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Question:

BTW, some guys have swapped in 5-speed manual trannies into their Caravans

There is a 5spd that mates to the 3.0. It was used in AP-bodies (Shadow/Sundance) and while I am not certain on this, it *may* have been used in AJ-bodies (LeBaron coupe/convertible). I have no idea whether it’s robust enough to haul around a minivan. There are *very* strong 5-speeds available for the 4-cylinder engines. DS

Response:

Thanks, DS, I’ll check with my tranny guy about switching to the A670. A little birdie told me I’d be a lot happier with it! BTW, some guys have swapped in 5-speed manual trannies into their Caravans — saw it on the ‘net. Driving hassles aside, any thoughts on what the relative longevity of a 5-speed manual Caravan might be? Thanks, –Kirk in Minnesota re: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a three-speed that came from another Caravan. I assume it’s the A607. A670, if it came from behind a 3.0 V6. (If it came in a 4-cylinder, it won’t fit with your V6). Not sure if it has all the accessories, though… Would it be difficult to find them in a junkyard? Probably not, no. Any axles or other "big" parts that need to be swapped? Nope. Mount brackets *may* differ, but I don’t think so. DS

Response:

DS: I have a three-speed that came from another Caravan. I assume it’s the A607. Not sure if it has all the accessories, though… Would it be difficult to find them in a junkyard? Any axles or other "big" parts that need to be swapped? Thanks, –kirk re:

Response:

I have a three-speed that came from another Caravan. I assume it’s the A607.

A670, if it came from behind a 3.0 V6. (If it came in a 4-cylinder, it won’t fit with your V6). Not sure if it has all the accessories, though… Would it be difficult to find them in a junkyard?

Probably not, no. Any axles or other "big" parts that need to be swapped?

Nope. Mount brackets *may* differ, but I don’t think so. DS

Response:

Dan, when I replied I thought he might have a 2.2L in his van. After I posted he stated that he had the 3.0 V-6, so I have to retract comments that do not apply. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ….. Not sure why we’re discussing 4-cylinder engines and direct-drive starters, though — the OP has a V6 van. My mechanic suggested that one way is to find the "number" of the 3-speed you have on the vehicle now and the number of the 3-speed donor transmission and use a Hollander manual to see if they can be interchanged. Doesn’t sound as if your mechanic has much experience with Hollander manuals. They inform you what parts are physically and functionally identical — they do NOT give information like "The 3-speed auto will fit in place of the 4-speed if you install a different shift cable and put in a kickdown cable and…" etc.

My mechanic makes his living repairing cars and teaching others how to do the same thing. He has a line up of fellows who come to him with problems that others cannot solve. Like I said, I assumed a 2.2L engine in the OP’s van. My mechanic never inferred anything about "The 3-speed auto will fit in place of the 4-speed if you install a different shift cable and put in a kickdown cable and…"  as that is your inference. To end any head-bashing, I admit that I made a mistake assuming the van had a 2.2L engine. That assumption made an ass of my comment – ANY ONLY of my comment.. There! Everyone feel better?  Lets try to help the OP’s concern and stick to that without passing judgment on anyone else’s abilities

Response:

I can have the engine and tranny rebuilt for about $2000

Or you could take a little road trip down to Ventura, CA and pick up the nice-running/nice-shifting 67k-mile 3.0/604 that are coming out of my ‘92 Spirit to make way for a 2.5 Turbo II and matching auto…! My question is about the tranny. I have two 4-speed overdrives which, according to anecdotal and personal evidence, are fairly unreliable.

Quite. And I have one 3-speed tranny from an 89 Plymouth Voyager.

If it’s behind a V6 engine, it’ll fit fine. Grab everything — shift cable, kickdown cable and bracket, speed/distance sensor, gear shift indicator plate inside the van, and engine control computer — go through the trans, and swap it in. If the ‘89 is a 4-cylinder, the trans won’t fit. Should it be more reliable than the 4-speeds?

MUCH!! Is this a good idea?

It is a tremendously good idea. DS

Response:

Can anything be done during the rebuild to INCREASE the reliability of the 1989 Caravan 4-speed tranny?

Certainly! 1) Install a later transmission control computer, e.g. from a ‘95 or so. Mechanically and electrically they swap right on, and the programming is much, much "friendlier" to the hardware. The later computers are identified by a finned case rather than a smooth/unfinned one, and they can be "flashed" (updated with new firmware), which the older ones cannot. 2) Obtain the transmission from a very-late-model (current production) wreck and swap the guts complete into your ‘89 case. OR 3) Dispense with the A604 altogether and build and swap-in an A670 3-speed auto. DS

Response:

production of the 2.2L. I don’t know which engine you have so am just using the 2.2 differences as something to remember. I don’t know if a different tranny was used in a Turbo engine as compared to a normally asphirated (spelling??) one either.

"Different" in that it had more clutch plates, different final drive ratio and (through ‘90) a non-lockup torque converter, yes, but they are physically interchangeable. Not sure why we’re discussing 4-cylinder engines and direct-drive starters, though — the OP has a V6 van. It is not as easy to asnwer as you might think.

It is exactly as easy to answer as he might think: Yes, an A670 3-speed automatic will go directly in place of an A604 4-speed automatic behind a 3.0 V6. A different gearshift cable is required, and of course the kickdown cable must be installed, and there are other minor adaptations, but beyonr that, no difficulty will be encountered. My mechanic suggested that one way is to find the "number" of the 3-speed you have on the vehicle now and the number of the 3-speed donor transmission and use a Hollander manual to see if they can be interchanged.

Doesn’t sound as if your mechanic has much experience with Hollander manuals. They inform you what parts are physically and functionally identical — they do NOT give information like "The 3-speed auto will fit in place of the 4-speed if you install a different shift cable and put in a kickdown cable and…" etc. DS

Response:

Ooops! All vehicles (runners, parts trucks and tranny donors) have 3.0 L engines. Is switching to the three-speed a real hassle? –Kirk re: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Which engine do you have? Which engine was attached to the "donor" 3-speed you have? The 3-speed bell housing changed when the starter (on the 2.2L0 was changed from direct drive to gear reduction. Then there was the difference in torque converters when the cranks were changed in the production of the 2.2L. I don’t know which engine you have so am just using the 2.2 differences as something to remember. I don’t know if a different tranny was used in a Turbo engine as compared to a normally asphirated (spelling??) one either.

Response:

Related Question: Can anything be done during the rebuild to INCREASE the reliability of the 1989 Caravan 4-speed tranny?  Or are these things simply doomed? Perhaps I should rebuild BOTH 4-speed units so I can swap them in and out every 25,000 miles?  Ouch!  :) Thanks, as usual, –Kirk re: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The 3-speed is reputed to be MORE reliable than the plagued 4-speed. I seldom read about 3-speed problems but read about a lot of 4-speed failures. Ken in Manitoba

Response:

Which engine do you have? Which engine was attached to the "donor" 3-speed you have? The 3-speed bell housing changed when the starter (on the 2.2L0 was changed from direct drive to gear reduction. Then there was the difference in torque converters when the cranks were changed in the production of the 2.2L. I don’t know which engine you have so am just using the 2.2 differences as something to remember. I don’t know if a different tranny was used in a Turbo engine as compared to a normally asphirated (spelling??) one either. It is not as easy to asnwer as you might think. My mechanic suggested that one way is to find the "number" of the 3-speed you have on the vehicle now and the number of the 3-speed donor transmission and use a Hollander manual to see if they can be interchanged. This is a timely question because the 3-speed in my ‘84 has just started shifting problems – due to one of the diff bearings starting to fail and the little chips are getting into the governor causing shift problems. Solution is a complete rebuild (tranny has about 270,000 km and is probably original) and a rebuilt torque converter AND flushing the oil cooler + hoses. My question is about the tranny. I have two 4-speed overdrives which, according to anecdotal and personal evidence, are fairly unreliable. And I have one 3-speed tranny from an 89 Plymouth Voyager. Will the three-speed fit?

See above. Should it be more reliable than the 4-speeds?  (Especially when pulling my fishing boat or pop-up camper trailer?)

The 3-speed is reputed to be MORE reliable than the plagued 4-speed. I seldom read about 3-speed problems but read about a lot of 4-speed failures. Ken in Manitoba

Response:

Hi, gang: I’m rebuilding my 89 Grand Caravan (don’t laugh! I love the thing, and the old-timer I bought it from 4 years ago paid almost $2000 to rustproof the chassis — a huge advantage here in salt-the-roads Minnesota). Besides, I have a second 89 Caravan for parts Anyway, the chassis and running gear are in excellent shape, but the engine and the second 4-speed tranny are coming close to the 200,000-mile mark. It runs okay, but it’s been sounding like crap for more than a year. (It drives very nicely, however, with smooth suspension, tight steering and all possible options. It’s a power marshmallow!) I can have the engine and tranny rebuilt for about $2000, and I can handle the paint and minor body work myself. With what new (or newer) vehicles cost these days, I just don’t wanna invest… My question is about the tranny. I have two 4-speed overdrives which, according to anecdotal and personal evidence, are fairly unreliable. And I have one 3-speed tranny from an 89 Plymouth Voyager. Will the three-speed fit? Should it be more reliable than the 4-speeds?  (Especially when pulling my fishing boat or pop-up camper trailer?) Do I need to change the front axles or anything else to make it fit? Is this a good idea? Thanks in advance, –Kirk in Minnesota

Response:

Hi, gang: I’m rebuilding my 89 Grand Caravan (don’t laugh! I love the thing, and the old-timer I bought it from 4 years ago paid almost $2000 to rustproof the chassis — a huge advantage here in salt-the-roads Minnesota). Besides, I have a second 89 Caravan for parts Anyway, the chassis and running gear are in excellent shape, but the engine and the second 4-speed tranny are coming close to the 200,000-mile mark. It runs okay, but it’s been sounding like crap for more than a year. (It drives very nicely, however, with smooth suspension, tight steering and all possible options. It’s a power marshmallow!) I can have the engine and tranny rebuilt for about $2000, and I can handle the paint and minor body work myself. With what new (or newer) vehicles cost these days, I just don’t wanna invest… My question is about the tranny. I have two 4-speed overdrives which, according to anecdotal and personal evidence, are fairly unreliable. And I have one 3-speed tranny from an 89 Plymouth Voyager. Will the three-speed fit? Should it be more reliable than the 4-speeds?  (Especially when pulling my fishing boat or pop-up camper trailer?) Do I need to change the front axles or anything else to make it fit? Is this a good idea? Thanks in advance, –Kirk in Minnesota

Response:

Which engine do you have? Which engine was attached to the "donor" 3-speed you have? The 3-speed bell housing changed when the starter (on the 2.2L0 was changed from direct drive to gear reduction. Then there was the difference in torque converters when the cranks were changed in the production of the 2.2L. I don’t know which engine you have so am just using the 2.2 differences as something to remember. I don’t know if a different tranny was used in a Turbo engine as compared to a normally asphirated (spelling??) one either. It is not as easy to asnwer as you might think. My mechanic suggested that one way is to find the "number" of the 3-speed you have on the vehicle now and the number of the 3-speed donor transmission and use a Hollander manual to see if they can be interchanged. This is a timely question because the 3-speed in my ‘84 has just started shifting problems – due to one of the diff bearings starting to fail and the little chips are getting into the governor causing shift problems. Solution is a complete rebuild (tranny has about 270,000 km and is probably original) and a rebuilt torque converter AND flushing the oil cooler + hoses. My question is about the tranny. I have two 4-speed overdrives which, according to anecdotal and personal evidence, are fairly unreliable. And I have one 3-speed tranny from an 89 Plymouth Voyager. Will the three-speed fit?

See above. Should it be more reliable than the 4-speeds?  (Especially when pulling my fishing boat or pop-up camper trailer?)

The 3-speed is reputed to be MORE reliable than the plagued 4-speed. I seldom read about 3-speed problems but read about a lot of 4-speed failures. Ken in Manitoba

Response:

Ooops! All vehicles (runners, parts trucks and tranny donors) have 3.0 L engines. Is switching to the three-speed a real hassle? –Kirk re: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Which engine do you have? Which engine was attached to the "donor" 3-speed you have? The 3-speed bell housing changed when the starter (on the 2.2L0 was changed from direct drive to gear reduction. Then there was the difference in torque converters when the cranks were changed in the production of the 2.2L. I don’t know which engine you have so am just using the 2.2 differences as something to remember. I don’t know if a different tranny was used in a Turbo engine as compared to a normally asphirated (spelling??) one either.

Response:

Related Question: Can anything be done during the rebuild to INCREASE the reliability of the 1989 Caravan 4-speed tranny?  Or are these things simply doomed? Perhaps I should rebuild BOTH 4-speed units so I can swap them in and out every 25,000 miles?  Ouch!  :) Thanks, as usual, –Kirk re: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The 3-speed is reputed to be MORE reliable than the plagued 4-speed. I seldom read about 3-speed problems but read about a lot of 4-speed failures. Ken in Manitoba

Response:

Can anything be done during the rebuild to INCREASE the reliability of the 1989 Caravan 4-speed tranny?

Certainly! 1) Install a later transmission control computer, e.g. from a ‘95 or so. Mechanically and electrically they swap right on, and the programming is much, much "friendlier" to the hardware. The later computers are identified by a finned case rather than a smooth/unfinned one, and they can be "flashed" (updated with new firmware), which the older ones cannot. 2) Obtain the transmission from a very-late-model (current production) wreck and swap the guts complete into your ‘89 case. OR 3) Dispense with the A604 altogether and build and swap-in an A670 3-speed auto. DS

Response:

production of the 2.2L. I don’t know which engine you have so am just using the 2.2 differences as something to remember. I don’t know if a different tranny was used in a Turbo engine as compared to a normally asphirated (spelling??) one either.

"Different" in that it had more clutch plates, different final drive ratio and (through ‘90) a non-lockup torque converter, yes, but they are physically interchangeable. Not sure why we’re discussing 4-cylinder engines and direct-drive starters, though — the OP has a V6 van. It is not as easy to asnwer as you might think.

It is exactly as easy to answer as he might think: Yes, an A670 3-speed automatic will go directly in place of an A604 4-speed automatic behind a 3.0 V6. A different gearshift cable is required, and of course the kickdown cable must be installed, and there are other minor adaptations, but beyonr that, no difficulty will be encountered. My mechanic suggested that one way is to find the "number" of the 3-speed you have on the vehicle now and the number of the 3-speed donor transmission and use a Hollander manual to see if they can be interchanged.

Doesn’t sound as if your mechanic has much experience with Hollander manuals. They inform you what parts are physically and functionally identical — they do NOT give information like "The 3-speed auto will fit in place of the 4-speed if you install a different shift cable and put in a kickdown cable and…" etc. DS

Response:

I can have the engine and tranny rebuilt for about $2000

Or you could take a little road trip down to Ventura, CA and pick up the nice-running/nice-shifting 67k-mile 3.0/604 that are coming out of my ‘92 Spirit to make way for a 2.5 Turbo II and matching auto…! My question is about the tranny. I have two 4-speed overdrives which, according to anecdotal and personal evidence, are fairly unreliable.

Quite. And I have one 3-speed tranny from an 89 Plymouth Voyager.

If it’s behind a V6 engine, it’ll fit fine. Grab everything — shift cable, kickdown cable and bracket, speed/distance sensor, gear shift indicator plate inside the van, and engine control computer — go through the trans, and swap it in. If the ‘89 is a 4-cylinder, the trans won’t fit. Should it be more reliable than the 4-speeds?

MUCH!! Is this a good idea?

It is a tremendously good idea. DS

Response:

Dan, when I replied I thought he might have a 2.2L in his van. After I posted he stated that he had the 3.0 V-6, so I have to retract comments that do not apply. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ….. Not sure why we’re discussing 4-cylinder engines and direct-drive starters, though — the OP has a V6 van. My mechanic suggested that one way is to find the "number" of the 3-speed you have on the vehicle now and the number of the 3-speed donor transmission and use a Hollander manual to see if they can be interchanged. Doesn’t sound as if your mechanic has much experience with Hollander manuals. They inform you what parts are physically and functionally identical — they do NOT give information like "The 3-speed auto will fit in place of the 4-speed if you install a different shift cable and put in a kickdown cable and…" etc.

My mechanic makes his living repairing cars and teaching others how to do the same thing. He has a line up of fellows who come to him with problems that others cannot solve. Like I said, I assumed a 2.2L engine in the OP’s van. My mechanic never inferred anything about "The 3-speed auto will fit in place of the 4-speed if you install a different shift cable and put in a kickdown cable and…"  as that is your inference. To end any head-bashing, I admit that I made a mistake assuming the van had a 2.2L engine. That assumption made an ass of my comment – ANY ONLY of my comment.. There! Everyone feel better?  Lets try to help the OP’s concern and stick to that without passing judgment on anyone else’s abilities

Response:

DS: I have a three-speed that came from another Caravan. I assume it’s the A607. Not sure if it has all the accessories, though… Would it be difficult to find them in a junkyard? Any axles or other "big" parts that need to be swapped? Thanks, –kirk re:

Response:

I have a three-speed that came from another Caravan. I assume it’s the A607.

A670, if it came from behind a 3.0 V6. (If it came in a 4-cylinder, it won’t fit with your V6). Not sure if it has all the accessories, though… Would it be difficult to find them in a junkyard?

Probably not, no. Any axles or other "big" parts that need to be swapped?

Nope. Mount brackets *may* differ, but I don’t think so. DS

Response:

Thanks, DS, I’ll check with my tranny guy about switching to the A670. A little birdie told me I’d be a lot happier with it! BTW, some guys have swapped in 5-speed manual trannies into their Caravans — saw it on the ‘net. Driving hassles aside, any thoughts on what the relative longevity of a 5-speed manual Caravan might be? Thanks, –Kirk in Minnesota re: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a three-speed that came from another Caravan. I assume it’s the A607. A670, if it came from behind a 3.0 V6. (If it came in a 4-cylinder, it won’t fit with your V6). Not sure if it has all the accessories, though… Would it be difficult to find them in a junkyard? Probably not, no. Any axles or other "big" parts that need to be swapped? Nope. Mount brackets *may* differ, but I don’t think so. DS

Response:

BTW, some guys have swapped in 5-speed manual trannies into their Caravans

There is a 5spd that mates to the 3.0. It was used in AP-bodies (Shadow/Sundance) and while I am not certain on this, it *may* have been used in AJ-bodies (LeBaron coupe/convertible). I have no idea whether it’s robust enough to haul around a minivan. There are *very* strong 5-speeds available for the 4-cylinder engines. DS

Response: