Run Run Away

Question:

I did run those earlier races flat out and I haven’t been weight training, so I like your last paragraph. What puzzled me was that I thought I couldn’t generate any more exertion points that I did in those earlier races, but I did. All things being equal, does that mean I’m fitter? I run a little smarter, like walking at water stops to drop my heart rate back a bit. The paradox is that this seems to enable me to generate more exertion points even with the same times. I’m going to put an extra run in during the week to improve training and watch my diet to see if I can get under 200 pounds. That might enable me to run faster generating the same number of increased exertion points. That’s really what I want to do. Thanks for your comments, I’m the only one in my running group who is a fanatic for keeping HR records! Best, Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What does it mean if your 10K times remain about the same, but your average heart rate gets higher and higher? I’ve done the Chinatown 10K in Los Angeles the past three years in about an hour (it’s very hilly), but my average heart rate (Polar Acurex) has gone up markedly (155, 160, 164) and my exertion points (again Polar system) have doubled! (179 to 309). I feel okay. My training has remained about the same and I’ve put on ten pounds, but can that result in such a difference? Let’s get this straight: Your times have  not changed, but your heart rate is higher, and you weigh more? I’d surmise either one of two things: 1) Your cardiovascular fitness has improved, but this is offset by your increased weight. OR 2) Your cardiovascular fitness has not changed, but you are now working harder during races because of your increased weight. #2  Only makes sense if you were not running those earlier 10Ks "flat out". I’d guess that you are fitter, underneath what I’d imagine to be excess fat (unless you’ve been lifting weights and have gained muscle)…Lose the fat and you’ll run considerably faster… THUS SAYETH WithBACON

Response:

Tom, Your figures are right on! I think you’ve nailed it. Many thanks. The "Acurex Exertion points" reflect how much time you spend in the different zones, with the highest zones being weighted highest. I ran the Chinatown almost all in the anaerobic zone or above (the Maximal).  What I am still a bit puzzled about was why I wasn’t to do this before. I surmise is that I have "trained" myself to run in the 90 + effort zone for an hour. But because of weight, I don’t go faster. This helps me resolve the paradox of being more fit, and yet not going faster. Or, another way, being more fit and yet working harder to get the same times. Still another way: Training should enable you to run the same times in lower zones (say the "fat burning" zone). But I am running the same times in higher zones, but I don’t think I am less fit except for weight. Best, Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – James went same speed, but HR went up… I don’t know what Polar Acurex "exertion points" are. However, if you put on ten points (let’s call that 7% body weight), and didn’t change running fitness, (roughly) your Heart Rate Reserve would be used up by about 7% relative to what you were at. Again, roughly: A:   HRR = (HR – Resting HR)/(Max HR – Resting HR) as a percent. B:   If VO2max (absolute, not per Kg) is fixed, same speed at 107% of pervious weight, VO2 (per Kg) would be 107/100 times as much… If your old performance was at 85% of HRR, you would now be working at 85*107/100 % = 90.95%. If your Max HR is 180 and RHR is 50, this would mean going from 160.5 to 168.2. Ball park works! Given all the assumptions in my calcs, I think you could still put it down to weight gain…    …maybe loss of form at running heavier as well… But I could be wrong. Tom.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What does it mean if your 10K times remain about the same, but your average heart rate gets higher and higher? I’ve done the Chinatown 10K in Los Angeles the past three years in about an hour (it’s very hilly), but my average heart rate (Polar Acurex) has gone up markedly (155, 160, 164) and my exertion points (again Polar system) have doubled! (179 to 309). I feel okay. My training has remained about the same and I’ve put on ten pounds, but can that result in such a difference? Best, Jim Manley, Claremont, CA

Response:

James went same speed, but HR went up… I don’t know what Polar Acurex "exertion points" are. However, if you put on ten points (let’s call that 7% body weight), and didn’t change running fitness, (roughly) your Heart Rate Reserve would be used up by about 7% relative to what you were at. Again, roughly: A:   HRR = (HR – Resting HR)/(Max HR – Resting HR) as a percent. B:   If VO2max (absolute, not per Kg) is fixed, same speed at 107% of pervious weight, VO2 (per Kg) would be 107/100 times as much… If your old performance was at 85% of HRR, you would now be working at 85*107/100 % = 90.95%. If your Max HR is 180 and RHR is 50, this would mean going from 160.5 to 168.2. Ball park works! Given all the assumptions in my calcs, I think you could still put it down to weight gain…    …maybe loss of form at running heavier as well… But I could be wrong. Tom. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What does it mean if your 10K times remain about the same, but your average heart rate gets higher and higher? I’ve done the Chinatown 10K in Los Angeles the past three years in about an hour (it’s very hilly), but my average heart rate (Polar Acurex) has gone up markedly (155, 160, 164) and my exertion points (again Polar system) have doubled! (179 to 309). I feel okay. My training has remained about the same and I’ve put on ten pounds, but can that result in such a difference? Best, Jim Manley, Claremont, CA

Response:

Hey, I’m feelin’ better and better….Thanks! Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -James, As for item 6, sorry I can’t think of anything else right now. As for the "Sheesh" I do happen to know a 60+ year old that hits 200+.  As a matter of fact we can do long runs at 180+ and the only difference being, he takes longer to get back down to 100 after the run. Roger Hey, thanks for the quick response: 1. Yes,  I’m training a bit less than last year; my knee is almost back to norma. 2. Don’t think I was dehydrated. Stopped at all the water stops. 3. Weather is a bit warmer, yes…. 4. No way 5. Right 6. Yes, but what? As the the Sheesh, that’s great, but I am 60 years old. Thanks! Jim If you are running about the same speed and your HR goes up, there could be a few different reasons: 1.  Your getting out of shape. 2.  Your getting dehydrated 3.  It is warmer than your last attempt 4.  Your over training. 5.  And yes I’m sure more weight could be a problem also. 6.  I’m sure there are other reasons also. As for the 164.  Sheesh that’s low. What does it mean if your 10K times remain about the same, but your average heart rate gets higher and higher? I’ve done the Chinatown 10K in Los Angeles the past three years in about an hour (it’s very hilly), but my average heart rate (Polar Acurex) has gone up markedly (155, 160, 164) and my exertion points (again Polar system) have doubled! (179 to 309). I feel okay. My training has remained about the same and I’ve put on ten pounds, but can that result in such a difference? Best, Jim Manley, Claremont, CA

Response:

James, As for item 6, sorry I can’t think of anything else right now. As for the "Sheesh" I do happen to know a 60+ year old that hits 200+.  As a matter of fact we can do long runs at 180+ and the only difference being, he takes longer to get back down to 100 after the run. Roger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, thanks for the quick response: 1. Yes,  I’m training a bit less than last year; my knee is almost back to norma. 2. Don’t think I was dehydrated. Stopped at all the water stops. 3. Weather is a bit warmer, yes…. 4. No way 5. Right 6. Yes, but what? As the the Sheesh, that’s great, but I am 60 years old. Thanks! Jim If you are running about the same speed and your HR goes up, there could be a few different reasons: 1.  Your getting out of shape. 2.  Your getting dehydrated 3.  It is warmer than your last attempt 4.  Your over training. 5.  And yes I’m sure more weight could be a problem also. 6.  I’m sure there are other reasons also. As for the 164.  Sheesh that’s low. What does it mean if your 10K times remain about the same, but your average heart rate gets higher and higher? I’ve done the Chinatown 10K in Los Angeles the past three years in about an hour (it’s very hilly), but my average heart rate (Polar Acurex) has gone up markedly (155, 160, 164) and my exertion points (again Polar system) have doubled! (179 to 309). I feel okay. My training has remained about the same and I’ve put on ten pounds, but can that result in such a difference? Best, Jim Manley, Claremont, CA

Response:

What does it mean if your 10K times remain about the same, but your average heart rate gets higher and higher? I’ve done the Chinatown 10K in Los Angeles the past three years in about an hour (it’s very hilly), but my average heart rate (Polar Acurex) has gone up markedly (155, 160, 164) and my exertion points (again Polar system) have doubled! (179 to 309). I feel okay. My training has remained about the same and I’ve put on ten pounds, but can that result in such a difference?

Let’s get this straight: Your times have  not changed, but your heart rate is higher, and you weigh more? I’d surmise either one of two things: 1) Your cardiovascular fitness has improved, but this is offset by your increased weight. OR 2) Your cardiovascular fitness has not changed, but you are now working harder during races because of your increased weight. #2  Only makes sense if you were not running those earlier 10Ks "flat out". I’d guess that you are fitter, underneath what I’d imagine to be excess fat (unless you’ve been lifting weights and have gained muscle)…Lose the fat and you’ll run considerably faster… THUS SAYETH WithBACON

Response:

Hey, thanks for the quick response: 1. Yes,  I’m training a bit less than last year; my knee is almost back to norma. 2. Don’t think I was dehydrated. Stopped at all the water stops. 3. Weather is a bit warmer, yes…. 4. No way 5. Right 6. Yes, but what? As the the Sheesh, that’s great, but I am 60 years old. Thanks! Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -If you are running about the same speed and your HR goes up, there could be a few different reasons: 1.  Your getting out of shape. 2.  Your getting dehydrated 3.  It is warmer than your last attempt 4.  Your over training. 5.  And yes I’m sure more weight could be a problem also. 6.  I’m sure there are other reasons also. As for the 164.  Sheesh that’s low. What does it mean if your 10K times remain about the same, but your average heart rate gets higher and higher? I’ve done the Chinatown 10K in Los Angeles the past three years in about an hour (it’s very hilly), but my average heart rate (Polar Acurex) has gone up markedly (155, 160, 164) and my exertion points (again Polar system) have doubled! (179 to 309). I feel okay. My training has remained about the same and I’ve put on ten pounds, but can that result in such a difference? Best, Jim Manley, Claremont, CA

Response:

What does it mean if your 10K times remain about the same, but your average heart rate gets higher and higher? I’ve done the Chinatown 10K in Los Angeles the past three years in about an hour (it’s very hilly), but my average heart rate (Polar Acurex) has gone up markedly (155, 160, 164) and my exertion points (again Polar system) have doubled! (179 to 309). I feel okay. My training has remained about the same and I’ve put on ten pounds, but can that result in such a difference? Best, Jim Manley, Claremont, CA

Response:

If you are running about the same speed and your HR goes up, there could be a few different reasons: 1.  Your getting out of shape. 2.  Your getting dehydrated 3.  It is warmer than your last attempt 4.  Your over training. 5.  And yes I’m sure more weight could be a problem also. 6.  I’m sure there are other reasons also. As for the 164.  Sheesh that’s low. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What does it mean if your 10K times remain about the same, but your average heart rate gets higher and higher? I’ve done the Chinatown 10K in Los Angeles the past three years in about an hour (it’s very hilly), but my average heart rate (Polar Acurex) has gone up markedly (155, 160, 164) and my exertion points (again Polar system) have doubled! (179 to 309). I feel okay. My training has remained about the same and I’ve put on ten pounds, but can that result in such a difference? Best, Jim Manley, Claremont, CA

Response: