Run Run Away » running shoes » Guns & Flyfishing & Morons
Guns & Flyfishing & Morons
Question:
George, If I may impose on you just a little,I am going to the copper(Iliamna) on aug. 8. What flies,would you recommend ?(up to 4 or 5). Thanks, Rob Roy
Response:
—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over, I came across a lapel button last year that read "People Eating Tasty Animals". Anybody know where I can get a supply of them? It drove the Bambi people nuts til I lost it.
http://www.peta.org It was registered as People for the Eating of Tasty Animals. The AR loonies shat bricks about that, but they didn’t get the domain name. The last time I was there was over a year ago, but it had a damn fine wild game cookbook online. At any rate, someone there might be able to set you up. —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.6.2 iQEUAwUBNu3ydZdiUzdLFqlpAQE+2gf4ngNGKE9hUwYUmK/cwY7iqBniuAXYm7CQ WrW6aGLFGv2l8vkqxDJGrImpBS6b7Sdovx+I4ak9UKO2p+ghuNdnpvehMzW/7e1Q PoVVJD/0+TtD9oJqioAnFVgBRuxjxbpyfHxBtAl/griqI/vGS1JuXOV5wJ+ChAaT ecf6f8Yi8q9eKlNpCaB5sFaV9iDIyvttMUPprLyrj1XfxqlH65U4ojwGwRNbaXdD G0qOo6nFxQI2qVuSYqftv8geoMeYL6l89L14CzZp6UAhW3EC/eAGs4C2RHZTjCI8 sPMB2WIvJXjLvZSZ0szmitQM01guItyoyXKcxAA27AjYROYxplJg =2qSi —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– Mike S. Medintz, http://www.grapevine.net/~medintz "I can try to get used to what she likes, but if I hear that ‘From This Moment’ song one more time I’m-a gonna go postal." "I love Topeka," by T.J.J. Williams
Response:
If I’m remembering right, the Alaska law also says that if you do kill a bear in self defence, the head, hide, and paws go to the state. That way, you don’t get a trophy. Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As for fining a person who legitimately shots a bear in self defense, I think the law is wrong. Until we get rid of the animals are people too attitude, all of our rights as sportsmen are in danger. The law in Alaska on shooting bears is fine. Check out the state fish and game website. It basically says that you can shoot a bear if, and only if, it is endangering you or destroying your means of survival (your camp, your transportation or your food). You may specifically NOT shoot a bear that is eating your game or fish, and you are criminally liable if you do not take measures to protect your game and fish from bear depredations. The ranger in King Salmon that I talked to last year said that he was not aware of ANY bears killed in backwoods confrontations in the last year, though there were the well publicised encounters at the edge of civilization, a couple of which resulted in both people and bears dying. As to the guns, we carry both .44’s and shotguns, and carry ‘popper’ shells for the shotguns in addition to slugs. The poppers are M-80 firecrackers in a morter like shell, and they do an excellent job of rousting Yogi. As to whether the .44 is adequate, I’m not sure that I’m protecting myself as much as getting my licks in. And my buddies carry the shotguns. — Andrew Brunette
Response:
Hummm… .44 Mag. Be sure to file off the front sight so’s it won’t hurt so much if someone has to pull it back out of where Mr. (or Ms.) Griz is likely to put it. Most professionals might opt for a magnum of pepper spray. If you have time to get it out and point it in the right direction it’s a whole lot more likely to stop a serious charge than a couple of .44 slugs at ANY velocity. I expect the bear you describe didn’t know you were human until you moved and whistled. It stood up to try and see better. Great story though. J. Rice – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Middle of the Copper River long before the rest of the world discovered it for what it is. A pretty darned good fishing hole. Patty, my guide and a freckled faced Irish Woman at that, had more balls then most men do. She is pure moxie and the kind of gal every dad wished would grow up to be their best fishing buddy. Pat was into her second year (heck, it was probably her first year) of guiding out of Lake Illiamna Lodge. Jim Repine was way down river from me, out of sight and I’m sure . . . sound. I wonder up river around this little bend and step upon this little tongue of island into the pool above it, right where it parted. The river is crystal clear, you can drink the water right where you stand, and its about 2 1/2 feet deep. Well, its up to the hips and that is getting deep for a wader in chesters. I spy some nice rainbows and as I start to cast I hear this roar. To my amazement, from up river comes this huge female, blonde and fat Kodiak Brown. She is, in a word . . . pissed. She is charging like a Sherman Tank and I see nothing but head, red mouth and a mile of tongue, rippling chest and two, great paws with pearled claws glistening in the sun, parting a river like it was tissue paper! I didn’t dare run. Everything, for me turning into slow motion. It meant my mind was racing at the speed of light. I had time to think about everything. It is world I entered only during aerial combat. Things that seem to be happening fast to everyone else, for some of us – is like a slow motion. I really didn’t think about anything ‘in particular,’ I just watched her coming and when I figured she was about where I wanted her to be – a part of my mind I know little of – caused me to throw up both hands and I whistled my short, shrill whistle and it startled her and she stopped to a sliding stop, not more then twenty yards away from me . . . and she stood up. She stood up her full, 11 foot height and she took her full measure of me. Seeing a wild beast such as this, uncontrolled, out of a zoo, no bars to separate you from IT, is a rapid return to reality. Things outdoors are deadly, they can kill you, and there are no rules except ‘the bluff’ or the rebuff. I want your ground, give it too me or pay the price! It was an offer I couldn’t refuse. I slowly, slipped my hand inside my vest and wrapped my hand around my .38 Smith & Wesson. I never felt more stupid in my life.. From behind me, I hear a Model 12 Winchester rack and Patty saying calmly, "Back up George, slowly. Come to me big fellow. You did good." I say matter of factly, "okay." And that is what I did. In due course, I’m out of danger. Pat notices my hand under my vest and she asks, are you holding your heart or chest George? "No, I have a gun here but don’t ask me anything about it. You would embarrass me." "I’m surprised you didn’t draw it out. Anyone else would have." I give her a nice, one armed hug and quiet ‘thank you.’ When I returned home. The very next day. I went and bought myself the gun that really was made for just a guy like me. A S&W .44 Now here, is a gun for all seasons and all reasons. Mr. G. — Visit: http://www.gink.com
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good story – I have one almost the same. … But what I am writing about is appropriate guns for bear protection. … … When I was guiding, I had to shoot a large grizzly – I had a .300 magnum rifle. … … As for a pistol, I actually did kill a grizzly with a 44 magnum. … … a repeating shotgun with slugs will do about as well as anything – at very close range. I shot a bear with a shotgun also and it really did stop him. The gun I used guiding to trail bears was a 458 magnum, and that is good protection. But do not think that a handgun is a good weapon against bears … if I did not have the 458, I would most likely buy some slugs for the shotgun. It is a powerful gun for *close range* protection. I want to emphasize *close range*. ….
If we’re not careful we’ll end up cross-posting to rec.guns. *8^} Both Kermit and Mr. G. have put some fabulous, well-written stories here. Even at this distance (California) I pucker a bit while reading them. Some 15 years ago some rangers in Alaska did some objective testing and the results match very closely the recitals here: http://www.outdoorhq.com/misc/usdarept.htm#Top Merriwether Lewis’ .50 Kentucky rifle wasn’t always enough, either. Think I’d rather deal with poachers, though. — "Did you ever walk in a room and forget why you walked in? I think that’s how dogs spend their lives." — Sue Murphy
Response:
I came across a lapel button last year that read "People Eating Tasty Animals". Anybody know where I can get a supply of them? It drove the Bambi people nuts til I lost it. Hank
There is a Web site by that name (People Eating Tasty Animals) I don’t have the address but you should be able to find it with your search engine. Good luck. Joel Axelrad
Response:
http://mtd.com/tasty/ I came across a lapel button last year that read "People Eating Tasty Animals". Anybody know where I can get a supply of them? It drove the Bambi people nuts til I lost it. Hank There is a Web site by that name (People Eating Tasty Animals) I don’t have the address but you should be able to find it with your search engine. Good luck. Joel Axelrad
– Bragging may not bring happiness, but no man having caught a large fish, goes home through the alley. Anonymous http://fish-n-net.com/
Response:
I came across a lapel button last year that read "People Eating Tasty Animals". Anybody know where I can get a supply of them? It drove the Bambi people nuts til I lost it. Hank – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – , Until we get rid of the animals are people too Rob Butts http://web.mountain.net/~rbutts As for the bear I shot three times, each shot was as perfect as it could be, as far as I am concerned. The reason I gave that example is to show that even with a large rifle and close to perfect shots, it can be extremely difficult to stop a bear. With this experienced observation in mind, consider that the guys on the Lewis & Clark expedition were taking brown bears -some for food and some in self-defense – using your basic 1804 vintage flintlock. Probably .50 caliber Mark Faulkner
Response:
(Nonsense snipped) Before anyone says another word about guns vs. Grizzlies, I sugguest that they read Mark of the Grizzly (ISBN 1-56044-636-6). 18 first hand encounters between humans and grizzlies are documented and each and every survivor of an attack said that guns were useless. Not enough time to react to a charging bear was cited by most victims. All recommended pepper spray. Large quantities of pepper spray strapped to your chest with Velcro. Park rangers here in Glacier Park say that if you must pack heat, use a shotgun with slugs. (example of pss poor shooting snipped) Now, Patty had the right idea – a repeating shotgun with slugs will do about as well as anything – at very close range. I shot a bear with a shotgun also and it really did stop him. The gun I used guiding to trail bears was a 458 magnum, and that is good protection. But do not think that a handgun is a good weapon against bears – for most people it is probably much worse than nothing at all.
Correct. By the time you get the pistol out of the holster, the charging bear is munching on your bones. I am currently planning a month long trip into the Northwest Territories, and if I did not have the 458, I would most likely buy some slugs for the shotgun. It is a powerful gun for *close range* protection. I want to emphasize *close range*. You should never shoot at a bear unless he is very close, as your chances are much better betting on the charge being a bluff charge rather than betting on stopping a charging grizzly with any gun. As the saying goes: The bear would have caught me, but I had traction and he didn’t.
Best defense against being eaten by a bear is to hike with a person who runs slower than you do. Cheers, -Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
Best defense against being eaten by a bear is to hike with a person who runs slower than you do. Old Joke: Two guys are being chased by a bear when one stops and begins taking off his hiking boots and putting on running shoes. "Don’t be crazy," his friend says, "you’ll never be able to outrun that bear." "I don’t have to outrun the bear," he replies, "I only have to outrun you." Joe
Response:
Great Story George! noone will ever complain about posts like these. Please continue to share great posts like this with us. Even though I did a bit of PHEWing about your ads today, I still think you are great.. — Matt Blickensderfer * A Grouchy German is a Sour Kraut! *
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Middle of the Copper River long before the rest of the world discovered it for what it is. A pretty darned good fishing hole. Patty, my guide and a freckled faced Irish Woman at that, had more balls then most men do. She is pure moxie and the kind of gal every dad wished would grow up to be their best fishing buddy. Pat was into her second year (heck, it was probably her first year) of guiding out of Lake Illiamna Lodge. Jim Repine was way down river from me, out of sight and I’m sure . . . sound. I wonder up river around this little bend and step upon this little tongue of island into the pool above it, right where it parted. The river is crystal clear, you can drink the water right where you stand, and its about 2 1/2 feet deep. Well, its up to the hips and that is getting deep for a wader in chesters. I spy some nice rainbows and as I start to cast I hear this roar. To my amazement, from up river comes this huge female, blonde and fat Kodiak Brown. She is, in a word . . . pissed. She is charging like a Sherman Tank and I see nothing but head, red mouth and a mile of tongue, rippling chest and two, great paws with pearled claws glistening in the sun, parting a river like it was tissue paper! I didn’t dare run. Everything, for me turning into slow motion. It meant my mind was racing at the speed of light. I had time to think about everything. It is world I entered only during aerial combat. Things that seem to be happening fast to everyone else, for some of us – is like a slow motion. I really didn’t think about anything ‘in particular,’ I just watched her coming and when I figured she was about where I wanted her to be – a part of my mind I know little of – caused me to throw up both hands and I whistled my short, shrill whistle and it startled her and she stopped to a sliding stop, not more then twenty yards away from me . . . and she stood up. She stood up her full, 11 foot height and she took her full measure of me. Seeing a wild beast such as this, uncontrolled, out of a zoo, no bars to separate you from IT, is a rapid return to reality. Things outdoors are deadly, they can kill you, and there are no rules except ‘the bluff’ or the rebuff. I want your ground, give it too me or pay the price! It was an offer I couldn’t refuse. I slowly, slipped my hand inside my vest and wrapped my hand around my .38 Smith & Wesson. I never felt more stupid in my life.. From behind me, I hear a Model 12 Winchester rack and Patty saying calmly, "Back up George, slowly. Come to me big fellow. You did good." I say matter of factly, "okay." And that is what I did. In due course, I’m out of danger. Pat notices my hand under my vest and she asks, are you holding your heart or chest George? "No, I have a gun here but don’t ask me anything about it. You would embarrass me." "I’m surprised you didn’t draw it out. Anyone else would have." I give her a nice, one armed hug and quiet ‘thank you.’ When I returned home. The very next day. I went and bought myself the gun that really was made for just a guy like me. A S&W .44 Now here, is a gun for all seasons and all reasons. Mr. G. — Visit: http://www.gink.com
Response:
_______ I’ve put in a request to the Alaska Legislature to put a $20,000 fine on anyone killing a charging bear in Alaska. No excuses. It will stop a lot of the senseless slaughter of innocent bears confronting morons like me. If I or anyone HAD to kill a bear, I think anyone who does should be glad to pay $20,000 for saving their own lives. It should not be left open to ‘opinions.’ George Thanks for sharing your experience Kerm. Mr. G. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good story – I have one almost the same. It was probably an even closer call. I was in the Park and all I had was a camera, as it is illegal to carry a gun there. But what I am writing about is appropriate guns for bear protection. This is something that I do know something about, and I would like to share it with anyone who is thinking about buying a gun for protection against bears. If a grizzly does not know that you are there, it is generally fairly easy to kill. But if it is aware of you and excited, about the only thing you can do with a gun is to get a lucky shot or start breaking bones so he cannot move. I’ll give you an example. When I was guiding, I had to shoot a large grizzly – I had a .300 magnum rifle. His adrenaline was going, and the first shot took out the front shoulder and went through the chest area. Going on three legs did not seem to slow him up much, and the second shot took out both the other shoulder and a hind leg. When I finished him with the third shot, he was turning somersaults using his only remaining leg. The point is that I was using a very powerful rifle, and it took three well placed shots to stop the bear. I have heard of a bear that took fifteen shots to stop. A heart shot will not stop a bear if he is excited – he can still cover a considerable distance and kill you. As for a pistol, I actually did kill a grizzly with a 44 magnum. I was young – and very dumb – and I loved excitement. The shot was a killing shot but the bear did not even flinch that I could see anyway. I could hear him a short distance away from his labored breathing, and an hour later when I finished him with another shot, he managed to get up when I got to him. The first shot was as good a shot as could be made – other than a lucky spine shot – and if he had come my way he would have killed me. From that time on, I quit carrying the 44 magnum. Now, Patty had the right idea – a repeating shotgun with slugs will do about as well as anything – at very close range. I shot a bear with a shotgun also and it really did stop him. The gun I used guiding to trail bears was a 458 magnum, and that is good protection. But do not think that a handgun is a good weapon against bears – for most people it is probably much worse than nothing at all. I am currently planning a month long trip into the Northwest Territories, and if I did not have the 458, I would most likely buy some slugs for the shotgun. It is a powerful gun for *close range* protection. I want to emphasize *close range*. You should never shoot at a bear unless he is very close, as your chances are much better betting on the charge being a bluff charge rather than betting on stopping a charging grizzly with any gun. As the saying goes: The bear would have caught me, but I had traction and he didn’t. Kermit Johnson
– Visit: http://www.gink.com
Response:
Seriously, though, where I currently go to camp and fish is Canada, and it is not legal to take pepper spray into that country. The border guards always ask if I have any when I cross the border.
It is legal to take pepper spray into Canada if it’s Bear Spray and not personal protection. I’ve had trouble, too, and I’ve had pepper spray "held" at Customs til I return to the States. You just have to have the REALLY big canisters and insist on talking to a supervisor and you can clear Canadian Customs with capascin. It’s not easy, but it’s not illegal and it can be done. Having said that, and having sprayed a hungry black she bear at point blank range, I wouldn’t count on pepper spray to protect me against a brown or griz. — Ken Fortenberry
Response:
As for the bear I shot three times, each shot was as perfect as it could be, as far as I am concerned. The reason I gave that example is to show that even with a large rifle and close to perfect shots, it can be extremely difficult to stop a bear.
With this experienced observation in mind, consider that the guys on the Lewis & Clark expedition were taking brown bears -some for food and some in self-defense – using your basic 1804 vintage flintlock. Probably .50 caliber Mark Faulkner
Response:
As for the men of the Lewis & Clark expedition, during one of their bear encounters, the shot a bear 13 or 14 times and the bear chased them back across the river before it died. I think in the L&C notes, the men said after several tangles with the bears that they would rather leave them alone (can’t remember the exact words). Men may have been men back then, but remember, they didn’t have laws or game wardens to stop 10 guys from shooting the same bear at once. As for fining a person who legitimately shots a bear in self defense, I think the law is wrong. Until we get rid of the animals are people too attitude, all of our rights as sportsmen are in danger. Rob Butts http://web.mountain.net/~rbutts – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As for the bear I shot three times, each shot was as perfect as it could be, as far as I am concerned. The reason I gave that example is to show that even with a large rifle and close to perfect shots, it can be extremely difficult to stop a bear. With this experienced observation in mind, consider that the guys on the Lewis & Clark expedition were taking brown bears -some for food and some in self-defense – using your basic 1804 vintage flintlock. Probably .50 caliber Mark Faulkner
Response:
As for fining a person who legitimately shots a bear in self defense, I think the law is wrong. Until we get rid of the animals are people too attitude, all of our rights as sportsmen are in danger.
The law in Alaska on shooting bears is fine. Check out the state fish and game website. It basically says that you can shoot a bear if, and only if, it is endangering you or destroying your means of survival (your camp, your transportation or your food). You may specifically NOT shoot a bear that is eating your game or fish, and you are criminally liable if you do not take measures to protect your game and fish from bear depredations. The ranger in King Salmon that I talked to last year said that he was not aware of ANY bears killed in backwoods confrontations in the last year, though there were the well publicised encounters at the edge of civilization, a couple of which resulted in both people and bears dying. As to the guns, we carry both .44’s and shotguns, and carry ‘popper’ shells for the shotguns in addition to slugs. The poppers are M-80 firecrackers in a morter like shell, and they do an excellent job of rousting Yogi. As to whether the .44 is adequate, I’m not sure that I’m protecting myself as much as getting my licks in. And my buddies carry the shotguns. — Andrew Brunette
Response:
Good story – I have one almost the same. It was probably an even closer call. I was in the Park and all I had was a camera, as it is illegal to carry a gun there. But what I am writing about is appropriate guns for bear protection. This is something that I do know something about, and I would like to share it with anyone who is thinking about buying a gun for protection against bears. If a grizzly does not know that you are there, it is generally fairly easy to kill. But if it is aware of you and excited, about the only thing you can do with a gun is to get a lucky shot or start breaking bones so he cannot move. I’ll give you an example. When I was guiding, I had to shoot a large grizzly – I had a .300 magnum rifle. His adrenaline was going, and the first shot took out the front shoulder and went through the chest area. Going on three legs did not seem to slow him up much, and the second shot took out both the other shoulder and a hind leg. When I finished him with the third shot, he was turning somersaults using his only remaining leg. The point is that I was using a very powerful rifle, and it took three well placed shots to stop the bear. I have heard of a bear that took fifteen shots to stop. A heart shot will not stop a bear if he is excited – he can still cover a considerable distance and kill you. As for a pistol, I actually did kill a grizzly with a 44 magnum. I was young – and very dumb – and I loved excitement. The shot was a killing shot but the bear did not even flinch that I could see anyway. I could hear him a short distance away from his labored breathing, and an hour later when I finished him with another shot, he managed to get up when I got to him. The first shot was as good a shot as could be made – other than a lucky spine shot – and if he had come my way he would have killed me. From that time on, I quit carrying the 44 magnum. Now, Patty had the right idea – a repeating shotgun with slugs will do about as well as anything – at very close range. I shot a bear with a shotgun also and it really did stop him. The gun I used guiding to trail bears was a 458 magnum, and that is good protection. But do not think that a handgun is a good weapon against bears – for most people it is probably much worse than nothing at all. I am currently planning a month long trip into the Northwest Territories, and if I did not have the 458, I would most likely buy some slugs for the shotgun. It is a powerful gun for *close range* protection. I want to emphasize *close range*. You should never shoot at a bear unless he is very close, as your chances are much better betting on the charge being a bluff charge rather than betting on stopping a charging grizzly with any gun. As the saying goes: The bear would have caught me, but I had traction and he didn’t. Kermit Johnson
Response:
Middle of the Copper River long before the rest of the world discovered it for what it is. A pretty darned good fishing hole. Patty, my guide and a freckled faced Irish Woman at that, had more balls then most men do. She is pure moxie and the kind of gal every dad wished would grow up to be their best fishing buddy. Pat was into her second year (heck, it was probably her first year) of guiding out of Lake Illiamna Lodge. Jim Repine was way down river from me, out of sight and I’m sure . . . sound. I wonder up river around this little bend and step upon this little tongue of island into the pool above it, right where it parted. The river is crystal clear, you can drink the water right where you stand, and its about 2 1/2 feet deep. Well, its up to the hips and that is getting deep for a wader in chesters. I spy some nice rainbows and as I start to cast I hear this roar. To my amazement, from up river comes this huge female, blonde and fat Kodiak Brown. She is, in a word . . . pissed. She is charging like a Sherman Tank and I see nothing but head, red mouth and a mile of tongue, rippling chest and two, great paws with pearled claws glistening in the sun, parting a river like it was tissue paper! I didn’t dare run. Everything, for me turning into slow motion. It meant my mind was racing at the speed of light. I had time to think about everything. It is world I entered only during aerial combat. Things that seem to be happening fast to everyone else, for some of us – is like a slow motion. I really didn’t think about anything ‘in particular,’ I just watched her coming and when I figured she was about where I wanted her to be – a part of my mind I know little of – caused me to throw up both hands and I whistled my short, shrill whistle and it startled her and she stopped to a sliding stop, not more then twenty yards away from me . . . and she stood up. She stood up her full, 11 foot height and she took her full measure of me. Seeing a wild beast such as this, uncontrolled, out of a zoo, no bars to separate you from IT, is a rapid return to reality. Things outdoors are deadly, they can kill you, and there are no rules except ‘the bluff’ or the rebuff. I want your ground, give it too me or pay the price! It was an offer I couldn’t refuse. I slowly, slipped my hand inside my vest and wrapped my hand around my .38 Smith & Wesson. I never felt more stupid in my life.. From behind me, I hear a Model 12 Winchester rack and Patty saying calmly, "Back up George, slowly. Come to me big fellow. You did good." I say matter of factly, "okay." And that is what I did. In due course, I’m out of danger. Pat notices my hand under my vest and she asks, are you holding your heart or chest George? "No, I have a gun here but don’t ask me anything about it. You would embarrass me." "I’m surprised you didn’t draw it out. Anyone else would have." I give her a nice, one armed hug and quiet ‘thank you.’ When I returned home. The very next day. I went and bought myself the gun that really was made for just a guy like me. A S&W .44 Now here, is a gun for all seasons and all reasons. Mr. G. — Visit: http://www.gink.com
Response:
Bob: My intuition told me that I would get mail on this. I guess I feel that I need to comment on a couple of things. (Nonsense snipped)
About a 44 magnum being a bear gun, yes, but I knew from the account of the charge that George had experienced something that few people ever experience, and it brought back memories. I have witnessed people getting close to grizzly bears for the first time, and there is something from way back in our evolution that comes to the surface. There is no way someone can predict how they will react prior to the encounter. Often the second time the feeling can be controlled, but for that first time it can be a real surprise. This is why normally good hunters can often make very poor shots. Before anyone says another word about guns vs. Grizzlies, I sugguest that they read Mark of the Grizzly (ISBN 1-56044-636-6). 18 first hand encounters between humans and grizzlies are documented and each and every survivor of an attack said that guns were useless. Not enough time to react to a charging bear was cited by most victims.
Even the book’s title makes me cringe – must have been written by a yuppie to have a title like that. (Yuppie is difficult to define, but I know it when I meet it <g.) But, as I said, for most people it is better to take the risk that it is a bluff charge than to shoot at the bear. The blanket statement that "guns are useless" would be BS – in my experience anyway. And I have spent a great deal of time in grizzly country guiding, backpacking, and photographing wildlife. All recommended pepper spray. Large quantities of pepper spray strapped to your chest with Velcro.
This might be more hazardous to my health that meeting a bear. Meeting a yuppie fisherman or hiker with large numbers of cans of pepper spray velcroed to his chest might make me die laughing. I will admit, this made my day – I’m still LOL. Seriously, though, where I currently go to camp and fish is Canada, and it is not legal to take pepper spray into that country. The border guards always ask if I have any when I cross the border. Park rangers here in Glacier Park say that if you must pack heat, use a shotgun with slugs.
I have little respect for Park rangers, but in this case they got it right – unless you have a large bore rifle. My experience is that a shotgun with slugs is much more effective than a 30-06 at close range. (example of pss poor shooting snipped)
I assume you mean the 15 shots. I was not involved with this, but the problem a guide has is that his hunter often does not make the first shot a good one. This can be the case for various reasons, often for the reaction I mentioned above, or just that he doesn’t consider it important enough to become a good shot. If the first shot is a poor one, the guide has *big* trouble. Parting the brush with your rifle barrel looking for a wounded grizzly is more excitement than you want – even if you are young and dumb. Even a 458 feels small at that time. As for the bear I shot three times, each shot was as perfect as it could be, as far as I am concerned. The reason I gave that example is to show that even with a large rifle and close to perfect shots, it can be extremely difficult to stop a bear. Correct. By the time you get the pistol out of the holster, the charging bear is munching on your bones.
In the country I have traveled, this is not correct at all. The problem is that there is not nearly enough stopping power with a pistol. It is simple physics – the 458 has (if I remember from many years ago) over 5000 ft-lbs of energy close range, and a big bear will stop it all with a bullet that big around. This is probably why a shotgun with slugs is good – the diameter of the slug ensures that the entire energy is stopped by the bear. My experience is that you have to break bones to stop a bear. defense against being eaten by a bear is to hike with a person who runs slower than you do.
I assume that you meant this as a joke. A self absorbed yuppie would probably think this way. If that was in my mind and I survived when my companion did not, the rest of my life would be difficult to say the least. Also, as for myself, I hate to be completely dependent on the bear’s decision as to whether or not I live. As for George’s suggestion that there be a $20,000 fine for shooting a charging bear – it’s really not too bad an idea. I am grinning, however, thinking about what reception that proposal would receive with residents of that state. This seems to be off-topic, and I will gladly quit. I think it is important, however, if someone is considering whether or not to carry a gun while fishing in bear country, to get information from someone who has considerable experience with bears and not some yuppie writer or young park ranger who has no idea what it takes to stop a charging grizzly. The only place that I know of to get that information is from someone who has actually shot several bears. You may not like the idea of bear hunting, and I haven’t hunted for nearly thirty years, but you might benefit, IMO, from my hunting experience. There are a lot of opinions out there about bears, and making the wrong decision based on guesswork can skew the odds against your surviving a bear charge. In this country, pepper spray might be the best choice, but I have never had the opportunity to test it. I just know that it would be difficult for me to go fishing with several cans of pepper spray velcroed to my body. (LOL – again) Kermit