OT: Does this make sense?

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The one certain thing about communities is that they are almost guaranteed to change. I have only lived in my present community about 3 years and I can already see great changes. Schools can be changed too but it takes a great effort on the part of the parents to force the situation. — Ron P The trouble with sitting on the fence is getting pickets up the butt Ron, Thanks so much for your reply. I agree with you about change in communities, but the weird thing is that ours hasn’t changed one bit since we moved here almost five years ago. It’s kind of freaky. The HOA rules with an iron fist. I know there are options to fight the school boundaries and such, but I have no energy for that. I’d rather move, and that says a lot . Thanks again, Ron. Love, Dawn

Home Owners Associations can be a pain in the ass and are usually run by a bunch of real pratts. I would tend to find out all the rules and push every last one of them to the limit just to drive them nuts. A condominium that I lived in had some strange rules about what could be on the balconies even though they had solid no-see-through railings that were 4 feet high. One guy and his girlfriend waited until a hot day then they proceeded to sunbath in the nude on their balcony and then did what comes naturally and there wasn’t a thing the association of owners could do about it. Talk about sticking it in their faces! — Ron P The trouble with sitting on the fence is getting pickets up the butt — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The water bottle thing.. oh.. it’s probably a good thing that is not one of my kids. I tended to be a bit of a mother hen about things like that.. I would go in on the school, and they would remember me for a long time before I was finished saying what I wanted to say. LOL .. I can uh.. let it rip if I feel like one of my kids is being hurt in some way. I’m still that way and they are grown men. we all feel that way, Sally … BUT there are parents appearing in schools to demand that there kids be able to use their cell phones at ALL TIMES "in case there is an emergency" … that’s just for openers … If parents want better schools with better outcomes they absolutely MUST let the administrators and teachers run them, not the kids and parents. Susan Do you have kids, Susan? I don’t have school-age kids, Giggs .. but I have a memory (of better times with schools) and I still pay a lot of attention to what’s going on now in the world of education … and I have done some teaching at the college level; I understand people’s frustration with stupid rules; there are plenty of them but I have pretty consistently taken the position that if a rule is not egregiously bad then I shut up and the kids have to follow it. However, I have never defended a stupid rule; kids know better and you lose credibility if you do. The stupid rules REALLY begin in earnest when you LEAVE school so I always thought it’s good for the kids to come to terms with that reality of life. In my work, dealing with stupid rules is an everyday thing.

My first job had some really stupid rules. Some examples: Women: Had to wear dresses and skirts mid-knee in length…no longer or shorter No streaky hairdos Men: Sideburns had to be mid ear in length No beards or moustaches No running shoes (we were a delivery service within a company) Shirt with collars and mandatory ties (ties were dangerous around parcel wrapping machinery) The first thing I did was to grow Elvis Presley type side burns. I was ordered to shave it off….of course I ignored that. The second thing I did was to let my hair grow a bit longer than usual. I was told to get a hair cut. A week later I was told again to get a haircut. I told them that I hadn’t been told to get a haircut in over 10 years and I wasn’t about to take that kind of order from the likes of them. About a month later I got a haircut to trim back to the length that was first objected to. The first day of summer that was hot, I wore a pair of dress shorts (knee length) and promptly got into trouble for that and was told to not wear them anymore. I said thanks and would immediately take them off and spend the rest of the day in my tightly whiteys. That just about blew their minds. I lasted nearly 30 years with that outfit….I guess that I was the first of the "rebel new generation" to hit the place who wouldn’t be run over by stupid rules. — Ron P The trouble with sitting on the fence is getting pickets up the butt — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <gently snipped ::Any thoughts? Maybe someone will come up with something I haven’t thought ::of. I am having a ton of anxiety over this. It’s occupying my every waking ::moment as thoughts roll around in my head, over and over. I’m the worst ::decision maker in the world! Dear Dawn, Of course only you and your husband can make this decision. Once you decide what to do, you`ll anxiety will dissipate. If this were me, I think I would move. Your daughter is young enough where it shouldn`t be terribly stressful. In my opinion, moving during the junior high/high school years is a bit more traumatic for teenagers. The fact that ten kids are not returning to the charter school indicates something is not quite right. It`s crazy to not allow children to bring water bottles to school in the desert. Did they ever give a reason why? I had my two older kids in preschool together when they were toddlers. At first I liked the school…. then I started getting the feeling they were not allowing the kids to be kids. I got taken to task because I let Joshua and Kristen go to school with the backpacks my Mom had bought them. The director of the preschool actually asked me ‘what were you thinking allowing your kids to bring backpacks’. I was flabbergasted! To me backpacks and school is like a baseball games and hotdogs. You can`t have one without the other. This director is making me feel like my kids were freaks for having backpacks. LOL! Another day I was approached by the director because my two had misbehaved this one day. I had a million thoughts of what they could have done, all of them horrible things These are the same two that used to feed their fish milk and raisins. Anything was possible To my horror, she told me they committed the heinous act of taking off their shoes during class <gasp. The final straw was when the director approached me another time and told me Joshua was saying very bad words in school. She couldn`t even say the words to me. She had written them on a piece of paper, folded it and placed it in my hand. I drove down the street for a bit, pulled over because I had to know what curse words he had uttered in school. I opened the paper and there was written, ‘pee-pee and poo-poo’. I am not kidding. I let them finish out that year but would not let them return in the Fall. A few years later when they got older, they told me they hated that school. Have you asked Katie if she likes her current school? Ask her, you may be surprised. Good luck Dawn! Let us know what you decide. Jackie ~*~Be kind, remember everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle~*~ ~~ T.H. Thompson

Jackie, That’s why we’re in trouble–neither my husband nor I can make decisions to save our lives . Actually, I kind of think we’ve made the decision and are just looking for validation or reassurance or something. Ok, I’m looking for it–he doesn’t care…LOL! That preschool sounds insane. I would have pulled my child out too. Katie does like her current school, but that may change as the crazy rules get more prevalent. I think the new principal, though he seemed very reasonable and nice when talked to him on the phone for 30 mins., is going to be a much more hands on, crack down kind of a guy. That will be very different from the last principal and should be interesting to see. I fear some of the teachers may leave after this year if things don’t go well. I guess it won’t matter for us, though, since we’ll have options–hooray! We are listing our house starting next Monday. In fact, I have to go paint a bathroom now, so I’d better finish up here and get started. Thanks, Jackie! Love, Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Dawn, Definitely make your daughter’s education a top priority. If that means moving then do what you need to do. Sooner or later I would love to downsize also. My son will be moving back from college TEMPORARILY in 2 weeks so we need to be able to facilitate his needs for a while also. I looked at some of the houses on the site. They awe me. Very nice and yet so different from the homes in my area – more like our medical facilities or small office buildings. I didn’t notice any grass. What’s the story on that or is it about the climate? smiles, Elise I am here to tell you.. I saw no grass either. I Google Earthed her .. a lot of weeks ago. Ain’t no grass there, LOL. Well..look at it like this. No grass, no lawn to maintain, I suppose. To me, I’d be okay with that, but that is laziness, or depression or just knowing I didn’t want to get out and mow in that kind of heat or something. I think I would make the move.. Just knowing what bad schools can be like nowadays. I really wonder. If I had little kids now.. I may even decide to just home school them. I don’t know. I just might, in today’s world. I do know, my sons behaved better before they began school than after they started – they picked up some rather bad habits from the other kids, kind of shocked me, really. They had issues- we never had issues about until they’d learned some things from some other children. I don’t mean it lightly when I say "move." I just did it. I think it’s going to take an act of God, or maybe dynamite to get me to move again anytime soon. It’s difficult, and ..not an easy thing to just pick up and move. But your kids are a good enough reason to do that. sounds like a mass exodus from that school. That tells you a lot. The water bottle thing.. oh.. it’s probably a good thing that is not one of my kids. I tended to be a bit of a mother hen about things like that.. I would go in on the school, and they would remember me for a long time before I was finished saying what I wanted to say. LOL .. I can uh.. let it rip if I feel like one of my kids is being hurt in some way. I’m still that way and they are grown men. Sally

There’s grass, just not a lot of it. The neighborhood we want to move to has two or three grassy parks and a lot of the homes have some grass in the backyard. Grass needs a lot of water and we are into water conservation here, I guess . We are making the move. I am the same way with my baby–I protect her at all costs. I won’t go in and rant at them b/c she’d like to stay there at least for this year. I hope it will be okay with the water situation. Her teacher is WONDERFUL–I just love her! We’ll probably pull her out for fifth grade or maybe wait until middle school (6-8) here. Thanks, Sally. Love, Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

<gently snipped ::We are listing our house starting next Monday. In fact, I have to go paint a ::bathroom now, so I’d better finish up here and get started. Good luck (((((Dawn)))) Wishing you a quick sale! Jackie ~*~Be kind, remember everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle~*~ ~~ T.H. Thompson — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I don’t have school-age kids, Giggs .. but I have a memory (of better times with schools) and I still pay a lot of attention to what’s going on now in the world of education … and I have done some teaching at the college level; I understand people’s frustration with stupid rules; there are plenty of them but I have pretty consistently taken the position that if a rule is not egregiously bad then I shut up and the kids have to follow it. However, I have never defended a stupid rule; kids know better and you lose credibility if you do. The stupid rules REALLY begin in earnest when you LEAVE school so I always thought it’s good for the kids to come to terms with that reality of life. In my work, dealing with stupid rules is an everyday thing. People should understand the backdrop behind stupid school rules. Bad things happen (like Columbine) and there’s a public outcry for schools and public officials to "do something." People in administration call lawyers (among others) for guidance and I’m afraid my colleagues have a tendency to consistently seek, and find, the most conservative and cautious course of action imaginable. That’s how you get things like no-backpack rules. Worse yet, they tend to propogate rapidly across the country and become prevailing orthodoxy in one district after another. It doesn’t take long before there a lot of parents in "good homes" with "good kids" absolutely going nuts, pulling their hair out and and wondering what in God’s name this rule is doing in their kids’ school. It’s true … THEIR kids don’t put weapons in all about ?? This is why I think local control is what works best. When it comes to parenting, I think John Rosemond is one of the people making a lot of sense: http://rosemond.com/index.php I have to admit that it surprises me that I like a site named "Traditional Parenting" (I don’t think of myself as "traditional") but I think there’s a lot of value there .. a lot of good thinking about what effective, loving parenting is about. SJ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I`d bet a bottle of Dansani water that the reason they don`t allow kids to bring water bottles is that it would mean more trips to the bathroom.

I asked some teachers about this; at least two schools in the area have initiated a no-water-bottle policy because several students were found to be putting vodka in the bottle. And then there’s this: "A newsroom conversation recently centered around all the illegal things we had all done when we were teens. What a rotten bunch we were. There were drag racers, partiers, vandals, gypsies, tramps and thieves. We were in the memory lane huddle because of all the zero-tolerance debate going on right now. All the debate led to the question: Is it really all that shocking when teens try to pull the wool over the eyes of adults? Last year the big scandal was an athletic trip where some little darlings toted vodka-laced fruit. Then some put it in their water bottles. Those wacky kids. That fruit trick is as old as the hills. The water bottle thing was creative. But I’m old, so maybe that’s not new either." http://www.oaoa.com/columns/laura022005a.htm and this: "Our school does allow students to carry a clear/resealable 8 ounce bottle of water with them during the day. I’ve learned to smell the sweet aroma of vodka tainted water clear across the room. " http://teachers.net/mentors/high_school/topic7330/8.03.06.18.52.17.html and this: "You have the small boy who becomes a doll for the girls, they’re playing with his hair. Other kids are reading magazines, drawing on their desks. Kids are spitting sunflower seeds on the floor. Other kids are drinking vodka from what you thought was a water bottle. And the noise level makes it very difficult for anything to progress." http://www.hbo.com/thewire/interviews/ed_burns.shtml Susan — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Dawn! (I know I haven’t emailed you lately. Tons going on.) It sounds to me, just from reading what you wrote, that you seem to have made up your mind already but are scared to make a huge move in case it is a mistake. I am about to do something similar, myself, and I am terrified. You have to do what is best for you and your family and what makes everyone happy. The other neighborhood looks great but it is a shame you feel you must move in order for your child to get a proper education. You love your house, but it is too big (2400 square feet is quite large). Katie has no neighborhood children to play with because everyone lives far apart. I went through that with both kids because I live in the country no one’s homes are close and none of my kids’ friends ever lived in our area so we were constantly taking them to other homes in order for them to play. You and your family should just sit down with a piece of paper and write down the pros and cons of living where you are or moving. Not an easy decision, but I very much admire what a wonderful mother you are to care about this matter. So many do not care. Luckily, my kids had/have good schools (son is still in high school). Please try not to stress over it. You will make the right decision as a family, I am sure. Love ya, Vicki

Hello Vicki, You’re very correct–we have kind of made up our minds (such as they are…LOL), but need reassurance and feedback/input from others to keep us on track. We’re so indecisive! What a team we make. I did the pros and cons thing and came up with 3 cons and 14 pros. Moving it is! I’m not sure I’m such a wonderful mother (lately I’ve been soooo irritable with Katie), but I do care deeply about her education and health and everything that affects her. Love ya right back! Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Dawn, "I think we’re all tired of cleaning ." Exactly!!! And don’t forget painting, decorating, upkeep, etc…<g smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Dawn, Definitely make your daughter’s education a top priority. If that means moving then do what you need to do. Sooner or later I would love to downsize also. My son will be moving back from college TEMPORARILY in 2 weeks so we need to be able to facilitate his needs for a while also. I looked at some of the houses on the site. They awe me. Very nice and yet so different from the homes in my area – more like our medical facilities or small office buildings. I didn’t notice any grass. What’s the story on that or is it about the climate? smiles, Elise Hi Elise, Thanks so much. I agree that my daughter’s education (and everything else) is a top priority. It’s funny, everyone I talk to says they want to downsize their home. I think we’re all tired of cleaning . The homes out here are very different. One of the models in there, the one we’re most interested in, is a bungalow style like a Craftsman. It has the front porch and you enter into a large living room with the kitchen open to it and a dining room off to the side. The bedrooms are all off the living room except the master, which is in the back. The one we are considering putting an offer in on (a contigency offer–we need to sell our home) also has an AZ room (enclosed, insulated sunroom) next the master, behind the kitchen. We don’t have much grass in Tucson (though, bizarrely, the home we like has grass in the backyard) because people are very water-conservation minded here. Phoenix, which is just as dry (maybe drier), has much more grass. It’s kind of expensive to keep grass alive here. Love, Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::WHY aren’t they cleaning the water fountains ?? Does EVERY kid have to ::bring a stash of Evian or Perrier to school to avoid E-Coli infection or ::avian flu ? That’s nuts. <snipped With all due respect Susan, Dawn vented about an issue that was causing her a lot of anxiety. When it comes to our children, most parents want to do what is best for them. I believe the water bottle issue was just ‘one issue’ amongst others that had Dawn concerned. It`s just common sense to allow kids to bring water bottles to school in the desert, especially when it is the norm everywhere else in the state of Arizona. Young and old people are the most susceptible to heat. I`d bet a bottle of Dansani water that the reason they don`t allow kids to bring water bottles is that it would mean more trips to the bathroom. First and foremost, this IS a support group, not court, not a debate club. Jackie ~*~Be kind, remember everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle~*~ ~~ T.H. Thompson — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have a major dilemma and I thought I’d throw it out to you all and see what you think. Here it is: 1. We live in a bad school district. There are some good schools, elementary and high schools (about two each), but no good junior high schools. By good, I mean with good test scores and limited crime. Our school district also won’t let us open enroll in any neighboring districts (there are two very good ones near us). 2. Katie currently attends a charter school system (4th grade) that contains an elementary, junior high and high school. These are excellent schools with good teachers, but the owners are difficult people and instate rules like no water bottles (we live in a hot, dry desert–everyone carries water bottles and all schools require them), no lunch boxes (paper bags) and no backpacks (they provide a tote bag). These are new rules this year, with a new principal. They fired the old one and her aide, both of whom all the kids adored, without notice after the end of last year. See, they wait until they know people can’t open enroll anywhere else because it’s too late and then they drop these rules and other stuff on us. I only wonder what they’ll do next. Last year they spent the first two weeks of school screaming at parents, children, and the principal on a daily basis. See, they tried to instate the aforementioned policies last year but waited too late so they backed off. We thought they were gone (the rules). No such luck. This time they sent out a letter over the summer. I see at least 10 kids from Katie’s grade alone are not coming back (there’s about 40 kids in her grade). So here is our dilemma: What can we do if Katie’s charter schools head even farther south? Notwithstanding the control-freak owners, said owners could sell the school, or run out of money, or just about anything could affect charter schools that probably wouldn’t be an issue in a regular school district. If she can’t go there anymore, we don’t have any options in our current home. There are no other good charter schools (I’ve looked at them all). Private school is too expensive and the good ones are religion-affiliated, which we don’t want. We refuse to use someone else’s address to attend another district–I’m not a good rule breaker and I’d live in fear of getting caught, which sometimes happens to others who try it. My idea is to move about a mile south of where we are to get into the better school district. I can see the houses in that district across the wash to the south–we’re that close. When we bought our home we didn’t figure on wanting to stay in it so long. Our neighborhood junior high and high school are the pits, even though we live in a nice neighborhood. I guess we just didn’t plan ahead enough. Does this sound reasonable, or am I going off half-cocked? We love our house, the neighborhood is safe and quiet, but there aren’t any kids nearby for Katie to play with and the houses are really far apart (1/3-2 acre lots) so even trick or treating is a no-go. She also can’t play outside by herself because it’s got a ton of open space and the wild critters are everywhere. We also don’t have any parks or amenities for the $40 a month we pay in HOA fees (goes to the roads–it’s a gated neighborhood and the HOA owns them). Also, our house is too big for the three of us (2400 sq.ft.) and I’d like a smaller home for ease of cleaning and lack of wasted space. The neighborhood we want to move to is one of those experimental neighborhoods where the houses are all close together with the garages in back and they’re all "green" construction. They’re going for more of a small-town, old fashioned feel with front porces, a lot of rear garages, tree-lined streets, etc. There are neighborhood shops and parks and a rec center and all kinds of things we don’t have now. It’s so close that we would be near all the stores and things we have access to now. Here’s a link to the neighborhood web site: www.civanoneighbors.com If you are curious and want to see the homes, there’s a link on that site to current homes for sale and www.longrealty.com has an mls number search. Here are some of the mls numbers of the ones we like: 2623942 2619421 2620632 2609916 2621850 2612086 2616629 2608063 2627552 2618944 2623526 Any thoughts? Maybe someone will come up with something I haven’t thought of. I am having a ton of anxiety over this. It’s occupying my every waking moment as thoughts roll around in my head, over and over. I’m the worst decision maker in the world! Thanks so much if you read all this. Love, Dawn

Hello Dawn! (I know I haven’t emailed you lately. Tons going on.) It sounds to me, just from reading what you wrote, that you seem to have made up your mind already but are scared to make a huge move in case it is a mistake. I am about to do something similar, myself, and I am terrified. You have to do what is best for you and your family and what makes everyone happy. The other neighborhood looks great but it is a shame you feel you must move in order for your child to get a proper education. You love your house, but it is too big (2400 square feet is quite large). Katie has no neighborhood children to play with because everyone lives far apart. I went through that with both kids because I live in the country no one’s homes are close and none of my kids’ friends ever lived in our area so we were constantly taking them to other homes in order for them to play. You and your family should just sit down with a piece of paper and write down the pros and cons of living where you are or moving. Not an easy decision, but I very much admire what a wonderful mother you are to care about this matter. So many do not care. Luckily, my kids had/have good schools (son is still in high school). Please try not to stress over it. You will make the right decision as a family, I am sure. Love ya, Vicki — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Dawn, Definitely make your daughter’s education a top priority. If that means moving then do what you need to do. Sooner or later I would love to downsize also. My son will be moving back from college TEMPORARILY in 2 weeks so we need to be able to facilitate his needs for a while also. I looked at some of the houses on the site. They awe me. Very nice and yet so different from the homes in my area – more like our medical facilities or small office buildings. I didn’t notice any grass. What’s the story on that or is it about the climate? smiles, Elise

Hi Elise, Thanks so much. I agree that my daughter’s education (and everything else) is a top priority. It’s funny, everyone I talk to says they want to downsize their home. I think we’re all tired of cleaning . The homes out here are very different. One of the models in there, the one we’re most interested in, is a bungalow style like a Craftsman. It has the front porch and you enter into a large living room with the kitchen open to it and a dining room off to the side. The bedrooms are all off the living room except the master, which is in the back. The one we are considering putting an offer in on (a contigency offer–we need to sell our home) also has an AZ room (enclosed, insulated sunroom) next the master, behind the kitchen. We don’t have much grass in Tucson (though, bizarrely, the home we like has grass in the backyard) because people are very water-conservation minded here. Phoenix, which is just as dry (maybe drier), has much more grass. It’s kind of expensive to keep grass alive here. Love, Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

The one certain thing about communities is that they are almost guaranteed to change. I have only lived in my present community about 3 years and I can already see great changes. Schools can be changed too but it takes a great effort on the part of the parents to force the situation. — Ron P The trouble with sitting on the fence is getting pickets up the butt

Ron, Thanks so much for your reply. I agree with you about change in communities, but the weird thing is that ours hasn’t changed one bit since we moved here almost five years ago. It’s kind of freaky. The HOA rules with an iron fist. I know there are options to fight the school boundaries and such, but I have no energy for that. I’d rather move, and that says a lot . Thanks again, Ron. Love, Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – With all due respect Susan, Dawn vented about an issue that was causing her a lot of anxiety. When it comes to our children, most parents want to do what is best for them. I believe the water bottle issue was just ‘one issue’ amongst others that had Dawn concerned. It`s just common sense to allow kids to bring water bottles to school in the desert, especially when it is the norm everywhere else in the state of Arizona. Young and old people are the most susceptible to heat. I`d bet a bottle of Dansani water that the reason they don`t allow kids to bring water bottles is that it would mean more trips to the bathroom. First and foremost, this IS a support group, not court, not a debate club.

Jackie, A lot of things have become "common sense" over the past 25 years in schools at the behest of parents and children; perhaps you’ve noticed the results ? There are now police officers all over campuses, along with ubiquitous video monitoring devices … lovely, isn’t it ? Is this a result of teacher or administrative misconduct ? I know very well that Dawn was "venting" about more than water bottles but you can only deal with what’s on the table for discussion, shown well by your continued discussion of water bottles here. She has every reason to feel anxious about what’s going on in the schools. I have considered the issues carefully for a long time now and offered my perspective on it in good faith. We can, and apparently do, disagree. And, importantly, I think Dawn is more than capable of speaking for herself on what I wrote .. if she so chooses. Being supportive does not mean that you claim to agree with someone’s position when you don’t agree with it. If "debate" is required to get some facts or opinions out into the light of day, it should occur. The alternative is that we all hear only the things we like hearing. Susan — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I am here to tell you.. I saw no grass either. I Google Earthed her .. a lot of weeks ago. Ain’t no grass there, LOL. Well..look at it like this. No grass, no lawn to maintain, I suppose. To me, I’d be okay with that, but that is laziness, or depression or just knowing I didn’t want to get out and mow in that kind of heat or something. I think I would make the move.. Just knowing what bad schools can be like nowadays. I really wonder. If I had little kids now.. I may even decide to just home school them. I don’t know. I just might, in today’s world. I do know, my sons behaved better before they began school than after they started – they picked up some rather bad habits from the other kids, kind of shocked me, really. They had issues- we never had issues about until they’d learned some things from some other children. I don’t mean it lightly when I say "move." I just did it. I think it’s going to take an act of God, or maybe dynamite to get me to move again anytime soon. It’s difficult, and ..not an easy thing to just pick up and move. But your kids are a good enough reason to do that. sounds like a mass exodus from that school. That tells you a lot. The water bottle thing.. oh.. it’s probably a good thing that is not one of my kids. I tended to be a bit of a mother hen about things like that.. I would go in on the school, and they would remember me for a long time before I was finished saying what I wanted to say. LOL .. I can uh.. let it rip if I feel like one of my kids is being hurt in some way. I’m still that way and they are grown men. Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I agree that the administrators and teachers should run the school, but with input from a parents. A school is a community of sorts, and good schools take everyone’s opinion into consideration and do what is best for all.

sure … but not necessarily in day-to-day management In our case, the administrators are simply making crazy rules that have nothing to do with the quality of the school or education and everything to do with being control freaks. These are good schools, with excellent test scores (over the past few years they’ve been open) and excellent teachers. The teachers are not allowed any input either–it is a matter of the owners making arbitrary rules that don’t benefit anyone. The teachers are not in agreement with these rules, either. There was no problem with backpacks, lunchboxes,

you understand, Dawn, that the basic charter school "bargain" is increased operational autonomy in exchange for greater accountability, right ? So it should come as no surprise that those who run the school are motivated to meet whatever standards have been set for them, especially so if your owners are a "for-profit" entity. They don’t want anyone else running the show if it’s their bottom line at stake. For this reason, I am none too fond of this kind of arrangement and I don’t care how many armies of free-market Chicago-school economists say it’s the only rational way to operate any institution. There are, in my view, certain institutions which should remain as far from the influence of profit motivation as possible … these would include schools and prisons. I lean towards a libertarian point of view but there are indeed some things which the government should be involved in. That said, it needs to do a better job at it and instead of centralizing educational control with garbage like NCLB it should yield to the local level to the fullest extent possible. At least that’s MY two cents on the matter. I would try to send my kids to a private school; it’s expensive but there is often scholarship money to be had. No water bottles in a dry, hot desert environment is an absolutely ridiculous, and dangerous, rule. My daughter’s class will have P.E. in the hottest part of the day with NO water but drinking fountains that are never cleaned and are under trees where birds poop on them. If my daughter collapses from dehydration, or even worse, gets extremely ill, you can bet I’ll be suing the owners and I’ll own the school before I’m through.

WHY aren’t they cleaning the water fountains ?? Does EVERY kid have to bring a stash of Evian or Perrier to school to avoid E-Coli infection or avian flu ? That’s nuts. Bring your digital camera over there, take a few good shots of the bird shit, and send them to the principal. They WILL clean them up and/or move them. And yes … the all-too-familiar lawsuit bravado … Dawn, I’m an attorney; listen to me … you DO NOT want to be involved in litigation with your child’s school for the next five years … you really, really don’t … if it’s THAT dangerous, yank her out of the damn place. Now. Susan — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The water bottle thing.. oh.. it’s probably a good thing that is not one of my kids. I tended to be a bit of a mother hen about things like that.. I would go in on the school, and they would remember me for a long time before I was finished saying what I wanted to say. LOL .. I can uh.. let it rip if I feel like one of my kids is being hurt in some way. I’m still that way and they are grown men. we all feel that way, Sally … BUT there are parents appearing in schools to demand that there kids be able to use their cell phones at ALL TIMES "in case there is an emergency" … that’s just for openers … If parents want better schools with better outcomes they absolutely MUST let the administrators and teachers run them, not the kids and parents. Susan

My mother. My grandmother. My older son. Two of my best friends from high school. All elementary teachers. All of them. My son is head teacher for several schools here. I know a bit about teachers. I know a bit about schools. I know bits about them you probably are unaware of, unless you come from the background that I do. You are preaching to the choir when you preach to me. I decided NOT to become a teacher, based upon my knowledge of what I would face. I know all about it. No water bottles – in a desert climate..is assinine. I did not mention or refer to cell phones. Water. Heat. Life. It matters. Cell phones are superfluous. Water is not. I know for a fact.. sometimes the educators and the administrators need to be put in their places. You should have seen my mother.. a teacher.. and how she reacted the day the principal of the school (I attended the same school she taught in)..the principal decided that I would eat everything on my lunch plate. She put her job on the line because of it. She was not going to let anyone force me to eat a plate of food I did not want ever again. You should have heard her telephone conversation the day a teacher decided my hair was hanging in my face and it needed to be fixed. LOL. I would LOVE for you to have heard that conversation. Just love it. My mother could cut a tree down with her tongue. So can I if it’s necessary, like in a case where I think I need to take up my kids’ part..you bet I would. My kid is the reason those folks with the titles and positions have a job in the first place. They better be there to teach.. not to harm. My mother.. did not believe that everything that administrators or teachers did was fine, simply because they managed to obtain the position they had. She should know. She was one. I took her word for it, and grew up hearing stories that might give you an insight into the way the system actually works. Some teachers and adminstrators are less equipped or suitable to be in the positions they hold – than I would be. That is a fact. If you’re telling me teachers should be given the right to teach, I agree. I know how hard my family and friends have worked, and how difficult their jobs are/were. Schools aren’t there to dictate anything that puts a kid’s health – physical or mental health..in any kind of jeopardy. If they feel they need to do that to "educate"..they need to close their doors. They have become useless torture mills if that is how they feel they must run their institutions. Knowing what I do know about schools. I’d have to not care at bit about my kids to just blindly hand them over to any school and not monitor what was being done both for them and to them. I know too much to not do that. Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Susan, I agree that the administrators and teachers should run the school, but with input from a parents. A school is a community of sorts, and good schools take everyone’s opinion into consideration and do what is best for all. In our case, the administrators are simply making crazy rules that have nothing to do with the quality of the school or education and everything to do with being control freaks. These are good schools, with excellent test scores (over the past few years they’ve been open) and excellent teachers. The teachers are not allowed any input either–it is a matter of the owners making arbitrary rules that don’t benefit anyone. The teachers are not in agreement with these rules, either. There was no problem with backpacks, lunchboxes, No water bottles in a dry, hot desert environment is an absolutely ridiculous, and dangerous, rule. My daughter’s class will have P.E. in the hottest part of the day with NO water but drinking fountains that are never cleaned and are under trees where birds poop on them. If my daughter collapses from dehydration, or even worse, gets extremely ill, you can bet I’ll be suing the owners and I’ll own the school before I’m through. There are no parents demanding special concessions–just parents who want their children’s lunches to be insulated so they won’t spoil and for them to have fresh water to drink in the hot desert. Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

<gently snipped ::Any thoughts? Maybe someone will come up with something I haven’t thought ::of. I am having a ton of anxiety over this. It’s occupying my every waking ::moment as thoughts roll around in my head, over and over. I’m the worst ::decision maker in the world! Dear Dawn, Of course only you and your husband can make this decision. Once you decide what to do, you`ll anxiety will dissipate. If this were me, I think I would move. Your daughter is young enough where it shouldn`t be terribly stressful. In my opinion, moving during the junior high/high school years is a bit more traumatic for teenagers. The fact that ten kids are not returning to the charter school indicates something is not quite right. It`s crazy to not allow children to bring water bottles to school in the desert. Did they ever give a reason why? I had my two older kids in preschool together when they were toddlers. At first I liked the school…. then I started getting the feeling they were not allowing the kids to be kids. I got taken to task because I let Joshua and Kristen go to school with the backpacks my Mom had bought them. The director of the preschool actually asked me ‘what were you thinking allowing your kids to bring backpacks’. I was flabbergasted! To me backpacks and school is like a baseball games and hotdogs. You can`t have one without the other. This director is making me feel like my kids were freaks for having backpacks. LOL! Another day I was approached by the director because my two had misbehaved this one day. I had a million thoughts of what they could have done, all of them horrible things These are the same two that used to feed their fish milk and raisins. Anything was possible To my horror, she told me they committed the heinous act of taking off their shoes during class <gasp. The final straw was when the director approached me another time and told me Joshua was saying very bad words in school. She couldn`t even say the words to me. She had written them on a piece of paper, folded it and placed it in my hand. I drove down the street for a bit, pulled over because I had to know what curse words he had uttered in school. I opened the paper and there was written, ‘pee-pee and poo-poo’. I am not kidding. I let them finish out that year but would not let them return in the Fall. A few years later when they got older, they told me they hated that school. Have you asked Katie if she likes her current school? Ask her, you may be surprised. Good luck Dawn! Let us know what you decide. Jackie ~*~Be kind, remember everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle~*~ ~~ T.H. Thompson — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

The water bottle thing.. oh.. it’s probably a good thing that is not one of my kids. I tended to be a bit of a mother hen about things like that.. I would go in on the school, and they would remember me for a long time before I was finished saying what I wanted to say. LOL .. I can uh.. let it rip if I feel like one of my kids is being hurt in some way. I’m still that way and they are grown men.

we all feel that way, Sally … BUT there are parents appearing in schools to demand that there kids be able to use their cell phones at ALL TIMES "in case there is an emergency" … that’s just for openers … If parents want better schools with better outcomes they absolutely MUST let the administrators and teachers run them, not the kids and parents. Susan — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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It sounds like you have LOADS of good reasons to move. What are the good reasons to stay, besides the fact that you love your house (which is not a bad reason to stay)? Deirdre — Well, the only things we could come up with were the house and yard . Oh, and the quiet neighborhood. But there are no guarantees it will remain that way because you never know who your next neighbors will be, anywhere. Oh, there was one more–not wanting to do the actual move–but that was a minor one.

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It sounds like you have LOADS of good reasons to move. What are the good reasons to stay, besides the fact that you love your house (which is not a bad reason to stay)? Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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It sounds like you have LOADS of good reasons to move. What are the good reasons to stay, besides the fact that you love your house (which is not a bad reason to stay)? Deirdre —

Well, the only things we could come up with were the house and yard . Oh, and the quiet neighborhood. But there are no guarantees it will remain that way because you never know who your next neighbors will be, anywhere. Oh, there was one more–not wanting to do the actual move–but that was a minor one. I guess we’re moving. Thanks, Deirdre! Love, Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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I have a major dilemma and I thought I’d throw it out to you all and see what you think. Here it is: 1. We live in a bad school district. There are some good schools, elementary and high schools (about two each), but no good junior high schools. By good, I mean with good test scores and limited crime. Our school district also won’t let us open enroll in any neighboring districts (there are two very good ones near us). 2. Katie currently attends a charter school system (4th grade) that contains an elementary, junior high and high school. These are excellent schools with good teachers, but the owners are difficult people and instate rules like no water bottles (we live in a hot, dry desert–everyone carries water bottles and all schools require them), no lunch boxes (paper bags) and no backpacks (they provide a tote bag). These are new rules this year, with a new principal. They fired the old one and her aide, both of whom all the kids adored, without notice after the end of last year. See, they wait until they know people can’t open enroll anywhere else because it’s too late and then they drop these rules and other stuff on us. I only wonder what they’ll do next. Last year they spent the first two weeks of school screaming at parents, children, and the principal on a daily basis. See, they tried to instate the aforementioned policies last year but waited too late so they backed off. We thought they were gone (the rules). No such luck. This time they sent out a letter over the summer. I see at least 10 kids from Katie’s grade alone are not coming back (there’s about 40 kids in her grade). So here is our dilemma: What can we do if Katie’s charter schools head even farther south? Notwithstanding the control-freak owners, said owners could sell the school, or run out of money, or just about anything could affect charter schools that probably wouldn’t be an issue in a regular school district. If she can’t go there anymore, we don’t have any options in our current home. There are no other good charter schools (I’ve looked at them all). Private school is too expensive and the good ones are religion-affiliated, which we don’t want. We refuse to use someone else’s address to attend another district–I’m not a good rule breaker and I’d live in fear of getting caught, which sometimes happens to others who try it. My idea is to move about a mile south of where we are to get into the better school district. I can see the houses in that district across the wash to the south–we’re that close. When we bought our home we didn’t figure on wanting to stay in it so long. Our neighborhood junior high and high school are the pits, even though we live in a nice neighborhood. I guess we just didn’t plan ahead enough. Does this sound reasonable, or am I going off half-cocked? We love our house, the neighborhood is safe and quiet, but there aren’t any kids nearby for Katie to play with and the houses are really far apart (1/3-2 acre lots) so even trick or treating is a no-go. She also can’t play outside by herself because it’s got a ton of open space and the wild critters are everywhere. We also don’t have any parks or amenities for the $40 a month we pay in HOA fees (goes to the roads–it’s a gated neighborhood and the HOA owns them). Also, our house is too big for the three of us (2400 sq.ft.) and I’d like a smaller home for ease of cleaning and lack of wasted space. The neighborhood we want to move to is one of those experimental neighborhoods where the houses are all close together with the garages in back and they’re all "green" construction. They’re going for more of a small-town, old fashioned feel with front porces, a lot of rear garages, tree-lined streets, etc. There are neighborhood shops and parks and a rec center and all kinds of things we don’t have now. It’s so close that we would be near all the stores and things we have access to now. Here’s a link to the neighborhood web site: www.civanoneighbors.com If you are curious and want to see the homes, there’s a link on that site to current homes for sale and www.longrealty.com has an mls number search. Here are some of the mls numbers of the ones we like: 2623942 2619421 2620632 2609916 2621850 2612086 2616629 2608063 2627552 2618944 2623526 Any thoughts? Maybe someone will come up with something I haven’t thought of. I am having a ton of anxiety over this. It’s occupying my every waking moment as thoughts roll around in my head, over and over. I’m the worst decision maker in the world! Thanks so much if you read all this. Love, Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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