Run Run Away » running fitness

Elliptical training a good substitute/suplement for running?

admin — Mon, 05 May 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

My questions on an elliptical would be these – 1. Is it possible to simulate running on it? In essence, can you do a quality run without the impact normally associated with it by using the elliptical? Given the problems that running can cause many people, this would seem to be an important question to answer, especially for elliptical sales people!

Try this: Set the incline to the flattest setting. Keep your cadence around 180. Vary the resistance whenever necessary to keep your heart rate in the correct range for the type of workout you are doing. Switching from an aerobic workout to a tempo/threshold workout is as simple as increasing the resistance to get your heart rate into the proper zone. — Keith Gemeinhart Sebring, FL —

Response:

Yes, if you have a good one, that is forget anything under $800. Get the NordicTrak910m, that does have adjustments to simulate running, to the best of my knowledge no other one does. 3. It would seem that for it to have real value for running, it would have to work out the specific muscle groups that one uses while running. Does it do this, and to what extent?

Yes, the one I mentioned above does, others don’t, so when theres posts saying "they don’t" or "they suck" it’s because they were playing with thjose $399 toys that are just that, toys. I only noticed very slight differences between running and the trainer. 4. What settingsposture works best for a run workout? For instance, how much incline, how much resistance?

The one I mentioned has several preset progs, as well as on line hookup capability, so the settings are endless. Further, should one attempt to use it without using the bars to hold onto?

If you do that then just do a treadmill workout, because the bars are the upper body workout. Bill R. OO

Response:

I can’t comment on it’s rehab value, but I have used it for the winter months, and actually gained running fitness when I returned to the roads, that is to say I was faster.

Interesting. My questions on an elliptical would be these – 1. Is it possible to simulate running on it? In essence, can you do a quality run without the impact normally associated with it by using the elliptical? Given the problems that running can cause many people, this would seem to be an important question to answer, especially for elliptical sales people! 2. If not, does it have any benefits OTHER than cardio related? I mean, what does it offer that I cannot already get by stepping up my swimcycling workouts? 3. It would seem that for it to have real value for running, it would have to work out the specific muscle groups that one uses while running. Does it do this, and to what extent? 4. What settingsposture works best for a run workout? For instance, how much incline, how much resistance? Further, should one attempt to use it without using the bars to hold onto? (Frequently people prop themselves up on the bars, reducing their effective weight, and I guess, the effective workout.) It’s a much different feel if you try to use it upright without hands, and I suspect that you use different muscles as well… I know that I definitely do get a workout on the machine, but never feel as worn out as when actually finishing a long run. Of course, the low impact nature of the elliptical could have a lot to do with that. If there are any answers to any of these, I’d be very interested in seeing them. BTW, thanks to the original poster for all his great links.

Response:

This question is often asked around here, especially by those of us struggling with injury recovery or trying to avoid injuries by not running Caveat Emptor: You will not improve your running unless you run. But the elliptical trainer does seem a good option to maintain one’s fitness level when a need to reduce or stop running arises.

Its true value as a rehab tool would be a test designed to measure how much a runner’s performance may be diminished if relegated to using only the eliptical trainer for a number of weeks. For example, does an 18:00 5K runner remain an 18:00 5K runner after rehab on the machine (provided time and exertion on the machine are the same as previous run training). I’m not aware that this has been explored.

Response:

With ellipticals, most of us, I assume, don’t have them in our homes,

You should! The starting price for an industrial quality eliptical is about $599 to $800 at Sears. Bill R. OO

Response:

I can’t comment on it’s rehab value, but I have used it for the winter months, and actually gained running fitness when I returned to the roads, that is to say I was faster. Bill R. OO

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This question is often asked around here, especially by those of us struggling with injury recovery or trying to avoid injuries by not running [] Caveat Emptor: You will not improve your running unless you run. But the elliptical trainer does seem a good option to maintain one’s fitness level when a need to reduce or stop running arises. So should this be the suggestion for injuries instead of pool running? Certainly sound easier than pool running. Anyone tried both and care to comment?? — Ed Prochak running http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/ netiquette http://www.psg.com/emily.html — "Two roads diverged in a wood and I I took the one less travelled by and that has made all the difference."

I have aqua jogged (run) and used an elliptical trainer while trying to heal achilles bursitis. I never felt that I worked my legs hard enough in the pool and it was boring as hell. Aqua jogging can give you a really decent aerobic workout. I would be sweating as I flailed through the water, but seemed to have no effect on leg muscles. The elliptical trainer can give you a hell of an aerobic workout too, and you feel like your legs got some exercise too. Both useful if you keep the intensity up there. dave

Response:

So should this be the suggestion for injuries instead of pool running? Certainly sound easier than pool running. Anyone tried both and care to comment?? — Ed Prochak running http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/ netiquette http://www.psg.com/emily.html — "Two roads diverged in a wood and I I took the one less travelled by and that has made all the difference." robert frost

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This question is often asked around here, especially by those of us struggling with injury recovery or trying to avoid injuries by not running [] Caveat Emptor: You will not improve your running unless you run. But the elliptical trainer does seem a good option to maintain one’s fitness level when a need to reduce or stop running arises. So should this be the suggestion for injuries instead of pool running? Certainly sound easier than pool running. Anyone tried both and care to comment??

I used both all winter when dealing with IT pain during marathon training. I think the combination is what kept me going, and the conditioning they provided is was kept the IT at bay enough for me to run and finish the race. Had I had more time, I would have just taken it as full rest and recovery time, but the elliptical and water running together enabled me to keep up with the training as the long runs increased from the 12-13 mile range (onset) to the 20 miler. There are advantages and disadvantages to each, from my perspective: Pool running can be deadly, deadly boring. But the workout feels whole-body, is intense, and puts no discernable strain on the injuries if you’re doing things right and should be exercising at all. If you can find a pool that’s got open recreational swim times for an hour or two, you can put in all the time you need/can stand to approximate a long run time. (My upper limit was an hour and a half one day. I longed for a coat of fresh coat of paint so I could watch it dry…) With ellipticals, most of us, I assume, don’t have them in our homes, so access gets limited. At my local Y, I never had the option of just hoping on one of the ellipticals for more than 30 minutes at a time– though I’d sometimes cheat the rule and do 45 when the place was relatively empty. If you’re of a mind to listen to headphones, ellipticals allow that, obviously, and the pool doesn’t. You can vary the workouts tremendously on most machines, adjusting intervals and intensity as you wish/need, and tracking your distance and heart rate, as well, on the better models. I would, occasionally, feel a twinge or three in the knee on the elliptical– never in the pool– but never as bad as it was/would have been when running at that time. I tended to prefer the models with the accompanying poles for the arms– to me that felt more like running. Physically, each seemed to do what I needed it to do. Psychologically, I’m *really* glad I had both at hand. — Shalom, Peace, Salaam George Grattan (This post is intended for a Usenet newsgroup only. Its appearance in any other forum that does not clearly identify it as originally posted to Usenet is therefore a misrepresentation, is done against my wishes, and may indicate other unauthorized distortions of content and/or context. Correctly attributed and/or unedited copies of this post in other forums do not necessarily indicate my willing participation in them.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

This question is often asked around here, especially by those of us struggling with injury recovery or trying to avoid injuries by not running http://www.primusweb.com/fitnesspartner/library/equipment/elliptical.htm "Researchers at the University of Wisconsin, La Crosse, compared the NordicTrack Ellipse elliptical trainer against a motorized treadmill, a stairstepper, and a cycle ergometer to see how the Ellipse compared with other modes of exercise. The study revealed no significant difference in oxygen consumption, heart rate, and calorie expenditure between treadmill running and the Ellipse. Both the treadmill and Ellipse provided the test subjects with a superior workout over the stairstepper and cycle ergometer." http://www.principalhealthnews.com/topic/elliptical "Even more surprising, most people who use the trainer underestimate their own efforts. In a University of Mississippi study, participants rated their workouts as easier than running on a treadmill, even though measures of their oxygen and heart rate showed they put in the same effort." (Interesting: this is my experience also.) http://www.runnersworld.com/home/0,1300,1-78-79-391-3-4,00.html "I guarantee that if you put in 45 minutes on an elliptical trainer, stationary bike, stairclimber or rowing machine, you will be drenched in sweat. More important, several studies suggest that if you do these aerobic alternatives properly and with high enough intensity, they can maintain and even increase your fitness level." http://www.allnaturalalternatives.com/runner_cross_training.htm "For runners who have suffered overuse injuries, i.e. knee, hip, low back, ankle, Achilles, heel and foot, exercising on an elliptical trainer may be just what the doctor ordered. In the rehabilitation phase of your recovery, these machines can offer a safer, yet excellent ‘training effect.’ I have recommended it to many of my patients and I love to follow my own running with a half hour program on the elliptical." Caveat Emptor: You will not improve your running unless you run. But the elliptical trainer does seem a good option to maintain one’s fitness level when a need to reduce or stop running arises. —

the psychology of returning…

admin — Sun, 20 Apr 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I still ran a bit but nothing steady for years. I was on track for a marathon in 1997 but strained a muscle, then got lazy again. In 1999 I started over, ran a ‘thon in 2000 and two more in 2001 [snip]

Ah, the eternal "on/off" journey. I can see myself heading for a similar destiny Thanks for sharing your story. Quite a bit of up and down there, and see how great you’re doing now. *That* is inspirational! After a couple of months I’d lost about 20 pounds and the woman who’d sold me the membership remarked on the contrast in how energetic I seemed. More motivation!

Reminds me of my gym back in Switzerland – they have this instant motivation device at the entrance… in other words, when you put in your membership chip to enter, your photo is displayed on a screen. And they still have that photo of me when I first joined the gym at something above 200 pounds. Makes me feel very thin and fit every time I go there. God grant me patience, and right now!

Exactly. *g* My most recent discovery in the field of patientology *g* is that there are different kinds of patience – being patient and "strong" on a journey while steadily reaping rewards, without ever questioning the path, is easier (like I did last year when I lost 55 pounds) than finding the way to live that truly works for me, to find out what I want and is good for me rather than what I "should" do. Ah, onwards on my quest. cheers, nina

Response:

Anyhow, you’re doing better than me with your 10 miler. I haven’t been much if any over 10k in the last 2 months.

I dunno. I only ran 6 times in the last 2 weeks… I think the mileage ain’t so much the point, it’s more about the attitude – once it clicks, the mileage goes up all by itself. Question of course is how to make it click. You sound like you yourself don’t *believe* you’re back in the groove. I felt much the same a few weeks ago only I didn’t run at all (maybe twice a week a couple of miles). It’s slowly getting better now that I can feel some fitness return, although I agree about the stubbornness factor. But, if we keep stubborn for long enough, the fitness will return! Keep at it. Good luck on that race! I’m looking forward to the report. And I wish you a "click" soon! cheers, nina

Response:

Some ramblings and I wonder if anyone can relate.

Quite a lot. My versions of the things you mention are proving to be obstacles now. When I re-started and finally made it stick, I got active at ignoring what I used to be able to do (when in high school track). Aside from the reminder that I used to be able to run distance, ignore all details of how much and how fast. I need to work some on that again, in my recovery from the hiatus involved in last November’s flu/broncho-pneumonia and December’s non-running. I can still hit some of the paces, some of the time, but that’s more a matter of stubbornness than fitness. I’m trying to back off that and get reliable about just getting out and covering ground. I _know_ from many prior demonstrations that that’s the most important thing for my health, enjoyment, as well as for race times. Nevertheless, I’ve been out only 7 times in the last 2 weeks. (A lot better than sitting on the couch, but not the 10 I want, and nowehere near the mileage I want — many of those 7 are 30-40 minutes, rather than 50-60.) Just have to keep on with trying to keep at it and nudge the miles and frequency up. In the mean time, maybe Sunday’s 10k race will help motivate me. It’s a fun race, and fun will be my reason for being there. My training is nowhere near being able to race it seriously. The following Sunday I’ll be visiting a friend and running the Flying Pig 10k. Should be fun, and maybe the changes of scenery will help me get over whatever barriers are around. Anyhow, you’re doing better than me with your 10 miler. I haven’t been much if any over 10k in the last 2 months. — Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links. Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

Response:

*gulp* That’s pretty impressive alright. Quite a running history! If I may ask, what made you stop back then?

Laziness, mainly. I’d joined the track team because I was too slow and unskilled for baseball or basketball and too small for football, and I found I was reasonably good at it; but once I got out of high school I found I didn’t motivate myself well, and I didn’t make the cut in college cross country, so I started eating pizza and enjoying more cerebral pursuits. I still ran a bit but nothing steady for years. I was on track for a marathon in 1997 but strained a muscle, then got lazy again. In 1999 I started over, ran a ‘thon in 2000 and two more in 2001, decided I liked not only the fitness but the race experience — lots of other people sharing an interest with me, many of them nice-looking athletic folks in shorts. Now I’m doing a lot better, I’ve lost about 30 pounds and my times are improving beyond where they’ve been the past few years. Part of it was that I joined a gym and had some sessions with a personal trainer. Oh, weight training? I’m wanting to get back into that next week, actually did some during the winter. I’m always amazed what a very positive body feeling it gives me.

We didn’t go specifically into weights much; mainly we talked about nutrition, weight loss, and running-specific workouts such as intervals and core strengthening. After a couple of months I’d lost about 20 pounds and the woman who’d sold me the membership remarked on the contrast in how energetic I seemed. More motivation! Oh, I do. I mean it took a lot more work to get into running in the first place, compared to that, it’s real easy now Patience is a key word – guess now’s the time to learn it.

God grant me patience, and right now! Thanks for the inspirational words, Brian.

You, nina, inspire me. I’m always glad to return the favor. — Brian P. Baresch Fort Worth, Texas, USA Professional editing and proofreading If you’re going through hell, keep going. –Winston Churchill

Response:

I would love to be back in the shape I was last year. I’m also pretty impatient so I found an alternative. If I can’t run my longer races as fast as I could, I want to run shorter distances faster.

Roger, Cool to hear you’ve found your perfect alternative. For myself, this probably wouldn’t work, since I’m really in love with the longer distances. And they won’t let me sleep while there’s still the Big Marathon Mystery waiting for me. cheers, nina

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was tough without the running as a (near) daily regime to keep me positive and dealing with stress well. Fortunately, I’ve learned to love swimming just about as much as running, and THAT kept me sane.

See I started bingeing on chocolate and smoking instead I bet you came out of your break fitter than I did. But, I don’t doubt my return can be quick. Oh, and don’t worry – I’m not planning to give up chocolate… just to get a sensible grip on it I think that stopping running for a while can do the body good.

That’s probably true and a good way of looking at things. I should probably just stop musing over the break and what it gave me and what it took away, and go out and run although today’s a rest day. Damn. Maybe a shorter race now and then along the way will keep you keen and primed. Any other runners you can hook up with for buddy or group runs?

Yeah, there’s actually a few people at school who run, I might hook up with them now and then. Although I really have preferred to run alone in the past, this might make for an interesting change. Thanks for the input, Cam. It’s good to see I’m far from being alone with this. nina

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Yes, you are not alone with these feelings.

Man, that feels good bring on the soul massage. No, serious. Obsession is a weird thing.

You know, I’m beginning to think that the very fact that I did start over proves that running has indeed become part of who I am, and part of how I want to live. Otherwise, it would have been the easiest thing in the world to just quit. Thanks for your words, Joe. nina

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-snip- I keep trying to tell myself this situation is also a gift in a way – I’m able to relive the beginner’s steep improvement curve. On the other hand, I can’t stop wondering where my running skills and endurance would be now had I not stopped. Anyway, I’d be very happy bout some input here. Has anyone been in a similar situation, and how did you deal with it? cheers, nina

nina, I would love to be back in the shape I was last year. I’m also pretty impatient so I found an alternative. If I can’t run my longer races as fast as I could, I want to run shorter distances faster. I’ve learned that with shorter distances you have to do leg exercises to help get your leg speed up. I’m quite a bit faster on some of the hills I used to run. I’m sure I could run 400 meters faster than I ever have if or when I try that, but I also know, as old as I am, I could lose shape again real fast. Tuesday I have a 1 mile time trial. I wonder if I can break 6:15 since that is what I did last year at this time. Thanks, Roger

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Nina, Yes, you are not alone with these feelings. I took the winter off and put 10 lbs back on and was just about back to square one with my fitness when I started up again this year. This year, however, I have started running in March rather than April and am training smarter (following Daniel’s Running Formula) rather than just winging it. I share the same impatience at getting back to last year’s peak. So far I am dealing with my impatience but setting some ambitious goals and thinking about last year’s injury experience that I don’t want to repeat. I feel happy that I am ahead of last year. Plus I am already thinking about next year and how I can minimize my time off during these nasty Northeast winters. Obsession is a weird thing. Good luck!!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some ramblings and I wonder if anyone can relate. Last year (and the year before), every improvement just felt wonderfully precious and wonderful because I was constantly entering new territory. I think that constituted a big part of my positive attitude towards running. Right now, I am happy to improve, I am very happy to have done a 10miler this week, but it’s always got that bitter tinge of "I’m still so far from the shape I was in last year". When I run a 9:30 pace and it feels a bit brisk, instead of just being happy that I’m already running faster than the 10:00 of two weeks ago, I’m just thinking about how soon I can expect to return to the 9:00 easy pace of last year. That’s a main obstacle to getting back into the positive mindset – I don’t yet quite believe in myself as a runner again (which may also be the reason I can’t quite withstand the chocolate yet).

I can relate somewhat, Nina. I had to take a lot of time away from running in early winter due to injuries. I wanted to really let things heal and rest, rather than rush back into it and have problems again. it was tough without the running as a (near) daily regime to keep me positive and dealing with stress well. Fortunately, I’ve learned to love swimming just about as much as running, and THAT kept me sane. Now once I began to re-enter the world of running, I felt like a slug and was kinda down about it. I wasn’t so sure I’d get in shape in time for decent results in my first races of the season. I wasn’t even sure if I’d have the same enthusiasm for running. I was wrong. I keep trying to tell myself this situation is also a gift in a way – I’m able to relive the beginner’s steep improvement curve. On the other hand, I can’t stop wondering where my running skills and endurance would be now had I not stopped. Anyway, I’d be very happy bout some input here. Has anyone been in a similar situation, and how did you deal with it?

I, too, have enjoyed the feeling of working my way back up the ladder. And strangely, on even fewer days of running per week, I have reached a level of running fitness that has, in the past, taken me most of the summer to achieve. Maybe the cross-training? Maybe the fewer, but better-quality, runs are reaping better results due to the greater amount of rest and rebuilding time for the running muscles? Whatever the case, I have seen gradual improvement, and have gotten to where I wanted to be (or better). You can get back there, too, Nina, if you really want it. Don’t give up the chocolate altogether… that would rob you of one of the rewards that you’ll need after a particularly hard run. We need a treat now and then to feel good about ourselves. Deprivation doesn’t make a happy person. I think that stopping running for a while can do the body good. Running every day for years just doesn’t sound right to me. I know some folks (some in this ng, I believe) have done that… fine. But I know that my body begins to wear down and break down with that much of the same repetitive movements. And it can get boring, no matter how much you love the sport. To deal with the doubts, I began to set goals for myself again. It was nice to be "goal-less" for a while, and just go out and run, no time goals or anything, nothing to distract me from just running and enjoying the scenery. But eventually, when you want to see greater results and get back to fighting shape, some harder work is in order, and it’s difficult to maintain THAT kind of regimen without some clear goals in mind. Sounds like you are on the right track with a half marathon in mind this summer. Maybe a shorter race now and then along the way will keep you keen and primed. Any other runners you can hook up with for buddy or group runs? Just some thoughts… hope they help. Cam

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I’ve found the only hard part is when I start again. I get tired so easily but after a while it all comes together and I’m back to where I was.

Doug, I’ve gotta agree that it was much harder 4 weeks or so ago when I was stumbling around doing 2-3 miles then being totally worn down. Right now I’m already feeling very dedicated and happy again about running. 17 miles ain’t 34, but it’s a serious start. I think taking a significant break now and again is a good thing. It positions one better to make running part of a lifestyle habit that will likely be around 20 years from now.

Hey, thanks for this input. You know, it hadn’t even occurred to me to see my "time-out" as a good thing! 4-5 months is probably a bit much for a break, but I restarted now that I felt the urge again, and man, it sure is a good feeling that this urge did come through! cheers, nina

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1)I developed a wide variety of running loops with varying terrain so that I was almost never doing the same type of run twice in a week. Before long, my mind stopped comparing how I felt at 9:00 pace during a run because this run was hilly and yesterday was not, etc.

I do vary my routes right now, in fact I am pretty excited about trying out different loops (also because I still don’t know all the parts of my new city so very well). I got stuck running the same two routes over and over last year, which didn’t feel too exciting anymore after a while. 2)I shortened my goal horizon artificially by entering some shorter races so I could simply monitor progress toward getting ready for a 5K in 4 weeks instead of looking at the huge 16-18 week stretch until marathon.

Interesting. I’ve been wondering whether or not it’d be a good idea to race. I’m feeling pretty shy about entering a race right now – I can’t tell if it’d be a good feeling (as in, I’M BACK) or a bad one (as in, I’M SO MUCH SLOWER THAN I USED TO BE)… also because racing really isn’t such a widespread activity round here and almost everyone who races is a "serious" runner who belongs to some club or other, so it’s real easy to come in last. 3)time passed and because it apparently takes less time to get back into good running fitness after a break than it took the first time (or last time), before long I was past that demoralized feeling and clicking along and feeling stronger.

It does, doesn’t it? I was amazed today that I could still run a couple of good sub 9:00s and not throw up. I’ve also returned to a halfway decent mileage sooner than I figured. So, yup, it is a steep curve, and that’s the nice part. 4)I tried to keep in mind that by taking some time off, I almost certainly avoided some kind of overtraining injury or burnout.

Thank you – that’s like the bingo input. YES, I WAS BURNING OUT. Yes, apart from being stressed out, apart from life getting in the way, apart from other stuff taking precedence, I was getting a bit fed up, I guess. Or, running didn’t feel so very precious and important anymore. Now, it does, again, and seen that way, I actually got something very positive out of that downtime: the will to run again, and the love for this wonderful sport. And, I’ve got all my life to run, so what’s a few months that I didn’t, if they made me continue… Thanks, again, Chris. I’m getting more and more excited about this 26.2 idea. cheers, nina

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nina: I can sure relate. In high school I ran a 9:48 2-mile and a 4:29 1500 and given the chance could probably have knocked out a 17:00 5K. Even after a few months of laziness I ran a 10K in 38:33.

*gulp* That’s pretty impressive alright. Quite a running history! If I may ask, what made you stop back then? Now I’m doing a lot better, I’ve lost about 30 pounds and my times are improving beyond where they’ve been the past few years. Part of it was that I joined a gym and had some sessions with a personal trainer.

Oh, weight training? I’m wanting to get back into that next week, actually did some during the winter. I’m always amazed what a very positive body feeling it gives me. So yes, it’s tough going over the same ground again and again. Eventually you get to new territory. It just takes patience. You can do it, we both know you can. Just accept that there’s work involved.

Oh, I do. I mean it took a lot more work to get into running in the first place, compared to that, it’s real easy now Patience is a key word – guess now’s the time to learn it. Thanks for the inspirational words, Brian. nina

Response:

Hey Nina! I think we’ve all been there. When one gets out of shape due to obligations or laziness or some combination thereof and, after a few months, we begin to run again, we naturally use our previous fitness level as a barometer as to how we are doing. I’ve found the only hard part is when I start again. I get tired so easily but after a while it all comes together and I’m back to where I was. I think taking a significant break now and again is a good thing. It positions one better to make running part of a lifestyle habit that will likely be around 20 years from now. Doug Burke – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some ramblings and I wonder if anyone can relate. Last year (and the year before), every improvement just felt wonderfully precious and wonderful because I was constantly entering new territory. I think that constituted a big part of my positive attitude towards running. Right now, I am happy to improve, I am very happy to have done a 10miler this week, but it’s always got that bitter tinge of "I’m still so far from the shape I was in last year". When I run a 9:30 pace and it feels a bit brisk, instead of just being happy that I’m already running faster than the 10:00 of two weeks ago, I’m just thinking about how soon I can expect to return to the 9:00 easy pace of last year. That’s a main obstacle to getting back into the positive mindset – I don’t yet quite believe in myself as a runner again (which may also be the reason I can’t quite withstand the chocolate yet). I keep trying to tell myself this situation is also a gift in a way – I’m able to relive the beginner’s steep improvement curve. On the other hand, I can’t stop wondering where my running skills and endurance would be now had I not stopped. Anyway, I’d be very happy bout some input here. Has anyone been in a similar situation, and how did you deal with it? cheers, nina

Response:

nina: I can sure relate. In high school I ran a 9:48 2-mile and a 4:29 1500 and given the chance could probably have knocked out a 17:00 5K. Even after a few months of laziness I ran a 10K in 38:33. So nowadays I’m real slow by comparison. More recently I was doing one or two ‘thons a year and feeling good about my fitness relative to my age. Then last year I didn’t train over the winter and got slow again — my 5K went from 22:30 to 23:35 and I was feeling frustrated. Eventually I got burned out and took two months off. By the time I felt I needed to get back in shape, my 10K was over 55 minutes. Bleah! Now I’m doing a lot better, I’ve lost about 30 pounds and my times are improving beyond where they’ve been the past few years. Part of it was that I joined a gym and had some sessions with a personal trainer. I’m working harder to take care of myself too. It felt great watching my race times approach, and then pass, last year’s and the year before’s. That’s been my motivation. Now I sort-of have the idea that I’m gonna catch up to a local runner who often wins her age group in local 5Ks. Even if I don’t — it’d mean shaving another 2-plus minutes off my time — It’s something to shoot for. So yes, it’s tough going over the same ground again and again. Eventually you get to new territory. It just takes patience. You can do it, we both know you can. Just accept that there’s work involved. Good luck! — Brian P. Baresch Fort Worth, Texas, USA Professional editing and proofreading If you’re going through hell, keep going. –Winston Churchill

Response:

Nina, last year I took off from running for almost two months due to preparations for moving to a new town; as a result, I lost some of my conditioning and had a long climb back (pun intended, as you will see) to get ready for a marathon in the fall. At first I did find it demoralizing to be slower and in less shape for hard running at distance. But four things helped me and perhaps would help you: 1)I developed a wide variety of running loops with varying terrain so that I was almost never doing the same type of run twice in a week. Before long, my mind stopped comparing how I felt at 9:00 pace during a run because this run was hilly and yesterday was not, etc. 2)I shortened my goal horizon artificially by entering some shorter races so I could simply monitor progress toward getting ready for a 5K in 4 weeks instead of looking at the huge 16-18 week stretch until marathon. 3)time passed and because it apparently takes less time to get back into good running fitness after a break than it took the first time (or last time), before long I was past that demoralized feeling and clicking along and feeling stronger. 4)I tried to keep in mind that by taking some time off, I almost certainly avoided some kind of overtraining injury or burnout. Good luck, just keep going. Chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some ramblings and I wonder if anyone can relate. Last year (and the year before), every improvement just felt wonderfully precious and wonderful because I was constantly entering new territory. I think that constituted a big part of my positive attitude towards running. Right now, I am happy to improve, I am very happy to have done a 10miler this week, but it’s always got that bitter tinge of "I’m still so far from the shape I was in last year". When I run a 9:30 pace and it feels a bit brisk, instead of just being happy that I’m already running faster than the 10:00 of two weeks ago, I’m just thinking about how soon I can expect to return to the 9:00 easy pace of last year. That’s a main obstacle to getting back into the positive mindset – I don’t yet quite believe in myself as a runner again (which may also be the reason I can’t quite withstand the chocolate yet). I keep trying to tell myself this situation is also a gift in a way – I’m able to relive the beginner’s steep improvement curve. On the other hand, I can’t stop wondering where my running skills and endurance would be now had I not stopped. Anyway, I’d be very happy bout some input here. Has anyone been in a similar situation, and how did you deal with it? cheers, nina

Response:

Some ramblings and I wonder if anyone can relate. Last year (and the year before), every improvement just felt wonderfully precious and wonderful because I was constantly entering new territory. I think that constituted a big part of my positive attitude towards running. Right now, I am happy to improve, I am very happy to have done a 10miler this week, but it’s always got that bitter tinge of "I’m still so far from the shape I was in last year". When I run a 9:30 pace and it feels a bit brisk, instead of just being happy that I’m already running faster than the 10:00 of two weeks ago, I’m just thinking about how soon I can expect to return to the 9:00 easy pace of last year. That’s a main obstacle to getting back into the positive mindset – I don’t yet quite believe in myself as a runner again (which may also be the reason I can’t quite withstand the chocolate yet). I keep trying to tell myself this situation is also a gift in a way – I’m able to relive the beginner’s steep improvement curve. On the other hand, I can’t stop wondering where my running skills and endurance would be now had I not stopped. Anyway, I’d be very happy bout some input here. Has anyone been in a similar situation, and how did you deal with it? cheers, nina

Response:

running -> lower calf pain

admin — Sun, 20 Apr 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Would appreciate any comments that anybody can make! I’ve recently started running on the running machine at a local gym, starting at 4km, working up to 5 and then after some weeks I dropped the speed down a bit and have managed five or so hour (8km) runs — I find the slower pace allows me to keep going. During the second-to-last run, I put the incline up slightly on the machine, and noticed a niggling feeling in my left calf. Over the last run today, the niggling feeling turned into a dull pain — quite slight, but it’s got a little (not much) worse over the day today since the run this morning. The pain isn’t acute (yet?), but localised within the muscle just below my calf or in the very lower part of my calf. QUESTION: What is this most likey to be, and what should I be doing to not make it worse? I’d like to keep on with the running! I assume this is a sprained or stressed lower-calf injury, however slight, and that I should take it easy at the next run and stop if I begin to notice the pain setting in. Also, I should be taking more time than I’m taking to stretch before running (heard that before?), especially the calf area but also archilles. What about running on machines vs. running on ground/road/grass/up+down hills? I’d like to build up to runs of around three hours/30KM. TIA for any thoughts, perspectives, experiences, etc.! Best wishes Robin

Response:

Would appreciate any comments that anybody can make!

Yes – you added an incline and your calf muscles/tendons started to hurt. I’d take this seriously, go back to flat running or no running at all until you don’t feel the pain any longer, then introduce hills in the way the occur in natural – for short amounts of time. You can make them longer as you get used to running uphill. Could be muscles, could be Achilles tendon, could even be plantar fascia. Stretch your calves regularly after running, especially when you do hills. Try to end the run on a flat section for enough time to allow things to return to normal. 8km/hour is about 5 miles/hour, which is about 12 minutes per mile, which is very slow – I can walk that fast. Even if you can’t run non-stop, I would not do the bulk of my running this slowly. Do shorter runs then do a one-hour run once per week, no more often, for now at least. 20-40 minutes for a regular run is fine, stopping and starting is fine, varying the pace is great. Outside is better than a treadmill in every way possible, save the ability to run a precise speed over constant terrain, a useless skill if you ask me. -S- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve recently started running on the running machine at a local gym, starting at 4km, working up to 5 and then after some weeks I dropped the speed down a bit and have managed five or so hour (8km) runs — I find the slower pace allows me to keep going. During the second-to-last run, I put the incline up slightly on the machine, and noticed a niggling feeling in my left calf. Over the last run today, the niggling feeling turned into a dull pain — quite slight, but it’s got a little (not much) worse over the day today since the run this morning. The pain isn’t acute (yet?), but localised within the muscle just below my calf or in the very lower part of my calf. QUESTION: What is this most likey to be, and what should I be doing to not make it worse? I’d like to keep on with the running! I assume this is a sprained or stressed lower-calf injury, however slight, and that I should take it easy at the next run and stop if I begin to notice the pain setting in. Also, I should be taking more time than I’m taking to stretch before running (heard that before?), especially the calf area but also archilles. What about running on machines vs. running on ground/road/grass/up+down hills? I’d like to build up to runs of around three hours/30KM. TIA for any thoughts, perspectives, experiences, etc.! Best wishes Robin

Response:

[ good stuff snipped for brevity ] Outside is better than a treadmill in every way possible, save the ability to run a precise speed over constant terrain, a useless skill if you ask me.

The main advantage of the treadmill is convenience. It is useful if it is too cold or dark unsafe to run outside. The treadmill will not help you pace yourself IMO (I find my ability to pace myself is shot after a few weeks of treadmill running), though it will help ensure that your workouts go at the right pace. Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

You need to do some reading on running injuries and try to work out what it is. Apply the appropriate treatment for that injury (tendon injuries usually require ice, for example) It’s hard to tell from your description. Over the last run today, the niggling feeling turned into a dull pain — quite slight, but it’s got a little (not much) worse over the day today since the run this morning.

Stop running for a couple of days, then you’ll need to re-evaluate your program when you return. In fact it might be a good idea to do some sort of other exercise instead (like the bike or elliptical) for the next week or so. What is this most likey to be, and what should I be doing to not make it worse? I’d like to keep on with the running!

Don’t run on an incline. Beware of overly cushioned treadmills. I assume this is a sprained or stressed lower-calf injury, however slight, and that I should take it easy at the next run and stop if I begin to notice the pain setting in. Also, I should be taking more time than I’m taking to stretch before running (heard that before?), especially the calf area but also archilles.

You can’t stretch tendons. Stretching your calves is a good idea, but I doubt that doing the stretching before a run will help besides providing general flexibility benefits What about running on machines vs. running on ground/road/grass/up+down hills?

Running on treadmills is fine if you can take the boredom. Different treadmills have different levels of shock absorbtion, like different running surfaces. Really soft surfaces put more stress on your calves (for example, running on the beach). Really hard surfaces increase the stress on your knees. Running uphills puts more stress on your calves and achilles tendons, and running downhill puts more stress on your knees. For you I’d suggest running on a firm surface and avoiding steep inclines (up or downhill) I’d like to build up to runs of around three hours/30KM.

Runs of this duration are rare even among well trained marathon runners. The usual "long run" is of 1 hour to 2 hours duration (closer to 2 hours with more experienced runners) Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

I’ve recently started running on the running machine at a local gym, starting at 4km, working up to 5 and then after some weeks I dropped the speed down a bit and have managed five or so hour (8km) runs — I find the slower pace allows me to keep going. I’d like to build up to runs of around three hours/30KM. Runs of this duration are rare even among well trained marathon runners. The usual "long run" is of 1 hour to 2 hours duration (closer to 2 hours with more experienced runners)

For marathon training at the paces this person is describing, three hours is pretty reasonable – that’s < 15 miles. For an every other week run in the months before a marathon, perfectly good goal to build up to. If the goal is to improve in general running fitness, I agree with you; better to do more 1.5-2 hour long runs and not destroy yourself with a 3 hour run. -Dave — work: dga – at – lcs.mit.edu me: angio – at – pobox.com MIT Laboratory for Computer Science http://www.angio.net/ (note that my reply-to address is vaguely despammed…) bulk emailers: I do not accept unsolicited email. Do not mail me.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would appreciate any comments that anybody can make! I’ve recently started running on the running machine at a local gym, starting at 4km, working up to 5 and then after some weeks I dropped the speed down a bit and have managed five or so hour (8km) runs — I find the slower pace allows me to keep going. During the second-to-last run, I put the incline up slightly on the machine, and noticed a niggling feeling in my left calf. Over the last run today, the niggling feeling turned into a dull pain — quite slight, but it’s got a little (not much) worse over the day today since the run this morning. The pain isn’t acute (yet?), but localised within the muscle just below my calf or in the very lower part of my calf.

Not to sound smart, but are you waiting for it to become acute? Injuries are tricky and can’t be diagnosed via the internet. If they could, that would put the medical profession pretty much out of business. QUESTION: What is this most likey to be, and what should I be doing to not make it worse? I’d like to keep on with the running!

Difficult if not impossible to tell without a proper diagnosis. Keep running? Well let me see… It’s RICE (REST Incline Compression and Elevation)…the key is REST… just remember they work as a coherant element – not pick and choose the one’s you want do… that may not work (uh, it probably will not work is more correct). So, keep running… doesn’t sound like rest to me. I assume this is a sprained or stressed lower-calf injury, however slight, and that I should take it easy at the next run and stop if I begin to notice the pain setting in. Also, I should be taking more time than I’m taking to stretch before running (heard that before?), especially the calf area but also archilles.

Assumptions are dangerous. If you think it is insignificant… then just RICE. It that doesn’t work… then see a physician. Stretching warming up are good solutions to preventing injury. You already have an injury… Stretching could be compounding the problem. Warming up – well, that’s not rest (now is it). What about running on machines vs. running on ground/road/grass/up+down hills?

Might work… what’s your base training level? What your Max. HR. or VO2 max.? What your orignal standard for effort (i.e., HR) for constant activity ratio? As you can, specific training regimen (in and of itself) is not the defining element for improvement. I’d like to build up to runs of around three hours/30KM. TIA for any thoughts, perspectives, experiences, etc.! Best wishes Robin

If you want to build up to faster and better runs… you need to learn the value of rest. Most improvement occurs with recovery. Recovery is the least understood and most underestimated part of training. Good Luck FWIW Joe Moya

Response:

One word… Yoga.

Two words… is pointless. Roger.

Response:

163600.news.dfncis.de: One word… Yoga. Two words… is pointless. Roger.

Can either of you string a few more words together to justify your positions?

Response:

Try a spinning class at your local gym. Spinning can do wonders for minor pains in the lower leg, and serves as a respectable complement to running.

Response:

One word… Yoga. Two words… is pointless. Can either of you string a few more words together to justify your positions?

Not me. My distrust of Yoga is based on a deep loathing of all four-letter words that start with the letter "Y". Roger.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One word… Yoga. Two words… is pointless. Can either of you string a few more words together to justify your positions? Not me. My distrust of Yoga is based on a deep loathing of all four-letter words that start with the letter "Y". Roger.

Hmmm… Yarn? Yank – OK, this is justified Yoda – I kinda like the guy! Yo-yo? York? Yams? Yipe? Your? Yerk – "jerk" with a swedish acent

Response:

Hmmm… Yarn? Yank – OK, this is justified Yoda – I kinda like the guy! Yo-yo? York? Yams? Yipe? Your? Yerk – "jerk" with a swedish acent

Aaargh! Stop it! I hate them all! Roger.

Response:

Hi folks. Firstly, thanks for all the replies — all useful perspectives on my situation. Thanks for taking the time to provide them. Reconsidering, I should have been more accurate in my initial post, and more structured. As is often the case, this becomes more obvious when considering the replies! Responding to each in turn … Regards Robin You need to do some reading on running injuries and try to work out what it is. Apply the appropriate treatment for that injury (tendon injuries usually require ice, for example) It’s hard to tell from your description.

I don’t think it’s the tendon, but can’t be sure. Today, it’s almost gone, so the amount of damage may not be that great. Stop running for a couple of days, then you’ll need to re-evaluate your program when you return. In fact it might be a good idea to do some sort of other exercise instead (like the bike or elliptical) for the next week or so.

This was my default position. I’m giving it a rest, and the next run will be shorter and better prepared in terms of stretching. Don’t run on an incline. Beware of overly cushioned treadmills.

OK. For the sake of interest, why avoid an incline? Are you saying avoid inclines while the injury is present, in general, or just on treadmills? You can’t stretch tendons. Stretching your calves is a good idea, but I doubt that doing the stretching before a run will help besides providing general flexibility benefits

I figured I’ll pay more attention to stretching my calves as they’ve probably contracted somewhat since I’ve been doing the longer runs. Running on treadmills is fine if you can take the boredom.

Yes, it is very much a mental challenge. It’s inconvenient for me to run outside at the moment, but this should change in the coming months. Different treadmills have different levels of shock absorbtion, like different running surfaces. Really soft surfaces put more stress on your calves (for example, running on the beach). Really hard surfaces increase the stress on your knees. Running uphills puts more stress on your calves and achilles tendons, and running downhill puts more stress on your knees.

All good stuff. I’ll try the treadmill on 0.00 incline. It’s not too soft or too hard (well, seemingly … ). For you I’d suggest running on a firm surface and avoiding steep inclines (up or downhill)

Will bear this in mind. I’d like to build up to runs of around three hours/30KM. Runs of this duration are rare even among well trained marathon runners. The usual "long run" is of 1 hour to 2 hours duration (closer to 2 hours with more experienced runners)

Maybe this is where it would be good for me to talk about goals. [background, for what it's worth -- ignore as required!] I’m 175cm (5′8"?) and about 96kg (down from 100kg six weeks ago). My estimation is that I should be 85-90kg — I’ve got quite hefty legs, and am generally stocky. I eat a healthy diet. I used to do sprint triathlons, sea swims, duathlons, etc. Just short stuff. Not competitively — purely on a fitness and self-development basis. My real strength is swimming — 5/6 times per week, 1.5km-3km per swim, mixing it up a lot (freestyle, fly, etc.). What I’d like to do is reach a level of fitness where I can pace myself through and enjoy a 20-30km run without stressing my knees (formerly the source of aches and pains, but not injury as such). Possibly the result of some strengthening (targeted weights) of the muscles around them, the knees are much better now and don’t give me any trouble. I might look at a half-marathon, but just as an achievable goal rather than something I have to complete within X time or bust. I’d ideally like to combine running and swimming with X-country skiing in Winter, but that’s a bit in the future … (location-wise). On to the other responses … thanks Donovan. Cheers Robin

Response:

The main advantage of the treadmill is convenience. It is useful if it is too cold or dark unsafe to run outside.

Yes this is the correct background. The treadmill will not help you pace yourself IMO (I find my ability to pace myself is shot after a few weeks of treadmill running), though it will help ensure that your workouts go at the right pace.

This is interesting. One thing I initially found about the treadmill is that it helped me pace myself. This will need to be compared again with some outdoor running pretty soon. The paced outdoor running is the goal anyway :O) Cheers Robin

Response:

Not to sound smart, but are you waiting for it to become acute?

:O) A thoughtful question. No, I’m not one to hammer away at such injuries, small as they may be, until I’m lame or need sticks to walk. Injuries are tricky and can’t be diagnosed via the internet. If they could, that would put the medical profession pretty much out of business.

Good point! There is a lot of useful information out there, but no substitute for knowledge and experience on the spot. There is a range of skill in this area though, even amongst "qualified professionals" :O) Difficult if not impossible to tell without a proper diagnosis. Keep running? Well let me see… It’s RICE (REST Incline Compression and Elevation)…the key is REST… just remember they work as a coherant element – not pick and choose the one’s you want do… that may not work (uh, it probably will not work is more correct). So, keep running… doesn’t sound like rest to me.

Apologies –I didn’t give enough information. I’m running three times per week or so, and today the pain is pretty much gone. I know this doesn’t mean much right now, as if I went out for a run today, I’d probably find myself in the same situation (or worse) as yesterday. What I plan to do is wait another day, then do a shorter run without incline, and stop at the slightest hint that something’s not right (could be less than pain … for example, tightening in the area where there was pain). Assumptions are dangerous. If you think it is insignificant… then just RICE. It that doesn’t work… then see a physician. Stretching warming up are good solutions to preventing injury. You already have an injury… Stretching could be compounding the problem. Warming up – well, that’s not rest (now is it).

I think it’s a matter of degree of rest required with this injury. Might work… what’s your base training level? What your Max. HR. or VO2 max.?

Don’t know about VO2 max, but max HR is around 185. What your orignal standard for effort (i.e., HR) for constant activity ratio?

Don’t know — how to measure this? At rest it’s 47/48. If you want to build up to faster and better runs… you need to learn the value of rest. Most improvement occurs with recovery. Recovery is the least understood and most underestimated part of training.

Noted. Thanks Joe. Robin

Response:

Thanks for this Dave. I’ve scaled back to the 1.5-2 hour length for now as you’ve suggested as when I’m there I will then have more data/exp/etc. to make a my decision as to whether I go further from there. Cheers Robin

Response:

You’ve obviously missed the point of yoga. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One word… Yoga. Two words… is pointless. Can either of you string a few more words together to justify your positions? Not me. My distrust of Yoga is based on a deep loathing of all four-letter words that start with the letter "Y". Roger.

Response:

Spinning is useless waste of time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try a spinning class at your local gym. Spinning can do wonders for minor pains in the lower leg, and serves as a respectable complement to running.

Response:

You’ve obviously missed the point of yoga.

Which is, ecce?

Response:

Spinning is useless waste of time.

What would you suggest insead Steve (just asking!). TIA Robin

Response:

Snip Might work… what’s your base training level? What your Max. HR. or VO2 max.? Don’t know about VO2 max, but max HR is around 185.

That’s a good start (knowing your Max HR – provided it’s accurate)… to build a base you should keep your HR at or about 70-75 (for some 80% is acceptable – but, not likely good for 95% of athletes). Stay at that HR for longer periods of time… that sometimes referred to as volume building. Now… before you say what almost everyone else notes…yes, it will feel like your not working out. That is correct, you are not breaking down tissue to the point that recovery is slow. The key is to stay at a low HR for longer periods of time (called aerobic training). Fatique comes from depletion of oxygen stores in the muscle group…NOT, breaking down of muscle tissue with oxygen depletion (called anaerobic training). Anaerobic training occurs at higher HR’s (80-85% of Max HR). That should be done sparingly. And rest (even if you feel you don’t need it) should follow. Continuing to train after aerobic training is usually when injuries occure. What your orignal standard for effort (i.e., HR) for constant activity ratio? Don’t know — how to measure this? At rest it’s 47/48.

This has nothing to do with resting HR. What I’m describing is a standard to determine improvement. Improvement comes with increasing intensity with less effort. For example, Run a 1 mile course and note the time and your average HR (note: you need a HRM – if you don’t have, you need to get one). Of course, any distance besides 1 mile can be choosen – longer distance benchmarks usually require longer running courses. This course needs to be on a track (preferably an indoor track) or in any enviroment that is CONSTANT (both in distance, location, ran at same time of day, temperature, wind, humidity etc.) Take the time ran and divide it by the Average HR for the distance ran. This is the ratio I described. As you improve you will be able to run the same distance with a faster time AND WITH A LOWER AVERAGE HR. Without the lower average HR for same constant distance, you are not improving regardless of your run time. The key is to run efficiently not just fast. Efficiency in running skills are determined by how large of an aerobic base you have. How fast you run is determined by how much pain (and how fast you can recover) you can endure. Eventually, you will find that base building is the key… not how much anaerobic (high HR) workout you can endure. No pain, no gain training is a fallacy. This method can be used for swimming, biking or any aerobic sport. If you want to build up to faster and better runs… you need to learn the value of rest. Most improvement occurs with recovery. Recovery is the least understood and most underestimated part of training. Noted. Thanks Joe. Robin

Hope this helps… BTW, efficiency of aerobic capacity is much more crucial for multi-sport and endurance sport athletes. Joe Moya

Response:

Roger, how are those sphicter muscles after Bill fucked you?

Response:

Roger, how are those sphicter muscles after Bill fucked you?

Terribly sore. And yours? Roger.

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The stillpoint. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’ve obviously missed the point of yoga. Which is, ecce?

Response:

Hope this helps… BTW, efficiency of aerobic capacity is much more crucial for multi-sport and endurance sport athletes.

Thanks Joe for the useful info. Looking at getting a HR monitor now … :O) Cheers Robin

Response:

Newbie training for marathon in October?

admin — Mon, 10 Feb 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I have recently begun running, and I enjoy it so much that I would like to run a Marathon. The Portland Marathon is in October, so I was thinking that could be my first. I am in OK shake, and I am getting to the point that I can run for 20minutes without stopping. Is this enough time to train for a Marathon starting from almost nothing??

Response:

Yeah, you’re all set there numbnutz! (christ sakes, two idiots in one night) Bill R.

Response:

Nice,…you sound just like I did last September or late August. I started to run and then quickly lost focus due to not really having a good reason to do it, at least on days when I didn’t really feel like it. I saw a local group was starting up a Marathon training program which lasted for 5 months, so I figured I’d set myself a lofty challenge (something I rarely had done) and, at the same time, I made a tangible goal that I could strive for over a long period of time. I went from being in "ok" shape last fall (10k in about 56 mins, wanting to die) to recently just running a 20 mile training run (fairly hilly), with a nasty cold, at a 9 minute per mile pace, with very low effort, not even tired afterwards…it’s an awesome feeling! (I was somewhat athletic and quite trim before even starting, for what it’s worth) You got about 9 months to go,..plenty of time if this is really what you want to shoot for. Probably a good idea to spend the first 3-4 months building a solid base of easy running, mostly just to get your body used to the new activity, and it certainly wouldn’t hurt to drop a few pounds, if you need / would like to at this time. It’s harder on your body than many people realize. After that, plan on following a good beginner’s marathon training program for the remaining 5-6 months or so. Get some good running shoes, preferably professionally fitted from a true running store early on! I picked out some shoes on my own early in my training,…I loved them to death, but they were bad for me, and caused some scary injuries…lacking pronation support that I needed and I had no idea when I bought them. Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com – Still Only $9.95 – http://www.uncensored-news.com <<<<<<< The Worlds Uncensored News Source <<<<<<<<

Response:

Do you have any experience running races ? Are you planning on making a marathon your first race ? Why not instead spend some time building up to a good level of fitness, running some shorter races, and then preparing for a marathon once you already have a solid foundation (race experience, weekly milage, and general fitness) ? The problem with preparing for a marathon as a beginner is that most beginners want to run fast all (or a lot of) the time, have fun, and inevitably run a lot of PRs — which is at odds with the goal of preparing for a marathon. On the other hand, entering short races more frequently is more likely to be fun, as well as satisfying the need of the curious beginner to push him/herself to see what s/he is capable of. Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

Without knowing your fitness history and considering your stated running fitness level, I’d say it’s doubtful you have enough time to train to do much more than "finish" the marathon through a combination of walking and running. There are exceptions, but there’s a reason that word exists. If you’re determined to do it, do so with your eyes wide open: you have an above average chance of injury during either long-run training or the marathon itself. It just takes–for most people–some time, often more than a year, to build the endurance and physical toughness that you’ll need to "run" a marathon. Nothing wrong with setting such a goal for yourself–I can relate. Get some good running shoes. Read as much as you can–about the marathon, not just about running in general. Have you thought about setting some interim goals, such as running a 10K race or two in the spring, maybe a half-marathon next fall, and then if you’re still interested a marathon sometime in early 2004? Good luck. You might consider providing additional info here about your age, fitness or athletic history, and any factors that bear on your ability to devote time to training. Chris

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Theoretically, yes. In reality, who knows. You’ll need to gradually increase your weekly mileage over the next 6 months or so. Your longest race distance should be one that you can "jog" continuously, albeit slowly in training, and still be recovered enough to run again in a couple of days. If you can only do this for 13.1 miles, then you’re longest race should be a half-marathon. If you can’t get to the point where 20+ mile runs are something you can easily do on a weekly basis, then you have no business entering a marathon. If you can barely walk the day after doing doing 20 miles at a 10 minute per mile pace, then your condition can only be far worse the day after you do 26.2 miles at a 9 minute-per-mile pace.

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listen, nobody.. and I mean nobody can tell you (accept for yourself) if you can or can’t run A Marathon at all. What I want to say to you is that the only person who must find out and feel for himself is you? Confused? Talk to people who already ran some(in real life) see how they live, run, eat, work train ect, ect. Running a Marathon has nothing to do with "just running one" , it is a way of live and you must find out for yourself if you are willing to do that, and than you come back to this place and tell us if you are able (or not ) to run one. I want to apologise for my bad english because it is the first time i wrote something in this forum. Jur – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have recently begun running, and I enjoy it so much that I would like to run a Marathon. The Portland Marathon is in October, so I was thinking that could be my first. I am in OK shake, and I am getting to the point that I can run for 20minutes without stopping. Is this enough time to train for a Marathon starting from almost nothing?? Theoretically, yes. In reality, who knows. You’ll need to gradually increase your weekly mileage over the next 6 months or so. Your longest race distance should be one that you can "jog" continuously, albeit slowly in training, and still be recovered enough to run again in a couple of days. If you can only do this for 13.1 miles, then you’re longest race should be a half-marathon. If you can’t get to the point where 20+ mile runs are something you can easily do on a weekly basis, then you have no business entering a marathon. If you can barely walk the day after doing doing 20 miles at a 10 minute per mile pace, then your condition can only be far worse the day after you do 26.2 miles at a 9 minute-per-mile pace.

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Wrong. He obviously does not have the running experience to make this decision. That alone says he is not ready. Bill R.

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Thank you for all the suggestions. I guess i’ll just continue to train at my current pace, and hopefully I will be ready for a Marathon come next October. If not, then I will do the half and plan on another in January or February. Thanks again! -Jacoby

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Both much better options than getting permanently hurt. Cheers! Bill R.

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Let me take the long view here. You’ve just started running. You really enjoy it. Natural human tendencies are to think about the possibilities and potential of your new found endeavor. You think big. You think Marathon. While these thoughts have merit and demand respect, statistics show of new runners (less than 12 months running) who run a marathon, 12 months after the race most are not running at all. I know, you’ll ask me to site the sources but I don’t have them here but I could find them (I’m not though). I’m just recalling what I’ve read but let me say it this way: There are generally two types of runners, life style runners and goal runners. Many times these people are one and the same (I’m one for example) but most of these became life style runners and THEN became goal runners. Some of these do this in a short time. Goal oriented runners run hard, reach there goal, and most (but not all) are on to other things. Life style oriented runners have running as part of a lifestyle and then incorporate goals within that lifestyle. With that said, sure, you could train for and run marathon by October. But I would recommend spending this year running 15-20 miles per week, enter 5 or 10k’s. Develop a life style, where after a while a week seems strange without at least 12-15 miles (and believe me, these happen, vacations, work, real life stuff, etc). In a few years, go for the big one. By that time after the euphoria of the race has subsided, you’ll still be out there, maybe preparing for another 26.2 but almost certainly doing 20 miles for that week. It’s a great sport to mature in. Don’t take it too fast. It’s a little bit like us adults telling a 14 year old to enjoy the teenage years but they all want that drivers license, an apartment, independence, etc. Just take the adventure slow. But good luck no matter what you decide. Doug Burke – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have recently begun running, and I enjoy it so much that I would like to run a Marathon. The Portland Marathon is in October, so I was thinking that could be my first. I am in OK shake, and I am getting to the point that I can run for 20minutes without stopping. Is this enough time to train for a Marathon starting from almost nothing??

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For some bodies half that time would be enough, for other bodies twice that time would not be enough. Build up your training gradually and find out what your body’s capabilities. My personal advice would be to put some effort into losing weight early on, unless you are already thin. I reckon this must increase your body’s chance of coping with training. Andrew Taylor

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Dear Mr R, You are "obviously" right, but my answer is not wrong. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – listen, nobody.. and I mean nobody can tell you (accept for yourself) if you can or can’t run A Marathon at all. What I want to say to you is that the only person who must find out and feel for himself is you? Wrong. He obviously does not have the running experience to make this decision. That alone says he is not ready. Bill R.

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It’s called the "fever." While these thoughts have merit and demand respect, statistics show of new runners (less than 12 months running) who run a marathon, 12 months after the race most are not running at all.

Right on. The stat that sticks in my mind from some years back is approximately 50% of the runners that start training for a marathon do not make it to the starting line. Injuries and burnout(long runs)are the two big hitters. I can’t site the source either but 18 years of running experience says it right on. When you slice these numbers even closer, the percent of runners that attempt a marathon in their first year, the failure rate is even higher. [good observations snipped for brevity] With that said, sure, you could train for and run marathon by October. But I would recommend spending this year running 15-20 miles per week, enter 5 or 10k’s. Develop a life style, where after a while a week seems strange without at least 12-15 miles (and believe me, these happen, vacations, work, real life stuff, etc). In a few years, go for the big one. By that time after the euphoria of the race has subsided, you’ll still be out there, maybe preparing for another 26.2 but almost certainly doing 20 miles for that week.

Agree 150%. The most aggressive I would suggest would be to aim at 10 miler. Spend a year or so to find out your running strengths and weaknesses. The D & D school of start slow and last forever. — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

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You are "obviously" right, but my answer is not wrong.

True. Bill R.

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Jacoby, http://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/index.html check out the above link. There are many more sources on the net, so read everything here then keep looking. If you want to do a marathon you can’t "guess I’ll just continue to train at my current pace" You must train differently for different kinds of races. To stay motivated, participate in shorter races between now and then. see how you like it. Let us know what you decide and look back here often for motivation and help! jojo

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Hey jojo: Haven’t heard form you in awhile. How’s the world of tri’s, running and architecture going? Doug Burke – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank you for all the suggestions. I guess i’ll just continue to train at my current pace, and hopefully I will be ready for a Marathon come next October. If not, then I will do the half and plan on another in January or February. Thanks again! Jacoby, http://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/index.html check out the above link. There are many more sources on the net, so read everything here then keep looking. If you want to do a marathon you can’t "guess I’ll just continue to train at my current pace" You must train differently for different kinds of races. To stay motivated, participate in shorter races between now and then. see how you like it. Let us know what you decide and look back here often for motivation and help! jojo

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Well said Doug. "Start slow and last forever" is a very good way to put it. Doug Burke – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me take the long view here. You’ve just started running. You really enjoy it. Natural human tendencies are to think about the possibilities and potential of your new found endeavor. You think big. You think Marathon. It’s called the "fever." While these thoughts have merit and demand respect, statistics show of new runners (less than 12 months running) who run a marathon, 12 months after the race most are not running at all. Right on. The stat that sticks in my mind from some years back is approximately 50% of the runners that start training for a marathon do not make it to the starting line. Injuries and burnout(long runs)are the two big hitters. I can’t site the source either but 18 years of running experience says it right on. When you slice these numbers even closer, the percent of runners that attempt a marathon in their first year, the failure rate is even higher. [good observations snipped for brevity] With that said, sure, you could train for and run marathon by October. But I would recommend spending this year running 15-20 miles per week, enter 5 or 10k’s. Develop a life style, where after a while a week seems strange without at least 12-15 miles (and believe me, these happen, vacations, work, real life stuff, etc). In a few years, go for the big one. By that time after the euphoria of the race has subsided, you’ll still be out there, maybe preparing for another 26.2 but almost certainly doing 20 miles for that week. Agree 150%. The most aggressive I would suggest would be to aim at 10 miler. Spend a year or so to find out your running strengths and weaknesses. The D & D school of start slow and last forever. — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

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I actually prefer Hal Higdon’s novice training program. Find it here at: http://www.halhigdon.com/marathon/Mar00novice.htm …and I second jojo’s advice: read everything you can and you can determine whether you are ready or not to begin training. I’ve been running for 15 years and am training for my first marathon. Late bloomer.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank you for all the suggestions. I guess i’ll just continue to train at my current pace, and hopefully I will be ready for a Marathon come next October. If not, then I will do the half and plan on another in January or February. Thanks again! Jacoby, http://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/index.html check out the above link. There are many more sources on the net, so read everything here then keep looking. If you want to do a marathon you can’t "guess I’ll just continue to train at my current pace" You must train differently for different kinds of races. To stay motivated, participate in shorter races between now and then. see how you like it. Let us know what you decide and look back here often for motivation and help! jojo

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Super program. I followed it to the letter and ran my first half in Oct in Toronto. I will be following his program for the novice full for the run in Toronto in Oct again. Jacoby you will find that the advice here is very helpful but the bottom line is you are the one who will decide. I never ran a race in my life and jumped into the 1/2 and was totally awe struck, it was a total rush, thousands of people all as nervous as you will be but a great group. Find your groove and enjoy the race.

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In a few years, go for the big one. By that time after the euphoria of the race has subsided, you’ll still be out there, maybe preparing for another 26.2 but almost certainly doing 20 miles for that week. Agree 150%. The most aggressive I would suggest would be to aim at 10 miler. Spend a year or so to find out your running strengths and weaknesses.

To add a beginner’s point of view to the wise, experienced ones: What I found in my first 2 years of "structured" running (as opposed to casual run after work for many years), is that there are many kinds of running – beyond the track and marathon things you see on tv. Each has their own thrills, challenges, and training requirements. Different people get turned on by different things. I spent most of last year just exploring things besides normal road running – like trail running, snowshoe running, orienteering, duathlons, etc. The other thing I found is that "experience" is something that is achieved not just through building time on legs (TOL), but running different courses, terrains, weather conditions, experimenting with food/fluid, and carrying food/fluid or emergency gear (most of our trail races don’t have aid stations so we need to carry our own supplies; most others here don’t need to worry about that – but then you need to experiment with what’s supplied by your race). Enjoy the journey It’s a blast! Dot

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Hi Doug, missed you! I realize I dropped off of the newsgroup for a while! My partner and I had a baby! He was born in September and his name is Joshua! I have been totally focused on baby ever since and have done nothing at all physical! Now that he is started to sleep through the night 3 out of 7 nights a week, I’m starting to dream of dragging out my running shoes again. I have only run a few times since he was born, so I’m starting all over again! I’ve set a goal to run a 5K on May 10th, so I’ll have 12 weeks to get my act together for it. I had much grander dreams for 2003, including running my first marathon, but taking the last 5 months off means that marathon will have to wait another year. No regrets of course, time with my son has been awesome, but now he is big enough to sit in a jogging stroller and I’ve a terrible itch to get back on the road! No Tri’s till next year. I’ll do some basic swim/bike crosstraining, but nothing competitive. Architecture? Slow, slow, slow. Me, I’m blown away! Every person we have to lay off, I get their responsibilities. So, it’s: Production manager, cad manager, draftsman, accounts payable, inventory clerk..yada, yada, yada. You get my drift! How are thing there? Catch me up on what’s going on in your world! Your in Virginia right? Thanks for remembering me! Hugs, jojo

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey jojo: Haven’t heard form you in awhile. How’s the world of tri’s, running and architecture going? Doug Burke Thank you for all the suggestions. I guess i’ll just continue to train at my current pace, and hopefully I will be ready for a Marathon come next October. If not, then I will do the half and plan on another in January or February. Thanks again! Jacoby, http://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/index.html check out the above link. There are many more sources on the net, so read everything here then keep looking. If you want to do a marathon you can’t "guess I’ll just continue to train at my current pace" You must train differently for different kinds of races. To stay motivated, participate in shorter races between now and then. see how you like it. Let us know what you decide and look back here often for motivation and help! jojo

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I recommend increasing long runs at the rate of one hour per year, which puts you in marathon distance around the 3rd year. Not all body organs adjust to running at the same rate. Many younger people find their hearts & lungs to adapt the fastest. Shin splints, diarreha, and bloody urine, lower-sugar irritability, are common complaints of other organs of the body not adjusting fast enough.

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Hey jojo: Things are great here in Virginia. It’s great about Josh. If you think you aren’t sleeping now though, wait until about exactly 16 years from now, when you’ll get in the habit of having him do a 10kbefore each date…..wink. Good luck on May 10. Take it easy though. Ya know, I saved a copy of your "I’m a runner now" post and gave it to someone I know who is new to running and entering her first race. Like me she was impressed with your story. You should send it off to one of the mags. If you don’t I just might, with your permission (and credit) of course. Who knows, 30 years form now, Josh may be holding it up saying "Look what my old lady wrote. Ain’t it great?" Like this note, I sent my last one to you outside of the group but deleted the anti spam stuff. Either way, I hope you get it. Take care girl, Doug – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Doug, missed you! I realize I dropped off of the newsgroup for a while! My partner and I had a baby! He was born in September and his name is Joshua! I have been totally focused on baby ever since and have done nothing at all physical! Now that he is started to sleep through the night 3 out of 7 nights a week, I’m starting to dream of dragging out my running shoes again. I have only run a few times since he was born, so I’m starting all over again! I’ve set a goal to run a 5K on May 10th, so I’ll have 12 weeks to get my act together for it. I had much grander dreams for 2003, including running my first marathon, but taking the last 5 months off means that marathon will have to wait another year. No regrets of course, time with my son has been awesome, but now he is big enough to sit in a jogging stroller and I’ve a terrible itch to get back on the road! No Tri’s till next year. I’ll do some basic swim/bike crosstraining, but nothing competitive. Architecture? Slow, slow, slow. Me, I’m blown away! Every person we have to lay off, I get their responsibilities. So, it’s: Production manager, cad manager, draftsman, accounts payable, inventory clerk..yada, yada, yada. You get my drift! How are thing there? Catch me up on what’s going on in your world! Your in Virginia right? Thanks for remembering me! Hugs, jojo Hey jojo: Haven’t heard form you in awhile. How’s the world of tri’s, running and architecture going? Doug Burke Thank you for all the suggestions. I guess i’ll just continue to train at my current pace, and hopefully I will be ready for a Marathon come next October. If not, then I will do the half and plan on another in January or February. Thanks again! Jacoby, http://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/index.html check out the above link. There are many more sources on the net, so read everything here then keep looking. If you want to do a marathon you can’t "guess I’ll just continue to train at my current pace" You must train differently for different kinds of races. To stay motivated, participate in shorter races between now and then. see how you like it. Let us know what you decide and look back here often for motivation and help! jojo

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..and he’s past curfew from a date. Maybe you’ll get in the habit of having him do a 10kbefore each date…..wink.

Naw, just use natural birth control. Before each date you serve up a HUGE plate of Garlic spinach (sautee garlic in oil, then add spinach). Bill R.

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Beginner questions

admin — Sun, 13 Oct 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

The only suggestion I’m having problems with is the suggestion to only run 3 or 4 times a week. I’m starting to get addicted to this. With my job, I’m quickly finding that running is a stress-reliever. At least I’m not running 2x a day. Right now I’m doing my run/walk for 6 days and then resting one day.

It’s OK to do some kind of workout on your off days. If it’s a running workout, just be sure to take it *very* easy on the off days — maybe include lots of walking. Better yet, why not head to the gym or to the pool and get some upper-body work in.

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Better yet, why not head to the gym or to the pool and get some upper-body work in. <<< I’m on holiday in England right now, staying in a very small town. Getting to and from a gym would be almost impossible. However, I’ve lifted for years and will return to that once I get back to Atlanta next month. In the meantime, I’m complimenting my running with isometrics, pushups and crunches.

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Thanks Amy. I have starting doing just that and trying to always keep in mind the axiom "Eat for what you’re about to do and not for what you’ve just done". I know lots of people that will work out and then eat ice cream, defending it by saying "I’ve earned it". Instead, I’ve planned my bigger meal about 1 1/2 hours before my run and specifically think of it as fuel for the run itself.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One more post on wieght loss and running …. What all of you are saying is that running has caused you to change in one way or another the process of eating. What I was saying , maybe not very clear, is running by itself is not a good wieght loss program. If one dosn’t replace the calories you used in running at some point you will come to a halt. We are all saying, I think, the same thing. Running causes a person to look at the whole of their life. We then start tuneing up parts that we have abused. If we stay at it we become more and more the person that we were should have been all along. ak

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This is something that has been easier than I thought. I generally drink about 5 or 6 cokes a day, but have cut down to drinking water almost exclusively. I think I’ve had 2 cokes in the week and half I’ve been running.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I was hungry I ate, but I just ate smaller portions. That’ll do it. Another trick is to eat the same sized portions, only of different, less caloric, items. Or to leave out the one high-calorie thing in the meal. A big key is to heighten one’s awareness of how many calories are in things, and what a calorie actually means as far as your diet is concerned. What really opened my eyes was a book by Dr. Howard Shapiro, "Picture Perfect Weight Loss". It basically shows photos of food, in ways that illustrate their calorie content. For example, there might be a picture of a cup of cashews, a big equals sign, then eight baked potatoes with salsa (both are 880 calories). Sounds corny, but it’s very effective. When you realize that that egg roll basically cancels out your three-mile run, you think twice about ordering it. - Jeff

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Instead of wasting everyone’s bandwidth answering each reply, I will just a global THANKS to everyone that was kind enough to offer their advice. I have carefully read through all the suggestions and have modified my training regimen as follows: 1 & 2) I only run once a day now and instead of 3 laps, what I do is the following: run 3, walk 1, run 2, walk 1, run 1, walk 1 I was really quite surprised that I was able to do this as I’m completely out of breath by the time I finish the first 3 laps. However, each walking lap enables me to rest sufficiently to run again. I’m sure that this longer workout (it takes about 25 minutes) will be better for me. 3) I’ve whacked the cals back up since as everyone said 1,000 is way too low for me (I’m 5′1" and 205). I know it’s mostly fluid, but I’ve lost about 7 pounds in the week and half I’ve been working out and eating better and feel much better with tons more energy. The funny thing is that the first week, I felt exhausted all the time. Now, into the second week, I guess my body is adapting. The only suggestion I’m having problems with is the suggestion to only run 3 or 4 times a week. I’m starting to get addicted to this. With my job, I’m quickly finding that running is a stress-reliever. At least I’m not running 2x a day. Right now I’m doing my run/walk for 6 days and then resting one day. Thanks again for all the advice! Tom

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When I was hungry I ate, but I just ate smaller portions.

That’ll do it. Another trick is to eat the same sized portions, only of different, less caloric, items. Or to leave out the one high-calorie thing in the meal. A big key is to heighten one’s awareness of how many calories are in things, and what a calorie actually means as far as your diet is concerned. What really opened my eyes was a book by Dr. Howard Shapiro, "Picture Perfect Weight Loss". It basically shows photos of food, in ways that illustrate their calorie content. For example, there might be a picture of a cup of cashews, a big equals sign, then eight baked potatoes with salsa (both are 880 calories). Sounds corny, but it’s very effective. When you realize that that egg roll basically cancels out your three-mile run, you think twice about ordering it. - Jeff

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Yes, I agree Jeff. Also, one easy thing for me to give up when I had weight loss goals was soda. If someone even cuts out 2 to 3 sodas a day, that totals up to a lot of calories (going from memory 300 to 450). I drink a soda every once in a while if I want something sweet, but in general I prefer water. I drink water all day long. They also say that often times when you feel hungry you are actually thristy, because many people do not hydrate themselves properly during the day and get their water by breaking down food. Tony Mueller – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I was hungry I ate, but I just ate smaller portions. That’ll do it. Another trick is to eat the same sized portions, only of different, less caloric, items. Or to leave out the one high-calorie thing in the meal. A big key is to heighten one’s awareness of how many calories are in things, and what a calorie actually means as far as your diet is concerned. What really opened my eyes was a book by Dr. Howard Shapiro, "Picture Perfect Weight Loss". It basically shows photos of food, in ways that illustrate their calorie content. For example, there might be a picture of a cup of cashews, a big equals sign, then eight baked potatoes with salsa (both are 880 calories). Sounds corny, but it’s very effective. When you realize that that egg roll basically cancels out your three-mile run, you think twice about ordering it. - Jeff

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Hey I am not a marathoner.. I did a learn to run clinic last year. The clinic started us out doing 1 min walk and 1 min run. We gradually increased to 30 mins non-stop- about 5k. The next clinic I did was a 10k and it was taught using the same method except this time it was 10 mins run and 1 min walk. I found it to be very effective. You might want to do 10 and 1 to start if you are comfortable with it, but if not, then do 5 or whatever you can handle. I find I can really push my distance with a 10 and 1 routine. I think another good rule to follow is to not increase your overall weekly distancew by more than 10% per week. If you do 10k this week, you can move up to 11 next week. As a beginer, I know I wanted to run and run and run, and then learned about overtraining.. ouch. probably best to stay at 1 run per day, 3-4 times a week. nothing worse than hurting yourself and being off for months. Best of luck! Jenn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m slightly embarrassed posting this to a group that looks like it’s largely made up of marathoners, but in hopes that I can get some advice for a beginner like me, here goes… I’m about 20 lbs overweight and have just begun running. I started only Tuesday and run three laps around a flood plain close to a friend’s house (I’m guessing it’s about a mile in length). Here are my questions: 1) I’ve been running twice daily and it’s still very difficult. I certainly don’t expect to breeze through it in record time considering that I’ve only been running for 5 days. However, how long should it take to get to the point where it’s a bit easier and I can then make the decision to either run farther or keep the same distance and run faster?

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Tom – running is NOT a way to lose weight. You may lose some weight

Running is not a way to lose weight—sorry but this is an idiotic statement.

I agree with Sam, not Amy, but not just because of the reasons he listed. I find when I run it actually decreases my appetite overall. I’m famished after a run, but eating a very small meal (200-300 cals) makes me full. Then I’m hungry again 3 hours later, but again I can’t eat much before feeling full. So when I run (or do any strenuous exercise) , I eat more smaller meals, which keeps my overall intake down, and is better for me. — Asya Kamsky I will complete a marathon and raise $5000 for the SF AIDS Foundation, Dec 9, 2001, Honolulu, Hawaii. Sponsor me! For more information see http://www.things.org/~asya/why.html

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I agree with Sam here 100%. When I first started getting in shape, I lost 50+ pounds in a year using an approach like this. When I was hungry I ate, but I just ate smaller portions. I also did a lot of running and other cardio work. Now, I run for the sport of it and my diet and workout regimen seem very natural and easy to maintain. Tony Mueller – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Running is not a way to lose weight—sorry but this is an idiotic statement. I agree that a change in eating behavior increases the rate of weight loss (assuming the alternative would be no change in energy intake but an increase in energy expenditure). 1 pound (~0.5kg) per week is a reasonable weight loss goal. At that rate, it would only take half a year to lose 20 pounds (okay that would be 26 pounds, but I figure on some gains and losses along the way) and not 2 years. Increase energy expenditure by 250kcals per day (walking or running ~2.5 miles–depending on one’s weight and a little on intensity) and decreasing energy intake by 250 kcals/day (generally can be done without severe restrictions) gives you ~3000 kcals/week (again I figure people will not hit the goal each day). A little less that a pound of fat per week, but certainly reasonable. Research has shown that people who exercise and add modest dietary restriction keep the weight off longer while also maintaining or increasing lean mass—the real added benefit. I’m about 20 lbs overweight and have just begun running. I started only Tuesday and run three laps around a flood plain close to a friend’s house (I’m guessing it’s about a mile in length). Here are my questions: Tom – running is NOT a way to lose weight. You may lose some weight by running but let me share a few numbers with you. You’ll burn around 100 cal a mile no matter what the speed you run. Some burn a few more some a few less but 100 cal is about average. There is about 3200 cal in one pound of fat. Yes 3200 cal. This means you’ll have to run 32 miles to lose one pound of fat. After you run your bmr will increase a few cals but still not enough to use only running as a weight loss program. To lose weight one must change what you are eating. Replace fat with carbos. Study your diet then use a healthy eating program. You’ll need to change your eating life style. It should take around two years to reduce your weight 20pd. the healthy method. 2) Is it ok to be running twice a day? Its ok but not necessary. If you are running for endurance aka the long haul then start slowly, very slowly. You can get your heart and lungs up to par but the bones, leg muscles and tendons take longer. Running is a life style – enjoy are the path. There is no short cut. 3) I’m drinking 3 litres of water a day. My wife says that’s too much. Is 3 litres too much considering that I’m running twice a day and eating less than 1000 calaries (I weigh about 205) ? The amount of water one should drink is based on what needs to be replaced. A healthy body will balance the amount of fluid it needs. Most runner drink too much water. They tend to use water as a excuse to rest. If you are runner under 60 min in a day with temp under 85F tend you don’t need water on the course. If your urine is straw to white colored then your water intake is ok. Dark urine is a sign you need more water. ak

Response:

Running is not a way to lose weight—sorry but this is an idiotic statement. I agree that a change in eating behavior increases the rate of weight loss (assuming the alternative would be no change in energy intake but an increase in energy expenditure). 1 pound (~0.5kg) per week is a reasonable weight loss goal. At that rate, it would only take half a year to lose 20 pounds (okay that would be 26 pounds, but I figure on some gains and losses along the way) and not 2 years. Increase energy expenditure by 250kcals per day (walking or running ~2.5 miles–depending on one’s weight and a little on intensity) and decreasing energy intake by 250 kcals/day (generally can be done without severe restrictions) gives you ~3000 kcals/week (again I figure people will not hit the goal each day). A little less that a pound of fat per week, but certainly reasonable. Research has shown that people who exercise and add modest dietary restriction keep the weight off longer while also maintaining or increasing lean mass—the real added benefit.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m about 20 lbs overweight and have just begun running. I started only Tuesday and run three laps around a flood plain close to a friend’s house (I’m guessing it’s about a mile in length). Here are my questions: Tom – running is NOT a way to lose weight. You may lose some weight by running but let me share a few numbers with you. You’ll burn around 100 cal a mile no matter what the speed you run. Some burn a few more some a few less but 100 cal is about average. There is about 3200 cal in one pound of fat. Yes 3200 cal. This means you’ll have to run 32 miles to lose one pound of fat. After you run your bmr will increase a few cals but still not enough to use only running as a weight loss program. To lose weight one must change what you are eating. Replace fat with carbos. Study your diet then use a healthy eating program. You’ll need to change your eating life style. It should take around two years to reduce your weight 20pd. the healthy method. 2) Is it ok to be running twice a day? Its ok but not necessary. If you are running for endurance aka the long haul then start slowly, very slowly. You can get your heart and lungs up to par but the bones, leg muscles and tendons take longer. Running is a life style – enjoy are the path. There is no short cut. 3) I’m drinking 3 litres of water a day. My wife says that’s too much. Is 3 litres too much considering that I’m running twice a day and eating less than 1000 calaries (I weigh about 205) ? The amount of water one should drink is based on what needs to be replaced. A healthy body will balance the amount of fluid it needs. Most runner drink too much water. They tend to use water as a excuse to rest. If you are runner under 60 min in a day with temp under 85F tend you don’t need water on the course. If your urine is straw to white colored then your water intake is ok. Dark urine is a sign you need more water. ak

Response:

Hi Tom, 1) It’s better to extend the number of minutes you are running than trying to run faster. I would suggest cutting down on your speed a bit and just try to run farther. 2) Running twice a day probably doesn’t help much. It’s great to be that motivated, but you will probably get more out of your workouts by running once a day and making this a higher quality workout. I would suggest trying to work yourself up to 30 minutes even if you have to walk part of the way. I think you will get more out of this. 3) I drink so much water that it’s unreal. Once after hot and humid 5K race I drank 8 (0.5 liters) = four liters of water within a couple of hours. I very rarely drink soda and drink water all day long even on my off days. I have no idea of much much water I drink, but I would guess that I drink well over 3 liters a day even on my off days. I drink as much water as I need and I don’t even think about it. About eating less than 1000 calories. I think this is a bad idea. Cut back on your food with smaller portions and exercise, but do not starve yourself. If your body starts to think it is starving, your metabolism will slow down and try to conserve all of it’s energy and it’s very easy to blow up like a balloon once you start to add calories to your diet again. What you want to do is keep your metabolism at it’s current level or make it faster by working out and eating less at the same time. Cutting back your portions by little as 10% to 20% and exercising can help. Drinking water instead of soda helps. Many people who go with the starvation diets end up heavier than they started. Good luck with your running and diet goals! Tony Mueller – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m slightly embarrassed posting this to a group that looks like it’s largely made up of marathoners, but in hopes that I can get some advice for a beginner like me, here goes… I’m about 20 lbs overweight and have just begun running. I started only Tuesday and run three laps around a flood plain close to a friend’s house (I’m guessing it’s about a mile in length). Here are my questions: 1) I’ve been running twice daily and it’s still very difficult. I certainly don’t expect to breeze through it in record time considering that I’ve only been running for 5 days. However, how long should it take to get to the point where it’s a bit easier and I can then make the decision to either run farther or keep the same distance and run faster? 2) Is it ok to be running twice a day? 3) I’m drinking 3 litres of water a day. My wife says that’s too much. Is 3 litres too much considering that I’m running twice a day and eating less than 1000 calaries (I weigh about 205) ? Thanks in advance, Tom

Response:

I’m about 20 lbs overweight and have just begun running. I started only Tuesday and run three laps around a flood plain close to a friend’s house (I’m guessing it’s about a mile in length). Here are my questions: 1) I’ve been running twice daily and it’s still very difficult. I certainly don’t expect to breeze through it in record time considering that I’ve only been running for 5 days. However, how long should it take to get to the point where it’s a bit easier and I can then make the decision to either run farther or keep the same distance and run faster?

Why are you running twice a day if you only started running 5 days ago? It will take a month or two at least, and there will always be rough days. However, eventually you get to the point where the good days come closer together and are so good as to propel you through the bad days. 2) Is it ok to be running twice a day?

I guess it’s ok, but for a beginner it would be better just to run once a day and go a little farther. If you run twice a day you risk injuries and early overtraining that might be hard to get over. 3) I’m drinking 3 litres of water a day. My wife says that’s too much. Is 3 litres too much considering that I’m running twice a day and eating less than 1000 calaries (I weigh about 205) ?

It’s really hard to drink too much water. In fact, I would say that unless you really force yourself and drink a couple more glasses after you feel like you’re going to throw up, you can’t drink too much water. 3 liters is certainly not enough to harm you. I once had over 1.5 liters in 15 minutes after a run. In general, a lot of water is good. -jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks in advance, Tom

Response:

The amount of water one should drink is based on what needs to be replaced. A healthy body will balance the amount of fluid it needs. Most runner drink too much water. They tend to use water as a excuse to rest. If you are runner under 60 min in a day with temp under 85F tend you don’t need water on the course. If your urine is straw to white colored then your water intake is ok. Dark urine is a sign you need more water.

Amy, I agree with you here 100%. I don’t carry a water bottle on most of my runs shorter than an hour. However, he started that the 3 litre water intake was for the entire day. I don’t think 3 litres of water a day is abnormal for even a non runner. In fact, most people do not drink enough water on a daily basis. I think I saw somehing on CNN that said something like 45% of people don’t hydrate themselves enough, which leads to increased appetite (because you can get water through food), headaches, ??poor sleeping??, etc… They also said that many school children don’t drink any water during an entire school day…. just food for thought. Tony Mueller

Response:

First, I would say no to running twice a day. You might also consider mixing walking and running until your fitness increases. Second, 3L is not too much water. Third, 1000kcals is way too little. That is a pretty dramatic reduction. See a registered dietitian for some help in this area.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m slightly embarrassed posting this to a group that looks like it’s largely made up of marathoners, but in hopes that I can get some advice for a beginner like me, here goes… I’m about 20 lbs overweight and have just begun running. I started only Tuesday and run three laps around a flood plain close to a friend’s house (I’m guessing it’s about a mile in length). Here are my questions: 1) I’ve been running twice daily and it’s still very difficult. I certainly don’t expect to breeze through it in record time considering that I’ve only been running for 5 days. However, how long should it take to get to the point where it’s a bit easier and I can then make the decision to either run farther or keep the same distance and run faster? 2) Is it ok to be running twice a day? 3) I’m drinking 3 litres of water a day. My wife says that’s too much. Is 3 litres too much considering that I’m running twice a day and eating less than 1000 calaries (I weigh about 205) ? Thanks in advance, Tom

Response:

how long should it take to get to the point where it’s a bit easier and I can then make the decision to either run farther or keep the same distance and run faster?

Others have answered these questions, so I’ll just second their advice and put a coupla cents in. When I began running, I shot for a goal of being able to run for 30 minutes non-stop, which took about a month to reach (your mileage *will* vary). I did this using the run-walk method, going out for 30 minutes, four times a week, gradually decreasing the walking portions and increasing the running portions. I then worked on increasing distance. Increased speed is a natural by-product of this. There are types of training you can do that specifically address speed, but, from what I’ve read, it’s best to do speedwork after you’ve built a solid base of running fitness. 2) Is it ok to be running twice a day?

I wouldn’t recommend it. In fact, I’d tell you to not even run every day. Days off, especially at the beginning, are vital for improvement, and they reduce the risk of injuries. One of the tricks to getting better at running is to stress your muscles, then let them recover. They will recover to a point that is stronger than they were. Elite runners have very short recovery times. We newbies do not! Respect this fact and you will go far. Literally. I’m running twice a day and eating less than 1000 calaries (I weigh about 205) ?

Those calories are gonna have to increase. All that’s doing is slowing down your metabolism, which isn’t helping your weight or your running. Yes, the way to lose weight is to exercise more and eat fewer calories. One might be tempted to conclude that to lose weight fast, one should exercise a ton and eat next to nothing. But it doesn’t work that way. Overtraining/undereating is no better than undertraining/overeating. If you get in an easy 9-12 miles a week, and reduce your caloric intake by a paltry 300-400 calories a day, you’ll likely lose a nice, safe pound or pound-and-a-half a week. I did this when I started, and went from 215 to 195 in five months, without starving and without injury. Sounds like you have more motivation than me, so it probably won’t even take you that long. Good luck! - Jeff

Response:

I would switch from two one mile runs to one ’slow’ two mile run per day even if you have to walk a little. Try not to do too much too soon. You will risk either injury or burn out. I’ve been running for years but it still takes me about one mile before my breathing and stride feel smooth so increase your distance a little. Rick

Response:

1)Think in minutes not in distance. Try to run slower but longer. 2)If you want to loose weight it might be better to have one long run than two short ones. 3)I don’t think 3 litres of water is too much, but I’m sure 1000 calories is too little. You should see a dietician about this. When I started running, a little less than 10 years ago, I had to walk after 20 seconds. Run-walk-run-walk-run… did it for me. It went so good, I started to run too fast…. and lost speed (I know this sounds funny). I then discovered the pulse meter and I still use it to slow me down and help me to run longer. In the beginning my weight was 235 and running didn’t lower that, I ran for about 2 year without loosing anything. It’s only after changing my diet that the scales went as low as 195. People did ask me a few times too often if I was feeling alright, so I went back up. For now it’s 213 and I feel good with 6′2" in height. — Arthur Bamps, Brussels Belgium Visit Arthur’s Marathon Page http://users.chello.be/cr32000/

Response:

You’ll probably be running a lot more comfortably after the first month and it should really start to get easy after about 3 months, I guess. 2) Is it ok to be running twice a day?

It’s probably not a good idea for a beginner. You body will have to adapt quite a lot, quite quickly at the start and it can only do this with adequate rest. Three (or maybe four) runs per week is plenty to be starting with. 3) I’m drinking 3 litres of water a day. My wife says that’s too much. Is 3 litres too much considering that I’m running twice a day and eating less than 1000 calaries (I weigh about 205) ?

3 litres is quite a lot, but not too excessive, 2 litres would be just as good (unless it gets really hot during your training – I find I can lose a couple of kilos of weight in an hour running in 30 deg.C weather). You probably should increase your food intake though, 1600 cals a day is pretty much the minimum safe level for a sustained diet. Very low intakes like 1000 cals/day are only really suitable for a week or so… your body needs food, especially protein and adequate vitamins, to adapt properly to your training. — Regards, Barry Running & Stuff: http://distancerunner.tmfweb.nl "The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have training logs to keep; and miles to run before I sleep". – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks in advance, Tom

Response:

I’m slightly embarrassed posting this to a group that looks like it’s largely made up of marathoners, but in hopes that I can get some advice for a beginner like me, here goes… I’m about 20 lbs overweight and have just begun running. I started only Tuesday and run three laps around a flood plain close to a friend’s house (I’m guessing it’s about a mile in length). Here are my questions: 1) I’ve been running twice daily and it’s still very difficult. I certainly don’t expect to breeze through it in record time considering that I’ve only been running for 5 days. However, how long should it take to get to the point where it’s a bit easier and I can then make the decision to either run farther or keep the same distance and run faster? 2) Is it ok to be running twice a day? 3) I’m drinking 3 litres of water a day. My wife says that’s too much. Is 3 litres too much considering that I’m running twice a day and eating less than 1000 calaries (I weigh about 205) ? Thanks in advance, Tom

Response:

I would also advise not to run every day (i.e., 7 days a week.)

Agreed Rest and cross training do wonders.

Exactly what is defined as cross-training these days? Weightwork?

Response:

I would also advise not to run every day (i.e., 7 days a week.) Agreed Rest and cross training do wonders. Exactly what is defined as cross-training these days? Weightwork?

Technicaly I don’t think I could offer a definition, and I’m sure other folks here have a range of opinions on supplimental or alternative exercise. But what I personally consider/understand as cross training is alternative exercise that works or focuses on different muscle groups and/or training regimes, i.e., swimming, biking, or my personal favorite: backpacking and power hiking. (I always seem to get a boost in my running after a week off when I do nothing but hike.) I guess I would consider weight training as complimentary depending on the focus, or any targeted resistence exercise. Also sit ups and stretching. Anyway that’s my humble opine. Tom Phillips

Response:

I would also advise not to run every day (i.e., 7 days a week.) Agreed Rest and cross training do wonders. Exactly what is defined as cross-training these days? Weightwork?

I second what Tom and Satish have said. Cross-training can be anything that’s not running of the type you are training for. While power hiking might usually be considered cross-training, it is part of the technique for hilly ultras. So in that case, hiking might be considered actual training, but usually it’s considered cross-training. I would also add snowshoeing, snowshoe running, skiing, etc to the list. Usually the purpose of cross-training is to rest some muscles / tendons, etc that might be over used in running or to strengthen (in a non-pounding manner) some muscles / tendons that might be weaker than the others. There is almost always some overlap among systems, though. So you need to log all your activities and balance your workload to avoid overdoing something. Similarly, don’t put hard days of anything back to back as a beginner (sometimes this is done in more advanced training). Also, I’m considering signing up for a 5K race in a few months(as a training motivator), but I’m sure to be incredibly slow, and I’d rather not be humiliated–any thoughts on whether this is a good idea?

Anyone who crosses the finish line is a success! IMHO, it’s much better to be challenged by an event or a particular course and come in toward the back of the pack, than to do something easy or to not make it to the starting line. (FWIW, I practice what I preach – in the couple events I’ve done, I’ve been one of the last few to finish.) So go for it and remember to have fun! Dot

Response:

Tom: Learn to listen to your body. Just pushing through and ignoring signs of soreness and accumulative fatigue can make injury setbacks likely. Push for a while and then give yourself an easy week. Easy enough that you are raring to go again. During this easy week your body rebuilds itself to meet the demands. Without it, you do not improve as much. One easy week a month makes sense. Regarding two runs a day. The usual reason an experienced runner runs twice a day is to pile on the miles in preparation for a marathon or other long event. Of course, no beginner should be concerned with this kind of mileage. BUT, there is absolutely no reason not to consider two modest runs a day if this fits your schedule. Feel free to be original on this point. AND, if you want to run 5-7 days a weeks, just do a very short run on alternate days. This keeps you regular. Walking breaks do wonders as you have found. Hope you are also having fun with it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do the 5|k and enjoy it. Don’t worry about being humiliated. Everyone will be thinking about his/her own performance and no one will be thinking about yours. Congratulations and keep up the good work. After a year of getting healthier–losing fortysome pounds through diet, strength training, and workouts on an elliptical machine, a week ago I decided try a run. I’ve never been able to run even a quarter mile, and hadn’t tried it since the miserable mile-runs we had to attempt in high school. To my delight, I found I could comfortably, though slowly, run 2 miles without stopping. I’ve done four more 2-mile runs since then, and I’m finding it addictive. Anyway, I’m wondering where to go from here. I’d like to continue running for fitness, and I’m concerned about injury. Does anyone have book recommendations? Website recommendations? Also, I’m considering signing up for a 5K race in a few months(as a training motivator), but I’m sure to be incredibly slow, and I’d rather not be humiliated–any thoughts on whether this is a good idea? Thanks in advance, Anna

Response:

It is hard to add anything to want Satash wrote, but I can add just two things. Generally it is wise to limit any increase in milage to just 10% or less from week to week to prevent injury. Running does not include pain. If you feel pain associated with running, stop at least intill you know what it is. — Joseph E. Meehan 26 + 6 = 1 It’s Irish Math

Response:

Do the 5|k and enjoy it. Don’t worry about being humiliated. Everyone will be thinking about his/her own performance and no one will be thinking about yours. Congratulations and keep up the good work.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After a year of getting healthier–losing fortysome pounds through diet, strength training, and workouts on an elliptical machine, a week ago I decided try a run. I’ve never been able to run even a quarter mile, and hadn’t tried it since the miserable mile-runs we had to attempt in high school. To my delight, I found I could comfortably, though slowly, run 2 miles without stopping. I’ve done four more 2-mile runs since then, and I’m finding it addictive. Anyway, I’m wondering where to go from here. I’d like to continue running for fitness, and I’m concerned about injury. Does anyone have book recommendations? Website recommendations? Also, I’m considering signing up for a 5K race in a few months(as a training motivator), but I’m sure to be incredibly slow, and I’d rather not be humiliated–any thoughts on whether this is a good idea? Thanks in advance, Anna

Response:

I’d like to continue running for fitness, and I’m concerned about injury.

All excellent advice, but I would add "shoes, shoes, shoes." Comfortable shoes isn’t the criteria, but shoes matched to your feet. Have your feet and walking/running gait examined by an expert (like a sports podiatrist…) Get shoes and/or orthotics accordingly. Improper footgear is the cause of much pain and injury. I would also advise not to run every day (i.e., 7 days a week.) Rest and cross training do wonders.

Response:

After a year of getting healthier–losing fortysome pounds through diet, strength training, and workouts on an elliptical machine, a week ago I decided try a run. I’ve never been able to run even a quarter mile, and hadn’t tried it since the miserable mile-runs we had to attempt in high school. To my delight, I found I could comfortably, though slowly, run 2 miles without stopping. I’ve done four more 2-mile runs since then, and I’m finding it addictive. Anyway, I’m wondering where to go from here. I’d like to continue running for fitness, and I’m concerned about injury. Does anyone have book recommendations? Website recommendations? Also, I’m considering signing up for a 5K race in a few months(as a training motivator), but I’m sure to be incredibly slow, and I’d rather not be humiliated–any thoughts on whether this is a good idea? Thanks in advance, Anna

Response:

Congratulations on your new found hobby! Yes, it’s addictive and great thing is that it’s a nice addiction to have. Anyway, I’m wondering where to go from here.

1) Keep a running log. It just amazes you. Great morale and confidence booster. You will be pleasantly surprised by your progress over weeks, months and then years. I’d like to continue running for fitness, and I’m concerned about injury. 2) Don’t push too much. It’s too tempting for beginners to increase mileage (and speed) once they know they can run. Take it easy. Gradually increase your distance. 3) Don’t try to cover more distance AND at faster pace on the same run. Keep some days for just running little longer and on some days just run little faster than usual. Don’t combine speed and distance both on the same run. 4) Keep variety. Take at least 2 days off in the beginning. Run on different routes, roads and trails. That’s what I find about running really interesting. This way I explore more backroads, city roads and trails. It’s fun to get your exercise and at the same time get to see different places. Run shorter distances on some days, longer on others. 5) Make sure you have good running shoe that you feel comfortable wearing – preferably bought from a specialty running store Does anyone have book recommendations? Website recommendations? 6) http://www.runnersworld.com/ http://www.runningtimes.com/ http://www.coolrunning.com/ http://www.newrunner.com/ and of course rec.running ! Also, I’m considering signing up for a 5K race in a few months(as a training motivator), but I’m sure to be incredibly slow, and I’d rather not be humiliated–any thoughts on whether this is a good idea?

7) Excellent idea. Go for it. It’s always good to have a goal. Then you are more directed and focused on your efforts. Don’t worry. I too am incredibly slow runner but am ready to run a half marathon tomorrow. I have been running for almost little over year now and still don’t bother much about speed. I just kept increasing my mileage gradually and speed came with it naturally. Good luck and enjoy your runs! – Satish

Response:

Low-Mileage: Progress Report after 3 months of 6 miles/week

admin — Thu, 22 Aug 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

From Steve Freides: The last time I ran more than 10 miles in a week was May. I’ve been on an average of 6 miles per week of running for the last 12 weeks or so, 3 or 4 short runs per week, none longer than 2.5 miles. My lifetime 5k best is 20:10, my best last year about 20:40.

I’ve done only 3 10.5K’s in the last month or so, and virtually no other running at all; and around 1 or 2 mile runs in the last couple months before August. The 10.5K was in the 50’s before August, for the last 3 years. The mile PR is around 5:35. The former 10.5K PR (50:48) was, itself, likewise done with virtually no activity, having been only the 3rd run in a 4 month period. The other 2 runs were a 10.5K at 56 minutes and a 21K at around 1:53. Early August: 10.5K, 49:58, PR (47:30 10K) 2 days later: 10.5K, 50:01, done as mile repeats. (Recovery time included in the total!). August 16, 1600m, 5:44 (tied 2nd best, off 1 month hiatus) August 18, repeat intervals on 200m track, 10.6k total 400m 0:57.20 (2 laps, PR on the 200m track) 200m 0:25.86 (the 1st lap, PR on the 200m track) August 19-22: No activity whatsoever. August 23, 10.5K, 49:10, PR (46:40 10K) Done as 2 5K repeats. Recovery time, 2 minutes, included in total. August 25, 5000 meters warmup run 1000 meters, around 3:00; 15 minutes recovery 1400 meter repeats; 15 minutes recovery between each 1st: 4:43.28 (5:24 1600m pace) 2nd: 4:50.70 (5:33 1600m pace) 3rd: 5:01.80 (5:44 1600m pace) Other running/walking totalling 12-13 miles for the day.

Response:

From me: I’ve done only 3 10.5K’s in the last month or so, and virtually no other running at all; and around 1 or 2 mile runs in the last couple months before August.

That should read: "and, in addition, I’ve only done around 1 or 2 1600m runs throughout the last couple months before August." There were 10.5K’s done in July and June, mostly during and before early July. The net average for those months was maybe 8 miles a week; and around 2-4 miles a week all this year before that. Like you, I’m too coming to the conclusion that the whole deal with low mileage (combined with activity elsewhere) is a success. Some of these times I’m getting into are way beyond what I was capable of just a short while ago. I was barely doing 7:00 for a 1 mile run in January, with a PR near 6, and now I’m toying with the possibility of getting down under 5:00, and being able to do a 5K in the 17-18 minute range.

Response:

The last time I ran more than 10 miles in a week was May. I’ve been on an average of 6 miles per week of running for the last 12 weeks or so, 3 or 4 short runs per week, none longer than 2.5 miles. My lifetime 5k best is 20:10, my best last year about 20:40. I’ve been putting in my distance all summer long by bicycle, averaging about 100 miles per week which is roughly the equivalent of 25 mile per week of running. Some of that mileage every week is as captain of a tandem or triplet bicycle with riders slower than me aboard and finds me working quite hard. Some of it is done on a fixed gear, again a harder than usual effort. The equivalent mileage in single bike terms might be closer to 150, the running equivalent more like 35-40. I’ve also been doing one or two short, easy swims per week and Tae Kwan Do class 3-4 times per week – and lifting regularly, too. This morning I did a short bike ride with my son to his camp, then about an hour of weight lifting including heavy deadlifts, which particularly tax the legs, and one-armed kettlebell cleans and jerks with a 32 kg (about 70 pounds), which work the entire body. (A kettlebell is an old-fashioned heavy round cast iron weight with a handle.) After this at about 11am I covered 2 miles in 13:29, about 6:45/mile pace, faster than Daniels’ Tempo pace for me, and about my race pace for 4-5 miles, I’d guess. I was quite surprised by the time, expecting to be about a minute slower. So far, I’m content to pronounce my low-mileage program a success. While I’m not planning on any races in the near future, I don’t feel like I’ve lost running fitness at my goal distance of 5k even though I’ve approached it as one often does a marathon, staying in the ball park but still shy of the full distance. I feel confident that, with a brief taper, I could still run close to my lifetime PR at 5k. The short, faster runs have let me concentrate on form – staying relaxed, bringing my knees up, keeping my cadence high, my time in contact with the ground brief, my shoulders and hips loose, and my breathing easy. I’ve included a Repeat session every week or two, all out 400’s on long rests, to bring even more focus on form and efficiency while running quickly. Comments always welcomed; thanks for listening. -S-

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it’s fall. now a great season. winter evan better.

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Hi, Steve, The last time I ran more than 10 miles in a week was May. I’ve been on an average of 6 miles per week of running for the last 12 weeks or so, 3 or 4 short runs per week, none longer than 2.5 miles. My lifetime 5k best is 20:10, my best last year about 20:40.

[snip] Man, this has to be tough for you. However, it really sounds like you’ve done an excellent job in maintaining your fitness (and avoiding the sedentary willies). I don’t have the experience to offer anything but support. Layne The rec.running report archives may be found at http://kinder.cis.unf.edu/rec.running

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Steve, The last time I ran more than 10 miles in a week was May. I’ve been on an average of 6 miles per week of running for the last 12 weeks or so, 3 or 4 short runs per week, none longer than 2.5 miles. My lifetime 5k best is 20:10, my best last year about 20:40. [snip] Man, this has to be tough for you. However, it really sounds like you’ve done an excellent job in maintaining your fitness (and avoiding the sedentary willies). I don’t have the experience to offer anything but support.

It’s not really that tough. I love to ride a bike. But it is different, not going out for any runs longer than about 15 minutes – I do miss that. However, the challenge of keeping a near-constant focus on form is great. I feel like I’m retraining my body to run better and, maybe some day, it will learn to run in good enough form that I can do some more miles. In the meantime, I’m really pleased with how it’s all going. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Layne The rec.running report archives may be found at http://kinder.cis.unf.edu/rec.running

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That’s good to hear (that it’s not a burden and that you’re getting a chance to play with form a bit). Have you thought about one of those running events that have cross training warmups – I think they’re called tris

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s not really that tough. I love to ride a bike. But it is different, not going out for any runs longer than about 15 minutes – I do miss that. However, the challenge of keeping a near-constant focus on form is great. I feel like I’m retraining my body to run better and, maybe some day, it will learn to run in good enough form that I can do some more miles. In the meantime, I’m really pleased with how it’s all going. That’s good to hear (that it’s not a burden and that you’re getting a chance to play with form a bit). Have you thought about one of those running events that have cross training warmups – I think they’re called tris

One of these years I’ll do a tri. I’m also a decent swimmer, as I’ve posted here, but the thought of getting geared up for it is just too much for me to bear now – a tri-specific bike, a wetsuit, learning to swim in open water, etc. I also prefer the events in more or less the opposite order – I like to run before I bike or swim because I find running simply requires more of me than either cycling or swimming do. However, one of these days, I’ll break down and do a tri, maybe when my kids are grown and gone, or maybe when one of my kids wants to do one with me. -S- -S-

Response:

your best training/racing tip?

admin — Mon, 29 Jul 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Put more effort in your weakest event than in your best one…seems obvious but most people are tempted to train their strongest more. Peter – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s the best tip/trick anyone ever gave you (or you figured out on your own) for tri training/racing? Hopefully this thread will be a repository of good ideas. (that’s repository with an "re" not "sup"). Here’s mine. Hope you’ll add to it. Learn to leave bike shoes clipped in instead of putting them on in T1. In sprint tris I save a ton of time not having to put my shoes inside T1. I ride, then strap in on the way. Reverse the process into T2 and I’m ready to put my running shoes on as soon as I rack the bike. Note: This took a good deal of practice! I used my driveway as T1 & T2 and practiced switching run/bike/run/bike… over and over.

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I wish catching fish was as easy as putting out flame bait to get flamed in RST! Interesting tips so far. I knew I could count on RSTers to post stuff that I wouldn’t think of. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Learn to leave bike shoes clipped in instead of putting them on in T1.

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For beginners (like me) … Put in a couple of bricks (bike / run ,swim / bike, whatever) just to prove to yourself that you can do it. Feeling like you want to quit, then getting over it and knowing you can settle into your rhythm again is invaluable. If it’s your first tri, then you won’t win, so don’t try. Don’t be afraid to slow down or walk if you’re struggling. Get your breath, compose yourself, then carry on.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s the best tip/trick anyone ever gave you (or you figured out on your own) for tri training/racing? Hopefully this thread will be a repository of good ideas. (that’s repository with an "re" not "sup"). Here’s mine. Hope you’ll add to it. Learn to leave bike shoes clipped in instead of putting them on in T1. In sprint tris I save a ton of time not having to put my shoes inside T1. I ride, then strap in on the way. Reverse the process into T2 and I’m ready to put my running shoes on as soon as I rack the bike. Note: This took a good deal of practice! I used my driveway as T1 & T2 and practiced switching run/bike/run/bike… over and over.

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I agree that it’s difficult to do successfully. I also agree that it can be potentially dangerous to everyone if someone attempts this without tons of practice. My first few dozen times in practice were ugly but I probably did 250 transitions(uphill, downhill, and flat) the first week and continue to do it as part of my routine. It was something I really wanted to learn so I stuck with it until it was second nature. However, I don’t do it unless I’m "racing" and event, and even then only at sprints. I don’t "race" long course, I just enjoy it. I can’t imagine watching that many people try something like this without practice. It’s worse than trying new gear for the first time at a race! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes practice, practice, practice if you want to do this. I doubt I will ever do it after watching that clownish event. I even saw a few of those guys who put the rubber bands on the shoes back to the rear skewer. What a joke. This must have been someones idea of a joke. I can’t believe people would risk their bike start to something they haven’t mastered but it was real obvious hardly any of these folks had ever even tried this before.

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Yes, T2 is a much greater savings to me. Just as an experiment I set up a zone and timed myself in transition a bunch of times. I changed the zone size and timed myself again a bunch of times. When I finally got it down the times were in favor of leaving the shoes clipped in. FYI: The smallest zone was the least distance from transition to when I could get my feet in the shoes. The longest zone was smallest + ~50yd. Smallest zone shrunk and I waited until the size stabilized due to my skill level before I timed anything. This is fun to me. I don’t do it because I’m winning my AG. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you sure you save a ton of time on T1? Instead of spending 5-10 seconds putting shoes on, you spend X seconds not pedalling at full intensity as you put your shoes on while balancing the bike. Scores of triathletes do it so poorly (and dangerously to those around them) that I have my doubts. I do think there is much more merit on the T2 side.

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Try reading a book by a running expert, i.e Dr. Jack Daniels

Sigh. Another one of these. You don’t run on paper. I guess I will stick to my bunk and get beaten by all those who run 4 miles a day.

I didn’t say I ran 4 miles a day. I said I added a few weekly 4 mile runs to what I’d already been running. I would be interested to know what reputable source would endorse your methods.

If you’re running low mileage, like 50 mpw, you don’t see the benefit of adding another 15 miles in small increments? Too much time reading, not enough time running. — Sylvan Smyth Victoria, BC, Canada

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If you’re running low mileage, like 50 mpw, you don’t see the benefit of adding another 15 miles in small increments? Too much time reading, not enough time running.

I only run about 30 miles a week, in about 4 sessions and I am also sure that using any gender/age graded formula I could handily beat you. I train smart and adding a bunch of four mile runs just to bump your mileage from 50 to 75 miles is worthless. Like I asked you before name a coach that advocates your running plan. I don’t think there is one. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Sylvan Smyth Victoria, BC, Canada

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I leave my shoes clipped to the bike and practice getting in and out while on the bike every time I ride. I’m not at the point where I’d be willing to try it in a race, but I’m sure I will be eventually. I echo the point that doing it in a race before your ready is dangerous to yourself and others, and it probably doesn’t save *that* much time. But it is a cool skill to learn. -Harold

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Bill you took my tip. For races all the way up to Ironman – TAKE ALL OF YOUR HYDRATION / FOOD WITH YOU. Get nothing(including nasty stuff from reused water bottles) from the race support. Take it all. You’ll be faster, you can cruise by the food lines, and you won’t miss a bottle hand off. I took special note of how much time it saved me at Blackwater vs. the others around me – its worth it. Next most important tip – put your swim goggles on UNDER your swim cap. If they get knocked off your face you won’t lose them.

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Try reading a book by a running expert, i.e Dr. Jack Daniels or the Coe/Martin book, or Running to the Top by Joe Vigil, or anything Arthur Lydiard wrote and you will see you are wrong. If you got good results using your training methods you described you could have done much better without running 3 or 4 miles a pop. I would be interested to know what reputable source would endorse your methods. I guess I will stick to my bunk and get beaten by all those who run 4 miles a day.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Junk Mileage is the 3 to 5 mile runs people use to up their weekly mileage. This is not very useful as it is too short to have any aerobic benefit and just tires you out. That’s just bunk. Nonsense. There’s a lot more to running fitness than just aerobic development. Adding a few 4-milers to your normal routine might be just what you need to give yourself a big racing breakthrough. Worked for me. In my book any run less than 40 minutes is junk. Junk advice, in my book. I did my best running on about 8 runs a week, 3-4 of which were those so-called junkers. The rest of my running was pretty similar to what I’d been doing. The next year I tried running similar weekly mileage, with fewer, longer runs, and didn’t race as well. An experiment of one, but there’s a ton of empirical evidence that greater frequency of running has its benefits, even when the extra runs don’t fall into a modern pseudo-scientific "zone" — Sylvan Smyth Victoria, BC, Canada

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Junk Mileage is the 3 to 5 mile runs people use to up their weekly mileage. This is not very useful as it is too short to have any aerobic benefit and just tires you out.

That’s just bunk. Nonsense. There’s a lot more to running fitness than just aerobic development. Adding a few 4-milers to your normal routine might be just what you need to give yourself a big racing breakthrough. Worked for me. In my book any run less than 40 minutes is junk.

Junk advice, in my book. I did my best running on about 8 runs a week, 3-4 of which were those so-called junkers. The rest of my running was pretty similar to what I’d been doing. The next year I tried running similar weekly mileage, with fewer, longer runs, and didn’t race as well. An experiment of one, but there’s a ton of empirical evidence that greater frequency of running has its benefits, even when the extra runs don’t fall into a modern pseudo-scientific "zone" — Sylvan Smyth Victoria, BC, Canada

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Alternatively, make sure your run mileage is as high as you can get it without getting too junky or slow. Just running far and super slow wont help when you get to an olympic/half IM race. Why not? Many people in the half IM are running far and slow. It’s a half marathon, not a sprint. I agree that for that distance, bike mileage is important as you need to have legs left for this run, but ‘junk’ mileage is still useful.

Junk Mileage is the 3 to 5 mile runs people use to up their weekly mileage. This is not very useful as it is too short to have any aerobic benefit and just tires you out. I would not consider a run of 7 or 8 miles, even if it is very slow, to go into the junk mileage column. In my book any run less than 40 minutes is junk, unless it is part of a brick. Of course these rules only apply to the reasonably fit, as many beginners may only be able to run a couple of miles at a time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Jason O’Rourke www.jor.com

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I too leave my shoes clipped in at home and practice every time I ride. I have doing doing this for 10+ years and am very comfortable and controlled. I don’t necessarily do it for speed – I do it b/c it is just plain easier for me…and I don’t have to worry about forgetting my shoes!:-) Good Luck! David Never give up, Be satisfied w/ your best, Do unto others…..

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In swimming and biking, volume is one of the major limiters for many people. Getting your bike mileage pays large dividends on the bike as well as some benefits for the run. I’m training for a 1/2 IM and doing a one day ride of 120 miles really gave me the confidence to push hard for the 56 mi that i’ll do come race day. Alternatively, make sure your run mileage is as high as you can get it without getting too junky or slow. Just running far and super slow wont help when you get to an olympic/half IM race. jeremy b

Response:

Alternatively, make sure your run mileage is as high as you can get it without getting too junky or slow. Just running far and super slow wont help when you get to an olympic/half IM race.

Why not? Many people in the half IM are running far and slow. It’s a half marathon, not a sprint. I agree that for that distance, bike mileage is important as you need to have legs left for this run, but ‘junk’ mileage is still useful. — Jason O’Rourke www.jor.com

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Bring your own support. In my opinion the hardest leason I learned was relying on the event for nutrition or water. Yes on IM distance you will have to rely on them but bring as much as your own goo, water, cyto, banana, whatever. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s the best tip/trick anyone ever gave you (or you figured out on your own) for tri training/racing? Hopefully this thread will be a repository of good ideas. (that’s repository with an "re" not "sup"). Here’s mine. Hope you’ll add to it. Learn to leave bike shoes clipped in instead of putting them on in T1. In sprint tris I save a ton of time not having to put my shoes inside T1. I ride, then strap in on the way. Reverse the process into T2 and I’m ready to put my running shoes on as soon as I rack the bike. Note: This took a good deal of practice! I used my driveway as T1 & T2 and practiced switching run/bike/run/bike… over and over.

Response:

What’s the best tip/trick anyone ever gave you (or you figured out on your own) for tri training/racing?

Do a long swim/bike brick before your first 1/2 IM or IM. Hopping on that bike after you’ve done a hard swim was a big surprise the first time. clm in sf — cathy morgan, san francisco, ca REMOVE x x to email

Response:

In case you are overweight: loose weigth. The real tip is the ideal weight I could reach with proper nutrition: 63kg per 175cm. Many triathletes are not conscious they are far away their ideal weight. A few kilograms make a big difference in long distance triathlons. Cristiano

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My best training tip is to go out and train consistently and give your best effort in every training session. Plan the sessions and be sure to quit feeling like you could do a bit more. Work at a good effort and time but never train to exhaustion. Forget about the shoes on bike unless you are a pro. Ken

Response:

What’s the best tip/trick anyone ever gave you (or you figured out on your own) for tri training/racing? Hopefully this thread will be a repository of good ideas. (that’s repository with an "re" not "sup"). Here’s mine. Hope you’ll add to it. Learn to leave bike shoes clipped in instead of putting them on in T1. In sprint tris I save a ton of time not having to put my shoes inside T1. I ride, then strap in on the way. Reverse the process into T2 and I’m ready to put my running shoes on as soon as I rack the bike. Note: This took a good deal of practice! I used my driveway as T1 & T2 and practiced switching run/bike/run/bike… over and over.

Response:

Learn to leave bike shoes clipped in instead of putting them on in T1. In sprint tris I save a ton of time not having to put my shoes inside T1. I ride, then strap in on the way. Reverse the process into T2 and I’m ready to put my running shoes on as soon as I rack the bike. Note: This took a good deal of practice! I used my driveway as T1 & T2

Are you sure you save a ton of time on T1? Instead of spending 5-10 seconds putting shoes on, you spend X seconds not pedalling at full intensity as you put your shoes on while balancing the bike. Scores of triathletes do it so poorly (and dangerously to those around them) that I have my doubts. I do think there is much more merit on the T2 side. — Jason O’Rourke www.jor.com

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start the swim on the outside (away from the crowd) if you’re a fast swimmer… the distance to the first buoy will differ by a few meters at most, and you don’t have to deal with all those people saying "on your left" during the bike.

Response:

I spent some time at the T1 exit at Wildflower 1/2 IM. Just beyond the exit where they let you mount was a slight uphill grade. I would say that 4 out of 5 people that had their shoes in the clips looked like idiots. I saw several crashes, other riders get taken out and one guy racked his nuts. Yes practice, practice, practice if you want to do this. I doubt I will ever do it after watching that clownish event. I even saw a few of those guys who put the rubber bands on the shoes back to the rear skewer. What a joke. This must have been someones idea of a joke. I can’t believe people would risk their bike start to something they haven’t mastered but it was real obvious hardly any of these folks had ever even tried this before. Even the guys that got it right lost peddling time. Depending on how far they had to run inside T1 with their bike they may or may not have saved time. BW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s the best tip/trick anyone ever gave you (or you figured out on your own) for tri training/racing? Hopefully this thread will be a repository of good ideas. (that’s repository with an "re" not "sup"). Here’s mine. Hope you’ll add to it. Learn to leave bike shoes clipped in instead of putting them on in T1. In sprint tris I save a ton of time not having to put my shoes inside T1. I ride, then strap in on the way. Reverse the process into T2 and I’m ready to put my running shoes on as soon as I rack the bike. Note: This took a good deal of practice! I used my driveway as T1 & T2 and practiced switching run/bike/run/bike… over and over.

Response:

How soon to lose it..

admin — Fri, 24 May 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Oops, I still didn’t complete my thought. Anyway, for an elite athlete, sport specific detraining for more than 3 or 4 weeks will result in significant performance deterioration even with cross-training substitution; especially if detraining is the result of an injury or illness. Then there are times when some athletes find it beneficial to detrain over a 3 or 4 week period in order to alleviate mental burnout, or to recuperate from a long period of physical overtraining. In such cases, when training resumes, performance indicators might remain stable, and/or improve much more rapidly than otherwise expected. — Andrew A good friend will bail you out of jail, whereas a true friend will be sitting in the cell with you saying, "Dude, that was so f…ing awesome!"

Response:

I just found out I have a bronchial infection and have to take some time off both running and lifting. How long can I take off before I "lose" what I have gained. How do I come back safely?

I ran and lifted during a recent "flu", which I’m almost certain was a bronchial infection. Just at a lower intensity.

Response:

Jerry Freedman writes: I just found out I have a bronchial infection and have to take some time off both running and lifting. How long can I take off before I "lose" what I have gained. How do I come back safely? I ran and lifted during a recent "flu", which I’m almost certain was a bronchial infection. Just at a lower intensity.

I wouldn’t recommend doing that. Jerry: health first, strength second. -Wayne

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What does that mean? I lose 1/7 to 1/4 of my capillaries if I don’t train for a week to two months? That doesn’t seem reasonable. No it doesn’t "seem" reasonable considering it takes longer to develop capillarization than to loose it. It’s just not fair damn it!

No, my point was that it doesn’t seem reasonable that I can lose 1/7 of my capillaries in a week. That has nothing to do with the time it takes to grow them. Seth — Who cares? Shut up and lift. — Watson (the pencil neck) Davis

Response:

No, my point was that it doesn’t seem reasonable that I can lose 1/7 of my

capillaries in a week. That has nothing to do with the time it grow them. Hmmm…why doesn’t it "seem reasonable?" What’s your basis for reasonbleness? Ever had a fracture, and had to wear a splint for a couple of weeks? Visually, the muscle lost from "reduced" mobility is pretty significant. Ever had a broken bone that required a cast (no mobility) for 4 to 6 weeks. The visual loss of muscle is striking (as much as 30-40%), especially if the break was in the leg. Capillary loss, while not visually apparent, is just as great. There’s really nothing that "new" or "amazing" about loss of capillarization. If you’re that skepitcal (or interested), then read up on it. You’ll find info on building AND LOSING capillarization in texts by Costill, Costill & Wilmore, Brown, Coyle, Maglischo, Bompa and tons of other authors. Costill’s got examples of detraining cylist’s by stopping training but only with 1 leg! Also, there lots of older articles & abstracts (not much new stuff – this area was covered and beaten to death in the 30’s-40’s, again in the late 60’s-70’s; now the new stuff looks a drug enhanced capillarization rates): Klausen, Anderson, and Pelle, 1981. Adaptive changes in work capacity, skeletal muscle capillarization and enzme levels during training & detraining. Acta Physiologica Scandinavia, 113,9-16. Brodal, Ingjer, and hermansen. Capillary supply of skeletal muscle fibers in untrained and endurance trained men. Acta Physiologica Scandinavia, (Suppl. 440), 178, 296. Hermansen, and Wachlova, 1971. Capillary density of skeletal muscle in well-trained and untrained men. Journal of Applied Physiology, 30, 860-863. Carrow, Brown, and Van Huss, 1967. Fiber sizes and capillary to fiber ratios is skeletal muscles of of exercised rats. Anatomical Record, 159, 33-38. — Andrew A good friend will bail you out of jail, whereas a true friend will be sitting in the cell with you saying, "Dude, that was so f…ing awesome!"

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How long can I take off before I "lose" what I have gained. Aerobic capacity (VO2max) - 7% loss over 2 weeks, 16% loss over 12 weeks Aerobic enzymes – 10-50% over 2-6 weeks Stroke volume – 12% loss over 4 weeks Capillarization – 14-25% over 1-7 weeks Anaerobic capacity – 50% over 3 weeks Anaerobic enzymes – 0% over 4-12 weeks Lactate threshold - 8-10% loss over 4 weeks, 17% loss over 12 weeks Are these numbers based on being laid up couch potato style or just not

running. Most of the studies were based on being laid up couch potato style. Certainly, one can mitigate some of the effects of detraining by participating in other activites, but the old "principle of specificity" is tough to get around. Central caridiovascular effects (stroke volume, bp, etc.) are probably the easiest to maintain. Peripheral effects & adaptions (mitochondrial development; cellular myoglobin content; capillary density; glycogen, ATP & CP; lactate buffering capacity; protein content; etc.), on the other hand, are pretty difficult to maintain by switching sports. The best bet for an injured or vacationing athlete is to substitute a sport that is as close as possible to their regular sport; eg., swimming & rowing; running & water running; cross-country skiing & ice skating; missionary position & … — Andrew A good friend will bail you out of jail, whereas a true friend will be sitting in the cell with you saying, "Dude, that was so f…ing awesome!"

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just found out I have a bronchial infection and have to take some time off both running and lifting. How long can I take off before I "lose" what I have gained. How do I come back safely? J. Freedman,Jr An old training formula is that it takes as long to get back in shape as the time you took off. So if you took three weeks off it would take three weeks to be in the same condition. This concept seems to work up to about six weeks. Beyond that you’re pretty much starting over anyway, except that experienced runners or athletes know how to come back more quickly. Could you tell us why an infection would force you into zero activity? Can’t you walk fast or do something? My sarcastic side senses that your doctor is a sedentary type himself and wishes to play it safe because he is unfamiliar with what can be done.

I am in pretty rough shape. I am not down to zero activity but I can’t do much – I tire easily. I am afraid of any kind of relapse since this has been so miserable so I don’t want to force anything. J. Freedman,JR

Response:

…how long does it take to regain all of these losses? Is it faster than

getting there in the first place? Good question, but tough to answer. The short version is it depends upon his or her age, prior conditioning, and activity levels. It may also depend upon the reason he or she took the break from training: vacation, illness, injury, etc. Once lost, it usually takes most trained athletes 6-8 weeks to regain prior endurance training adaptions. While raw power & strength deteriorate rapidly, sprinting speed does not seem to be as affected as much by training breaks. Consequently, prior sprinting ability & prior lactate production levels can be regained rapidly. Why? There is no deterioration in anaerobic enzymes during detraining periods of less than 12 weeks. I’m not sure how lactate tolerance tolerance declines, however, since it’s closely related to anaeorbic capacity, I assume the body’s ability to buffer lactate deteriorates rapidly with detraining, and I suspect regaining buffering capacity lags 1-2 weeks behind general endurance adaptions (9-10 weeks). — Andrew A good friend will bail you out of jail, whereas a true friend will be sitting in the cell with you saying, "Dude, that was so f…ing awesome!"

Response:

How long can I take off before I "lose" what I have gained. Capillarization – 14-25% over 1-7 weeks

What does that mean? I lose 1/7 to 1/4 of my capillaries if I don’t train for a week to two months? That doesn’t seem reasonable. Seth — Don’t ever masturbate after getting capsaicin on your hands. — Patrick Arnold

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How long can I take off before I "lose" what I have gained. Aerobic capacity (VO2max) - 7% loss over 2 weeks, 16% loss over 12 weeks Aerobic enzymes – 10-50% over 2-6 weeks Stroke volume – 12% loss over 4 weeks Capillarization – 14-25% over 1-7 weeks Anaerobic capacity – 50% over 3 weeks Anaerobic enzymes – 0% over 4-12 weeks Lactate threshold - 8-10% loss over 4 weeks, 17% loss over 12 weeks — Andrew A good friend will bail you out of jail, whereas a true friend will be in the cell with you saying, "Dude, that was so f…ing awesome!"

Are these numbers based on being laid up couch potato style or just not running. If someone continues anarobic training I.E. cycling, swimming etc what kind of loss is there? ~Matt

Response:

What does that mean? I lose 1/7 to 1/4 of my capillaries if I don’t train

for a week to two months? That doesn’t seem reasonable. No it doesn’t "seem" reasonable considering it takes longer to develop capillarization than to loose it. It’s just not fair damn it! Anyway, a "non-endurance trained" athelete can realize around a 15% increase in capillarization over 8 or so weeks of intensive endurance training. After that, capillarization occurs more slowly and typically caps out with about a 40-50% increase after yeeaaarrrrssss of endurance training. — Andrew A good friend will bail you out of jail, whereas a true friend will be sitting in the cell with you saying, "Dude, that was so f…ing awesome!"

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Are you a bear? Do you hibernate?

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Are you a bear?

Give me your address and I’ll send you a stool sample, see if you can figure it out. "Make no mistake about it! Without humor, freedom would drive you insane." Bill I am so cool, that sheep count ME before they go to sleep. http://hometown.aol.com/mrrobottow/

Response:

I just found out I have a bronchial infection and have to take some time off both running and lifting. How long can I take off before I "lose" what I have gained. How do I come back safely? J. Freedman,Jr An old training formula is that it takes as long to get back in shape as the time you took off. So if you took three weeks off it would take three weeks to be in the same condition. This concept seems to work up to about six weeks. Beyond that you’re pretty much starting over anyway, except that experienced runners or athletes know how to come back more quickly.

This is incorrect. For example. Take a person with a baseline strength level. Have them lift weights for 1 year to reach a new level of strength. Now, have that person take 1 year off. It will not take them as long to reach that previous level of strength that had taken them iow 1 year, the first time. There are a host of reasons for this, but the concept is sound. Whit – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could you tell us why an infection would force you into zero activity? Can’t you walk fast or do something? My sarcastic side senses that your doctor is a sedentary type himself and wishes to play it safe because he is unfamiliar with what can be done.

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This is absurd, and completely wrong! I take the winter months off every season, that’s about 4 months with no activity. In the spring I am "back in shape" in less than a week. Long periods of no weight lifting has shown me the same kind of results. I guess it depends on the condition you are in to start with. Not everyone can be me. Could you tell us why an infection would force you into zero activity? Can’t you walk fast or do something? My sarcastic side senses that your doctor is a sedentary type himself and wishes to play it safe because he is unfamiliar with what can be done.

"Make no mistake about it! Without humor, freedom would drive you insane." Bill I am so cool, that sheep count ME before they go to sleep. http://hometown.aol.com/mrrobottow/

Response:

Enjoyed reading the information in the reply below.

Ignore that BS! Run when you feel better, if it helps keep running and if not stop. "Make no mistake about it! Without humor, freedom would drive you insane." Bill I am so cool, that sheep count ME before they go to sleep. http://hometown.aol.com/mrrobottow/

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This is advice from a man who wants you dead. Don’t run until 3 days AFTER your symptoms have abated. Then you’ll get to be as old, and possibly as stupid, as Robot.

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How long can I take off before I "lose" what I have gained. Aerobic capacity (VO2max) - 7% loss over 2 weeks, 16% loss over 12 weeks Aerobic enzymes – 10-50% over 2-6 weeks Stroke volume – 12% loss over 4 weeks Capillarization – 14-25% over 1-7 weeks Anaerobic capacity – 50% over 3 weeks Anaerobic enzymes – 0% over 4-12 weeks Lactate threshold - 8-10% loss over 4 weeks, 17% loss over 12 weeks

OK, I won’t argue with the actual numbers…. But, assuming they are correct, how long does it take to regain all of these losses? Is it faster than getting there in the first place? Cheers, Marcus

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How long can I take off before I "lose" what I have gained. Aerobic capacity (VO2max) - 7% loss over 2 weeks, 16% loss over 12 weeks Aerobic enzymes – 10-50% over 2-6 weeks Stroke volume – 12% loss over 4 weeks Capillarization – 14-25% over 1-7 weeks Anaerobic capacity – 50% over 3 weeks Anaerobic enzymes – 0% over 4-12 weeks Lactate threshold - 8-10% loss over 4 weeks, 17% loss over 12 weeks OK, I won’t argue with the actual numbers…. But, assuming they are correct, how long does it take to regain all of these losses?

Depends Is it faster than getting there in the first place? Cheers, Marcus

Yes. "Muscle Memory" and "Aerobix Memory" to coin a term are not myths. Whit – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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An old training formula is that it takes as long to get back in shape as the time you took off. So if you took three weeks off it would take three weeks to be in the same condition. This concept seems to work up to about six weeks. Beyond that you’re pretty much starting over anyway, except that experienced runners or athletes know how to come back more quickly. Could you tell us why an infection would force you into zero activity? Can’t you walk fast or do something? My sarcastic side senses that your doctor is a sedentary type himself and wishes to play it safe because he is unfamiliar with what can be done.

Response:

How long can I take off before I "lose" what I have gained.

Aerobic capacity (VO2max) - 7% loss over 2 weeks, 16% loss over 12 weeks Aerobic enzymes – 10-50% over 2-6 weeks Stroke volume – 12% loss over 4 weeks Capillarization – 14-25% over 1-7 weeks Anaerobic capacity – 50% over 3 weeks Anaerobic enzymes – 0% over 4-12 weeks Lactate threshold - 8-10% loss over 4 weeks, 17% loss over 12 weeks — Andrew A good friend will bail you out of jail, whereas a true friend will be in the cell with you saying, "Dude, that was so f…ing awesome!"

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Enjoyed reading the information in the reply below. And for a completely unscientific, personal answer to part of the original question, I recently took off from running for 5 weeks, after running regularly for more than 18 months: the first couple of weeks back on the road, I "felt" I had lost about a quarter of my running fitness base (approximated in my head only by breathing comfort half an hour into a run and how quickly I felt recovered after the run)…..this weekend, when I attempt my first 8-10 mile run since the break, I’ll get a little more information, I am sure. One of the things I was relieved to find is that feet and legs got right back into the routine of running with no strains, blisters or other ill effects from the layoff. -chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How long can I take off before I "lose" what I have gained. Aerobic capacity (VO2max) - 7% loss over 2 weeks, 16% loss over 12 weeks Aerobic enzymes – 10-50% over 2-6 weeks Stroke volume – 12% loss over 4 weeks Capillarization – 14-25% over 1-7 weeks Anaerobic capacity – 50% over 3 weeks Anaerobic enzymes – 0% over 4-12 weeks Lactate threshold - 8-10% loss over 4 weeks, 17% loss over 12 weeks — Andrew A good friend will bail you out of jail, whereas a true friend will be in the cell with you saying, "Dude, that was so f…ing awesome!"

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Good synopsis in terms of performance, but the original poster may have been referring to overall muscle mass, and how quickly he/she may atrophy. Its not really clear. d.

Response:

10K Heart Rate Creeping Upward…..

admin — Sun, 10 Feb 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I did run those earlier races flat out and I haven’t been weight training, so I like your last paragraph. What puzzled me was that I thought I couldn’t generate any more exertion points that I did in those earlier races, but I did. All things being equal, does that mean I’m fitter? I run a little smarter, like walking at water stops to drop my heart rate back a bit. The paradox is that this seems to enable me to generate more exertion points even with the same times. I’m going to put an extra run in during the week to improve training and watch my diet to see if I can get under 200 pounds. That might enable me to run faster generating the same number of increased exertion points. That’s really what I want to do. Thanks for your comments, I’m the only one in my running group who is a fanatic for keeping HR records! Best, Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What does it mean if your 10K times remain about the same, but your average heart rate gets higher and higher? I’ve done the Chinatown 10K in Los Angeles the past three years in about an hour (it’s very hilly), but my average heart rate (Polar Acurex) has gone up markedly (155, 160, 164) and my exertion points (again Polar system) have doubled! (179 to 309). I feel okay. My training has remained about the same and I’ve put on ten pounds, but can that result in such a difference? Let’s get this straight: Your times have not changed, but your heart rate is higher, and you weigh more? I’d surmise either one of two things: 1) Your cardiovascular fitness has improved, but this is offset by your increased weight. OR 2) Your cardiovascular fitness has not changed, but you are now working harder during races because of your increased weight. #2 Only makes sense if you were not running those earlier 10Ks "flat out". I’d guess that you are fitter, underneath what I’d imagine to be excess fat (unless you’ve been lifting weights and have gained muscle)…Lose the fat and you’ll run considerably faster… THUS SAYETH WithBACON

Response:

Tom, Your figures are right on! I think you’ve nailed it. Many thanks. The "Acurex Exertion points" reflect how much time you spend in the different zones, with the highest zones being weighted highest. I ran the Chinatown almost all in the anaerobic zone or above (the Maximal). What I am still a bit puzzled about was why I wasn’t to do this before. I surmise is that I have "trained" myself to run in the 90 + effort zone for an hour. But because of weight, I don’t go faster. This helps me resolve the paradox of being more fit, and yet not going faster. Or, another way, being more fit and yet working harder to get the same times. Still another way: Training should enable you to run the same times in lower zones (say the "fat burning" zone). But I am running the same times in higher zones, but I don’t think I am less fit except for weight. Best, Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – James went same speed, but HR went up… I don’t know what Polar Acurex "exertion points" are. However, if you put on ten points (let’s call that 7% body weight), and didn’t change running fitness, (roughly) your Heart Rate Reserve would be used up by about 7% relative to what you were at. Again, roughly: A: HRR = (HR – Resting HR)/(Max HR – Resting HR) as a percent. B: If VO2max (absolute, not per Kg) is fixed, same speed at 107% of pervious weight, VO2 (per Kg) would be 107/100 times as much… If your old performance was at 85% of HRR, you would now be working at 85*107/100 % = 90.95%. If your Max HR is 180 and RHR is 50, this would mean going from 160.5 to 168.2. Ball park works! Given all the assumptions in my calcs, I think you could still put it down to weight gain… …maybe loss of form at running heavier as well… But I could be wrong. Tom.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What does it mean if your 10K times remain about the same, but your average heart rate gets higher and higher? I’ve done the Chinatown 10K in Los Angeles the past three years in about an hour (it’s very hilly), but my average heart rate (Polar Acurex) has gone up markedly (155, 160, 164) and my exertion points (again Polar system) have doubled! (179 to 309). I feel okay. My training has remained about the same and I’ve put on ten pounds, but can that result in such a difference? Best, Jim Manley, Claremont, CA

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James went same speed, but HR went up… I don’t know what Polar Acurex "exertion points" are. However, if you put on ten points (let’s call that 7% body weight), and didn’t change running fitness, (roughly) your Heart Rate Reserve would be used up by about 7% relative to what you were at. Again, roughly: A: HRR = (HR – Resting HR)/(Max HR – Resting HR) as a percent. B: If VO2max (absolute, not per Kg) is fixed, same speed at 107% of pervious weight, VO2 (per Kg) would be 107/100 times as much… If your old performance was at 85% of HRR, you would now be working at 85*107/100 % = 90.95%. If your Max HR is 180 and RHR is 50, this would mean going from 160.5 to 168.2. Ball park works! Given all the assumptions in my calcs, I think you could still put it down to weight gain… …maybe loss of form at running heavier as well… But I could be wrong. Tom. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What does it mean if your 10K times remain about the same, but your average heart rate gets higher and higher? I’ve done the Chinatown 10K in Los Angeles the past three years in about an hour (it’s very hilly), but my average heart rate (Polar Acurex) has gone up markedly (155, 160, 164) and my exertion points (again Polar system) have doubled! (179 to 309). I feel okay. My training has remained about the same and I’ve put on ten pounds, but can that result in such a difference? Best, Jim Manley, Claremont, CA

Response:

Hey, I’m feelin’ better and better….Thanks! Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -James, As for item 6, sorry I can’t think of anything else right now. As for the "Sheesh" I do happen to know a 60+ year old that hits 200+. As a matter of fact we can do long runs at 180+ and the only difference being, he takes longer to get back down to 100 after the run. Roger Hey, thanks for the quick response: 1. Yes, I’m training a bit less than last year; my knee is almost back to norma. 2. Don’t think I was dehydrated. Stopped at all the water stops. 3. Weather is a bit warmer, yes…. 4. No way 5. Right 6. Yes, but what? As the the Sheesh, that’s great, but I am 60 years old. Thanks! Jim If you are running about the same speed and your HR goes up, there could be a few different reasons: 1. Your getting out of shape. 2. Your getting dehydrated 3. It is warmer than your last attempt 4. Your over training. 5. And yes I’m sure more weight could be a problem also. 6. I’m sure there are other reasons also. As for the 164. Sheesh that’s low. What does it mean if your 10K times remain about the same, but your average heart rate gets higher and higher? I’ve done the Chinatown 10K in Los Angeles the past three years in about an hour (it’s very hilly), but my average heart rate (Polar Acurex) has gone up markedly (155, 160, 164) and my exertion points (again Polar system) have doubled! (179 to 309). I feel okay. My training has remained about the same and I’ve put on ten pounds, but can that result in such a difference? Best, Jim Manley, Claremont, CA

Response:

James, As for item 6, sorry I can’t think of anything else right now. As for the "Sheesh" I do happen to know a 60+ year old that hits 200+. As a matter of fact we can do long runs at 180+ and the only difference being, he takes longer to get back down to 100 after the run. Roger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, thanks for the quick response: 1. Yes, I’m training a bit less than last year; my knee is almost back to norma. 2. Don’t think I was dehydrated. Stopped at all the water stops. 3. Weather is a bit warmer, yes…. 4. No way 5. Right 6. Yes, but what? As the the Sheesh, that’s great, but I am 60 years old. Thanks! Jim If you are running about the same speed and your HR goes up, there could be a few different reasons: 1. Your getting out of shape. 2. Your getting dehydrated 3. It is warmer than your last attempt 4. Your over training. 5. And yes I’m sure more weight could be a problem also. 6. I’m sure there are other reasons also. As for the 164. Sheesh that’s low. What does it mean if your 10K times remain about the same, but your average heart rate gets higher and higher? I’ve done the Chinatown 10K in Los Angeles the past three years in about an hour (it’s very hilly), but my average heart rate (Polar Acurex) has gone up markedly (155, 160, 164) and my exertion points (again Polar system) have doubled! (179 to 309). I feel okay. My training has remained about the same and I’ve put on ten pounds, but can that result in such a difference? Best, Jim Manley, Claremont, CA

Response:

What does it mean if your 10K times remain about the same, but your average heart rate gets higher and higher? I’ve done the Chinatown 10K in Los Angeles the past three years in about an hour (it’s very hilly), but my average heart rate (Polar Acurex) has gone up markedly (155, 160, 164) and my exertion points (again Polar system) have doubled! (179 to 309). I feel okay. My training has remained about the same and I’ve put on ten pounds, but can that result in such a difference?

Let’s get this straight: Your times have not changed, but your heart rate is higher, and you weigh more? I’d surmise either one of two things: 1) Your cardiovascular fitness has improved, but this is offset by your increased weight. OR 2) Your cardiovascular fitness has not changed, but you are now working harder during races because of your increased weight. #2 Only makes sense if you were not running those earlier 10Ks "flat out". I’d guess that you are fitter, underneath what I’d imagine to be excess fat (unless you’ve been lifting weights and have gained muscle)…Lose the fat and you’ll run considerably faster… THUS SAYETH WithBACON

Response:

Hey, thanks for the quick response: 1. Yes, I’m training a bit less than last year; my knee is almost back to norma. 2. Don’t think I was dehydrated. Stopped at all the water stops. 3. Weather is a bit warmer, yes…. 4. No way 5. Right 6. Yes, but what? As the the Sheesh, that’s great, but I am 60 years old. Thanks! Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -If you are running about the same speed and your HR goes up, there could be a few different reasons: 1. Your getting out of shape. 2. Your getting dehydrated 3. It is warmer than your last attempt 4. Your over training. 5. And yes I’m sure more weight could be a problem also. 6. I’m sure there are other reasons also. As for the 164. Sheesh that’s low. What does it mean if your 10K times remain about the same, but your average heart rate gets higher and higher? I’ve done the Chinatown 10K in Los Angeles the past three years in about an hour (it’s very hilly), but my average heart rate (Polar Acurex) has gone up markedly (155, 160, 164) and my exertion points (again Polar system) have doubled! (179 to 309). I feel okay. My training has remained about the same and I’ve put on ten pounds, but can that result in such a difference? Best, Jim Manley, Claremont, CA

Response:

If you are running about the same speed and your HR goes up, there could be a few different reasons: 1. Your getting out of shape. 2. Your getting dehydrated 3. It is warmer than your last attempt 4. Your over training. 5. And yes I’m sure more weight could be a problem also. 6. I’m sure there are other reasons also. As for the 164. Sheesh that’s low. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What does it mean if your 10K times remain about the same, but your average heart rate gets higher and higher? I’ve done the Chinatown 10K in Los Angeles the past three years in about an hour (it’s very hilly), but my average heart rate (Polar Acurex) has gone up markedly (155, 160, 164) and my exertion points (again Polar system) have doubled! (179 to 309). I feel okay. My training has remained about the same and I’ve put on ten pounds, but can that result in such a difference? Best, Jim Manley, Claremont, CA

Response:

Any preferred time to start speed work/intervals?

admin — Wed, 16 Jan 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Spend a few years running and entering some 10k’s and 10 milers. I’d set up for your first 10k sometime in the spring without doing any speed work. Once you are in the racing scene then begin to incorporate speed work. Focus on Boston MAYBE in 2003. Doug Burke – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My prime exercise is cycling (I do it 6-7 days a week at 150-250 miles/week), and in cycling it’s recommended you don’t do interval training until you’ve built up your aerobic base. That could be anywhere from a few hundred miles to a couple of thousand miles depending on your conditioning. I picked up running in October and currently run 3 times a week. I started off with short distances but am now up to 6.5 miles. It’s taken 4 months to get there, but I didn’t want to go too far too fast. I’ll stick at a distance and wait at least two weeks before going further, and usually only after I beat a set goal time. My current "progress time" is an 8 minute mile or better. Sometime down the road I’d love to qualify for the Boston marathon, but the time needed seems out of sight. I’m 32, and if I recall, I’d need to run a 3:10 to qualify. That means I need to run a 7:15 mile for the duration. Right now that seems out of sight, so I need to get some speed. From a running sense, is there a pre-determined time when to start speed work? Should you log a certain number of miles, be in a certain condition? Thanks, James

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My prime exercise is cycling (I do it 6-7 days a week at 150-250 miles/week), and in cycling it’s recommended you don’t do interval training until you’ve built up your aerobic base. That could be anywhere from a few hundred miles to a couple of thousand miles depending on your conditioning. I picked up running in October and currently run 3 times a week. I started off with short distances but am now up to 6.5 miles. It’s taken 4 months to get there, but I didn’t want to go too far too fast. I’ll stick at a distance and wait at least two weeks before going further, and usually only after I beat a set goal time. My current "progress time" is an 8 minute mile or better. Sometime down the road I’d love to qualify for the Boston marathon, but the time needed seems out of sight. I’m 32, and if I recall, I’d need to run a 3:10 to qualify. That means I need to run a 7:15 mile for the duration. Right now that seems out of sight, so I need to get some speed. From a running sense, is there a pre-determined time when to start speed work? Should you log a certain number of miles, be in a certain condition? Thanks, James

If you want to qualify for Boston, you have to recognize that running — not bicycling — must become your main focus. A 3:10 marathon is just too demanding to be achievable as a sideline activity unless you are an unusually gifted athlete. Also, the muscular development in your legs resulting from bicycle training may be counterproductive to running a marathon. Given that you’re willing to do this, speed work is probably not what you are most in need of. Establishing aerobic endurance and getting your ligaments and bones to the point where you can withstand the training load are the first order of business. You’re probably getting pretty well up to speed on the first point. The second one takes much longer — at least a year. Having said this, it’s always a good time to do speed work. The question is not when to start but what and how much to do. Given that the Marathon is your goal distance, strides and Fartlek mixed in with your regular runs is probably a good way to start. Add tempo runs as your running fitness improves. Interval work is always OK, but go easy in the beginning and don’t let cut into your aerobic training too deeply. You should probably get to the point where you’re covering about 35 miles per week before shifting your emphasis away from aerobic training. Hill work is OK, but I’m guessing that muscular strength in your legs is not a problem given your bicycling background. Good luck! Hope to be reading about your Boston experience someday!

Response:

Waiting to build a solid running base just like a cyclist would is highly recommended. As a cyclist moving to running, your aerobic system has some adjustments to make but your muscular-skeletal system is right now your weakest link. You’ll probably feel like you have the wind to run fast but the body needs to adapt to running. I follow the "train 1 1/2 to 2 minutes per mile slower than you could race" program for my easy and long runs, otherwise I find that I run too fast on a daily basis. I’ve seen suggested that speed work not be entered into until a full year of regular running and that it be preceded by hill-work to strengthen and prepare the body for the transition from base-building to speed. These are cookie-cutter answers as each of us has different abilities, but this is a number i’ve seen from Jeff Gallway and Hal Higdon, who are both involved in prepping large numbers of people for racing various distances but mostly marathons. The one type of speed work that one can usually practice with little ill effect, I think, is occasional racing. Depending on where you live, you may find races nearly every weekend spring-fall. It’s easy for me, and I think others experience the same thing, to race too often and for me every other week is too much; every three or four weeks is what I do and haven’t yet had problems maintaining health at this frequency. As to Boston, I’m running shorter races again this year (my third year running), from 5k to 1/2 marathon to gain more racing experience then making a boston qualifying try at Grandma’s Marathon in Duluth, MN in June 2003. enjoy your running, bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My prime exercise is cycling (I do it 6-7 days a week at 150-250 miles/week), and in cycling it’s recommended you don’t do interval training until you’ve built up your aerobic base. That could be anywhere from a few hundred miles to a couple of thousand miles depending on your conditioning. I picked up running in October and currently run 3 times a week. I started off with short distances but am now up to 6.5 miles. It’s taken 4 months to get there, but I didn’t want to go too far too fast. I’ll stick at a distance and wait at least two weeks before going further, and usually only after I beat a set goal time. My current "progress time" is an 8 minute mile or better. Sometime down the road I’d love to qualify for the Boston marathon, but the time needed seems out of sight. I’m 32, and if I recall, I’d need to run a 3:10 to qualify. That means I need to run a 7:15 mile for the duration. Right now that seems out of sight, so I need to get some speed. From a running sense, is there a pre-determined time when to start speed work? Should you log a certain number of miles, be in a certain condition? Thanks, James

Response:

My prime exercise is cycling (I do it 6-7 days a week at 150-250 miles/week), and in cycling it’s recommended you don’t do interval training until you’ve built up your aerobic base. That could be anywhere from a few hundred miles to a couple of thousand miles depending on your conditioning. I picked up running in October and currently run 3 times a week. I started off with short distances but am now up to 6.5 miles. It’s taken 4 months to get there, but I didn’t want to go too far too fast. I’ll stick at a distance and wait at least two weeks before going further, and usually only after I beat a set goal time. My current "progress time" is an 8 minute mile or better. Sometime down the road I’d love to qualify for the Boston marathon, but the time needed seems out of sight. I’m 32, and if I recall, I’d need to run a 3:10 to qualify. That means I need to run a 7:15 mile for the duration. Right now that seems out of sight, so I need to get some speed. From a running sense, is there a pre-determined time when to start speed work? Should you log a certain number of miles, be in a certain condition? Thanks, James