Run Run Away » running jogging

I walk so fast…

admin — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I walked to the movie theater today. It took 7 minutes. I zip along like I used to do in high school. Good god, what will it be like when I reach my goal weight?

ZOOM : ) 100 POUNDS

Wow! Congratulations! Nicky. — HbA1c 10.5/6.4/<6 Weight 95/81/72 1g Metformin, 75ug Thyroxine T2 DX 05/2004

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I walked to the movie theater today. It took 7 minutes. I zip along like I used to do in high school. Good god, what will it be like when I reach my goal weight? 100 POUNDS My scale didn’t read in tenths, when I weighed in at 311 back in November 2003. I figure today’s 211.6 is close enough to declare the century mark achieved. Truth be told, I weighed 328 on a friend’s bathroom scale back in 2001. That weight was with my clothes on, and his bathroom scale reads about 2 or 3 pounds high, so I figure I was about 320. Fitday Graph: http://techmart.com/~cubit/Chart50.gif Cubit 311/211/165 LC since 12/01/2003

Congrats – great work!!

Response:

Good for you! Great work!

Response:

good.

|| I walked to the movie theater today. It took 7 minutes. I zip || along like I used to do in high school. Good god, what will it be || like when I reach my goal weight? || || 100 POUNDS || || My scale didn’t read in tenths, when I weighed in at 311 back in || November 2003. I figure today’s 211.6 is close enough to declare || the century mark achieved. || || Truth be told, I weighed 328 on a friend’s bathroom scale back in || 2001. That weight was with my clothes on, and his bathroom scale || reads about 2 or 3 pounds high, so I figure I was about 320. || || Fitday Graph: http://techmart.com/~cubit/Chart50.gif || || Cubit || 311/211/165 || LC since 12/01/2003

Response:

CONGRATULATIONS !!! I’m sure you’ll be doing marathons soon ! Keep it up ronda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I walked to the movie theater today. It took 7 minutes. I zip along like I used to do in high school. Good god, what will it be like when I reach my goal weight? 100 POUNDS My scale didn’t read in tenths, when I weighed in at 311 back in November 2003. I figure today’s 211.6 is close enough to declare the century mark achieved. Truth be told, I weighed 328 on a friend’s bathroom scale back in 2001. That weight was with my clothes on, and his bathroom scale reads about 2 or 3 pounds high, so I figure I was about 320. Fitday Graph: http://techmart.com/~cubit/Chart50.gif Cubit 311/211/165 LC since 12/01/2003

Response:

Excellent, Cubit! You’ve made wonderful progress! Keep it up! — Linda 296/191.4/160 LC since Oct. 13, 2003 Now a happy member of the ‘100lbs. Gone Club’! http://home.att.net/~lewis_linda/index.html http://community.webshots.com/user/mslewtoo "Are you telling me there are dead people in my living room watching videos?"–Nina (Truly, Madly, Deeply)

Response:

Way to go Cubit. Fantastic. — Bear- Grrrrrrrrrrrr :o)

Response:

I walked to the movie theater today. It took 7 minutes. I zip along like I used to do in high school. Good god, what will it be like when I reach my goal weight? 100 POUNDS My scale didn’t read in tenths, when I weighed in at 311 back in November 2003. I figure today’s 211.6 is close enough to declare the century mark achieved. Truth be told, I weighed 328 on a friend’s bathroom scale back in 2001. That weight was with my clothes on, and his bathroom scale reads about 2 or 3 pounds high, so I figure I was about 320. Fitday Graph: http://techmart.com/~cubit/Chart50.gif Cubit 311/211/165 LC since 12/01/2003

Response:

Congratulations. That’s a lot of weight. Keep up the good work. Tom

Response:

I walked to the movie theater today. It took 7 minutes. I zip along like I used to do in high school. Good god, what will it be like when I reach my goal weight?

You’ll be running. :-) Way to go.

Response:

100 POUNDS My scale didn’t read in tenths, when I weighed in at 311 back in November 2003. I figure today’s 211.6 is close enough to declare the century mark achieved.

CONGRATULATIONS!!! AWESOME achievement! — Saffire 205/147/125 - 5′1.5" Atkins since 6/14/03 Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

Response:

Sounds good. I hope NOT to loose 100 pounds, because that would put me at 140 lbs and 5′ 6" tall. When I DID weigh that, I was really skinny…. my face was sort of boney. One of these days, I will keep my promise to take up running/jogging as part of my exercise. Keep on with it. Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I walked to the movie theater today. It took 7 minutes. I zip along like I used to do in high school. Good god, what will it be like when I reach my goal weight? 100 POUNDS My scale didn’t read in tenths, when I weighed in at 311 back in November 2003. I figure today’s 211.6 is close enough to declare the century mark achieved. Truth be told, I weighed 328 on a friend’s bathroom scale back in 2001. That weight was with my clothes on, and his bathroom scale reads about 2 or 3 pounds high, so I figure I was about 320. Fitday Graph: http://techmart.com/~cubit/Chart50.gif Cubit 311/211/165 LC since 12/01/2003

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Response:

100 POUNDS My scale didn’t read in tenths, when I weighed in at 311 back in November 2003. I figure today’s 211.6 is close enough to declare the century mark achieved.

All right, Cubit! That’s a fabulous milestone. Congratulations! Carol — "Years ago my mother used to say to me… She’d say, ‘In this world Elwood, you must be oh-so smart or oh-so pleasant.’ Well, for years I was smart…. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me." *James Stewart* in the 1950 movie, _Harvey_

Response:

Congratulations on reaching an amazing milestone!! Lybbe Started Bernstein Diet October 2, 2004 – 243.0 Today’s weight – 233.2 Goal – 150 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I walked to the movie theater today. It took 7 minutes. I zip along like I used to do in high school. Good god, what will it be like when I reach my goal weight? 100 POUNDS My scale didn’t read in tenths, when I weighed in at 311 back in November 2003. I figure today’s 211.6 is close enough to declare the century mark achieved. Truth be told, I weighed 328 on a friend’s bathroom scale back in 2001. That weight was with my clothes on, and his bathroom scale reads about 2 or 3 pounds high, so I figure I was about 320. Fitday Graph: http://techmart.com/~cubit/Chart50.gif Cubit 311/211/165 LC since 12/01/2003

Response:

100 POUNDS

Sweet! Congratulations! I’m surprised you’re not flying! Keep up the good work, Cubit. HG

Response:

[Fwd: McDonnell-Douglas warranty registration]

admin — Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Yes, very nice indeed. The whole thing is suitably absquatulant and I shall be passing it around to my flying friends. Cheers, Dave Yes – until I read this post I’d never heard the word either. :) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Interesting one from uk.rec.aviation. Newsgroups: uk.rec.aviation This was allegedly posted very briefly on the McDonnell-Douglas Website by an employee there who obviously has a sense of humour. The company, of course, does not have a sense of humour, and made the web department take it down immediately. Thank you for purchasing a McDonnell Douglas military aircraft. In order to protect your new investment, please take a few moments to fill out the warranty registration card below. Answering the survey questions is not required, but the information will help us to develop new products that best meet your needs and desires. 1. [_] Mr. [_] Mrs. [_] Ms. [_] Miss [_] Lt. [_] Gen. [_] Comrade [_] Classified [_] Other First Name: Initial: Last Name: 2. Which model aircraft did you purchase? [_] F-14 Tomcat [_] F-15 Eagle [_] F-16 Falcon [_] F-117A Stealth [_] Classified 5. Please indicate where this product was purchased: [_] Received as gift / aid package [_] Catalogue / showroom [_] Independent arms broker [_] Mail order [_] Discount store [_] Government surplus [_] Classified 6. Please indicate how you became aware of the McDonnell Douglas product you have just purchased: [_] Heard loud noise, looked up [_] Store display [_] Espionage [_] Recommended by friend / relative / ally [_] Political lobbying by manufacturer [_] Was attacked by one 7. Please indicate the three (3) factors that most influenced your decision to purchase this McDonnell Douglas product: [_] Style / appearance [_] Speed / manoeuvrability [_] Price / value [_] Comfort / convenience [_] Kickback / bribe [_] Recommended by salesperson [_] McDonnell Douglas reputation [_] Advanced Weapons Systems [_] Backroom politics [_] Negative experience opposing one in combat 8. Please indicate the location(s) where this product will be used: [_] North America [_] Iraq [_] Iran [_] Aircraft carrier [_] Iraq [_] Europe [_] Iraq [_] Middle East (not Iraq) [_] Iraq [_] Africa [_] Iraq [_] Asia / Far East [_] Iraq [_] Misc. Third World countries [_] Iraq [_] Classified [_] Iraq 9. Please indicate the products that you currently own or intend to purchase in the near future: [_] Colour TV [_] VCR [_] ICBM [_] Killer Satellite [_] CD Player [_] Air-to-Air Missiles [_] Space Shuttle [_] Home Computer [_] Nuclear Weapon 10. How would you describe yourself or your organisation? (Indicate all that apply:) [_] Communist / Socialist [_] Terrorist [_] Crazed [_] Neutral [_] Democratic [_] Dictatorship [_] Corrupt [_] Primitive / Tribal 11. How did you pay for your McDonnell Douglas product? [_] Deficit spending [_] Cash [_] Suitcases of cocaine [_] Oil revenues [_] Personal cheque [_] Credit card [_] Ransom money [_] Traveller’s cheque 12. Your occupation: [_] Homemaker [_] Sales / marketing [_] Revolutionary [_] Clerical [_] Mercenary [_] Tyrant [_] Middle management [_] Eccentric billionaire [_] Defence Minister / General [_] Retired [_] Student 13. To help us better understand our customers, please indicate the interests and activities in which you and your spouse enjoy participating on a regular basis: [_] Golf [_] Boating / sailing [_] Sabotage [_] Running / jogging [_] Propaganda / misinformation [_] Destabilisation / overthrow [_] Default on loans [_] Gardening [_] Crafts [_] Black market / smuggling [_] Collectibles / collections [_] Watching sports on TV [_] Wines [_] Interrogation / torture [_] Household pets [_] Crushing rebellions [_] Espionage / reconnaissance [_] Fashion clothing [_] Border disputes [_] Mutually Assured Destruction Thank you for taking the time to fill out this questionnaire. Your answers will be used in market studies that will help McDonnell Douglas serve you better in the future – as well as allowing you to receive mailings and special offers from other companies, governments, extremist groups, and mysterious consortia. As a bonus for responding to this survey, you will be registered to win a brand new F-117A in our Desert Thunder Sweepstakes! Comments or suggestions about our fighter planes? Please write to: McDONNELL DOUGLAS CORPORATION Marketing Department Military Aerospace Division IMPORTANT: This email is intended for the use of the individual addressee(s) named above and may contain information that is confidential, privileged or unsuitable for overly sensitive persons with low self-esteem, no sense of humour or irrational religious beliefs. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is not authorised (either explicitly or implicitly) and constitutes an irritating social faux pas. Unless the word absquatulation has been used in its correct context somewhere other than in this warning, it does not have any legal or grammatical use and may be ignored. No animals were harmed in the transmission of this email, although the kelpie next door is living on borrowed time, let me tell you. Those of you with an overwhelming fear of the unknown will be gratified to learn that there is no hidden message revealed by reading this warning backwards, so just ignore that Alert Notice from Microsoft. However, by pouring a complete circle of salt around yourself and your computer you can ensure that no harm befalls you and your pets. If you have received this email in error, please add some nutmeg and egg whites and place it in a warm oven for 40 minutes. Whisk briefly and let it stand for 2 hours before icing. — http://armsofmorpheus.blogspot.com/ "Why of course the people don’t want war. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them that they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger." -Herman Goering, Hiltler’s designated successor http://www.stuffmongers.com/

Response:

LOVE IT!!! Favourite would have to be: 6. Please indicate how you became aware of the McDonnell Douglas product you have just purchased: [_] Heard loud noise, looked up lol jad – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Interesting one from uk.rec.aviation. Newsgroups: uk.rec.aviation This was allegedly posted very briefly on the McDonnell-Douglas Website by an employee there who obviously has a sense of humour. The company, of course, does not have a sense of humour, and made the web department take it down immediately. Thank you for purchasing a McDonnell Douglas military aircraft. In order to protect your new investment, please take a few moments to fill out the warranty registration card below. Answering the survey questions is not required, but the information will help us to develop new products that best meet your needs and desires. 1. [_] Mr. [_] Mrs. [_] Ms. [_] Miss [_] Lt. [_] Gen. [_] Comrade [_] Classified [_] Other First Name: Initial: Last Name: 2. Which model aircraft did you purchase? [_] F-14 Tomcat [_] F-15 Eagle [_] F-16 Falcon [_] F-117A Stealth [_] Classified 5. Please indicate where this product was purchased: [_] Received as gift / aid package [_] Catalogue / showroom [_] Independent arms broker [_] Mail order [_] Discount store [_] Government surplus [_] Classified 6. Please indicate how you became aware of the McDonnell Douglas product you have just purchased: [_] Heard loud noise, looked up [_] Store display [_] Espionage [_] Recommended by friend / relative / ally [_] Political lobbying by manufacturer [_] Was attacked by one 7. Please indicate the three (3) factors that most influenced your decision to purchase this McDonnell Douglas product: [_] Style / appearance [_] Speed / manoeuvrability [_] Price / value [_] Comfort / convenience [_] Kickback / bribe [_] Recommended by salesperson [_] McDonnell Douglas reputation [_] Advanced Weapons Systems [_] Backroom politics [_] Negative experience opposing one in combat 8. Please indicate the location(s) where this product will be used: [_] North America [_] Iraq [_] Iran [_] Aircraft carrier [_] Iraq [_] Europe [_] Iraq [_] Middle East (not Iraq) [_] Iraq [_] Africa [_] Iraq [_] Asia / Far East [_] Iraq [_] Misc. Third World countries [_] Iraq [_] Classified [_] Iraq 9. Please indicate the products that you currently own or intend to purchase in the near future: [_] Colour TV [_] VCR [_] ICBM [_] Killer Satellite [_] CD Player [_] Air-to-Air Missiles [_] Space Shuttle [_] Home Computer [_] Nuclear Weapon 10. How would you describe yourself or your organisation? (Indicate all that apply:) [_] Communist / Socialist [_] Terrorist [_] Crazed [_] Neutral [_] Democratic [_] Dictatorship [_] Corrupt [_] Primitive / Tribal 11. How did you pay for your McDonnell Douglas product? [_] Deficit spending [_] Cash [_] Suitcases of cocaine [_] Oil revenues [_] Personal cheque [_] Credit card [_] Ransom money [_] Traveller’s cheque 12. Your occupation: [_] Homemaker [_] Sales / marketing [_] Revolutionary [_] Clerical [_] Mercenary [_] Tyrant [_] Middle management [_] Eccentric billionaire [_] Defence Minister / General [_] Retired [_] Student 13. To help us better understand our customers, please indicate the interests and activities in which you and your spouse enjoy participating on a regular basis: [_] Golf [_] Boating / sailing [_] Sabotage [_] Running / jogging [_] Propaganda / misinformation [_] Destabilisation / overthrow [_] Default on loans [_] Gardening [_] Crafts [_] Black market / smuggling [_] Collectibles / collections [_] Watching sports on TV [_] Wines [_] Interrogation / torture [_] Household pets [_] Crushing rebellions [_] Espionage / reconnaissance [_] Fashion clothing [_] Border disputes [_] Mutually Assured Destruction Thank you for taking the time to fill out this questionnaire. Your answers will be used in market studies that will help McDonnell Douglas serve you better in the future – as well as allowing you to receive mailings and special offers from other companies, governments, extremist groups, and mysterious consortia. As a bonus for responding to this survey, you will be registered to win a brand new F-117A in our Desert Thunder Sweepstakes! Comments or suggestions about our fighter planes? Please write to: McDONNELL DOUGLAS CORPORATION Marketing Department Military Aerospace Division IMPORTANT: This email is intended for the use of the individual addressee(s) named above and may contain information that is confidential, privileged or unsuitable for overly sensitive persons with low self-esteem, no sense of humour or irrational religious beliefs. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is not authorised (either explicitly or implicitly) and constitutes an irritating social faux pas. Unless the word absquatulation has been used in its correct context somewhere other than in this warning, it does not have any legal or grammatical use and may be ignored. No animals were harmed in the transmission of this email, although the kelpie next door is living on borrowed time, let me tell you. Those of you with an overwhelming fear of the unknown will be gratified to learn that there is no hidden message revealed by reading this warning backwards, so just ignore that Alert Notice from Microsoft. However, by pouring a complete circle of salt around yourself and your computer you can ensure that no harm befalls you and your pets. If you have received this email in error, please add some nutmeg and egg whites and place it in a warm oven for 40 minutes. Whisk briefly and let it stand for 2 hours before icing.

Response:

Interesting one from uk.rec.aviation. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: uk.rec.aviation This was allegedly posted very briefly on the McDonnell-Douglas Website by an employee there who obviously has a sense of humour. The company, of course, does not have a sense of humour, and made the web department take it down immediately. Thank you for purchasing a McDonnell Douglas military aircraft. In order to protect your new investment, please take a few moments to fill out the warranty registration card below. Answering the survey questions is not required, but the information will help us to develop new products that best meet your needs and desires. 1. [_] Mr. [_] Mrs. [_] Ms. [_] Miss [_] Lt. [_] Gen. [_] Comrade [_] Classified [_] Other First Name: Initial: Last Name: 2. Which model aircraft did you purchase? [_] F-14 Tomcat [_] F-15 Eagle [_] F-16 Falcon [_] F-117A Stealth [_] Classified 5. Please indicate where this product was purchased: [_] Received as gift / aid package [_] Catalogue / showroom [_] Independent arms broker [_] Mail order [_] Discount store [_] Government surplus [_] Classified 6. Please indicate how you became aware of the McDonnell Douglas product you have just purchased: [_] Heard loud noise, looked up [_] Store display [_] Espionage [_] Recommended by friend / relative / ally [_] Political lobbying by manufacturer [_] Was attacked by one 7. Please indicate the three (3) factors that most influenced your decision to purchase this McDonnell Douglas product: [_] Style / appearance [_] Speed / manoeuvrability [_] Price / value [_] Comfort / convenience [_] Kickback / bribe [_] Recommended by salesperson [_] McDonnell Douglas reputation [_] Advanced Weapons Systems [_] Backroom politics [_] Negative experience opposing one in combat 8. Please indicate the location(s) where this product will be used: [_] North America [_] Iraq [_] Iran [_] Aircraft carrier [_] Iraq [_] Europe [_] Iraq [_] Middle East (not Iraq) [_] Iraq [_] Africa [_] Iraq [_] Asia / Far East [_] Iraq [_] Misc. Third World countries [_] Iraq [_] Classified [_] Iraq 9. Please indicate the products that you currently own or intend to purchase in the near future: [_] Colour TV [_] VCR [_] ICBM [_] Killer Satellite [_] CD Player [_] Air-to-Air Missiles [_] Space Shuttle [_] Home Computer [_] Nuclear Weapon 10. How would you describe yourself or your organisation? (Indicate all that apply:) [_] Communist / Socialist [_] Terrorist [_] Crazed [_] Neutral [_] Democratic [_] Dictatorship [_] Corrupt [_] Primitive / Tribal 11. How did you pay for your McDonnell Douglas product? [_] Deficit spending [_] Cash [_] Suitcases of cocaine [_] Oil revenues [_] Personal cheque [_] Credit card [_] Ransom money [_] Traveller’s cheque 12. Your occupation: [_] Homemaker [_] Sales / marketing [_] Revolutionary [_] Clerical [_] Mercenary [_] Tyrant [_] Middle management [_] Eccentric billionaire [_] Defence Minister / General [_] Retired [_] Student 13. To help us better understand our customers, please indicate the interests and activities in which you and your spouse enjoy participating on a regular basis: [_] Golf [_] Boating / sailing [_] Sabotage [_] Running / jogging [_] Propaganda / misinformation [_] Destabilisation / overthrow [_] Default on loans [_] Gardening [_] Crafts [_] Black market / smuggling [_] Collectibles / collections [_] Watching sports on TV [_] Wines [_] Interrogation / torture [_] Household pets [_] Crushing rebellions [_] Espionage / reconnaissance [_] Fashion clothing [_] Border disputes [_] Mutually Assured Destruction Thank you for taking the time to fill out this questionnaire. Your answers will be used in market studies that will help McDonnell Douglas serve you better in the future – as well as allowing you to receive mailings and special offers from other companies, governments, extremist groups, and mysterious consortia. As a bonus for responding to this survey, you will be registered to win a brand new F-117A in our Desert Thunder Sweepstakes! Comments or suggestions about our fighter planes? Please write to: McDONNELL DOUGLAS CORPORATION Marketing Department Military Aerospace Division IMPORTANT: This email is intended for the use of the individual addressee(s) named above and may contain information that is confidential, privileged or unsuitable for overly sensitive persons with low self-esteem, no sense of humour or irrational religious beliefs. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is not authorised (either explicitly or implicitly) and constitutes an irritating social faux pas. Unless the word absquatulation has been used in its correct context somewhere other than in this warning, it does not have any legal or grammatical use and may be ignored. No animals were harmed in the transmission of this email, although the kelpie next door is living on borrowed time, let me tell you. Those of you with an overwhelming fear of the unknown will be gratified to learn that there is no hidden message revealed by reading this warning backwards, so just ignore that Alert Notice from Microsoft. However, by pouring a complete circle of salt around yourself and your computer you can ensure that no harm befalls you and your pets. If you have received this email in error, please add some nutmeg and egg whites and place it in a warm oven for 40 minutes. Whisk briefly and let it stand for 2 hours before icing. — http://armsofmorpheus.blogspot.com/ "Why of course the people don’t want war. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them that they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger." -Herman Goering, Hiltler’s designated successor http://www.stuffmongers.com/

Response:

I'm dejected

admin — Sun, 04 Jul 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

About three weeks I started again, this time in earnest. Not only am

I really avoiding almost all carbs, but I am running about 2-3 miles, 4 times a week. < Be very careful runing that much with NO CARBS. I hurt myself pretty badly by doing that. We don’t always know what is good for us. Thought I did. Ended up tearing up my calf muscle pretty bad after a 4 mile bike ride after not having any carbs for about 2 or 3 weeks. Was very stupid. — Sheli

Response:

Not blaming "low Carb" …I was close to NO carb. Very unhealthy way to eat. Our bodies need some carbs which is why the injuries do not happen if you low carb in the correct manner.

I’ve yet to hear any reason why my body needs carbs. Carbs are simply fuel; they have no other value. I can burn protein and fat as fuel, so I don’t need carbs. The only reason I eat any carbs at all is for the other things in the food. If I had an Anti-Carb Kill-O-Zap gun that would blast the carbs out of food while leaving it exactly the same otherwise, I’d use it on everything I eat. As I understand it, the reason people carb up before an intense workout is because glucose stored in the muscles can be burned more quickly than fat, so it’s better for sustaining long bursts of energy for lifting weights or sprinting. For a more aerobic workout, I’d rather just burn fat the whole time. I’d say it also depends on the shape you’re already in. If you already have a low body-fat percentage, you’d better give your body something else to burn during a workout, or it might burn some muscle. If you have lots of extra fat to burn, it seems like that wouldn’t be as much of a problem. Bicyclists, runners …most atheletes will tell you they "carb up" before or after a work out. Low carbers just take in less bad carbs.

I started running (jogging, really) about 3 months ago. I could barely last 60 seconds at a stretch the first day, but I’ve worked up to 4 miles three times a week. Saturday I ran in my first 5K race. (Hannibal Cannibal, 34:14 was my time.) No carb-ups, except for a bit of a candy bar binge one time, which was also the only day I got side cramps. — Aaron 285/225/200

Response:

Not blaming "low Carb" …I was close to NO carb. Very unhealthy way to eat. Our bodies need some carbs which is why the injuries do not happen if you low carb in the correct manner. Bicyclists, runners …most atheletes will tell you they "carb up" before or after a work out. Low carbers just take in less bad carbs. — Sheli

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would not blame low carb for a muscle injury. Sometimes shit happens. About three weeks I started again, this time in earnest. Not only am I really avoiding almost all carbs, but I am running about 2-3 miles, 4 times a week. < Be very careful runing that much with NO CARBS. I hurt myself pretty badly by doing that. We don’t always know what is good for us. Thought I did. Ended up tearing up my calf muscle pretty bad after a 4 mile bike ride after not having any carbs for about 2 or 3 weeks. Was very stupid. — Sheli

Response:

I would not blame low carb for a muscle injury. Sometimes shit happens.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – About three weeks I started again, this time in earnest. Not only am I really avoiding almost all carbs, but I am running about 2-3 miles, 4 times a week. < Be very careful runing that much with NO CARBS. I hurt myself pretty badly by doing that. We don’t always know what is good for us. Thought I did. Ended up tearing up my calf muscle pretty bad after a 4 mile bike ride after not having any carbs for about 2 or 3 weeks. Was very stupid. — Sheli

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I went on LC back in 99, and lost about 25 pounds, and eventually gained it back. Even back then it took about three weeks before weight loss kicked in. I’ve tried half heartedly several times since then, but with no success. About three weeks I started again, this time in earnest. Not only am I really avoiding almost all carbs, but I am running about 2-3 miles, 4 times a week. Nevertheless, the scale seems stuck on 208 (My goal weight would be 180-185), Possible explanations: Too much dairy? I always eat cottage cheese with eggs. Weight lifting? I have been doing pretty heavy lifting in addition to the running. Too much caffeine? Lots of coffee, and lots of diet coke. I eat some nuts (raw almonds) and peanut butter, but really try to keep it under control. I haven’t eaten bread, rice, potatoes or hardly any sugar at all (no deserts at all) in several weeks, and the scale doesn’t budge. What a curse. (I should add that the scale doesn’t budge, I do seem to have lost some in the waist–about an inch I would say).

My guess (and that’s all it is based on the info you’ve given) is that you’re consuming more carbs than you think you are. You say you’re "really avoiding almost all carbs" then you go on to list cottage cheese, eggs, peanut butter, nuts, lots of coffee, and ‘hardly’ any sugar all of which have carbs. I would suggest you sign up for Fitday http://www.fitday.com (it’s free) and track everything you eat to see where you really are in terms of calories and carbs. Don’t forget, calories still count. If you eat too many you aren’t going to lose weight no matter how few carbs you eat. — Jeri "Change is inevitable, except from vending machines."

Response:

I went on LC back in 99, and lost about 25 pounds, and eventually gained it back. Even back then it took about three weeks before weight loss kicked in. I’ve tried half heartedly several times since then, but with no success. About three weeks I started again, this time in earnest. Not only am I really avoiding almost all carbs, but I am running about 2-3 miles, 4 times a week. Nevertheless, the scale seems stuck on 208 (My goal weight would be 180-185), Possible explanations: Too much dairy? I always eat cottage cheese with eggs. Weight lifting? I have been doing pretty heavy lifting in addition to the running. Too much caffeine? Lots of coffee, and lots of diet coke. I eat some nuts (raw almonds) and peanut butter, but really try to keep it under control. I haven’t eaten bread, rice, potatoes or hardly any sugar at all (no deserts at all) in several weeks, and the scale doesn’t budge. What a curse. (I should add that the scale doesn’t budge, I do seem to have lost some in the waist–about an inch I would say).

Response:

Some people will say if you don’t lose anything the first two weeks, then you aren’t low-carbing properly.

How much do you eat? The general rule is to eat just enough to satisfy hunger. If you eat until you feel full, you’re eating too much. Weight lifting? I have been doing pretty heavy lifting in addition to the running. Too much caffeine? Lots of coffee, and lots of diet coke.

Some people report an inability to lose when using aspartame (diet coke). YMMV. Diet Rite offers several flavors and uses Splenda (sucralose). I won’t comment on the caffeine – I still drink my coffee. Are you drinking plenty of water? I eat some nuts (raw almonds) and peanut butter, but really try to keep it under control.

Walnuts, pecans, and macadamias are great, too. I haven’t eaten bread, rice, potatoes or hardly any sugar at all (no deserts at all) in several weeks, and the scale doesn’t budge. What a curse. (I should add that the scale doesn’t budge, I do seem to have lost some in the waist–about an inch I would say).

If you’ve lost inches, it will soon show on the scale. What plan are you following? I don’t see any mention of green vegetables above, and all plans include those from the outset. Are you a vegetarian? (I didn’t see any mention of meats, poultry, fish or seafood, either.) Keep at it. You may not see a loss every week. As close as you are to goal weight, it will probably come off slowly, but that’s said to be best, as you’re more likely to keep it off that way. Welcome to ASDLC and good luck! Sh0rtcircuit (Deb)

Response:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I went on LC back in 99, and lost about 25 pounds, and eventually gained it back. Even back then it took about three weeks before weight loss kicked in. I’ve tried half heartedly several times since then, but with no success. About three weeks I started again, this time in earnest. Not only am I really avoiding almost all carbs, but I am running about 2-3 miles, 4 times a week. Nevertheless, the scale seems stuck on 208 (My goal weight would be 180-185), Possible explanations: Too much dairy? I always eat cottage cheese with eggs. Weight lifting? I have been doing pretty heavy lifting in addition to the running. Too much caffeine? Lots of coffee, and lots of diet coke. I eat some nuts (raw almonds) and peanut butter, but really try to keep it under control. I haven’t eaten bread, rice, potatoes or hardly any sugar at all (no deserts at all) in several weeks, and the scale doesn’t budge. What a curse. (I should add that the scale doesn’t budge, I do seem to have lost some in the waist–about an inch I would say).

Hi Pablo, welcome to the group! Without knowing specific amounts, it’s hard to say why you aren’t losing weight. What is your overall calorie intake? Do you keep track of what you eat? Fitday.com is a good way to do this — you might be surprised at what you take in in carbs, protein, fiber, etc. It might be too much or it might be too LITTLE. By KNOWING what you are taking in, you can make the appropriate adjustments, if necessary. Personally, I keep track of what I eat with my own Excel spreadsheet so that I can do it the way *I* want to, but I still get info from Fitday.com. I also downloaded the database and program from the USDA nutritional website to look things up. I weigh most meat and produce and use measuring spoons for the H&H in my coffee. It helps me to keep on track and to be AWARE of what I’m eating. It might be too much for some people to do, but it’s a good idea, at least until you get an idea of your perceptions vs. reality when it comes to various foods and their nutritional values. You might try switching from Diet Coke to Diet Rite Cola — Diet Coke is sweetened with Aspartame, which can cause stalls in some people (not to mention cravings), whereas Diet Rite is sweetened with Splenda (aka sucralose), which does not appear to have the same affect on most people. You might want to cut out the nuts for the time being until you have a better idea of how they might affect your weight loss. Some people more knowledgeable than me about diabetes will probably be along any time now to suggest that you are insulin resistant, which is certainly a possibility. Also, do you snore? If so, sleep deprivation and/or constant interruption of oxygen may have some affect (a regular poster here stalled for 4 years until she was diagnosed and treated for sleep apnea, and only THEN did she start losing). Still, you should be losing SOMETHING. I definitely understand your frustration because my weight loss is quite slow compared to many others. I’ve learned to stay the course, though, because it DOES pay off eventually. I often notice that my body is smaller in places, but the scale stays the same, which seems to be the case with you, too (see my recent post entitled "Saffire’s Halfway Houses For Wayward Fat" . The scale catches up eventually. Also, the less weight you have to lose, the slower it tends to come off. You are not significantly overweight as far as that goes. Are you feeling better, healthwise than you did before you started your recent low-carbing? For ME, that’s even MORE of an incentive to stay the course than losing weight, although I’m certainly delighted with my progress and feeling like I look "normal" again BTW, JC der Koenig will ALSO be along any second (if not sooner) to insult and belittle you and try to get you to give up — ignore him. — Saffire 205/152/125 - 5′1.5" Atkins since 6/14/03 Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

Response:

I don't want to be a jogger anymore

admin — Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

@twister.nyc.rr.com: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Regardless of marathon or 10K I really like (someone is probably gonna I used to do 2×2miles at 6:0n pace with an 800 break between. Then when I felt particularly masochistic a small ladder – 2×400, 2×800, a mile and back down. A 200 break for the 400’s and 400 break for all the others. The danger I find in the shorter time is that people tend to start out way too fast. And frankly they are too easy to gut out. For marathons I liked to do miles. For longer races longer intervals. I was and still am Benji Durdan fan. My eventual training plan was a collage of Durdan, Galloway, Glover and probably a passing grouse.

I find that running at LT pace to be the most enjoyable pace. This seems to release the highest dosage of whatever hormone it is that makes the "runner’s high." Maybe that’s why I don’t like racing anything shorter than 10K. Even 10Ks are a little too painful for me. Most of the races around here are 5Ks. Maybe 95% of the local races are 5Ks. If I find a 10-miler, it’s usually a few hundred miles away. Phil M. — "Pain is temporary: the success it brings can be everlasting." -fortune cookie

Response:

Stop whining. I don’t want to be a troll anymore, but you don’t hear me

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Once again I will preach that improving your pace at lactate threshold is the key since that is the single best predictor for endurance performance. Regardless of marathon or 10K I really like (someone is probably gonna scream): Not unless you try to make me do that workout (-; Seriously, this looks like a pretty demanding workout — it’s basically a broken 10k race (or a little bit longer or shorter depending on speed). How would you fit this into a weeks training ? I typically do 3 speed workouts in harder weeks of training, the LT work is the easiest of the 3. But the above workout would probably be your primary speed workout for the week, right ?

You are a demon with 3 speed workouts a week. Even in my fit, sub 36 min 10K days, I never remember doing 3 speed sessions a week (perhaps why I petered out in the 35:xx range). Depending on the mesocycle one is in, the above workout would be the primary workout, yes. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – An alternative that I like less is something like 8×5min at 10K pace with 1 or 2 min recovery between. The danger I find in the shorter time is that people tend to start out way too fast. This is a potential problem with any LT work though. More than any other training, LT work requires some discipline to use the proper pace. Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

Once again I will preach that improving your pace at lactate threshold is the key since that is the single best predictor for endurance performance. Regardless of marathon or 10K I really like (someone is probably gonna scream):

Not unless you try to make me do that workout (-;

Seriously, this looks like a pretty demanding workout — it’s basically a broken 10k race (or a little bit longer or shorter depending on speed). How would you fit this into a weeks training ? I typically do 3 speed workouts in harder weeks of training, the LT work is the easiest of the 3. But the above workout would probably be your primary speed workout for the week, right ? An alternative that I like less is something like 8×5min at 10K pace with 1 or 2 min recovery between. The danger I find in the shorter time is that people tend to start out way too fast.

This is a potential problem with any LT work though. More than any other training, LT work requires some discipline to use the proper pace. Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

As I expressed on my previous thread, the best I can do in the marathon is 3:38. For my 10K, my PR from about a year ago, is 38:26.

Well, that’s all I need to hear to write you off. Folks who run 10k at 6:11 pace aren’t "stuck" at 8:19 pace for the marathon. Go away.

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I may have come in late on this. Are you serious or busting mecelfraud with the 6:12 being a jog? Anyway, if you can do a 10K in 38:26 and the best you can do for a marathon is 3:38 suggests your marathon training schedule is out to lunch. — Doug Freese "Caveat Lector"

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I may have come in late on this. Are you serious or busting mecelfraud with

the 6:12 being a jog? Got to be busting Macelfraud’s hump. Read what else this guy has posted: (1) "I believe that ‘Improving your time is the whole purpose in the entire world of why I run.’" (2) "what is the fastest way I can aggressively loose weight safely? I’ll try anything. Hot steam baths. Cellophane. Purging. Whatever. I need to do it fast so I can start running again." (3) "I find I’m up to 40 seconds faster on the mile when I have had a productive bowel movement (BM) 1 to 2 hours before. This is a top secret among elites. All the ones I’ve spoken too always take "measures" before a race to make sure they unload, if you know what I mean." Indeed, it wouldn’t take much to convince me that "Grandepatzer" IS Macelfraud.

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If you’re that unhappy with your times I’d suggest suicide. I’ve got Dr Kervorkian’s number someplace if you need a little push.

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@twister.nyc.rr.com: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As I expressed on my previous thread, the best I can do in the marathon is 3:38. For my 10K, my PR from about a year ago, is 38:26. I train alot. About 40-50 mpw, sometimes 60 when a marathon is coming up. But with my 10K pace of about 6:12, I’m just jogging. I may have come in late on this. Are you serious or busting mecelfraud with the 6:12 being a jog? Anyway, if you can do a 10K in 38:26 and the best you can do for a marathon is 3:38 suggests your marathon training schedule is out to lunch.

In many countries outside the USA, running = jogging. I have been to the UK and Europe many times on business, and I hate it when the people there call me a "jogger". Hello, I am a runner.

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As I expressed on my previous thread, the best I can do in the marathon is 3:38. For my 10K, my PR from about a year ago, is 38:26. I train alot. About 40-50 mpw, sometimes 60 when a marathon is coming up. But with my 10K pace of about 6:12, I’m just jogging. I’ve tried 20×400 workouts, 10×800, 5×1 mile, you name it. I can’t get any faster. This is really frustrating because I believe that "Improving your time is the whole purpose in the entire world of why I run." What’s my problem? How do I stop jogging and for once start really running?

I would say that you stopped being a jogger a long time ago. You 10K time indicates that you should be capable of running a marathon faster than that. However, the marathon is unforgiving and so much more can happen to destroy a marathon performance. Make sure you are getting in the long runs for the marathon if that is what you are wanting to do. I like for people to get in at least 3 18-20 milers. More if you can take it. Once again I will preach that improving your pace at lactate threshold is the key since that is the single best predictor for endurance performance. Regardless of marathon or 10K I really like (someone is probably gonna 30 to 60 min continuous effort at the pace you could maintain for one hour. An alternative that I like less is something like 8×5min at 10K pace with 1 or 2 min recovery between. The danger I find in the shorter time is that people tend to start out way too fast.

Response:

Regardless of marathon or 10K I really like (someone is probably gonna

I used to do 2×2miles at 6:0n pace with an 800 break between. Then when I felt particularly masochistic a small ladder – 2×400, 2×800, a mile and back down. A 200 break for the 400’s and 400 break for all the others. The danger I find in the shorter time is that people tend to start out way too fast.

And frankly they are too easy to gut out. For marathons I liked to do miles. For longer races longer intervals. I was and still am Benji Durdan fan. My eventual training plan was a collage of Durdan, Galloway, Glover and probably a passing grouse. — Doug Freese "Caveat Lector"

Response:

Exercise & Knee Pain

admin — Tue, 09 Mar 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Straight from memory, isn’t this a knee cap tracking problem and often attributed to underdevelopment of VMO when compaired to the rest of your leg? See Krista’s website stumptuous.com and you can also try bob’s kneeboard, search and it will pop up. Krista had it for a while and there are usually a half a dozen folks with some type of patella tracking problems on Bob’s at any given time. I remember soccer ball wall squats with feet a little closer than shoulder width apart being a rehab exercise. Personally I would avoid sugery for this one. Dufus Thanks, I knew Krista had a knee issue on her site, but thought it was different. I do want to avoid surgery, And I do want to be able to stay active. Hence, I want a good education on this.

Hells Bells, I got PFS and Chondro confused. Bob’s kneeboard will still work though and the symptoms are similar. Dufus

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Crossposted to ASD and MFW for input. Stats: Female age 32yrs 5′3", 135lbs workout with combo of weights and cardio I’ve been dealing with knee pain for a while now and finally sucked it up and went to the doc. After a 45min wait in the waiting room, another 15 in the exam room, a 10 min consult and doc says: "Chondromalacia" OK, so flash backs to highschool – this is what I had back then. This is what is bothering me know. Treatment: PT, for 4 weeks. Spend lots of time on the stationary bike. If no improvement, off to Othropedic for further treatment. Now, the question is….. What are the suggestions from those in the group? How do I handle workouts? Running/jogging? Biking? Weights? Squats? Lunges or deadlifts? What should and shouldn’t I do at this point. I now have to go spend time researching this to determine my next course of action.

Straight from memory, isn’t this a knee cap tracking problem and often attributed to underdevelopment of VMO when compaired to the rest of your leg? See Krista’s website stumptuous.com and you can also try bob’s kneeboard, search and it will pop up. Krista had it for a while and there are usually a half a dozen folks with some type of patella tracking problems on Bob’s at any given time. I remember soccer ball wall squats with feet a little closer than shoulder width apart being a rehab exercise. Personally I would avoid sugery for this one. Dufus

Response:

I thought they were two different names for the same thing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bob’s kneeboard will still work though and the symptoms are similar. Dufus

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – People who ride a bike much know what I am talking about. To peddle in circles is referring to the practice of making a conciouss effort to not just peddle up and down on the bike cranks. Rather the motion is to use the crank and conciously try to make the crank for follow a circular motion. Takes the strain off the knees somewhat and is good for joint problems. I think I know what you mean. When I bike I will spend time focusing on the full cycle of a peddle. Its not just the "push down" motion on each leg, its the whole cycle, push forward, thru the bottom, then pull back and up thru the top. I know what yo mean now – although it did sound funny before. Riiight. Forcing the femur forward and pulling it rearward, rather than letting momentum from the up and down stroke carry the knee around passively, would be EASIER on the knee. I’m glad that makes complete sense to you.

It’s just like how leg extensions are better for you than squats. But it’s PEDAL, dammit PEDAL! — -Wayne

Response:

Here’s instructions on how to do it….. http://bicycling.about.com/library/weekly/aa010401b.htm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Crossposted to ASD and MFW for input. Stats: Female age 32yrs 5′3", 135lbs workout with combo of weights and cardio I’ve been dealing with knee pain for a while now and finally sucked it up and went to the doc. After a 45min wait in the waiting room, another 15 in the exam room, a 10 min consult and doc says: "Chondromalacia" OK, so flash backs to highschool – this is what I had back then. This is what is bothering me know. Treatment: PT, for 4 weeks. Spend lots of time on the stationary bike. If no improvement, off to Othropedic for further treatment. Now, the question is….. What are the suggestions from those in the group? How do I handle workouts? Running/jogging? Biking? Weights? Squats? Lunges or deadlifts? What should and shouldn’t I do at this point. I now have to go spend time researching this to determine my next course of action. I have chondromalacia as well – for me, the symptoms seem to come and go. You’ll get a lot of advice, much of it conflicting. In fact, you already have! Do leg extensions – Avoid leg extensions. Do squats – don’t. Whatever.

It only seems like conflicting advice to people who oversimplify it. Do leg extensions, concentrating on the top portion of the movement – it’s the bottom part that’s hard on the knees and the top part that strengthens the VM, which helps stabilize the kneecap. Do squats, but make sure you go down as far as you can – reversing direction at the point where there’s the most stress on the knee is bad for the knees, but doing the full ROM will strengthen the knees. Geez, it’s all so complicated.

Response:

I have chondromalacia as well – for me, the symptoms seem to come and go. You’ll get a lot of advice, much of it conflicting. In fact, you already have! Do leg extensions – Avoid leg extensions. Do squats – don’t. Whatever. My take – try to strengthen your leg muscles (particularly the quads) and stretch them (particularly the hamstrings) as much as you can. the first time you try an exercise, be careful – what helps one person’s knee can aggrevate another – and if it hurts, don’t do that one. But do as much as you can – the more you use it without hurting it, the better it will stay. Oh – and a minor thing – if you’re doing machine weights, do each leg separately. that way, you’re sure you’re giving each leg the amount of weight it can handle (and you’re also ensuring the good leg isn’t overcompensating for the bad one) …megan

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The deep knne bend has helped my knee tremendously. Make sure your knee is warmed up though. If you use a bicycle be sure to peddle in circles. peddle in circles – as opposed to what – squares or triangles? :-) Just don’t pedal in pentagrams. It draws the wrong crowd. Mormons?

Joint Chiefs?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hells Bells, I got PFS and Chondro confused. I thought they were two different names for the same thing. They do appear to be the same thing. And to throw an even more generic term, I’m finding some call it "Runner’s Knee." From what I am gathering, it starts with PFS, and if left untreated can lead to Chondro (which is the softening and wearing away of cartlidge). WebMD catagorizes is at "Patellar Tracking Disorder" that when left untreated can lead to Chondromalacia or Osteoarthritis of the knee. And my dog has "patellar luxation". As far as I can tell, it all means pretty much the same thing – the kneecap doesn’t track the way it’s supposed to.

ANOTHER dog with knee problems? Are your dogs doing a lousy job of playing the numbers and getting in debt to the wrong people? What are you doing for PT, other than the stationary bike? And have you tried taking glucosamine? Also, how deep do you squat? My knees seem to prefer deep squats (although my ankle doesn’t, but that’s being taken care of very soon).

hGH insoles?

Response:

I think you need to talk to your physcial therapist and see what they recommend!!! They will be able to better evaluate what your limitations will be so you don’t keep re-injuring your knee. Do you have an appointment set up? Also, avoid Health South! They will rip you off and not help.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now, the question is….. What are the suggestions from those in the group? How do I handle workouts? Running/jogging? Biking? Weights? Squats? Lunges or deadlifts? What should and shouldn’t I do at this point. I now have to go spend time researching this to determine my next course of action.

Response:

If you use a bicycle be sure to peddle in circles. ! ? !! ?? !?!?!? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahaha… MINE! David — "If you use a bicycle be sure to peddle in circles."—"Oldman"

That’s a beauty! ps

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The deep knne bend has helped my knee tremendously. Make sure your knee is warmed up though. If you use a bicycle be sure to peddle in circles. peddle in circles – as opposed to what – squares or triangles? People who ride a bike much know what I am talking about. To peddle in circles is referring to the practice of making a conciouss effort to not just peddle up and down on the bike cranks. Rather the motion is to use the crank and conciously try to make the crank for follow a circular motion. Takes the strain off the knees somewhat and is good for joint problems. I think I know what you mean. When I bike I will spend time focusing on the full cycle of a peddle. Its not just the "push down" motion on each leg, its the whole cycle, push forward, thru the bottom, then pull back and up thru the top. I know what yo mean now – although it did sound funny before.

Riiight. Forcing the femur forward and pulling it rearward, rather than letting momentum from the up and down stroke carry the knee around passively, would be EASIER on the knee. I’m glad that makes complete sense to you. David — "If you use a bicycle be sure to peddle in circles."—"Oldman"

Response:

I think I know what you mean. When I bike I will spend time focusing on the full cycle of a peddle. Its not just the "push down" motion on each leg, its the whole cycle, push forward, thru the bottom, then pull back and up thru the top. I know what yo mean now – although it did sound funny before.

Response:

Here are the things I’d recommend, based on my experience. (I should note that I’m not a physician and that YMMV and all that stuff.)

Thanks for the input Chris! * If you’re not already doing it, start taking glucosamine/ chondroitin.

I’ve got it, just don’t take it religously. I’m bad about taking drugs/pills. I just don’t remember to take them daily… (I posted about this a few months back). But I’m going to give it a try. I know (from what I’ve read) that it takes a good 2 months of regular use of G/C before the affects take hold. * Do leg extensions if they don’t feel like they aggravate your knees. I find them therapeutic when my knees flare up. I don’t bother with them unless I’m having knee pain. * Do deep (below parallel — ass to grass) squats. If you don’t know how now, learn this. Start with no added weight if you’re new to it. Keep doing them after your knees recover, to help prevent future problems.

I can do ass to the grass, but I always get the conflicting info when I do them. So many people are against the A2G and say to only go parallel. Its weird. You read here and mfw and its all about how low you can go, yet you go to the gym and people say otherwise. I started using the leg press machine instead, as it was easier on my shoulders. * Do hamstring, quad, and achilles tendon stretches — religiously, twice a day.

Besides the standard (quad stretch by pulling leg behind and calf stretch by doing a lunge, do you have some other good stretches you could recomend? * Avoid impact exercises like running or lots of walking, particularly on pavement. Avoid stairs when possible. Avoid jumping (well, at least the landing part ).

stairs is not a problem around here. single story house, single store work place. My only issue now, besides the fact that I like to walk/jog with the dog, is the walking I do at work. we are building a new office 2 building away (about 1/4 mile) and I walk between the 2 buildings multiple times a day (in dress shoes). I now have my sneakers at work, and will start wearing them for the longer walks. * Don’t do the stationary bike if it hurts. You might find an elliptical trainer more comfortable. Water exercise is also great for someone whose knees hurt. If a repetitive exercise is painful, it’s not a good choice for you.

Actually – it was using the elliptical while on vacation that helped to start this whole thing. I can do the bike now – but even this weekend I tried out an elliptical at the store and it hurt just to try to do a couple circles. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – * Ice your knees if they’re sore. * For always — not just when your knees are bothering you — avoid twisting your leg with your foot planted on the ground. Good luck! Chris

Response:

Satan worshipers.

Response:

I had a very serious problem with chondromalacia several years ago. I’m now generally pain-free, but I still get little flare-ups of it now and then. Here are the things I’d recommend, based on my experience. (I should note that I’m not a physician and that YMMV and all that stuff.) * If you’re not already doing it, start taking glucosamine/ chondroitin. * Do leg extensions if they don’t feel like they aggravate your knees. I find them therapeutic when my knees flare up. I don’t bother with them unless I’m having knee pain. * Do deep (below parallel — ass to grass) squats. If you don’t know how now, learn this. Start with no added weight if you’re new to it. Keep doing them after your knees recover, to help prevent future problems. * Do hamstring, quad, and achilles tendon stretches — religiously, twice a day. * Avoid impact exercises like running or lots of walking, particularly on pavement. Avoid stairs when possible. Avoid jumping (well, at least the landing part ). * Don’t do the stationary bike if it hurts. You might find an elliptical trainer more comfortable. Water exercise is also great for someone whose knees hurt. If a repetitive exercise is painful, it’s not a good choice for you. * Ice your knees if they’re sore. * For always — not just when your knees are bothering you — avoid twisting your leg with your foot planted on the ground. Good luck! Chris

Response:

The deep knne bend has helped my knee tremendously. Make sure your knee is warmed up though. If you use a bicycle be sure to peddle in circles. peddle in circles – as opposed to what – squares or triangles? :-)

People who ride a bike much know what I am talking about. To peddle in circles is referring to the practice of making a conciouss effort to not just peddle up and down on the bike cranks. Rather the motion is to use the crank and conciously try to make the crank for follow a circular motion. Takes the strain off the knees somewhat and is good for joint problems.

Response:

Mormons? Proton Soup

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Just don’t pedal in pentagrams. It draws the wrong crowd.

Response:

If you use a bicycle be sure to peddle in circles.

! ? !! ?? !?!?!? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahaha… MINE! David — "If you use a bicycle be sure to peddle in circles."—"Oldman"

Response:

The deep knne bend has helped my knee tremendously. Make sure your knee is warmed up though. If you use a bicycle be sure to peddle in circles.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But, I’m not a doc… so what do I know. I just want to go back to pain free exercise. What are you doing for PT, other than the stationary bike? And have you tried taking glucosamine? Also, how deep do you squat? My knees seem to prefer deep squats (although my ankle doesn’t, but that’s being taken care of very soon). I haven’t started PT yet. I just saw the doc this am about this. I’ve got the script for PT, and now have that wonderful choice of finding a PT to go to. I’ve just switched insurances, and now have to deal with an HMO, so its a matter of looking up a list of local PT’s and calling around to see who is close by, convienence and will cause the least disruption on my work.

Ahh. Good luck with that. HMOs suck. The only thing the doc said was stationary bike. I asked if my recumbent is ok, or what about cycling around town (I live in a low lying area, no hills to deal with). If all I have to do is ride a stationary bike 3 x a week for 4 weeks – I can do that at home. But if the goal is to build up those muscles around the knee, I’m not sure how the stationary bike will work, as biking is somehting I do regularly and I’ve got the recumbent bike in the back bedroom for indoor activities.

I don’t see how that would help either, if you’ve been doing it regularly already and are still having problems. What I’ve been doing to strengthen/improve recruitment of the VM is leg extensions, with a hold and squeeze at the top. Some people have had success with step-ups. Here’s some good stuff on those, from Elzi’s site. http://www.moleculegirl.com/Stepups.htm You might want to discuss those options with the PT. As for squats, I can do both, either deep (but not as much weight) or heavier but only to vertical. Lately though, I’ve been using the leg press machine instead of squats.

The deep squats are better for your knees, if you’re going to squat at all. I’m not sure if the leg presses do anything for the knees either way.

Response:

And my dog has "patellar luxation". As far as I can tell, it all means pretty much the same thing – the kneecap doesn’t track the way it’s supposed to. I’m not sure if I understand how a doc can diagnos Chondro with just some simple pushing/pulling on the leg to rule out ligament or muscle problems and then say "knee cap tracking problem" = Chondromalacia.

I think they can tell if the knee isn’t tracking right. One of the tests my chiropractor did on me to confirm that it was chondromalacia was to hold the kneecap and have me contract my quads. If that hurts (which it did) they diagnose chondromalacia patella. (I just googled it; it’s called "Clarke’s sign".) But, I’m not a doc… so what do I know. I just want to go back to pain free exercise.

What are you doing for PT, other than the stationary bike? And have you tried taking glucosamine? Also, how deep do you squat? My knees seem to prefer deep squats (although my ankle doesn’t, but that’s being taken care of very soon).

Response:

I’ve got it, just don’t take it religously. I’m bad about taking drugs/pills. I just don’t remember to take them daily… (I posted about this a few months back).

I know what you mean. I don’t always manage to take my pills either . I can do ass to the grass, but I always get the conflicting info when I do them. So many people are against the A2G and say to only go parallel. Its weird. You read here and mfw and its all about how low you can go, yet you go to the gym and people say otherwise.

Ignore the people in the gym. The halfway position is very hard on the knee. And the form one usually uses when squatting this way also puts more strain on the knee. A2G is easier on the knees and helps build quad strength, which you need to keep the knee alignment. I started using the leg press machine instead, as it was easier on my shoulders.

Nothing wrong with that, as long as it doesn’t hurt your knees. Don’t be afraid to go up in weight, though. Leg press done with an easy weight isn’t very useful for adding strength. * Do hamstring, quad, and achilles tendon stretches — religiously, twice a day. Besides the standard (quad stretch by pulling leg behind and calf stretch by doing a lunge, do you have some other good stretches you could recomend?

Those are definitely the standards. For the hamstrings, sit with legs outstretched in front of you in a v, and reach toward toes on one side and then the other. Or stand and put one foot up on a counter and stretch toward it. I also like the exercise where you sit, draw up your legs, put the soles of your feet together, and gently press your knees down to the sides. stairs is not a problem around here. single story house, single store work place. My only issue now, besides the fact that I like to walk/jog with the dog, is the walking I do at work. we are building a new office 2 building away (about 1/4 mile) and I walk between the 2 buildings multiple times a day (in dress shoes). I now have my sneakers at work, and will start wearing them for the longer walks.

Make sure your sneakers are good ones, and not too old or worn. You might want to try some kind of insert for added support. I like Superfeet inserts, and New Balance shoes. Actually – it was using the elliptical while on vacation that helped to start this whole thing. I can do the bike now – but even this weekend I tried out an elliptical at the store and it hurt just to try to do a couple circles.

Well then I’d definitely stay away from ellipticals. If an exercise hurts your knees, this is not an example of "good pain". Don’t do it. Chris

Response:

Riiight. Forcing the femur forward and pulling it rearward, rather than letting momentum from the up and down stroke carry the knee around passively, would be EASIER on the knee. I’m glad that makes complete sense to you. It’s just like how leg extensions are better for you than squats. But it’s PEDAL, dammit PEDAL!

I’m glad someone took the time to correct that. It was really bugging me. To ‘peddle’ is to sell stuff.

Response:

The Low

admin — Mon, 01 Mar 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

"Steve Spry" <23…@unavailable.com> wrote in message

news:vaP0c.6975$qt1.6082@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com… > "franco@grex" wrote in message > news:c207p7$1n5fd3$1@ID-152646.news.uni-berlin.de… > > >2) start doing cardiovascular training (running, jogging, cycling) > > > a. combined with weight training > > > b. eat a good diet > > > c. go out to have fun > > > d. develop some hobbies > > I am doing #2 suggestion. Except for the good diet (well my diet is not > that > > bad, I never eat junk food). > I eat french fries a lot, so you don’t need a perfect diet.

Also I mentioned that when I don’t get enough protein in my diet, I get headaches and feel sluggish and slow. Since I don’t lift weights much anymore, I take between 70-100 grams of protein a day. When I take 40 grams or less, I feel pretty useless. I’ve been focusing in dancing a lot. I do that and cardiovascular training and occasional light weight training. The brand I use is BioChem’s Ultimate Low Carb Whey (Caramel Flavor). You can get it at Whole Foods Market or order it online. I use it as a supplement to getting protein from meats in my diet. Also meditation is good for inner balance. Laife

Response:

"franco@grex" wrote in message

news:c207p7$1n5fd3$1@ID-152646.news.uni-berlin.de… > >2) start doing cardiovascular training (running, jogging, cycling) > > a. combined with weight training > > b. eat a good diet > > c. go out to have fun > > d. develop some hobbies > I am doing #2 suggestion. Except for the good diet (well my diet is not that > bad, I never eat junk food).

I eat french fries a lot, so you don’t need a perfect diet. > c) is very rare

That’s the main problem. You get all your emotional satisfaction from the internet so no longer have a need to go out. If you go out, all your energy is depleted on the internet and you are just left in dead zombie state. hee hee > and d) is internet addiction 24/7

I like this group so I don’t consider it a problem. However, if you consider it a problem, you need to develop DISCIPLINE and limit addictions to 2 hours a day and at a certain time only. That way it is controlled. Then you can do other things with your life. Laife

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Steve Spry <23…@unavailable.com> wrote… >"franco@grex" wrote in message >news:c2007f$1n7ud0$1@ID-152646.news.uni-berlin.de… >> I predicted it! It’s almost always like that: after the high comes the >low. >> Right now I feel like I’m on the comedown of a meth binge, quite >miserable. It >> was so great that I had such a good time with her last week. It was the >alcohol >> that loosened me up. I was euphoric, I was happy and she responded to my >> happiness. But I let my bubble grow too big over the weekend (fantasizing >and >> daydreaming) that it hurts bad now that it’s burst. Today I saw her >briefly, >> but since I was my boring, depressing sober self I didn’t approach her >though >> she seemed like she was expecting me to. Now it sort of lost momentum and >we’re >> back to square one. >This is justy your imagination. >> I hate being myself and I cannot be drunk to alter my >> consciousness during the daytime (I do it on the rare occasions when I go >out, >> like last week). I want to get it over with and tell her about my true >feelings >> and find out how she really feels about me, how she’ll react. I can’t find >the >> courage to do so. >I made a post a while back about this. If you are down a lot (depression), >either you can take >1) anti-depressant medication >OR >2) start doing cardiovascular training (running, jogging, cycling) > a. combined with weight training > b. eat a good diet > c. go out to have fun > d. develop some hobbies

I am doing #2 suggestion. Except for the good diet (well my diet is not that bad, I never eat junk food). c) is very rare and d) is internet addiction 24/7 almost.

Response:

"franco@grex" wrote in message

news:c2007f$1n7ud0$1@ID-152646.news.uni-berlin.de… > I predicted it! It’s almost always like that: after the high comes the

low. > Right now I feel like I’m on the comedown of a meth binge, quite miserable. It > was so great that I had such a good time with her last week. It was the alcohol > that loosened me up. I was euphoric, I was happy and she responded to my > happiness. But I let my bubble grow too big over the weekend (fantasizing and > daydreaming) that it hurts bad now that it’s burst. Today I saw her briefly, > but since I was my boring, depressing sober self I didn’t approach her though > she seemed like she was expecting me to. Now it sort of lost momentum and we’re > back to square one.

This is justy your imagination. > I hate being myself and I cannot be drunk to alter my > consciousness during the daytime (I do it on the rare occasions when I go out, > like last week). I want to get it over with and tell her about my true feelings > and find out how she really feels about me, how she’ll react. I can’t find the > courage to do so.

I made a post a while back about this. If you are down a lot (depression), either you can take 1) anti-depressant medication OR 2) start doing cardiovascular training (running, jogging, cycling) a. combined with weight training b. eat a good diet c. go out to have fun d. develop some hobbies Search my earlier posts from last year for details. Laife

Response:

I predicted it! It’s almost always like that: after the high comes the low. Right now I feel like I’m on the comedown of a meth binge, quite miserable. It was so great that I had such a good time with her last week. It was the alcohol that loosened me up. I was euphoric, I was happy and she responded to my happiness. But I let my bubble grow too big over the weekend (fantasizing and daydreaming) that it hurts bad now that it’s burst. Today I saw her briefly, but since I was my boring, depressing sober self I didn’t approach her though she seemed like she was expecting me to. Now it sort of lost momentum and we’re back to square one. I hate being myself and I cannot be drunk to alter my consciousness during the daytime (I do it on the rare occasions when I go out, like last week). I want to get it over with and tell her about my true feelings and find out how she really feels about me, how she’ll react. I can’t find the courage to do so.

Response:

How Often Should One Run To Stay Fit?

admin — Wed, 14 May 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I like the guide of "if you can do it 2 days in a row, it is easy". That is a simple way of explaining it to people.

So what about people who do a couple of LSDs back to back. Those are not easy and if you don’t rest very well after that, I take it the risk of injury is quite considerable. cheers, nina

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It might "start to flatten out" but a survey of runners running about 40mpw still showed improve benefits. I could not find the link to the study in my URL list… If someone has it, I would like to add it back. It was the annual survey of runners and health or something like that. OK, Sam, here’s the beef: Arch Intern Med 1997 Jan 27;157(2):191-8 Williams PT Life Sciences Division, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, Berkeley, Calif, USA This is part of series of research done by Dr. Paul Williams at LBL, called the "National Runners Health Survey" (still going on, I think). There are a number of very interesting reports, (some in the archive) which can be accessed by going to the Lawrence Berkeley web site (www.lbl.gov) and using their search for : "national runners health survey" OR "Paul Williams" Here is one of these that I have posted in the past: http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/fast-runners.html Lyndon "Speed Kills…It kills those that don’t have it!" –US Olympic Track Coach Brooks Johnson

Lyndon, you work on the study? cool! Anyone else here a participant in this study? (I am.) — Ed Prochak running http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/ netiquette http://www.psg.com/emily.html — "Two roads diverged in a wood and I I took the one less travelled by and that has made all the difference." robert frost

Response:

It might "start to flatten out" but a survey of runners running about 40mpw still showed improve benefits. I could not find the link to the study in my URL list… If someone has it, I would like to add it back. It was the annual survey of runners and health or something like that.

It was probably something written by Paul Williams. This really isn’t one of my areas but: I found a reference to the February, 1997 New England Journal of Medicine. Weekly mileage and heart attck risks http://healthresearch.lbl.gov/men.html and here’s the women’s http://healthresearch.lbl.gov/women.html Chapter 1 in The Complete Book of Running for Women by Claire Kowalchik has a number of different health benefits of higher mileage. (I thought the title was Ruuning AFTER Women.) More mileage helps HDL and faster running helps lower systolic blood pressure http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/fast-runners.html LDL isn’t affected by higher mileage for BOFs http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/seniors-runners.html 1995 US Govt study about guidelines underestimating the benefits of running for women http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/running-women-study.html More than 30 miles helps prevent heart attack http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0072.htm (1997 chat session with Paul Williams http://www.omnimag.com/archives/chats/bm101597.html ) Yet another Paul Williams-based article http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0072.htm Brief overview of studies about exercise and cholesterol (with references) http://www.drlenkravitz.com/Articles/cholesterolNEW.html Increased mileage doesn’t necessarily cause death (at least not right away) http://www.active.com/story.cfm?story_id=8878 This one doesn’t exactly address the question but seemed related http://www.nwrunner.com/features/11-02_sportsmed.html 1996 lit review of running injuries including higher mileage (Caution: PDF file) http://www.general.monash.edu.au/muarc/rptsum/muarc104.pdf Ultrarunning advice including health http://www.movinshoes.com/surf/shawn4.html BOF testosterone production between couch pots and 40+ mpw runners (very suspicious) http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/hormones/ageing.htm Gait retraining to prevent injuries with higher mileage http://www.viconstandard.org/archives/2002no1/gait_retraining_in_runn… etraininginrunners_frameless.htm And the alternative – running/jogging can be hazardous to your health http://www.barmethod.com/health_column.htm http://www.acofp.org/member_publications/sports_0602b.html The rec.running report archives may be found at http://kinder.cis.unf.edu/rec.running

Response:

OK, Sam, here’s the beef: Arch Intern Med 1997 Jan 27;157(2):191-8 Williams PT Life Sciences Division, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, Berkeley, Calif, USA This is part of series of research done by Dr. Paul Williams at LBL, called the "National Runners Health Survey" (still going on, I think). There are a number of very interesting reports, (some in the archive) which can be accessed by going to the Lawrence Berkeley web site (www.lbl.gov) and using their search for : "national runners health survey" OR "Paul Williams" Here is one of these that I have posted in the past: http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/fast-runners.html Lyndon "Speed Kills…It kills those that don’t have it!" –US Olympic Track Coach Brooks Johnson

Response:

I like the guide of "if you can do it 2 days in a row, it is easy". That is a simple way of explaining it to people.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry if this has been covered. I usually run about 3 miles 3 days per week. I alternate my running days with rest days because I was told a long time ago by a fitness instructor that it was important to do it that way for general cardiovascular reasons. However, in perusing this group I see many are running up to 5 days a week without rest days in between. Is my information dated? Is it okay for me to run my 3 miles Monday through Friday? (I have no health issues.) To amplify and maybe modify some of what Sam and Lyndon said … Way back when, when you were getting started, doing your 3 mile run was a hard day. After a hard day, you do need a recovery or at least an easy day. For a beginner, recovery almost certainly means no running. But, apparently, you’ve been doing your 3 miles 3 days a week for some time now and it is a comfortable level. (Right?). In that case (or when that does become the case) a 3 mile run is no longer a hard day, it’s an easy day. You can follow an easy day with another easy day. Then put in a rest/recovery day. In other words, more days will be ok. Just, you can’t increase the mileage too fast. Sam gave some good description on how to increase days. Since ‘hard day’ and ‘easy day’ are very person-dependant, and dependant on training level even for a given person, here’s my definition of ‘hard’ vs. ‘easy’ days: * From a status of being healthy and rested/recovered, if you can do the workout comfortably on two consecutive days, it is an easy workout. If you can’t, it is a hard workout and should be followed by an easy or recovery day. in other words, my relaxed 85-ish minute run on Sunday is, for my current training level, hard. I couldn’t have readily done another the next day. On the other hand, later on in my preparation and for quite a few people around here right now, a relaxed 85 minutes will be an easy day. — Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur

activities notes and links. Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New

Sciences

Response:

Fit means being able to do something with minimal effort. If you are run 10Ks or marathons, you need more training. Otherwise it is important to cover a minimum of ten miles, and health results start flattening out around 20 miles.

Response:

Sorry if this has been covered. I usually run about 3 miles 3 days per week. I alternate my running days with rest days because I was told a long time ago by a fitness instructor that it was important to do it that way for general cardiovascular reasons. However, in perusing this group I see many are running up to 5 days a week without rest days in between. Is my information dated? Is it okay for me to run my 3 miles Monday through Friday? (I have no health issues.)

To amplify and maybe modify some of what Sam and Lyndon said … Way back when, when you were getting started, doing your 3 mile run was a hard day. After a hard day, you do need a recovery or at least an easy day. For a beginner, recovery almost certainly means no running. But, apparently, you’ve been doing your 3 miles 3 days a week for some time now and it is a comfortable level. (Right?). In that case (or when that does become the case) a 3 mile run is no longer a hard day, it’s an easy day. You can follow an easy day with another easy day. Then put in a rest/recovery day. In other words, more days will be ok. Just, you can’t increase the mileage too fast. Sam gave some good description on how to increase days. Since ‘hard day’ and ‘easy day’ are very person-dependant, and dependant on training level even for a given person, here’s my definition of ‘hard’ vs. ‘easy’ days: * From a status of being healthy and rested/recovered, if you can do the workout comfortably on two consecutive days, it is an easy workout. If you can’t, it is a hard workout and should be followed by an easy or recovery day. in other words, my relaxed 85-ish minute run on Sunday is, for my current training level, hard. I couldn’t have readily done another the next day. On the other hand, later on in my preparation and for quite a few people around here right now, a relaxed 85 minutes will be an easy day. — Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links. Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

Response:

I run five days in a row before taking two days off for a total of about 25 miles a week. I’ve been running for almost 2 years with no injuries or health problems. I find it best to vary running distances and routes to keep it interesting. bds – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, Sorry if this has been covered. I usually run about 3 miles 3 days per week. I alternate my running days with rest days because I was told a long time ago by a fitness instructor that it was important to do it that way for general cardiovascular reasons. However, in perusing this group I see many are running up to 5 days a week without rest days in between. Is my information dated? Is it okay for me to run my 3 miles Monday through Friday? (I have no health issues.) Thanks. Jay

Response:

Hi all, Sorry if this has been covered. I usually run about 3 miles 3 days per week. I alternate my running days with rest days because I was told a long time ago by a fitness instructor that it was important to do it that way for general cardiovascular reasons. However, in perusing this group I see many are running up to 5 days a week without rest days in between. Is my information dated? Is it okay for me to run my 3 miles Monday through Friday? (I have no health issues.)

2 days per week keeps your current fitness level or improves it slowly. 3 days per week is best tradeoff between low risk of injury and ability to get fitter (increase distance one of your runs, it is great being able to run 60-75 minutes). I was running no more than every 2nd day when I trained for my first marathon, and usually took 2 days off after my longer than half marathon training runs every 2nd weekend. — Writing to the above address will blacklist your mailserver. Hvis du skriver til ovenst

Possible stress fracture

admin — Fri, 03 Jan 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I have been running/triing for 12+ years and have had just about any injury out there, except a stress fracture. Last Saturday(Dec 28th) I was out for an easy 10 mile run when at mile 9 I felt a ‘pop’ in my upper groin area. Thinking I pulled something I stopped and stretched for 5 minutes but was unable to run another step without severe pain. I walked to final mile home with only mild discomfort. There was no warning of any sort and I was running hard or anything out of the ordinary. I stretched again when I got home and had no pain. 2 days later I tried a couple of jogging steps and had to stop immediately because of the pain. Same today, 7 days later. The only way to replicate the pain is running/jogging. Not stretching, pressing it, etc. I can’t get into a doctor until middle of next week. Does anyone out there with experience with stress fractures think this sounds familiar? If not, what else do you think this might be? I’m very confused as I’m in a down training period and only running 20-30 miles a week as opposed to a normal 35-45 and would think I wasn’t in danger of an over-training injury like this. Thanks for any and all advice. Thanks. Digger

Response:

Does anyone out there with experience with stress fractures think this sounds familiar?

Doesn’t sound like a stress fracture to me. I had one in my shin and (at least in my case) there was nothing sudden or severe about it. Came on slow and was more of a dull pain. I did a marathon on it before I had it properly diagnosed. James

Response:

Does anyone out there with experience with stress fractures think this sounds familiar?

Not a stress fracture. Bill R.

Response:

| I was out for |an easy 10 mile run when at mile 9 I felt a ‘pop’ in my upper groin area. At the worst, pelvic fracture. At the best, musculotendon strain.

Response:

I’m no doctor, but I think this guy’s probably right. I thought a hernia, but the "pop" sounds like bone.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | I was out for |an easy 10 mile run when at mile 9 I felt a ‘pop’ in my upper groin area. At the worst, pelvic fracture. At the best, musculotendon strain.

Response:

Doesn’t sound like a stress fracture, and these are very rare in the upper leg/pelvic area. Sometimes muscle pulls and tears "feel" like they are popping or making a sound even though bones are not involved. I pulled a hamstring in very cold weather playing football, and the "snap" was so palpable I thought I heard a gun shot fired at the back of my leg. Most running stress fractures involve the lower leg and their effects come on slowly, often mistaken for tendonitis or other problems. You should definitely cut back on running and/or take every other day off. You may be able to replace this time with swimming (very easy) or cycling (relatively easy). If you have pain doing these things as well, then you may have a very serious problem and should seek medical diagnosis. If you just can’t run at all without pain, take several days off and cross-train. If you can’t even cross-train, you have a serious problem (yes, I’m repeating myself on purpose). Also backtrack in your training and check to see if you have been: 1. Increasing run mileage sharply, more than 10% per week. 2. Recently ran a marathon or a race much longer than you usually do. 3. Changed running surfaces, such as from trails to pavement, or different inclines of pavement. 4. Changed nutrition or overall body weight, gained pounds, lost a LOT of pounds, etc. 5. Took just about any form of medication. 6. Stopped taking nutritional supplements like vitamins, minerals, or other micronutrients, or added new ones. 7. Changed running technique, or style or equipment in other sports (bike fit, swim drills, etc.) Sometimes a problem in one area can originate with a change in an opposing area in another part of the body. A chiropractor or kinesiologist can really help you hear. And of course a standard MD who has RUNNING EXPERIENCE can also help. Unfortunately, non-running doctors can easily become confused and wrongly diagnose these kinds of problems with statements like, "This is very serious. You need to give up running, maybe forever," or "you need major surgery." If you are master’s athlete, it may be true you need to spend more time on the bike and in the pool and less on the run, but this should not necessarily hurt your triathlon performance. As for medical diagnosis, an X-ray or even better, an ultrasound, should show conclusive whether there is indeed a fracture–end of mystery. That out of the way, then you can move on to figuring out what it really is.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been running/triing for 12+ years and have had just about any injury out there, except a stress fracture. Last Saturday(Dec 28th) I was out for an easy 10 mile run when at mile 9 I felt a ‘pop’ in my upper groin area. Thinking I pulled something I stopped and stretched for 5 minutes but was unable to run another step without severe pain. I walked to final mile home with only mild discomfort. There was no warning of any sort and I was running hard or anything out of the ordinary. I stretched again when I got home and had no pain. 2 days later I tried a couple of jogging steps and had to stop immediately because of the pain. Same today, 7 days later. The only way to replicate the pain is running/jogging. Not stretching, pressing it, etc. I can’t get into a doctor until middle of next week. Does anyone out there with experience with stress fractures think this sounds familiar? If not, what else do you think this might be? I’m very confused as I’m in a down training period and only running 20-30 miles a week as opposed to a normal 35-45 and would think I wasn’t in danger of an over-training injury like this. Thanks for any and all advice. Thanks. Digger

Response:

That strike by Virginai doctors is not over insurance, it’s over fear that their jobs will be lost to the internet doctors. Ben – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m no doctor, but I think this guy’s probably right. I thought a hernia, but the "pop" sounds like bone. | I was out for |an easy 10 mile run when at mile 9 I felt a ‘pop’ in my upper groin area. At the worst, pelvic fracture. At the best, musculotendon strain.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been running/triing for 12+ years and have had just about any injury out there, except a stress fracture. Last Saturday(Dec 28th) I was out for an easy 10 mile run when at mile 9 I felt a ‘pop’ in my upper groin area. Thinking I pulled something I stopped and stretched for 5 minutes but was unable to run another step without severe pain. I walked to final mile home with only mild discomfort. There was no warning of any sort and I was running hard or anything out of the ordinary. I stretched again when I got home and had no pain. 2 days later I tried a couple of jogging steps and had to stop immediately because of the pain. Same today, 7 days later. The only way to replicate the pain is running/jogging. Not stretching, pressing it, etc. I can’t get into a doctor until middle of next week. Does anyone out there with experience with stress fractures think this sounds familiar? If not, what else do you think this might be? I’m very confused as I’m in a down training period and only running 20-30 miles a week as opposed to a normal 35-45 and would think I wasn’t in danger of an over-training injury like this. Thanks for any and all advice. Thanks. Digger

Sounds like a common groin pull. You can’t stretch your way out of it, but you might have caused it by stretching. Deep lunges can bring it on. Perhaps you did this stretch before the easy run.

Response:

I’ve seen people do amazing things in marathons. Saw a guy do Chicago on crutches, tell me he wasn’t in pain? Pain is a normal part of a marathon for many.

He wasn’t in pain because there was obviously something wrong with his brain, and pain is perceived in the brain. Ben

Response:

No, Digger’s post, the originator of the thread. One person said they had three stress fractures in reply, and I’ll bet he did NOT do a marathon. What you had DOES sound like a stress fracture, something that feels worse and worse, a sharper pain as the long run proceeds. The "normal" pain of a marathon: leg soreness, glycogen depletion, and cardiovascular fatigue are NOT the same thing as sharp, piercing pain in a localized area. I assume I am going to feel the former if I run a fast marathon, if I feel the latter I know something is wrong and I will pull up to walk or at least run slower. If I know I feel that way BEFORE the marathon, I won’t attempt it. Fortunately, even in a long training run, I have only had to walk back home once in five years of running, and that was my first year when I did not know how to listen to my body as well, and I weighted 20 pounds more than I should. Now I have "bonked" or overpaced in a long marathon (standalone and ironman) a couple of times, and though this is no fun, somewhat painful and not recommended, it is not injury and merely causes walking or dramatic slowing of pace. In fact, these occurences were when I was in prime fitness, not at all injured, and was just plain overconfident about going heart-rate goals and thinking I could get away with it. Mostly, it’s the pain of disappointment and not being able to go fast no matter how much pain you can endure, which in some ways feels worse than sharp soreness–an emotional let down, a bruising of the ego–yet highly educational since you learn not to repeat the same mistakes in future races. Of course, some people will try to overcome any kind of pain to finish a race, especially if they are inexperienced and they have "put everything" into that one race. I can understand someone doing something like that to finish Kona for the first time, or maybe their first marathon. But I’ve done enough Ironmans and Marathons not to let any one of them freak me out. The best bet is to avoid the race altogether if you think it’s likely you are unprepared or unduly injured. Interestingly enough, I do not see people do the "kamikaze act" of racing while injured as one sees with American Football, martial arts, boxing, etc. Most of us are too intelligent, and the culture of endurance sports doesn’t breed "hurtfulness" for its own sake toward self or others. People do inadvertently get struck down by dehydration, bonking, cramps–sometimes dangerously so–but this is not deliberate "pain mongering," just a kind of forgetfullness in the long struggle about what’s going on with their bodies.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – With all due respect to other people’s problems related on this thread, I don’t see how you could finish a marathon comfortably with a true stress fracture. I don’t know if you are refering to my post but I never said I did the marathon in comfort. I was on a PR pace up until about 18 and had to walk the last 6. Still did a 4:10 even with the walking though. I did not have the problem diagnosed as a stress fracture until after the marathon. They usually get worse and worse for longer distances over an hour. Most people would not even attempt a marathon with that kind of pain. I’ve seen people do amazing things in marathons. Saw a guy do Chicago on crutches, tell me he wasn’t in pain? Pain is a normal part of a marathon for many.

Response:

With all due respect to other people’s problems related on this thread, I don’t see how you could finish a marathon comfortably with a true stress fracture.

I don’t know if you are refering to my post but I never said I did the marathon in comfort. I was on a PR pace up until about 18 and had to walk the last 6. Still did a 4:10 even with the walking though. I did not have the problem diagnosed as a stress fracture until after the marathon. They usually get worse and worse for longer distances over an hour. Most people would not even attempt a marathon with that kind of

pain. I’ve seen people do amazing things in marathons. Saw a guy do Chicago on crutches, tell me he wasn’t in pain? Pain is a normal part of a marathon for many.

Response:

With all due respect to other people’s problems related on this thread, I don’t see how you could finish a marathon comfortably with a true stress fracture. They usually get worse and worse for longer distances over an hour. Most people would not even attempt a marathon with that kind of pain. Still, you should be careful and stick with a higher percentage of cross-training as the problem heals. Check your shoes and other orthopedic factors. Don’t frustrate yourself by getting mostly healed, then having it come back again. Find out the true cause and prevent its recurrence. This is never 100%, either the diagnosis or the prognosis for prevention, but you can become sure enough to feel confident. Running is not as unpredictable as most of the other problems of life.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excellent promo for the physiotherapist (physical therapist)! Digger, I would go see an orthopedist (MD) and let him evaluate you. With the "pop" you wanna make sure that your groin muscle (if this is the culprit) did not pull away from the bone slightly, causing an "avulsion fracture." An x-ray would rule out any other bony involvement as well. Get a prescription fot physical therapy (orthopedics or sports PT would be best). This way you get sound medical advice and treatment, and avoid the risk of further injury. Good luck. lc Thanks for all the great advice. I’m beginning to believe this is not a stress fracture. I was able to run the final mile of a marathon yesterday with my wife with no pain(though quite slow:)). I’m now thinking it’s a pull/strain of some sort. The confusing part is I’ve never had a pull/strain when I was just running normally(not sprinting, jumping, slashing, etc). Swimming and cycling have been fine and I’m going to try an easy run today. Wish me luck. Thanks again for all the advice. Digger

Response:

Excellent promo for the physiotherapist (physical therapist)! Digger, I would go see an orthopedist (MD) and let him evaluate you. With the "pop" you wanna make sure that your groin muscle (if this is the culprit) did not pull away from the bone slightly, causing an "avulsion fracture." An x-ray would rule out any other bony involvement as well. Get a prescription fot physical therapy (orthopedics or sports PT would be best). This way you get sound medical advice and treatment, and avoid the risk of further injury. Good luck. lc

Thanks for all the great advice. I’m beginning to believe this is not a stress fracture. I was able to run the final mile of a marathon yesterday with my wife with no pain(though quite slow:)). I’m now thinking it’s a pull/strain of some sort. The confusing part is I’ve never had a pull/strain when I was just running normally(not sprinting, jumping, slashing, etc). Swimming and cycling have been fine and I’m going to try an easy run today. Wish me luck. Thanks again for all the advice. Digger

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Doesn’t sound like a stress fracture, and these are very rare in the upper leg/pelvic area. Sometimes muscle pulls and tears "feel" like they are popping or making a sound even though bones are not involved. I pulled a hamstring in very cold weather playing football, and the "snap" was so palpable I thought I heard a gun shot fired at the back of my leg. Most running stress fractures involve the lower leg and their effects come on slowly, often mistaken for tendonitis or other problems. You should definitely cut back on running and/or take every other day off. You may be able to replace this time with swimming (very easy) or cycling (relatively easy). If you have pain doing these things as well, then you may have a very serious problem and should seek medical diagnosis. If you just can’t run at all without pain, take several days off and cross-train. If you can’t even cross-train, you have a serious problem (yes, I’m repeating myself on purpose). Also backtrack in your training and check to see if you have been: 1. Increasing run mileage sharply, more than 10% per week. 2. Recently ran a marathon or a race much longer than you usually do. 3. Changed running surfaces, such as from trails to pavement, or different inclines of pavement. 4. Changed nutrition or overall body weight, gained pounds, lost a LOT of pounds, etc. 5. Took just about any form of medication. 6. Stopped taking nutritional supplements like vitamins, minerals, or other micronutrients, or added new ones. 7. Changed running technique, or style or equipment in other sports (bike fit, swim drills, etc.) Sometimes a problem in one area can originate with a change in an opposing area in another part of the body. A chiropractor or kinesiologist can really help you hear. And of course a standard MD who has RUNNING EXPERIENCE can also help. Unfortunately, non-running doctors can easily become confused and wrongly diagnose these kinds of problems with statements like, "This is very serious. You need to give up running, maybe forever," or "you need major surgery." If you are master’s athlete, it may be true you need to spend more time on the bike and in the pool and less on the run, but this should not necessarily hurt your triathlon performance. As for medical diagnosis, an X-ray or even better, an ultrasound, should show conclusive whether there is indeed a fracture–end of mystery. That out of the way, then you can move on to figuring out what it really is. I have been running/triing for 12+ years and have had just about any injury out there, except a stress fracture. Last Saturday(Dec 28th) I was out for an easy 10 mile run when at mile 9 I felt a ‘pop’ in my upper groin area. Thinking I pulled something I stopped and stretched for 5 minutes but was unable to run another step without severe pain. I walked to final mile home with only mild discomfort. There was no warning of any sort and I was running hard or anything out of the ordinary. I stretched again when I got home and had no pain. 2 days later I tried a couple of jogging steps and had to stop immediately because of the pain. Same today, 7 days later. The only way to replicate the pain is running/jogging. Not stretching, pressing it, etc. I can’t get into a doctor until middle of next week. Does anyone out there with experience with stress fractures think this sounds familiar? If not, what else do you think this might be? I’m very confused as I’m in a down training period and only running 20-30 miles a week as opposed to a normal 35-45 and would think I wasn’t in danger of an over-training injury like this. Thanks for any and all advice. Thanks. Digger

As the unfortunate survivor of three stress fractures (one in the upper femur, two in the fibula), and someone who has researched stress fractures quite alot while recovering, I can say with some confidence that hearing a ‘pop’ with pain after, but without pain before is unlikely to be a stress fracture. Can you stand on that one leg? Can you hop up and down on the afflicted side? What is the pain like, is it sharp or dull? Stress fractures have a dull pain. While my doctor was confused about the femur fracture, a bone scan confirmed what the hop test showed. Finally, in all my stress fractures a week off didn’t help in the least. Best of luck, Jeff —

Response:

Can someone who has had a stress fracture of the foot post information on how to tell if you have a stress fracture. I suspect I have one. Pain is very intense on the outside of the foot about two inches back from little toe extending to just below the ankle bone when I walk for over five minutes.

Response:

Dear solajo, I had a stress fracture and it felt like a burning sensation. I went to a sport medicine doctor. He x-ray’d it (where it didn’t really show) and then I got a bone scan (even I could see it in the bone scan). country skiing. I had to wear stiff boots to the gym and stick to the stair master. (flat footed so that I didn’t flex my foot.) Good luck, Johnny – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone who has had a stress fracture of the foot post information on how to tell if you have a stress fracture. I suspect I have one. Pain is very intense on the outside of the foot about two inches back from little toe extending to just below the ankle bone when I walk for over five minutes.

Response:

I am on my second stress fracture. My first came when I was 15 in the middle of a 15-mile road race. The fracture was in the bone above the middle toe (sorry, I don’t remember the latin name for the bone). It hurt like hell after about mile 7 and I had to stop after 12 miles. It’s been a long time, but I don’t remember that walking hurt it much , nor did riding a bike. Now, at age 42, I have another one that came on like tendonitis above my ankle in early spring. I ran with it for weeks, and at first it hurt only while I was warming up, going away after about two miles. But it got gradually worse, and when I could no longer warm up for races properly because of growing discomfort, I went to the doctor, where an X-ray revealed a stress fracture of the fibula. Probably your best bet is to get to a doctor for an X-ray — although my doc said stress fractures don’t always show up. Good luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone who has had a stress fracture of the foot post information on how to tell if you have a stress fracture. I suspect I have one. Pain is very intense on the outside of the foot about two inches back from little toe extending to just below the ankle bone when I walk for over five minutes.

Response:

Last spring during track season I had stress fractures on both of my Tibia.. Stress fractures feel like pinching or poking and no matter what you do nothing eases the pain. My best advice is go to the doctor . Because i didn`t and, now I can`t run like I used to. If you decide not to go to the doctor. Take time off from running and swim instead, then take calcium tablets with Oyster shell to heal the fracture.

Response:

I had 3 – both femurs and right tibia. Felt like very bad shin splints on the outside of the shins. Femurs didn’t hurt at all (wonder why). X-rays also showed nothing. Bone scan showed fractures. Godd luck.

Response:

what is your exercise routine?

admin — Tue, 31 Dec 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

To follow up on a recent post of mine regarding running on back to back days, I thought it would be interesting to know everyone’s typical exercise routine. It’s always nice to compare ourselves to others, whether it’s through competition or just sharing insight on our training. So I was wondering, for those interested, could you list the following: (1) Your typical exercise schedule (2) Typical exercise time (3) gear used (HRM’s, etc.) (4) How long you’ve been running/jogging

(1) Swim training class Monday & Thursday…..45 mins each Run in gym Monday, Wednesday……20-30 mins each Monday, 45 mins Tuesday Run outside Saturday….currently up to 45 minutes (about 5 miles), working on building up time Cycle outside Sunday…..15 miles, about 45 minutes (3) Fitsense speedo/distance thing + HRM. Cycle computer for cadence (4) Running since August 2002

Response:

(1) Your typical exercise schedule

My winter schedule: Mon : 3 to 3.5 mile run on threadmill the last half a mile at a brisk pace and then weight training. TUE : Run about 3 miles outside with a few fast intervals. WED : Play squash and may or may not do some weights. THUR: Run about 5 to 6 miles outside. FRI : rest day. SAT : Early morning ride with a bicycle group (my cross training day). SUN : Generally flexible, either do a long run, or ride my bike, or play squash or lift weights or vegitate. (2) Typical exercise time

Depends on the day, can range from 30 min to 3 hours. (3) gear used (HRM’s, etc.)

While running the only thing I use is a mp3 player the size of a matchbox. (4) How long you’ve been running/jogging

About 2 years now. Farang.

Response:

Maybe I’ve got alzheimer’s in reverse and I’m remembering things before they happen,

What you were *trying*, but, sadly, failing to say, was that you were experiencing what our French chums call ‘deja vu’ (already seen). You may be interested to know that this experience is sometimes associated with exhaustion and is occasional symptomatic of the onset of certain mental

Response:

(1) Your typical exercise schedule

—Under ideal conditions (no work problems etc) rotation is 3-week blocks, right now two of them at least 100 miles and the third rest (70-75 miles). One day off during that three weeks, usually Monday of rest week. I run in PM usually, but 3-4 times a week I run 7 or 12 in the AM as well to get to 100. Typical week is easy Mon, speed/intervals Tues, easy but long Wed, tempo Thurs, easy but long Fri, long run Sat, Sun variable. (2) Typical exercise time

—1-2 hours per day depending on mileage, up to 2.5 on longer days. (3) gear used (HRM’s, etc.)

—Stopwatch, HRM once in a blue moon just for kicks. (4) How long you’ve been running/jogging

—Twelve years now. Andy Hass

Response:

I thought we just did this a month or so back. Maybe I’ve got alzheimer’s in reverse and I’m remembering things before they happen, anyway here it is. 1 run five miles on Sat,Sun,Tues & Thurs Mon, Wed, Fri, shoot pool and chase trashy women. 2 five miles takes me 45 minutes catching trashy women a little longer 3 gear, K-mart polartech watch $4.99 4 Been at it 15 years

Response:

Experimenting with 14-day cycle (3 days/wk was too much, 2 days/wk was too little) governed by prep for / recovery from 2-hr cross-training session (circuit, weights, strength exercises, jumping, stretching) on Sundays as well as achilles recovery: M – 30-35 min easy W – longer run (but not necessarily long run) – 40-60 min F – 30-50 min easy (W and F may be flipped if needed) Sat – swim 45-60 min Sun – 2hr cross-training M – rest T – medium R – long run – 60 min and rising 10% every other week, approx. Sat – swim 45-60 min Sun – 2hr xt I periodize with the seasons. If we get a bunch of snow, the running will become snowshoe running (will need to decrease times or make them run/walk) and perhaps some xc skiing. Right now I’m recovering from some AT, but working with a PT on some preventive exercises. So interspersed amongst all the above are an assortment of exercises on most days – sometimes 5 min at a time, sometimes 30min, most any time of day – that also require recovery time. Toward the end of March, I hope to be making 1 run (Wed or Fri) on the 3-day week a hill run (NOT hard repeats) and adding some mt biking back in (increasing time and adding hills as snow melts from trails), and may end up dropping xt in April, depending on volume and recovery. If recovery continues as good as it has been the last couple weeks, I may add a 3rd day in the 2-day week. Target race is late May. (2) Typical exercise time

30 min to 2 hr now, but will get longer as my long runs increase and add mt bike riding back in (3) gear used (HRM’s, etc.)

fluid/gear carrier: UD Solitaire 4s, UD Gemini 4s, Camelbak Cloudwalker (70oz) depending on planned (possible) length of run/bike, trail, weather, etc lights: Photon Fusion, Lightwave Illuminator (headlamp) or 2000 (flashlight) (green, white lights) – still testing hrm: S410 sometimes a GPS for mapping trails (4) How long you’ve been running/jogging

casual, short jogging off/on after work since late 70s (3 days/wk), structured running since March 2001 so very much a beginner at something resembling formal training Dot

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To follow up on a recent post of mine regarding running on back to back days, I thought it would be interesting to know everyone’s typical exercise routine. It’s always nice to compare ourselves to others, whether it’s through competition or just sharing insight on our training. So I was wondering, for those interested, could you list the following: (1) Your typical exercise schedule (2) Typical exercise time (3) gear used (HRM’s, etc.) (4) How long you’ve been running/jogging Here’s mine: (1) Alternate between 2 and 4 miles for 5-6 days a week, lift weights in the gym 3 times a week (2) 8 min miles on average (3) Polar S-410 heart rate monitor (4) 10 months Thanks, Dustin

ME: s-swim (1-1.5 hours), weights m-run (7 km) t-swim (about 45 min.), sometimes weights, sometimes cycle w- 7k run t-swim about 45 min. f-7k run s-total rest no HRM. been running about 3.5 years Cam

Response:

Hold on for few days Dustin. There is a weekly post which asks about schedule. You can can then read, compare or contrast. — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

Response:

Hold on for few days Dustin. There is a weekly post which asks about schedule. You can can then read, compare or contrast.

Doug, one word: troll. Bill R. you are still a fucker, cunt, shithead, fukwad, dickweed, and many others of my personal

favorites.

Response:

I post a weekly thread in which many people here contribute, involving weekly traing and goals. Reading this will help you a lot, as the entire range of running abilities is represented. However, to answer your questions from my viewpoint: (1) Your typical exercise schedule

50 – 70 miles a week, over 6 days. (2) Typical exercise time

This is a bit to varied to answer – sometimes I run just 4-5 miles, sometimes it’s 20. (3) gear used (HRM’s, etc.)

I don’t really like using anything – I’ve tried stuff like that and while I agree it’s helpful, I am going through a period of running by feel these days. (4) How long you’ve been running/jogging

about two and a half years. I hope to see you contribute to the weekly training thread. It’s a great motivator for many of us. cheers, — David (in Hamilton, ON) www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/2003.htm (my schedule) www.soundclick.com/allfalldown (my band’s website)

Response:

Ditch Trails

admin — Mon, 04 Nov 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know of a trail system that uses irrigation ditches. We have several ditches in the community and want to use them as trails but need to figure out a way to approch the ditch companies. There major concerns regarding liability. Any help that you could provide would be appreciated. I’m having trouble working out the logistics of this. The irrigation ditches I am familiar with are either earthen, usually with sporadic pools of water making them poor choices for walking in, or cement, with the possibility of large volumes of water flowing suddenly and without warning. Again, this would seem to be a poor choice for walking in. As well, most of these ditches don’t have any facility for getting in or out. The earthen ones just have banked sides, usually muddy. The cement ones are usually steep and sheer. Such ditches are sometimes designed with the notion of flood control in mind. If that’s the case, it would be the last place I’d want to go hiking. Little thunderstorm and you find yourself washed down to the ocean. So, I’m having difficulty seeing how you could make this a reasonably safe and enjoyable experience. Socks

I think numes was talking about walking/running/jogging along the sides or near the edges. Would be relatively flat and follow contours to some extent. Also good for catching frogs and snakes for lunch for the go-light crowd.

Response:

Does anyone know of a trail system that uses irrigation ditches. We have several ditches in the community and want to use them as trails but need to figure out a way to approch the ditch companies. There major concerns regarding liability. Any help that you could provide would be appreciated.

Sure drowning. Consider looking up the word canal instead. I think the Erie Canal is one. Hmmm, can’t remember how the CA state system is set up near Sacramento. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please explain. Most irrigation ditches that I know of are filled with irrigation water. This makes as much sense as asking how to get a mountaintop approved as a wetland. Is this a seasonal thing? This makes no sense.

Response:

Our larger irrigation ditches are roughly 15 to 20 feet wide and have a road that runs a long side of the ditch. There are a number of smaller ditches that feed off the main ditch. Thanks for the help

Response:

Please explain. Most irrigation ditches that I know of are filled with irrigation water.

Here in Colorado many irrigation ditches have trails or dirt roads alongside them that are used for ditch maintenance by the ditch riders. A lot of these roads and trails have big "NO TRESPASSING" signs on them. Outside of populated areas, they really don’t care if you trespass; it’s for the lawyers in case somebody gets hurt and they try to sue the ditch company. Be aware that a lot of ditches pass through private property. In public lands, there’s probably already access to the ditch. I have a good friend who’s a ditch rider. He actually gets PAID to hike up into the mountains . He also has access to all kinds of private property through which his ditches and trails pass. I accompany him every once in a while on his hikes. RFM

Response:

I’m having trouble working out the logistics of this. The irrigation ditches I am familiar with are either earthen, usually with sporadic pools of water making them poor choices for walking in, or cement, with the possibility of large volumes of water flowing suddenly and without warning. Again, this would seem to be a poor choice for walking in. As well, most of these ditches don’t have any facility for getting in or out. The earthen ones just have banked sides, usually muddy. The cement ones are usually steep and sheer. Such ditches are sometimes designed with the notion of flood control in mind. If that’s the case, it would be the last place I’d want to go hiking. Little thunderstorm and you find yourself washed down to the ocean. So, I’m having difficulty seeing how you could make this a reasonably safe and enjoyable experience. Socks

Response:

Ditchside trails are used in the Albq. valley as foot trails and horsepaths. However, the trails are there primarily for maintenance of the ditches, not the other way around.

How about the North-South trail along the asequia madre that runs from south of central to north of the alameda? That one was originally for maintenance, but is now a city walk/bike/ride path. The others are explicitly open to the public for use, but you’re right. They’re primarily for the ditchrider. Edward

Response:

[expounding on the above] Ditchside trails are used in the Albq. valley as foot trails and horsepaths. However, the trails are there primarily for maintenance of the ditches, not the other way around. — Pat O’Connell Take nothing but pictures, Leave nothing but footprints, Kill nothing but vandals…

Response:

Please explain. Most irrigation ditches that I know of are filled with irrigation water. This makes as much sense as asking how to get a mountaintop approved as a wetland. Is this a seasonal thing? This makes no sense.