Run Run Away

Question:

I have been running for 20 years at about 60 miles a week. I am now 52 and in the last six months my calves have been getting real tight off and on. Sometimes I can go for a couple of weeks with no discomfort and then it will start and I am forced to walk for 2 or 3 minutes and it is good again for ten minutes. My run are generally an hour in length four to five times a week. I have also been experiencing a tenderness at the back of my heel and under the arch of booth feet. I don’t know if these ailments are all related or if I am just falling apart. I presently do the leanings  on wall with hands and legs stretched out behind me to stretch calf before, after, and during run. anyone have similar probelems and better yet a suggested cure

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I have been running for 20 years at about 60 miles a week. I am now 52 and in the last six months my calves have been getting real tight off and on. Sometimes I can go for a couple of weeks with no discomfort and then it will start and I am forced to walk for 2 or 3 minutes and it is good again for ten minutes. My run are generally an hour in length four to five times a week. I have also been experiencing a

WOW. 60 miles a week in 4-5 1 hour runs. Thats 12-15 miles per hour. Let’s see,  15 miles per hour for an hour would whack 7 minutes plus off the current world record for the 1/2 marathon, with a few good victory laps thrown in for good measure. Even 12 mph is stretching credibility for a training pace. — Guy Steven 15 Massey Crescent, Christchurch New Zealand ph 355 6189 fax 355 6429

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| I have been running for 20 years at about 60 miles a week. I am now 52 | and in the last six months my calves have been getting real tight off | and on. Sometimes I can go for a couple of weeks with no discomfort | and then it will start and I am forced to walk for 2 or 3 minutes and | it is good again for ten minutes. My run are generally an hour in | length four to five times a week. I have also been experiencing a | | WOW. 60 miles a week in 4-5 1 hour runs. Thats 12-15 miles per hour. | Let’s see,  15 miles per hour for an hour would whack 7 minutes plus off | the current world record for the 1/2 marathon, with a few good victory | laps thrown in for good measure. Even 12 mph is stretching credibility | for a training pace. | | — Don’t be such a turkey. Key word in the original post: "about".

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Whoever gus stevens is I was obviously referring to time before injury in my younger days when I ran seven days a week and includes a twenty miler  for marathon training, now with injury or whatever it is my running is much reduced  and probably at about eight to nine mins a mile. I’m sure most readers understood what I meant and that I was giving a history leading up to present condition I wonder if you are as big an ass as your writing points to or are you just not in touch with other peoples concerns and live in your own cynical world. Have a nice day. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been running for 20 years at about 60 miles a week. I am now 52 and in the last six months my calves have been getting real tight off and on. Sometimes I can go for a couple of weeks with no discomfort and then it will start and I am forced to walk for 2 or 3 minutes and it is good again for ten minutes. My run are generally an hour in length four to five times a week. I have also been experiencing a WOW. 60 miles a week in 4-5 1 hour runs. Thats 12-15 miles per hour. Let’s see,  15 miles per hour for an hour would whack 7 minutes plus off the current world record for the 1/2 marathon, with a few good victory laps thrown in for good measure. Even 12 mph is stretching credibility for a training pace.

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This Spring my calves were so tight that somedays I couldn’t run. To cure this I stretched after every run and stretched at other times. I would stretch after walking to work, walk home for lunch and stretch, walk to work after lunch and stretch and walk home in the evening and stretch.  

: I have been running for 20 years at about 60 miles a week. I am now 52 : and in the last six months my calves have been getting real tight off : and on. Sometimes I can go for a couple of weeks with no discomfort : and then it will start and I am forced to walk for 2 or 3 minutes and : it is good again for ten minutes. My run are generally an hour in : length four to five times a week. I have also been experiencing a : tenderness at the back of my heel and under the arch of booth feet. I : don’t know if these ailments are all related or if I am just falling : apart. I presently do the leanings  on wall with hands and legs : stretched out behind me to stretch calf before, after, and during run. : anyone have similar probelems and better yet a suggested cure — Dale Summers telephone 701 231 8631 Information Technology Services North Dakota State University

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Whoever gus stevens is I was obviously referring to time before injury in my younger days when I ran seven days a week and includes a twenty miler  for marathon training, now with injury or whatever it is my running is much reduced  and probably at about eight to nine mins a mile. I’m sure most readers understood what I meant and that I was

I certainly did not understand from your statement that you run at about 60 miles per week that in fact you currently run between say 25 to 40 miles per week. If you had said so in your original post I wouldn’t have needed to venture out of my cynical little world. giving a history leading up to present condition I wonder if you are as big an ass as your writing points to or are you just not in touch with other peoples concerns and live in your own cynical world. Have a nice day.

I plan to. PS. Do you always get personal when someone points out that what you have written does not read the way you had intended it. PPS. I don’t know who gus stevens is. — Guy Steven 15 Massey Crescent, Christchurch New Zealand ph 355 6189 fax 355 6429

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PS. Do you always get personal when someone points out that what you have written does not read the way you had intended it.

Generally when someone comes out of the blue with a somewhat sarcastic response to a serious question, it is taken personally. That’s how most flame wars start. May I suggest resisting the impulse to get snippy until you’ve posted a bit more and we learn your idiosyncracies? Mike "Just a suggestion" Tennent "TriBop" ‘98 Ironman Canada, 16:17:03

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When I had this problem I stopped wearing heels entirely for a while… but I suppose that’s not helpful. I also stretched, often, and bought new running shoes.  I don’t know which of the three was resposible for the improvement. –R (who currently has a great collection of flats…) — Rachel Evanston, IL

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Massaging the calf muscles also helps loosen them up.

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I have been running for 20 years at about 60 miles a week. I am now 52 and in the last six months my calves have been getting real tight off and on. Sometimes I can go for a couple of weeks with no discomfort and then it will start and I am forced to walk for 2 or 3 minutes and it is good again for ten minutes. My run are generally an hour in length four to five times a week. I have also been experiencing a

Massage out the calves and shins.  This talks a little bit about the calves: http://www.mindfulness.com/mind/of1.html   See the picture to get an idea about rolling out the calves. Tendons for all intent and purposes are not suppose to stretch. The muscles above the Achilles tendon, soleus and gastrocs are suppose to do what muscles do: Contract and relax. Your calf muscles are contracting but only partially relaxing. When a knot in the calf occurs it tightens up to protect itself and won’t let go when you stretch it. If you continue to stretch, you stretch the good muscle fiber on either side of the knot. It, over time, gets over stretched and joins the knot. The end result is that you end up saying, stretching doesn’t work. It would if only you could stretch the knot. First work out the knot in the calf. Sit down. To find it, put your belly of the calf muscle over the knee of the other leg. Move the knee back and forth in the belly of the calf and you should find the knot. Remember when a muscle is sore and contracts, in the contracted state it doesn’t let you know it’s sore, until you start to feel around. Put your calf muscle over your knee, a railing, the back of a chair. Remember it’s the back of the calf muscle. You put the belly of the muscle over the back of the chair, or railing or knee. Slowly (lovingly) rotate it back and forth, that is side to side about a inch. Slowly move(slide) the leg up or down the back of the chair, etc. so that you "lovingly massage side to side the entire belly of the calf. Remember it you go too deep, too fast, too hard, you will only get the muscle to tighten up even more—getting the opposite of what you want. But remember your body is a system, so you may take the pressure off the Achilles, but the calf may be due to an overly tight shin muscle which only partially relaxes when the calf muscles are contracting, causing the calf problem. And the shin may be cause by the quad or ham from the other leg being tight so that you get more impact on the leg with the calf problem caused by the shin problem caused by….. And the reality may be due to the way you sit at your desk all day in poor posture which causes….. Anyway, see if you can massage out the calf. Then you can slowly start to think about the form and style of running. Let me know how it goes with the calf. Remember, what I’m sharing is folklore. That is, if it works use it. If it doesn’t, don’t give it any energy, Just chuck it out and look for something that makes more sense and works. Remember "DO NO HARM" — In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer – rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975

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Tendons for all intent and purposes are not suppose to stretch.

I believe the book Sport Stretch says something quite different. Bob

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My calves have become a problem for me not in running but rather in a skating jump and basketball.  I have started to focus on them with weight training, etc. Along with the very good massage recommendation I would suggest trying what has worked for me. On Wednesday I noticed that my left calf was tweaked and probably would not be ready for a basketball game on Friday. So I did the normal icing stuff. The next day I did plenty of massage, but I place an old wetsuit scrap over the area and held it in place with elastic.  This was for overnight and also under my work pants during the day.  More massage. I kept the thing on for the game on Friday.  My left achilles tightened up a bit even with stretching, but I was able to play full tilt full court for our normal 90 minutes.  I was surprised at how well this worked.  I think the secret is the heat the wrap creates. Luck, Bob

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Tendons for all intent and purposes are not suppose to stretch. I believe the book Sport Stretch says something quite different. Bob

Hi Bob, I’ll give a quote from John Jesse’s  Hidden Causes of Injury, Prevention and Correction for Running Athletes and Joggers, c 1977  and then I’ll wonder/wander aloud. pp.32-33 Fascia The connective tissue which forms enveloping sheaths around muscle is known as fascia.  …Protracted stress, however results in a permanent elongation.  Fascia also has a strong tendency to contract due to age, chilling, poor posture and muscular imbalance.  Contraction reduces the range of movement in body joints. Ligaments Most ligaments are almost pure collagenous tissue.  They are pliant and flexible, but at the same time strong and inextensible.  The exceptions to this are the ligaments of the spine and the spring ligament of the foot, which are made up almost entirely of elastin fibers and are quige elastic. All ligaments can bae permanently elongated if subjected to protraced stress from postural faults, bad leg alignment, or repetitive overstretching beyhond their maximum safety limits.  The term "sprina" refers to strained, torn, or ruptured ligaments. Tendons Tendons are generally composed of heavy collagenous fibers.  Most tendons form narrow bands or rounded cords, with the exception of aponeuroses, which is a flat sheet and classified by some writer as fascia (Oz:  Plantar fascia is an aponeuroses).  Tendons have great strength and are practically inelastic.  For me Bob, I look at muscles which are suppose to contract and relax to their tonic state which means their optimal state of balance.  If the calf muscle contracts and the because of tightness in a portion of the calf can only partially relax, that tension is passed on to the tendon…which I said "for all intent and purposes are not suppose to stretch."  It’s the muscle that’s suppose to do the stretching.  If the fascia around the calf muscles is contracted, you can stretch all you want but the fascia will keep the muscle from going through its full range of motion.  Where the fascia stops the muscle, then the tension is passed on to the next in line…the tendon.  Remember that tendon is white and grissly (sp.?) which means there’s very little blood flow to the tendon.  A reason by tendonitis (inflammation of the tendon) is slow to heal because of the limited blood supply to it.   Back to what I continue to say:  When someone is having an Achilles problem, it’s the calf which is the problem and the tendonitis is the symptom.  Actually it could be the hamstring or quad causing the calf problem, or incorrect postural alignment putting excessive tension on the calf which causes the Achilles problem.   Back to something I keep repeating to myself: "The body is a system. The presenting problem is a result and often the cause is something that a systems thinker broadens in looking as cause/effect. So what I am saying is that if Sport Stretch is saying something quite different, I’d like to know what they are saying so that I can better understand if it makes more sense, is another way of saying the same thing, or inaccurate because of the premises from which they started. The reason for continuing for over 4 years to write and expose my thoughts and ideas on rec.running is that I attempt to remain green and growing.  I am here not to simply answer questions; rather I have been hanging around the likes of Mike/Tribop, Sam, Miles, Doug, Ray, Madeleine, Rod, Charlie, George, Steve, Rick, Charlie, Denny, Bob Frick, you, Ben, whose names pour from memory and your posts/replies along with so many others whose names are not as embedded in mind. After reading Hoffman’s response to giving advice,  I continue to agree with St George when he said, "Talk to a runner/marathoner first or better a doctor who is a runner/marathoner to see what info they’ve heard from other runners that might be of help to you.  The people who are contributors to rec.running and have been on an ongoing basis for years come here for the community and also to have their thinking and perceiving challenged.   If I am a fraud of full of myself, it’s pretty fast feedback running in a community with transparent CRTs and who know the sanctity and confidentiality experienced on the long run.  I remain a goldmine of folklore on running, marathoning and all aspects attached from injury prevention to almost 25 years of continuing to do psychotherapy on the walk or run.   True, I also remain a legend in my own mind. The work I do allows me the time to play around at rec.running…although the book is coming.  You can check out some of my folklore at                www.mindfulness.com.   Look under Mindful Running.  Most of it has been e-published here at one time or another.  The truth be told, if all those who have shared their folklore and wisdom so freely were to have been paid for what was shared on rec.running, they/we would probably have no need to do any other work to support our families and futures.  The wisdom on rec.running remains in my mind a rich resource which is priceless but is often mistaken as valueless because it’s free and mixed in with fool’s gold and lumps of coal dressed as diamonds.  Back to It’s all folklore.  Find what works for you and makes sense and use it, otherwise give it no energy or power, but find someone who does make sense or makes you think. Anyway,  I just got back from the Marathon Clinic where Mary Burnett just came down to run with us for the first time in 10 years.  Helped train her for the Avenue of the Giants.  I would also like to mention the passing of Paul Salter who never lost his marathon spirit of living life fully. We saw him continue to attend the clinic with his 4 pronged cane as bone cancer took about 6 inches from his height and gave him broken bones.  He was there to be with friends and do what he loved to do…run…althought it was a slow run of 25 or 30 minute miles.  I’ll write a eulogy and share his poems in the future. I am back at Tai Chi practicing to run faster by using total body movement to move slower.   Oh you can get Jesse’s book from me.  The info: Here’s a reference book for your running library that you will use for years to come. If you want to purchase a copy of one of the books which I still use as a guide to answering questions and understanding running problems, send $15 which covers the price of the book and shipping/handling. The book is: Hidden Causes of Injury, Prevention And Correction, for Running Athletes and Joggers  by John Jesse, 1977. Excerpt from the Intro. Make out the $15 check or money order to: IAM or Int’l Assoc. of Marathoners c/o Ozzie Gontang 2903 29th Street San Diego, CA 92104 John Jesse was a team mate at USC with Payton Jordon who was the US Olympic head track and field coach in 1968. John wrote this book for you and me, so that we could understand through popular language, and with scientific and technical language kept to a minimum but using diagrams, illustrations or short glossaries so we the laymen could understand should we want to delve deeper. Hidden Causes of Injury, Prevention And Correction, for Running Athletes and Joggers   by John Jesse, 1977. Excerpt from the Intro: "Three of the four hidden factors (of injury) – muscular imbalance, postural faults, and foot faults – are so common among the general population that it is doubtful whether any young athlete enters the field of athletic competition without being affected to a lesser or greater degree by one or more of them." "The writer (John Jesse) believes a more detailed and complete discussion of these factors and of the methods of correcting them or preventing their further development will enable the coach, trainer, and athlete jto cope with them early in the young athlete’s career. It will enable the athlete to reduce to a minimum the number of roadblocks and setbacks he(she) suffers during training and in pursuit of his(her) goals." "The information presented here should be of great value to the several million physical fitness joggers and runners in the population, because the book is aimed at providing understandable answers to all injuries that interrupt their progress toward attainment of an increased level of cardiovascular fitness, or that interfere with the psychological satisfactions obtained from engaging in such activities." "The human body supports itself against gravity, segment upon segment, relying on the muscles and ligaments that cross the joints, along with postural reflexes, to maintain an erect position and proper body alignment. Hence, there has to be a total or "holistic" approach to prevention and to correction of the hidden factors mentioned above. The reader must integrate his/her thinking to a total body concept." (A friend of my at the Senior World Masters in Oregon in August saw Payton Jordon at 80 run the 400.  She said his run was poetry in motion) — In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer – rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975

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don’t rule out compartment syndrome though it is relatively rare it seems more and more of us runners are falling prey to this insidious problem.  it is basically the muscles in your calves becoming too big for their fasical compartment. this is the basic explanation. the only way to check for it is with a compartment pressure check done by an ortho doc. other symptoms can include numbness in feet, extremely tight calf muscles and pressure and cramping. good luck

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