Run Run Away

Question:

Many tnx to everybody who contributed to this. Plenty of interesting thoughts there. I’ve put off my inaugural run till next Sat, it was pouring with rain all w/e. I’m happy to run in the rain, but cycle? No way!!! Incidentally, I missed out a bit of background in that I have been using a bicycle to get around for ~ 6 years. Ever since I lived in Holland. I’ve been lucky enough to live within 20 mins or so of my workplace. Nothing athletic, but at least it won’t be the first time I’ve ridden a bike for 20 yrs. The first time a tried riding a bike since getting motorised as a teenager was AGONY. I could barely sit down after just a 20 minute ride Mike’s comments certainly put things into perspective. I did think to go charging off and do a ‘tempo’ session straight away. On reflection I think I should give it a few weeks to build up, with a 5 mins tempo, then 8, 10, 12, etc. Till I get up to something along the lines of a 20-30 min at ‘tempo’ ( – elevated breathing, no HRM for Xmas .   Miles — Cut the 0_fin~SPAM_  to email back to me

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got a (cheapo) racing style bike which should do the job, and   is fitted with a bike computer (for measuring my running courses). What sort of speed/distance should I be aiming at on the bike ?? 20 MPH is good and just happens to work out at 3 minute miles,   actually   getting to DO  10 miles in a half hour is a good initial goal. Somewhere I read a rule of thumb that the aerobic equivalent of   running at   x MPH for n miles is cycling at 2x MPH for 4n miles, though I think it   only applies to distances over 10K. 20 MPH is excellent over any reasonable distance. I’d say that most people would be working fairly hard to do that alone. (Note that riding in a group is very different, since drafting makes a tremendous difference in cycling.)

Riding close enough to another rider in order to get ANY drafting effect   can be incredibly dangerous, especially for someone not experienced in   EXACTLY this practice.  It takes a lot of skill in the leading riders to   keep their pace even and a lot of skill in the following riders to   anticipate the slight drops in speed resulting form gear changes, traffic,   even bumps in the road, etc.  To be effective you’re playing on a < 6 inch   gap between the rear tire of the lead bike and the front tire of the   following bike, at 20 + MPH the margin for error is slim.  If you want the   training benefit of riding a bike then GET the training benefit of   "pushing your own air" – ALL OF IT !  Don’t be a  "wheel sucker"  (-: R {time trialer; not a pack animal} – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – -Ekr — [Eric Rescorla                             Terisa Systems, Inc.]            "Put it in the top slot."

Response:

you’re not used to cycling. I’d like to include cycling as a training method but before I can do that, I need to get used to cycling.  My body may be used to running at 160bpm but if I cycled for a long period of time at 160bpm, I would suffer for it afterwards. I’ve just started doing short bike rides at a very slow pace, probably not fast enough to be considered excercise but at least it’s getting my legs used to the motion of cycling.  It may be some time before I use cycling as a once-weekly session of half an hour that allows me to recover yet still has some cardio-respiratory benefit.

I don’t understand this. The main muscle in running are the hamstrings and the quad is used for cycling. Both raise your heart rate and improve conditioning. You don’t mention a problem with injuries related to exercise on a bike. I cannot figure out why you could not do multiple long &/or hard rides a week. It is like doing speed workouts if you have not been doing them. If you do one and race the next day, you will likely not do so well. You just need get some rest after the new exercise and you will be ok. Good Luck

Response:

From reading the latest posts in this thread, I would agree that some caution is needed if you haven’t done ANY cycling before. Miles suggests he uses his bike to measure his running courses so I would infer he is not a complete novice. Before I started cycling seriously I would often cycle very ‘fast’ to Uni. if I thought I was going to be late for a lecture (not everyday, honest!). I was dressed in shirt, jumper, jeans, trainers, toe clips, had a rucksack on my back and rode a bike that I would now consider not even good enough for my hack bike. I now think this unrecorded base training made be generally fitter. I would often do 10 miles a day just back and forth to Uni., the shops and the pub! Also bear in mind that cycling at a certain pulse is much harder (5 to 10 beat differential is commonly quoted) than running at that same pulse so if you run at 160 might try cycling at 150 say. Gears largely depend on cadence – if you go at 90rpm you should not be in too a high gear by default. Sounds obvious but if you try to mash a 52×13 you are highly unlikely to maintain 90 rpm on the flat unless you are a very good cyclist. You should also see speeds much in excess of 25mph for this level of effort. My duathlon coach Ken Maclaren has written an article Cycling for Runners. It is about to appear in the latest edition of the British Milers Club bi-annual magazine BMC News which I am the editor of. If anyone would like a preview copy please send me an E-mail and I’ll mail it back as an attachment (Word 7). Meanwhile those interested in the 800-5K track events might like to visit the BMC site http://www.british-athletics.co.uk/bmc/ The whole of the last BMC News is available for download for free and the new edition should be available within the next fortnight. — Tim Grose Please remove xxx if replying – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok, here’s another one of those perpetual problems recently initiated by Paul:   How to get more than 3 ‘quality’ sessions into a 7 day slot, while alternating hard/easy days. E.g. Here’s my weekly schedule:   S – long *   M – rest   T – track *   W – easy   T – track *   F – easy/rest   S – easy I’ve been thinking about this for some time. What my regime really lacks is a regular ‘tempo’ session, although my winter track sessions (e.g. 3*2000m) start to approximate this. So I’m going to introduce a 30min ‘tempo’ cycle ride on Saturday mornings. Should give me the cardiopulmonary workout I want (sucking in diesel fumes , while still leaving my legs fresh enough for Sunday’s long run. Is this likely to work ?? And how to I go about riding a bike ‘athletically’ ?? I’ve never done that. I’ve got a (cheapo) racing style bike which should do the job, and is fitted with a bike computer (for measuring my running courses). What sort of speed/distance should I be aiming at on the bike ?? What is the recommended cadence ?? Is it necessary to warm up as I would before a tempo type run ?? Any other tips ??   Miles — Cut the 0_fin~SPAM_  to email back to me

Response:

You need to be careful starting to introduce cycling into your training, if you’re not used to cycling. I’d like to include cycling as a training method but before I can do that, I need to get used to cycling.  My body may be used to running at 160bpm but if I cycled for a long period of time at 160bpm, I would suffer for it afterwards. I’ve just started doing short bike rides at a very slow pace, probably not fast enough to be considered excercise but at least it’s getting my legs used to the motion of cycling.  It may be some time before I use cycling as a once-weekly session of half an hour that allows me to recover yet still has some cardio-respiratory benefit.             l -’                                    _ /

Response:

OK, I’m gonna weigh in here with a contrary opinion. I think it is VERY risky for Miles to be trying to do TEMPO workouts on a bike with no background in biking and <probably medoicre) equipment at best. Would anyone here recommend that new runner begin tempo workouts their first week? In tennis shoes? C’mon. Miles, you think you’ve got minor aches and pains from running? Try cranking out 20 mph on that old 10 speed next week. You gotta work up to that level. If you want to add bike workouts, begin by doing slower rides, but in a low gear – i.e spinning at a high rate. You feel a bit foolish, pedaling fast, but going slow, but even pros often start out their early season just spinning in low gears. If you try to push too big of  a gear, you will injure yourself. This is experience talking. I did it even when I was in excellent biking shape. Don’t try tempo workouts on a bike until you’ve done the base work on the bike. Same as running. Mike "TriBop" Tennent Remove "nospam." for email reply IMC ‘98 IronVirgins Website http://www.gate.net/~wbrunner/imc_iv.htm WebRunner Running Page and my Model Railroad page http://www.gate.net/~wbrunner/

Response:

Don’t try tempo workouts on a bike until you’ve done the base work on the bike. Same as running.

I’ve got to agree with this. For most people, unless they’re in really good shape, 20 mph is going to be much faster than you can comfortably do your base training at. I’m not as worried about injury as Mike is, (though I agree it’s a possibility) but I would be worried about overtraining. -Ekr — [Eric Rescorla                             Terisa Systems, Inc.]                 "Put it in the top slot."

Response:

Bike work does give you a good workout and gives you a break from the pounding of running.Good idea.Question 1(speed/distance):Depends on the terrian(hilly,flat),a good speed average on the bike is 20mph.Think of twenty mph as equal to 7:00 min/mi. run average.However,give yourself some time to get you legs,especially your knees,before you starting pushing a bigger gear for the higher speed.Question 2,cadence  90rpmsI push a much lower gear but thats triathlon specific.The book says use a cadence as close to your running as you can.Question 3,warm up:Yes,especially in cold weather.Protect you knees.Warm up @15 min,gradually get up to you  aerobic threshold.Then hold AT for 30 for Sun. Last advice,many European coaches say that your bike AT is @10 beats lower than your run AT??not everyone agrees with that but it seems to be true for me.Good Luck and maybe over time we’ll have a new triathlete!!       Randy

Response:

[snip useful info] If you are going to do some fast cycling it is much easier with proper cycle gear, especially things like clipless pedals and cycling shoes. Get your position checked out by an experienced cyclist. I hadn’t though of that at all. At least My bike does have some old fashioned strap toe clips, and I was planning to wear an old pair of running shoes. Sounds like this cycling idea could get expensive

        Nah, don’t worry about clipless unless you really get into it.  Another option is to buy the same kind of platforms that some triathletes use so they can wear running shoes on their bikes (these provided added stiffness, but not anything close to clipless).

Response:

[snip useful info] If you are going to do some fast cycling it is much easier with proper cycle gear, especially things like clipless pedals and cycling shoes. Get your position checked out by an experienced cyclist. I hadn’t though of that at all. At least My bike does have some old fashioned strap toe clips, and I was planning to wear an old pair of running shoes. Sounds like this cycling idea could get expensive

There’s no problem doing this and until you decide whether you like cycling it isn’t really worth the immediate expense. However if you get into it and I hope you do then it’s a sound investment. One caution about using running shoes to cycle – I would try and avoid using your regular trainers – better to use your racing flats. This is because the flats have much thinner soles. I have size US13 feet and used XL clips. However if I use my regular trainers for cycling I would have needed to put my saddle up quite a bit and get longer toe clips. Also it’s not very efficient cycling in shoes with so much padding. Cycling shoes have rigid soles so using flats is better bet. Somebody else suggested using the platform pedals as used by duathletes and triathletes. That is a good idea – again use racing flats – but note my pair cost me