aid some versus F%$# ‘ing up my race/placement and time?  

Andrew, In the Ultra world there’s a series called the Grand Slam. To complete the series one must finish 4 specific 100 mile races over the course of the summer. These races all require entry in the winter before and between race fees and transportation cost maybe $600 apiece minimum. There’s a guy who is a very well known runner who was attempting the series and at Western States, the first race of the series, 80 miles into the race he stopped to help a runner who had fallen and was injured. He knew that by doing this he would likely miss a cutoff and not get an official finish but did it anyway. As it turned out, he finished the race but was 10 minutes over the cutoff and thus did not get an official finish and so was ineligible for the Grand Slam. When I asked him about it afterwards, he said he’d do the exact same thing again under the circumstances and had no regrets. He taught me what running is really all about and the respect I have for him is immeasurable. You did the right thing!

Response:

You’re mad at yourself for spending a whopping 18 seconds, helping another human being in distress?  Folks, this a new low, even for a jogger.  Andrew, I can see it now.  You’re at the mall, and suddenly you’re gripped with chest pains.  You grab your chest and collapse on the floor in a sweaty heap.  As you fight for your potentially last breath, people step over you, visibly annoyed that you’re expiring between them, and the clearance sale items at The Gap.

There should be no apostrophe between ‘them’ and ‘and’. Without the punctuation people can step over the expiring body in a more hurried fashion. Isn’t that preferable? No one should have to wait for a sale. Furthermore, The Gap and their loyal shareholders (losers) need all the help they can get. Surf

Response:

Bill, you the man!  

)~ Hope I never experience the joy of being elbowed by you during a race

I have a new device in my running shoes so I don’t have to elbow anyone anymore. They are retractable razors in the toes of my shoes, I use them to cut the achilles tendon of the people in my way. Bill R.

Response:

You’re mad at yourself for spending a whopping 18 seconds, helping another human being in distress?  Folks, this a new low, even for a jogger.  Andrew, I can see it now.  You’re at the mall, and suddenly you’re gripped with chest pains.  You grab your chest and collapse on the floor in a sweaty heap.  As you fight for your potentially last breath, people step over you, visibly annoyed that you’re expiring between them, and the clearance sale items at The Gap.  And the whole time you’re gasping, "What’s wrong with you people?  Someone help me!" And then finally, after what seems like hours, a caring soul bends down what?  You’ll deserve it.  There’s a word for people like

Response:

Bill, you the man!  Hope I never experience the joy of being elbowed by you during a race

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Exactly! To be honest, I’m a little shocked that there would even be a question of stopping or not. — David Nova Scotia, Canada. Me too! I say "fuck ‘em, I got my race to run". I cannot be bothered with these sissies. Bill R.

Response:

Exactly! To be honest, I’m a little shocked that there would even be a question of stopping or not. — David Nova Scotia, Canada.

Me too! I say "fuck ‘em, I got my race to run". I cannot be bothered with these sissies. Bill R.

Response:

(Snip) You did the right thing. There will be other 5Ks for you– there might not be other opportunities to help someone. At the very least, you and others who stopped helped make sure the situation didn’t get worse before truly effective  help could get there. — Shalom, Peace, Salaam George Grattan

Response:

You obviously did the right thing.  We run a local 10k here once a year and the winner can pocket several thousand for their efforts, a minimum of $3,000 and if you can manage to break a record there is several thou in bonus money put up by some local business supporting the event.  Anyway some of the Kenyans have come within seconds of collecting the big bucks.  Were something to come up where they had to choose between the possibility of filling their pockets or helping to save a life I bet some of them would do the same thing.

Response:

Exactly!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To be honest, I’m a little shocked that there would even be a question of stopping or not. — David Nova Scotia, Canada.

Response:

i simply have to agree.  i think if more people did what you did, the world would be a better place.  bottom line, you finished less than 20 seconds later, you ran a race, and you helped someone who will remember your kindness for the rest of his life.  good for you. race times are good, humanity is better. m when man tries to imagine paradise on earth, the immediate result is a very respectable hell.                      claudel – 1929                         – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think you’re to be commended. You had many reasons for not stopping and you mention a few. I think if this was the Olympic trials  it would be different, but the fact is you suddenly found yourself (these things are ALWAYS thrust upon us with zero warning. No time to weigh the pros and cons of an action)  in a position to help someone, in however a minor capacity and you did, without hesitation.  Although a race is THE obvious manifestation of an activity where one doesn’t want to waste time, I think the most common justification given for not helping someone (either thinking to yourself or saying aloud to others) is "Well, I am (was) in a hurry".  We lost our dog two years ago and you would not believe the help we got from complete strangers in our search.  You did good Andrew. Doug Burke On my weekend race I lined up at start at the front w/the 5+ & 6+ minute milers. An guy (63-70 yrs. old) who did not have the appearance of a Master was next to me at the start…..upon the start as the bunched up pack short choppy stepped with elbows up looking for room/breaking out started….this oldtimer takes a hard face plant….he slammed down/scrubbed pretty hard. This is within 2 seconds of the start.   Instantly I knew he likely got tripped up from behind, sure he had no business up front anyway…but something in me felt compelled to stop and see if I could come to his aid as I thought there’s a chance he’s having a heartattack.  A couple of others did too.   Keep in mind this is a race where there are some 3,000 people behind us and we’re at the front for a 60′ wide starting gate (picture the Running of the Bulls….). Once I saw the guy was not in an emergency state of immedaite death and only at risk of being trampled…(but other stoppers were helping him up)…I kind of "blocked" for a few seconds for them….then….I started the race.  This little good samaritan effort cost me 10 seconds at the start and probably another 7-8 seconds simply weaving around a couple a hundred slower runners that were now suddenly now packed up in front of me (and this was a quick 5K race). I’m actually mad at myself for stopping now and re-thinking my whole policy on when to stop an aid a distressed/hurt/injured runner in a race.  Hundreds of other assumingly good people paid no concern to this old guy….and Upon reflection of this incident it’s not like I’m a doctor and could have done anything…and had I been thinking smarter….I would have realized it was the starting line and all the medical professional were right there anyway.   I never would have stopped if this was a younger person to be honest…….I let the fact that he was an old timer and risk of heartattack concern me. From now on I think I’m only going to stop to aid another runner in a race if it clearly seems catastrophic life or death…(heart attack)…and in an area of a race where there are no officials or monitors…and even then I figure I might be best off running to the closest monitor (who always has a cell phone anyway).   Twisted ankles, slips and nasty falls,…face planters at the start…forget it….I’m not stopping…again.    Anyone else ever have to face a decision on whether or not to stop to aid a runner in a race?   What did you do? I can’t be the only one who’s weighing stopping to aid some versus F%$# ‘ing up my race/placement and time? Andrew

Response:

I think the answer is pretty simple. If you would want someone to stop for you, then you should help others. What if you had been tripped and was in danger of being trampled. Would you want others to help you. Now, since it was at the very start, I would think there would be race volunteers nearby to help out. But, in any case, There is the old "do unto others…." believe me, I can understand the investment you made to prep for this race and to then have it affected by this. Your are a more "elite" runner among this group then most so it would destroy your chances much more then most of us. Only you can tell if what you did was the right thing.

On my weekend race I lined up at start at the front w/the 5+ & 6+ minute

<Story Snipped

Response:

I think you’re to be commended. You had many reasons for not stopping and you mention a few. I think if this was the Olympic trials  it would be different, but the fact is you suddenly found yourself (these things are ALWAYS thrust upon us with zero warning. No time to weigh the pros and cons of an action)  in a position to help someone, in however a minor capacity and you did, without hesitation.  Although a race is THE obvious manifestation of an activity where one doesn’t want to waste time, I think the most common justification given for not helping someone (either thinking to yourself or saying aloud to others) is "Well, I am (was) in a hurry".  We lost our dog two years ago and you would not believe the help we got from complete strangers in our search.  You did good Andrew. Doug Burke – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On my weekend race I lined up at start at the front w/the 5+ & 6+ minute milers. An guy (63-70 yrs. old) who did not have the appearance of a Master was next to me at the start…..upon the start as the bunched up pack short choppy stepped with elbows up looking for room/breaking out started….this oldtimer takes a hard face plant….he slammed down/scrubbed pretty hard. This is within 2 seconds of the start.   Instantly I knew he likely got tripped up from behind, sure he had no business up front anyway…but something in me felt compelled to stop and see if I could come to his aid as I thought there’s a chance he’s having a heartattack.  A couple of others did too.   Keep in mind this is a race where there are some 3,000 people behind us and we’re at the front for a 60′ wide starting gate (picture the Running of the Bulls….). Once I saw the guy was not in an emergency state of immedaite death and only at risk of being trampled…(but other stoppers were helping him up)…I kind of "blocked" for a few seconds for them….then….I started the race.  This little good samaritan effort cost me 10 seconds at the start and probably another 7-8 seconds simply weaving around a couple a hundred slower runners that were now suddenly now packed up in front of me (and this was a quick 5K race). I’m actually mad at myself for stopping now and re-thinking my whole policy on when to stop an aid a distressed/hurt/injured runner in a race.  Hundreds of other assumingly good people paid no concern to this old guy….and Upon reflection of this incident it’s not like I’m a doctor and could have done anything…and had I been thinking smarter….I would have realized it was the starting line and all the medical professional were right there anyway.   I never would have stopped if this was a younger person to be honest…….I let the fact that he was an old timer and risk of heartattack concern me. From now on I think I’m only going to stop to aid another runner in a race if it clearly seems catastrophic life or death…(heart attack)…and in an area of a race where there are no officials or monitors…and even then I figure I might be best off running to the closest monitor (who always has a cell phone anyway).   Twisted ankles, slips and nasty falls,…face planters at the start…forget it….I’m not stopping…again.    Anyone else ever have to face a decision on whether or not to stop to aid a runner in a race?   What did you do? I can’t be the only one who’s weighing stopping to aid some versus F%$# ‘ing up my race/placement and time? Andrew

Response:

Very tricky one. I think you can feel proud of yourself that you thought of this guy above your own race. Question is when is a guy in real trouble and when he is just suffering from the effects of the race. With such a large race, I presume there were a fair few marshalls around? Cheers Tim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On my weekend race I lined up at start at the front w/the 5+ & 6+ minute milers. An guy (63-70 yrs. old) who did not have the appearance of a Master was next to me at the start…..upon the start as the bunched up pack short choppy stepped with elbows up looking for room/breaking out started….this oldtimer takes a hard face plant….he slammed down/scrubbed pretty hard. This is within 2 seconds of the start.   Instantly I knew he likely got tripped up from behind, sure he had no business up front anyway…but something in me felt compelled to stop and see if I could come to his aid as I thought there’s a chance he’s having a heartattack.  A couple of others did too.   Keep in mind this is a race where there are some 3,000 people behind us and we’re at the front for a 60′ wide starting gate (picture the Running of the Bulls….). Once I saw the guy was not in an emergency state of immedaite death and only at risk of being trampled…(but other stoppers were helping him up)…I kind of "blocked" for a few seconds for them….then….I started the race.  This little good samaritan effort cost me 10 seconds at the start and probably another 7-8 seconds simply weaving around a couple a hundred slower runners that were now suddenly now packed up in front of me (and this was a quick 5K race). I’m actually mad at myself for stopping now and re-thinking my whole policy on when to stop an aid a distressed/hurt/injured runner in a race.  Hundreds of other assumingly good people paid no concern to this old guy….and Upon reflection of this incident it’s not like I’m a doctor and could have done anything…and had I been thinking smarter….I would have realized it was the starting line and all the medical professional were right there anyway. I never would have stopped if this was a younger person to be honest…….I let the fact that he was an old timer and risk of heartattack concern me. From now on I think I’m only going to stop to aid another runner in a race if it clearly seems catastrophic life or death…(heart attack)…and in an area of a race where there are no officials or monitors…and even then I figure I might be best off running to the closest monitor (who always has a cell phone anyway).   Twisted ankles, slips and nasty falls,…face planters at the start…forget it….I’m not stopping…again.    Anyone else ever have to face a decision on whether or not to stop to aid a runner in a race?   What did you do? I can’t be the only one who’s weighing stopping to aid some versus F%$# ‘ing up my race/placement and time? Andrew

Response:

On my weekend race I lined up at start at the front w/the 5+ & 6+ minute milers. An guy (63-70 yrs. old) who did not have the appearance of a Master was next to me at the start…..upon the start as the bunched up pack short choppy stepped with elbows up looking for room/breaking out started….this oldtimer takes a hard face plant….he slammed down/scrubbed pretty hard.   This is within 2 seconds of the start.   Instantly I knew he likely got tripped up from behind, sure he had no business up front anyway…but something in me felt compelled to stop and see if I could come to his aid as I thought there’s a chance he’s having a heartattack.  A couple of others did too.   Keep in mind this is a race where there are some 3,000 people behind us and we’re at the front for a 60′ wide starting gate (picture the Running of the Bulls….). Once I saw the guy was not in an emergency state of immedaite death and only at risk of being trampled…(but other stoppers were helping him up)…I kind of "blocked" for a few seconds for them….then….I started the race.  This little good samaritan effort cost me 10 seconds at the start and probably another 7-8 seconds simply weaving around a couple a hundred slower runners that were now suddenly now packed up in front of me (and this was a quick 5K race).   I’m actually mad at myself for stopping now and re-thinking my whole policy on when to stop an aid a distressed/hurt/injured runner in a race.  Hundreds of other assumingly good people paid no concern to this old guy….and Upon reflection of this incident it’s not like I’m a doctor and could have done anything…and had I been thinking smarter….I would have realized it was the starting line and all the medical professional were right there anyway.   I never would have stopped if this was a younger person to be honest…….I let the fact that he was an old timer and risk of heartattack concern me. From now on I think I’m only going to stop to aid another runner in a race if it clearly seems catastrophic life or death…(heart attack)…and in an area of a race where there are no officials or monitors…and even then I figure I might be best off running to the closest monitor (who always has a cell phone anyway).   Twisted ankles, slips and nasty falls,…face planters at the start…forget it….I’m not stopping…again.    Anyone else ever have to face a decision on whether or not to stop to aid a runner in a race?   What did you do? I can’t be the only one who’s weighing stopping to aid some versus F%$# ‘ing up my race/placement and time?   Andrew

Response: