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Question:

Oops, I still didn’t complete my thought.  Anyway, for an elite athlete, sport specific detraining for more than 3 or 4 weeks will result in significant performance deterioration even with cross-training substitution; especially if detraining is the result of an injury or illness.  Then there are times when some athletes find it beneficial to detrain over a 3 or 4 week period in order to alleviate mental burnout, or to recuperate from a long period of physical overtraining.  In such cases, when training resumes, performance indicators might remain stable, and/or improve much more rapidly than otherwise expected. — Andrew A good friend will bail you out of jail, whereas a true friend will be sitting in the cell with you saying, "Dude, that was so f…ing awesome!"

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I just found out I have a bronchial infection and have to take some time off both running and lifting. How long can I take off before I "lose" what I have gained. How do I come back safely?

I ran and lifted during a recent "flu", which I’m almost certain was a bronchial infection.  Just at a lower intensity.

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Jerry Freedman writes: I just found out I have a bronchial infection and have to take some time off both running and lifting. How long can I take off before I "lose" what I have gained. How do I come back safely? I ran and lifted during a recent "flu", which I’m almost certain was a bronchial infection.  Just at a lower intensity.

I wouldn’t recommend doing that. Jerry:  health first, strength second. -Wayne

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What does that mean?  I lose 1/7 to 1/4 of my capillaries if I don’t train for a week to two months?  That doesn’t seem reasonable. No it doesn’t "seem" reasonable considering it takes longer to develop capillarization than to loose it.  It’s just not fair damn it!

No, my point was that it doesn’t seem reasonable that I can lose 1/7 of my capillaries in a week.  That has nothing to do with the time it takes to grow them. Seth — Who cares?  Shut up and lift. — Watson (the pencil neck) Davis

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No, my point was that it doesn’t seem reasonable that I can lose 1/7 of my

capillaries in a week.  That has nothing to do with the time it grow them. Hmmm…why doesn’t it "seem reasonable?"  What’s your basis for reasonbleness?  Ever had a fracture, and had to wear a splint for a couple of weeks?  Visually, the muscle lost from "reduced" mobility is pretty significant.  Ever had a broken bone that required a cast (no mobility) for 4 to 6 weeks.  The visual loss of muscle is striking (as much as 30-40%), especially if the break was in the leg.  Capillary loss, while not visually apparent, is just as great. There’s really nothing that "new" or "amazing" about loss of capillarization.  If you’re that skepitcal (or interested), then read up on it.  You’ll find info on building AND LOSING capillarization in texts by Costill, Costill & Wilmore, Brown, Coyle, Maglischo, Bompa and tons of other authors.  Costill’s got examples of detraining cylist’s by stopping training but only with 1 leg!  Also, there lots of older articles & abstracts (not much new stuff – this area was covered and beaten to death in the 30’s-40’s, again in the late 60’s-70’s; now the new stuff looks a drug enhanced capillarization rates): Klausen, Anderson, and Pelle, 1981.  Adaptive changes in work capacity, skeletal muscle capillarization and enzme levels during training & detraining.  Acta Physiologica Scandinavia, 113,9-16. Brodal, Ingjer, and hermansen.  Capillary supply of skeletal muscle fibers in untrained and endurance trained men. Acta Physiologica Scandinavia, (Suppl. 440), 178, 296. Hermansen, and Wachlova, 1971.  Capillary density of skeletal muscle in well-trained and untrained men.  Journal of Applied Physiology, 30, 860-863. Carrow, Brown, and Van Huss, 1967.  Fiber sizes and capillary to fiber ratios is skeletal muscles of of exercised rats.  Anatomical Record, 159, 33-38. — Andrew A good friend will bail you out of jail, whereas a true friend will be sitting in the cell with you saying, "Dude, that was so f…ing awesome!"

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How long can I take off before I "lose" what I have gained. Aerobic capacity (VO2max)  -  7% loss over 2 weeks, 16% loss over 12 weeks Aerobic enzymes – 10-50% over 2-6 weeks Stroke volume – 12% loss over 4 weeks Capillarization – 14-25% over 1-7 weeks Anaerobic capacity – 50% over 3 weeks Anaerobic enzymes – 0% over 4-12 weeks Lactate threshold  - 8-10% loss over 4 weeks, 17% loss over 12 weeks Are these numbers based on being laid up couch potato style or just not

running. Most of the studies were based on being laid up couch potato style. Certainly, one can mitigate some of the effects of detraining by participating in other activites, but the old "principle of specificity" is tough to get around. Central caridiovascular effects (stroke volume, bp, etc.) are probably the easiest to maintain.  Peripheral effects & adaptions (mitochondrial development; cellular myoglobin content; capillary density; glycogen, ATP & CP; lactate buffering capacity; protein content; etc.), on the other hand, are pretty difficult to maintain by switching sports.  The best bet for an injured or vacationing athlete is to substitute a sport that is as close as possible to their regular sport; eg., swimming & rowing; running & water running; cross-country skiing & ice skating; missionary position & … — Andrew A good friend will bail you out of jail, whereas a true friend will be sitting in the cell with you saying, "Dude, that was so f…ing awesome!"

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just found out I have a bronchial infection and have to take some time off both running and lifting. How long can I take off before I "lose" what I have gained. How do I come back safely? J. Freedman,Jr An old training formula is that it takes as long to get back in shape as the time you took off. So if you took three weeks off it would take three weeks to be in the same condition. This concept seems to work up to about six weeks. Beyond that you’re pretty much starting over anyway, except that experienced runners or athletes know how to come back more quickly. Could you tell us why an infection would force you into zero activity? Can’t you walk fast or do something? My sarcastic side senses that your doctor is a sedentary type himself and wishes to play it safe because he is unfamiliar with what can be done.

I am in pretty rough shape. I am not down to zero activity but I can’t do much – I tire easily. I am afraid of any kind of relapse since this has been so miserable so I don’t want to force anything. J. Freedman,JR

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…how long does it take to regain all of these losses? Is it faster than

getting there in the first place? Good question, but tough to answer.  The short version is it depends upon his or her age, prior conditioning, and activity levels.  It may also depend upon the reason he or she took the break from training: vacation, illness, injury, etc. Once lost, it usually takes most trained athletes 6-8 weeks to regain prior endurance training adaptions.  While raw power & strength deteriorate rapidly, sprinting speed does not seem to be as affected as much by training breaks.  Consequently, prior sprinting ability & prior lactate production levels can be regained rapidly.  Why?  There is no deterioration in anaerobic enzymes during detraining periods of less than 12 weeks.  I’m not sure how lactate tolerance tolerance declines, however, since it’s closely related to anaeorbic capacity, I assume the body’s ability to buffer lactate deteriorates rapidly with detraining, and I suspect regaining buffering capacity lags 1-2 weeks behind general endurance adaptions (9-10 weeks). — Andrew A good friend will bail you out of jail, whereas a true friend will be sitting in the cell with you saying, "Dude, that was so f…ing awesome!"

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How long can I take off before I "lose" what I have gained. Capillarization – 14-25% over 1-7 weeks

What does that mean?  I lose 1/7 to 1/4 of my capillaries if I don’t train for a week to two months?  That doesn’t seem reasonable. Seth — Don’t ever masturbate after getting capsaicin on your hands. — Patrick Arnold

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How long can I take off before I "lose" what I have gained. Aerobic capacity (VO2max)  -  7% loss over 2 weeks, 16% loss over 12 weeks Aerobic enzymes – 10-50% over 2-6 weeks Stroke volume – 12% loss over 4 weeks Capillarization – 14-25% over 1-7 weeks Anaerobic capacity – 50% over 3 weeks Anaerobic enzymes – 0% over 4-12 weeks Lactate threshold  - 8-10% loss over 4 weeks, 17% loss over 12 weeks — Andrew A good friend will bail you out of jail, whereas a true friend will be in the cell with you saying, "Dude, that was so f…ing awesome!"

        Are these numbers based on being laid up couch potato style or just not running. If someone continues anarobic training I.E. cycling, swimming etc what kind of loss is there? ~Matt

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What does that mean?  I lose 1/7 to 1/4 of my capillaries if I don’t train

for a week to two months?  That doesn’t seem reasonable. No it doesn’t "seem" reasonable considering it takes longer to develop capillarization than to loose it.  It’s just not fair damn it! Anyway, a "non-endurance trained" athelete can realize around a 15% increase in capillarization over 8 or so weeks of intensive endurance training. After that, capillarization occurs more slowly and typically caps out with about a 40-50% increase after yeeaaarrrrssss of endurance training. — Andrew A good friend will bail you out of jail, whereas a true friend will be sitting in the cell with you saying, "Dude, that was so f…ing awesome!"

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Are you a bear?   Do you hibernate?

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Are you a bear?  

Give me your address and I’ll send you a stool sample, see if you can figure it out. "Make no mistake about it! Without humor, freedom would drive you insane." Bill               I am so cool, that sheep count ME before they go to sleep. http://hometown.aol.com/mrrobottow/

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I just found out I have a bronchial infection and have to take some time off both running and lifting. How long can I take off before I "lose" what I have gained. How do I come back safely? J. Freedman,Jr An old training formula is that it takes as long to get back in shape as the time you took off. So if you took three weeks off it would take three weeks to be in the same condition. This concept seems to work up to about six weeks. Beyond that you’re pretty much starting over anyway, except that experienced runners or athletes know how to come back more quickly.

This is incorrect. For example. Take a person with a baseline strength level. Have them lift weights for 1 year to reach a new level of strength. Now, have that person take 1 year off. It will not take them as long to reach that previous level of strength that had taken them iow 1 year, the first time. There are a host of reasons for this, but the concept is sound. Whit – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could you tell us why an infection would force you into zero activity? Can’t you walk fast or do something? My sarcastic side senses that your doctor is a sedentary type himself and wishes to play it safe because he is unfamiliar with what can be done.

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An old training formula is that it takes as long to get back in shape as the time you took off. So if you took three weeks off it would take three weeks to be in the same condition. This concept seems to work up to about six weeks. Beyond that you’re pretty much starting over anyway, except that experienced runners or athletes know how to come back more quickly.

This is absurd, and completely wrong! I take the winter months off every season, that’s about 4 months with no activity. In the spring I am "back in shape" in less than a week. Long periods of no weight lifting has shown me the same kind of results. I guess it depends on the condition you are in to start with. Not everyone can be me. Could you tell us why an infection would force you into zero activity? Can’t you walk fast or do something? My sarcastic side senses that your doctor is a sedentary type himself and wishes to play it safe because he is unfamiliar with what can be done.

"Make no mistake about it! Without humor, freedom would drive you insane." Bill               I am so cool, that sheep count ME before they go to sleep. http://hometown.aol.com/mrrobottow/

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Enjoyed reading the information in the reply below.

Ignore that BS! Run when you feel better, if it helps keep running and if not stop. "Make no mistake about it! Without humor, freedom would drive you insane." Bill               I am so cool, that sheep count ME before they go to sleep. http://hometown.aol.com/mrrobottow/

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This is advice from a man who wants you dead.   Don’t run until 3 days AFTER your symptoms have abated.    Then you’ll get to be as old, and possibly as stupid, as Robot.

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How long can I take off before I "lose" what I have gained. Aerobic capacity (VO2max)  -  7% loss over 2 weeks, 16% loss over 12 weeks Aerobic enzymes – 10-50% over 2-6 weeks Stroke volume – 12% loss over 4 weeks Capillarization – 14-25% over 1-7 weeks Anaerobic capacity – 50% over 3 weeks Anaerobic enzymes – 0% over 4-12 weeks Lactate threshold  - 8-10% loss over 4 weeks, 17% loss over 12 weeks

OK, I won’t argue with the actual numbers…. But, assuming they are correct, how long does it take to regain all of these losses? Is it faster than getting there in the first place? Cheers, Marcus

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How long can I take off before I "lose" what I have gained. Aerobic capacity (VO2max)  -  7% loss over 2 weeks, 16% loss over 12 weeks Aerobic enzymes – 10-50% over 2-6 weeks Stroke volume – 12% loss over 4 weeks Capillarization – 14-25% over 1-7 weeks Anaerobic capacity – 50% over 3 weeks Anaerobic enzymes – 0% over 4-12 weeks Lactate threshold  - 8-10% loss over 4 weeks, 17% loss over 12 weeks OK, I won’t argue with the actual numbers…. But, assuming they are correct, how long does it take to regain all of these losses?

Depends Is it faster than getting there in the first place? Cheers, Marcus

Yes.  "Muscle Memory" and "Aerobix Memory" to coin a term are not myths. Whit – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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I just found out I have a bronchial infection and have to take some time off both running and lifting. How long can I take off before I "lose" what I have gained. How do I come back safely? J. Freedman,Jr

An old training formula is that it takes as long to get back in shape as the time you took off. So if you took three weeks off it would take three weeks to be in the same condition. This concept seems to work up to about six weeks. Beyond that you’re pretty much starting over anyway, except that experienced runners or athletes know how to come back more quickly. Could you tell us why an infection would force you into zero activity? Can’t you walk fast or do something? My sarcastic side senses that your doctor is a sedentary type himself and wishes to play it safe because he is unfamiliar with what can be done.

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I just found out I have a bronchial infection and have to take some time off both running and lifting. How long can I take off before I "lose" what I have gained. How do I come back safely? J. Freedman,Jr

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How long can I take off before I "lose" what I have gained.

Aerobic capacity (VO2max)  -  7% loss over 2 weeks, 16% loss over 12 weeks Aerobic enzymes – 10-50% over 2-6 weeks Stroke volume – 12% loss over 4 weeks Capillarization – 14-25% over 1-7 weeks Anaerobic capacity – 50% over 3 weeks Anaerobic enzymes – 0% over 4-12 weeks Lactate threshold  - 8-10% loss over 4 weeks, 17% loss over 12 weeks — Andrew A good friend will bail you out of jail, whereas a true friend will be in the cell with you saying, "Dude, that was so f…ing awesome!"

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Enjoyed reading the information in the reply below. And for a completely unscientific, personal answer to part of the original question, I recently took off from running for 5 weeks, after running regularly for more than 18 months: the first couple of weeks back on the road, I "felt" I had lost about a quarter of my running fitness base (approximated in my head only by breathing comfort half an hour into a run and how quickly I felt recovered after the run)…..this weekend, when I attempt my first 8-10 mile run since the break, I’ll get a little more information, I am sure. One of the things I was relieved to find is that feet and legs got right back into the routine of running with no strains, blisters or other ill effects from the layoff. -chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How long can I take off before I "lose" what I have gained. Aerobic capacity (VO2max)  -  7% loss over 2 weeks, 16% loss over 12 weeks Aerobic enzymes – 10-50% over 2-6 weeks Stroke volume – 12% loss over 4 weeks Capillarization – 14-25% over 1-7 weeks Anaerobic capacity – 50% over 3 weeks Anaerobic enzymes – 0% over 4-12 weeks Lactate threshold  - 8-10% loss over 4 weeks, 17% loss over 12 weeks — Andrew A good friend will bail you out of jail, whereas a true friend will be in the cell with you saying, "Dude, that was so f…ing awesome!"

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How long can I take off before I "lose" what I have gained. Aerobic capacity (VO2max)  -  7% loss over 2 weeks, 16% loss over 12 weeks Aerobic enzymes – 10-50% over 2-6 weeks Stroke volume – 12% loss over 4 weeks Capillarization – 14-25% over 1-7 weeks Anaerobic capacity – 50% over 3 weeks Anaerobic enzymes – 0% over 4-12 weeks Lactate threshold  - 8-10% loss over 4 weeks, 17% loss over 12 weeks

Good synopsis in terms of performance, but the original poster may have been referring to overall muscle mass, and how quickly he/she may atrophy.  Its not really clear. d.

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