Run Run Away

Question:

Well, today’s 10k was the most important race of a six-race series that I am a part of this summer. I am desparately trying to place in my age group for the whole series, but with all these Kenyans coming out of the woodwork it is very hard. Anyway, I knew I had to run sub-37 to get anywhere, and so off I went at the prescribed pace. Actually, I went out a little fast, but nothing like my usual dumbness. Ironically at the time I was actually pleased at my relative restaint. After 3km I realized that I was going nowhere, and getting slower by the minute. Running suddenly seemed very, very hard. Too hard. Goal pace was 3:41/km. My initial splits were 3:32, 3:39, and 3:41. That’s when I lost it and ran a 4:10, in which I walked a bit, because I was running horribly. I have no excuse. Something happened and I don’t know what it was. When I basically jogged in to the 5k marker at 19:41 I lost all interest in my running abilities, because apparently they were gone. I decided to at least make something out of the fiasco by standing and waiting a few seconds for Mark Collis to catch up so I could run with him. He appeared within a very short time. Mark was running quite well, but I will let him post his own report if he cares to, and not give any of his details away other than commenting that I ran the rest of the race with him. It’s quite clear that I need coaching to get anywhere with this little hobby I have become so consumed with, so that is what I will do. I’m getting pissed off at my increasingly erratic times. I must be training incorrectly. Tomorrow morning I am going to call one of the local running clubs (H.O.C. – the most serious and competitive one) and see if I can do something about this, because I am starting to think I can’t take this much further without some guidance. I have a lot of desire to run faster, and it’s frustrating knowing I could be going about everything the wrong way. Thanks for reading. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

Response:

One thing is you need to relax a little and another is you seem to race a lot.  It is easy to get psyched in this sport and overrace and overtrain if you are prone to that.  A sign of overracing is that "flat" feeling or the blahs.  I make seasons for myself so that I peak, then run easy for a while and then peak again.  Anyway, good luck and don’t get down – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, today’s 10k was the most important race of a six-race series that I am a part of this summer. I am desparately trying to place in my age group for the whole series, but with all these Kenyans coming out of the woodwork it is very hard. Anyway, I knew I had to run sub-37 to get anywhere, and so off I went at the prescribed pace. Actually, I went out a little fast, but nothing like my usual dumbness. Ironically at the time I was actually pleased at my relative restaint. After 3km I realized that I was going nowhere, and getting slower by the minute. Running suddenly seemed very, very hard. Too hard. Goal pace was 3:41/km. My initial splits were 3:32, 3:39, and 3:41. That’s when I lost it and ran a 4:10, in which I walked a bit, because I was running horribly. I have no excuse. Something happened and I don’t know what it was. When I basically jogged in to the 5k marker at 19:41 I lost all interest in my running abilities, because apparently they were gone. I decided to at least make something out of the fiasco by standing and waiting a few seconds for Mark Collis to catch up so I could run with him. He appeared within a very short time. Mark was running quite well, but I will let him post his own report if he cares to, and not give any of his details away other than commenting that I ran the rest of the race with him. It’s quite clear that I need coaching to get anywhere with this little hobby I have become so consumed with, so that is what I will do. I’m getting pissed off at my increasingly erratic times. I must be training incorrectly. Tomorrow morning I am going to call one of the local running clubs (H.O.C. – the most serious and competitive one) and see if I can do something about this, because I am starting to think I can’t take this much further without some guidance. I have a lot of desire to run faster, and it’s frustrating knowing I could be going about everything the wrong way. Thanks for reading. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

David Olsen

Response:

Chin up Dave, With the amount of progress you have made over the past year, I would think you were entitled to a "bad" day or two! I can relate to your "little hobby I have become so consumed with", it is a bit like that. Good luck with the running club! Cheers, Phil. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, today’s 10k was the most important race of a six-race series that I am a part of this summer. I am desparately trying to place in my age group for the whole series, but with all these Kenyans coming out of the woodwork it is very hard. Anyway, I knew I had to run sub-37 to get anywhere, and so off I went at the prescribed pace. Actually, I went out a little fast, but nothing like my usual dumbness. Ironically at the time I was actually pleased at my relative restaint. After 3km I realized that I was going nowhere, and getting slower by the minute. Running suddenly seemed very, very hard. Too hard. Goal pace was 3:41/km. My initial splits were 3:32, 3:39, and 3:41. That’s when I lost it and ran a 4:10, in which I walked a bit, because I was running horribly. I have no excuse. Something happened and I don’t know what it was. When I basically jogged in to the 5k marker at 19:41 I lost all interest in my running abilities, because apparently they were gone. I decided to at least make something out of the fiasco by standing and waiting a few seconds for Mark Collis to catch up so I could run with him. He appeared within a very short time. Mark was running quite well, but I will let him post his own report if he cares to, and not give any of his details away other than commenting that I ran the rest of the race with him. It’s quite clear that I need coaching to get anywhere with this little hobby I have become so consumed with, so that is what I will do. I’m getting pissed off at my increasingly erratic times. I must be training incorrectly. Tomorrow morning I am going to call one of the local running clubs (H.O.C. – the most serious and competitive one) and see if I can do something about this, because I am starting to think I can’t take this much further without some guidance. I have a lot of desire to run faster, and it’s frustrating knowing I could be going about everything the wrong way. Thanks for reading. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

Response:

David, From what little I know, read, talked about with friends…. The simple truth is, some days everything just stinks. Many times there is no reason, nothing you can put your finger on. Anyway, keep on keeping on. Leo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, today’s 10k was the most important race of a six-race series that I am a part of this summer. I am desparately trying to place in my age group for the whole series, but with all these Kenyans coming out of the woodwork it is very hard. Anyway, I knew I had to run sub-37 to get anywhere, and so off I went at the prescribed pace. Actually, I went out a little fast, but nothing like my usual dumbness. Ironically at the time I was actually pleased at my relative restaint. After 3km I realized that I was going nowhere, and getting slower by the minute. Running suddenly seemed very, very hard. Too hard. Goal pace was 3:41/km. My initial splits were 3:32, 3:39, and 3:41. That’s when I lost it and ran a 4:10, in which I walked a bit, because I was running horribly. I have no excuse. Something happened and I don’t know what it was. When I basically jogged in to the 5k marker at 19:41 I lost all interest in my running abilities, because apparently they were gone. I decided to at least make something out of the fiasco by standing and waiting a few seconds for Mark Collis to catch up so I could run with him. He appeared within a very short time. Mark was running quite well, but I will let him post his own report if he cares to, and not give any of his details away other than commenting that I ran the rest of the race with him. It’s quite clear that I need coaching to get anywhere with this little hobby I have become so consumed with, so that is what I will do. I’m getting pissed off at my increasingly erratic times. I must be training incorrectly. Tomorrow morning I am going to call one of the local running clubs (H.O.C. – the most serious and competitive one) and see if I can do something about this, because I am starting to think I can’t take this much further without some guidance. I have a lot of desire to run faster, and it’s frustrating knowing I could be going about everything the wrong way. Thanks for reading. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

Response:

David- That sux… Sorry about that… I know you were pretty keyed for this race… My two cents (what’s that convert to in Canadian dollars?… Even less I think…) for what it’s worth: You’ve been humpin’ hard since before that marathon, and haven’t really let up much that I can see, including essentially not taking any time off after the ‘thon… Two days if I remember right? And the ‘thon was a month ago and you’ve raced how many?… Three, four times since?  Yow!  You have been, IMHO, amazingly fortunate to not get injured and/or burned out.  But, I think it may be starting to catch up with you.  I’ve seen the pictures on your web site, and you do in fact appear to be human … I would agree that you probably need some better hands-on coaching and advice… Somebody you can just sorta blindly follow.  It gets much easier to train when you don’t hafta put alotta effort into thinking up and planning out workouts. In the meantime, please please please give yourself a break… I suspect you need one… Take a couple weeks and just run slow, easy, short miles… I know you think those are junk miles, but they really aren’t… They are a chance for your body to take a breather, heal up little injuries, and for your mind to uncork a bit.  Forget the speed, forget the tempos, forget the long runs…  Just chill.  I see you putting a lot of pressure on yourself to perform, but that can be a double edged sword… A two week break would do a world of good for you… You won’t lose much, and when you come back I think you will quickly rebound and find yourself running better than ever… Just from my own personal experience, I took one of these little breaks back in April… I had run the Cooper River Bridge Run 10K on April 7th… A PR, but just barely, and I hadn’t felt good doing it… Kinda run down, a hip flexor problem… Lots of aches and pain… Speed workouts that were struggles… The signs were there.  So I logged a couple of low 30 mile weeks, just slogging easy miles.  Less than a month later I was one second off my 5K PR in a race that I entered on a whim and really didn’t give 100% to… And workouts have been going much better since that break as well… So, like I said, this is all just IMHO… I think you have a great deal of ability, but you may be reaching the point of diminishing returns without some real expertise…  Sorry about the bonk in the race… Those things happen… -Chazzer

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, today’s 10k was the most important race of a six-race series that I am a part of this summer. I am desparately trying to place in my age group for the whole series, but with all these Kenyans coming out of the woodwork it is very hard. Anyway, I knew I had to run sub-37 to get anywhere, and so off I went at the prescribed pace. Actually, I went out a little fast, but nothing like my usual dumbness. Ironically at the time I was actually pleased at my relative restaint. After 3km I realized that I was going nowhere, and getting slower by the minute. Running suddenly seemed very, very hard. Too hard. Goal pace was 3:41/km. My initial splits were 3:32, 3:39, and 3:41. That’s when I lost it and ran a 4:10, in which I walked a bit, because I was running horribly. I have no excuse. Something happened and I don’t know what it was. When I basically jogged in to the 5k marker at 19:41 I lost all interest in my running abilities, because apparently they were gone. I decided to at least make something out of the fiasco by standing and waiting a few seconds for Mark Collis to catch up so I could run with him. He appeared within a very short time. Mark was running quite well, but I will let him post his own report if he cares to, and not give any of his details away other than commenting that I ran the rest of the race with him. It’s quite clear that I need coaching to get anywhere with this little hobby I have become so consumed with, so that is what I will do. I’m getting pissed off at my increasingly erratic times. I must be training incorrectly. Tomorrow morning I am going to call one of the local running clubs (H.O.C. – the most serious and competitive one) and see if I can do something about this, because I am starting to think I can’t take this much further without some guidance. I have a lot of desire to run faster, and it’s frustrating knowing I could be going about everything the wrong way. Thanks for reading. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

Response:

I have a lot of desire to run faster, and it’s frustrating knowing I could be going about everything the wrong way.

So you know what I’ve felt like a few times now. It is hard to explain why there is not a steady improvement, and why sometimes it looks like I’ve lost ground in some races. When I see the people that are a lot faster than I am, all I can think is they have been running a lot longer, and probably more per week also. As for the last race where I wore myself further than ever.  I’ll be staying away from that hill for a couple weeks. Roger

Response:

Thanks for the post, Chazzer. Unfortunately I have not been overtraining. My last week was 18km total. This current week will be similar (below 25km). The 2 weeks before that were 87km and 75km, respectively; to give you an idea of my regular mileage these days. To taper more than that would be to not run at all. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David- That sux… Sorry about that… I know you were pretty keyed for this race… My two cents (what’s that convert to in Canadian dollars?… Even less I think…) for what it’s worth: You’ve been humpin’ hard since before that marathon, and haven’t really let up much that I can see, including essentially not taking any time off after the ‘thon… Two days if I remember right? And the ‘thon was a month ago and you’ve raced how many?… Three, four times since?  Yow!  You have been, IMHO, amazingly fortunate to not get injured and/or burned out.  But, I think it may be starting to catch up with you.  I’ve seen the pictures on your web site, and you do in fact appear to be human … I would agree that you probably need some better hands-on coaching and advice… Somebody you can just sorta blindly follow.  It gets much easier to train when you don’t hafta put alotta effort into thinking up and planning out workouts. In the meantime, please please please give yourself a break… I suspect you need one… Take a couple weeks and just run slow, easy, short miles… I know you think those are junk miles, but they really aren’t… They are a chance for your body to take a breather, heal up little injuries, and for your mind to uncork a bit.  Forget the speed, forget the tempos, forget the long runs…  Just chill.  I see you putting a lot of pressure on yourself to perform, but that can be a double edged sword… A two week break would do a world of good for you… You won’t lose much, and when you come back I think you will quickly rebound and find yourself running better than ever… Just from my own personal experience, I took one of these little breaks back in April… I had run the Cooper River Bridge Run 10K on April 7th… A PR, but just barely, and I hadn’t felt good doing it… Kinda run down, a hip flexor problem… Lots of aches and pain… Speed workouts that were struggles… The signs were there.  So I logged a couple of low 30 mile weeks, just slogging easy miles.  Less than a month later I was one second off my 5K PR in a race that I entered on a whim and really didn’t give 100% to… And workouts have been going much better since that break as well… So, like I said, this is all just IMHO… I think you have a great deal of ability, but you may be reaching the point of diminishing returns without some real expertise…  Sorry about the bonk in the race… Those things happen… -Chazzer Well, today’s 10k was the most important race of a six-race series that I am a part of this summer. I am desparately trying to place in my age group for the whole series, but with all these Kenyans coming out of the woodwork it is very hard. Anyway, I knew I had to run sub-37 to get anywhere, and so off I went at the prescribed pace. Actually, I went out a little fast, but nothing like my usual dumbness. Ironically at the time I was actually pleased at my relative restaint. After 3km I realized that I was going nowhere, and getting slower by the minute. Running suddenly seemed very, very hard. Too hard. Goal pace was 3:41/km. My initial splits were 3:32, 3:39, and 3:41. That’s when I lost it and ran a 4:10, in which I walked a bit, because I was running horribly. I have no excuse. Something happened and I don’t know what it was. When I basically jogged in to the 5k marker at 19:41 I lost all interest in my running abilities, because apparently they were gone. I decided to at least make something out of the fiasco by standing and waiting a few seconds for Mark Collis to catch up so I could run with him. He appeared within a very short time. Mark was running quite well, but I will let him post his own report if he cares to, and not give any of his details away other than commenting that I ran the rest of the race with him. It’s quite clear that I need coaching to get anywhere with this little hobby I have become so consumed with, so that is what I will do. I’m getting pissed off at my increasingly erratic times. I must be training incorrectly. Tomorrow morning I am going to call one of the local running clubs (H.O.C. – the most serious and competitive one) and see if I can do something about this, because I am starting to think I can’t take this much further without some guidance. I have a lot of desire to run faster, and it’s frustrating knowing I could be going about everything the wrong way. Thanks for reading. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

Response:

Yeah well, I sure picked a bad day to have a bad day…. this race was fairly important. Oh well. I have a chance to redeem myself at the Canada Day 5k on the evening of July 1. It is being run on my practice loop. I would seriously estimate I have ran this particular course (both ways) enough to total somewhere around 1000km, at paces from intervals to MP and everything in between. Still, it will be next to impossible to beat my time from last week. That was just a perfect day for me. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Chin up Dave, With the amount of progress you have made over the past year, I would think you were entitled to a "bad" day or two! I can relate to your "little hobby I have become so consumed with", it is a bit like that. Good luck with the running club! Cheers, Phil. Well, today’s 10k was the most important race of a six-race series that I am a part of this summer. I am desparately trying to place in my age group for the whole series, but with all these Kenyans coming out of the woodwork it is very hard. Anyway, I knew I had to run sub-37 to get anywhere, and so off I went at the prescribed pace. Actually, I went out a little fast, but nothing like my usual dumbness. Ironically at the time I was actually pleased at my relative restaint. After 3km I realized that I was going nowhere, and getting slower by the minute. Running suddenly seemed very, very hard. Too hard. Goal pace was 3:41/km. My initial splits were 3:32, 3:39, and 3:41. That’s when I lost it and ran a 4:10, in which I walked a bit, because I was running horribly. I have no excuse. Something happened and I don’t know what it was. When I basically jogged in to the 5k marker at 19:41 I lost all interest in my running abilities, because apparently they were gone. I decided to at least make something out of the fiasco by standing and waiting a few seconds for Mark Collis to catch up so I could run with him. He appeared within a very short time. Mark was running quite well, but I will let him post his own report if he cares to, and not give any of his details away other than commenting that I ran the rest of the race with him. It’s quite clear that I need coaching to get anywhere with this little hobby I have become so consumed with, so that is what I will do. I’m getting pissed off at my increasingly erratic times. I must be training incorrectly. Tomorrow morning I am going to call one of the local running clubs (H.O.C. – the most serious and competitive one) and see if I can do something about this, because I am starting to think I can’t take this much further without some guidance. I have a lot of desire to run faster, and it’s frustrating knowing I could be going about everything the wrong way. Thanks for reading. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

Response:

Yeah well, I sure picked a bad day to have a bad day…. this race was fairly important.

Why? Do you need the money, you could have won there? Oh well. I have a chance to redeem myself at the Canada Day 5k on the evening of July 1.

There was some good advise given in this group – take a rest. You seem to ignore it. [snip] "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire."

But you are trying hard to do it (burning out). Matthias

Response:

David, You may not have overtrained in the sense that your mileage is fairly low, but you may have been overracing. A marathon and several races in a few weeks counts as a lot of racing. And those races take a greater toll on the body than twice their distance in training. In any case, you deserve a rest! As far as I know, most runners (including top ones) take some time off after a ‘thon, and then go back to base training to rebuild. This time off will make you much stronger in the mid- or even short-term than training through this rougher period. I agree will all that Chazzer wrote. The mind needs a break too. Good luck, Daniel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the post, Chazzer. Unfortunately I have not been overtraining. My last week was 18km total. This current week will be similar (below 25km). The 2 weeks before that were 87km and 75km, respectively; to give you an idea of my regular mileage these days. To taper more than that would be to not run at all. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html – David- That sux… Sorry about that… I know you were pretty keyed for this race… My two cents (what’s that convert to in Canadian dollars?… Even less I think…) for what it’s worth: You’ve been humpin’ hard since before that marathon, and haven’t really let up much that I can see, including essentially not taking any time off after the ‘thon… Two days if I remember right? And the ‘thon was a month ago and you’ve raced how many?… Three, four times since?  Yow!  You have been, IMHO, amazingly fortunate to not get injured and/or burned out.  But, I think it may be starting to catch up with you.  I’ve seen the pictures on your web site, and you do in fact appear to be human … I would agree that you probably need some better hands-on coaching and advice… Somebody you can just sorta blindly follow.  It gets much easier to train when you don’t hafta put alotta effort into thinking up and planning out workouts. In the meantime, please please please give yourself a break… I suspect you need one… Take a couple weeks and just run slow, easy, short miles… I know you think those are junk miles, but they really aren’t… They are a chance for your body to take a breather, heal up little injuries, and for your mind to uncork a bit.  Forget the speed, forget the tempos, forget the long runs…  Just chill.  I see you putting a lot of pressure on yourself to perform, but that can be a double edged sword… A two week break would do a world of good for you… You won’t lose much, and when you come back I think you will quickly rebound and find yourself running better than ever… Just from my own personal experience, I took one of these little breaks back in April… I had run the Cooper River Bridge Run 10K on April 7th… A PR, but just barely, and I hadn’t felt good doing it… Kinda run down, a hip flexor problem… Lots of aches and pain… Speed workouts that were struggles… The signs were there.  So I logged a couple of low 30 mile weeks, just slogging easy miles.  Less than a month later I was one second off my 5K PR in a race that I entered on a whim and really didn’t give 100% to… And workouts have been going much better since that break as well… So, like I said, this is all just IMHO… I think you have a great deal of ability, but you may be reaching the point of diminishing returns without some real expertise…  Sorry about the bonk in the race… Those things happen… -Chazzer Well, today’s 10k was the most important race of a six-race series that I am a part of this summer. I am desparately trying to place in my age group for the whole series, but with all these Kenyans coming out of the woodwork it is very hard. Anyway, I knew I had to run sub-37 to get anywhere, and so off I went at the prescribed pace. Actually, I went out a little fast, but nothing like my usual dumbness. Ironically at the time I was actually pleased at my relative restaint. After 3km I realized that I was going nowhere, and getting slower by the minute. Running suddenly seemed very, very hard. Too hard. Goal pace was 3:41/km. My initial splits were 3:32, 3:39, and 3:41. That’s when I lost it and ran a 4:10, in which I walked a bit, because I was running horribly. I have no excuse. Something happened and I don’t know what it was. When I basically jogged in to the 5k marker at 19:41 I lost all interest in my running abilities, because apparently they were gone. I decided to at least make something out of the fiasco by standing and waiting a few seconds for Mark Collis to catch up so I could run with him. He appeared within a very short time. Mark was running quite well, but I will let him post his own report if he cares to, and not give any of his details away other than commenting that I ran the rest of the race with him. It’s quite clear that I need coaching to get anywhere with this little hobby I have become so consumed with, so that is what I will do. I’m getting pissed off at my increasingly erratic times. I must be training incorrectly. Tomorrow morning I am going to call one of the local running clubs (H.O.C. – the most serious and competitive one) and see if I can do something about this, because I am starting to think I can’t take this much further without some guidance. I have a lot of desire to run faster, and it’s frustrating knowing I could be going about everything the wrong way. Thanks for reading. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

Response:

You’re mileage may be down the last couple weeks… But considering you ran a ‘thon on the 27th of May I think you probably should have taken the month of June much easier than you did, IMO… And mileage by itself doesn’t necessarily reflect how easy or hard your running… There’s a rule of thumb that says something to the effect that no more the 20% of your mileage should be speed ( I think that’s right… If anyone wants to correct me, I won’t be offended)… So as way of example, if you are heading toward a low-20 K week this week, but you raced a 10K last night, you are pushing 50%… Last week you ran three days… One day a race, one day a tempo, one day easy… Not much mileage, but proportionally too much speed. Regardless, my point is I think you could benefit from a break… It’s not gonna kill you… It may seem like it at the moment, but it really won’t … And it should be as much a mental break as a physical one… I can tell from your posts you are putting an awful lot of pressure on yourself… Just be careful… I’ve been down this road myself and am trying to share my wisdom… Regards, Old fart Chazzer

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the post, Chazzer. Unfortunately I have not been overtraining. My last week was 18km total. This current week will be similar (below 25km). The 2 weeks before that were 87km and 75km, respectively; to give you an idea of my regular mileage these days. To taper more than that would be to not run at all. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html – David- That sux… Sorry about that… I know you were pretty keyed for this race… My two cents (what’s that convert to in Canadian dollars?… Even less I think…) for what it’s worth: You’ve been humpin’ hard since before that marathon, and haven’t really let up much that I can see, including essentially not taking any time off after the ‘thon… Two days if I remember right? And the ‘thon was a month ago and you’ve raced how many?… Three, four times since?  Yow!  You have been, IMHO, amazingly fortunate to not get injured and/or burned out.  But, I think it may be starting to catch up with you.  I’ve seen the pictures on your web site, and you do in fact appear to be human … I would agree that you probably need some better hands-on coaching and advice… Somebody you can just sorta blindly follow.  It gets much easier to train when you don’t hafta put alotta effort into thinking up and planning out workouts. In the meantime, please please please give yourself a break… I suspect you need one… Take a couple weeks and just run slow, easy, short miles… I know you think those are junk miles, but they really aren’t… They are a chance for your body to take a breather, heal up little injuries, and for your mind to uncork a bit.  Forget the speed, forget the tempos, forget the long runs…  Just chill.  I see you putting a lot of pressure on yourself to perform, but that can be a double edged sword… A two week break would do a world of good for you… You won’t lose much, and when you come back I think you will quickly rebound and find yourself running better than ever… Just from my own personal experience, I took one of these little breaks back in April… I had run the Cooper River Bridge Run 10K on April 7th… A PR, but just barely, and I hadn’t felt good doing it… Kinda run down, a hip flexor problem… Lots of aches and pain… Speed workouts that were struggles… The signs were there.  So I logged a couple of low 30 mile weeks, just slogging easy miles.  Less than a month later I was one second off my 5K PR in a race that I entered on a whim and really didn’t give 100% to… And workouts have been going much better since that break as well… So, like I said, this is all just IMHO… I think you have a great deal of ability, but you may be reaching the point of diminishing returns without some real expertise…  Sorry about the bonk in the race… Those things happen… -Chazzer Well, today’s 10k was the most important race of a six-race series that I am a part of this summer. I am desparately trying to place in my age group for the whole series, but with all these Kenyans coming out of the woodwork it is very hard. Anyway, I knew I had to run sub-37 to get anywhere, and so off I went at the prescribed pace. Actually, I went out a little fast, but nothing like my usual dumbness. Ironically at the time I was actually pleased at my relative restaint. After 3km I realized that I was going nowhere, and getting slower by the minute. Running suddenly seemed very, very hard. Too hard. Goal pace was 3:41/km. My initial splits were 3:32, 3:39, and 3:41. That’s when I lost it and ran a 4:10, in which I walked a bit, because I was running horribly. I have no excuse. Something happened and I don’t know what it was. When I basically jogged in to the 5k marker at 19:41 I lost all interest in my running abilities, because apparently they were gone. I decided to at least make something out of the fiasco by standing and waiting a few seconds for Mark Collis to catch up so I could run with him. He appeared within a very short time. Mark was running quite well, but I will let him post his own report if he cares to, and not give any of his details away other than commenting that I ran the rest of the race with him. It’s quite clear that I need coaching to get anywhere with this little hobby I have become so consumed with, so that is what I will do. I’m getting pissed off at my increasingly erratic times. I must be training incorrectly. Tomorrow morning I am going to call one of the local running clubs (H.O.C. – the most serious and competitive one) and see if I can do something about this, because I am starting to think I can’t take this much further without some guidance. I have a lot of desire to run faster, and it’s frustrating knowing I could be going about everything the wrong way. Thanks for reading. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

Response:

You’re mileage may be down the last couple weeks… But considering you ran a ‘thon on the 27th of May I think you probably should have taken the month of June much easier than you did, IMO… And mileage by itself doesn’t necessarily reflect how easy or hard your running… There’s a rule of thumb that says something to the effect that no more the 20% of your mileage should be speed

Usually it’s more accurately broken down into VO2max intervals (8%) and tempo/threshold (10%). ( I think that’s right… If anyone – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – wants to correct me, I won’t be offended)… So as way of example, if you are heading toward a low-20 K week this week, but you raced a 10K last night, you are pushing 50%… Last week you ran three days… One day a race, one day a tempo, one day easy… Not much mileage, but proportionally too much speed. Regardless, my point is I think you could benefit from a break… It’s not gonna kill you… It may seem like it at the moment, but it really won’t … And it should be as much a mental break as a physical one… I can tell from your posts you are putting an awful lot of pressure on yourself… Just be careful… I’ve been down this road myself and am trying to share my wisdom… Regards, Old fart Chazzer Thanks for the post, Chazzer. Unfortunately I have not been overtraining. My last week was 18km total. This current week will be similar (below 25km). The 2 weeks before that were 87km and 75km, respectively; to give you an idea of my regular mileage these days. To taper more than that would be to not run at all. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html – David- That sux… Sorry about that… I know you were pretty keyed for this race… My two cents (what’s that convert to in Canadian dollars?… Even less I think…) for what it’s worth: You’ve been humpin’ hard since before that marathon, and haven’t really let up much that I can see, including essentially not taking any time off after the ‘thon… Two days if I remember right? And the ‘thon was a month ago and you’ve raced how many?… Three, four times since?  Yow!  You have been, IMHO, amazingly fortunate to not get injured and/or burned out.  But, I think it may be starting to catch up with you.  I’ve seen the pictures on your web site, and you do in fact appear to be human … I would agree that you probably need some better hands-on coaching and advice… Somebody you can just sorta blindly follow.  It gets much easier to train when you don’t hafta put alotta effort into thinking up and planning out workouts. In the meantime, please please please give yourself a break… I suspect you need one… Take a couple weeks and just run slow, easy, short miles… I know you think those are junk miles, but they really aren’t… They are a chance for your body to take a breather, heal up little injuries, and for your mind to uncork a bit.  Forget the speed, forget the tempos, forget the long runs…  Just chill.  I see you putting a lot of pressure on yourself to perform, but that can be a double edged sword… A two week break would do a world of good for you… You won’t lose much, and when you come back I think you will quickly rebound and find yourself running better than ever… Just from my own personal experience, I took one of these little breaks back in April… I had run the Cooper River Bridge Run 10K on April 7th… A PR, but just barely, and I hadn’t felt good doing it… Kinda run down, a hip flexor problem… Lots of aches and pain… Speed workouts that were struggles… The signs were there.  So I logged a couple of low 30 mile weeks, just slogging easy miles.  Less than a month later I was one second off my 5K PR in a race that I entered on a whim and really didn’t give 100% to… And workouts have been going much better since that break as well… So, like I said, this is all just IMHO… I think you have a great deal of ability, but you may be reaching the point of diminishing returns without some real expertise…  Sorry about the bonk in the race… Those things happen… -Chazzer Well, today’s 10k was the most important race of a six-race series that I am a part of this summer. I am desparately trying to place in my age group for the whole series, but with all these Kenyans coming out of the woodwork it is very hard. Anyway, I knew I had to run sub-37 to get anywhere, and so off I went at the prescribed pace. Actually, I went out a little fast, but nothing like my usual dumbness. Ironically at the time I was actually pleased at my relative restaint. After 3km I realized that I was going nowhere, and getting slower by the minute. Running suddenly seemed very, very hard. Too hard. Goal pace was 3:41/km. My initial splits were 3:32, 3:39, and 3:41. That’s when I lost it and ran a 4:10, in which I walked a bit, because I was running horribly. I have no excuse. Something happened and I don’t know what it was. When I basically jogged in to the 5k marker at 19:41 I lost all interest in my running abilities, because apparently they were gone. I decided to at least make something out of the fiasco by standing and waiting a few seconds for Mark Collis to catch up so I could run with him. He appeared within a very short time. Mark was running quite well, but I will let him post his own report if he cares to, and not give any of his details away other than commenting that I ran the rest of the race with him. It’s quite clear that I need coaching to get anywhere with this little hobby I have become so consumed with, so that is what I will do. I’m getting pissed off at my increasingly erratic times. I must be training incorrectly. Tomorrow morning I am going to call one of the local running clubs (H.O.C. – the most serious and competitive one) and see if I can do something about this, because I am starting to think I can’t take this much further without some guidance. I have a lot of desire to run faster, and it’s frustrating knowing I could be going about everything the wrong way. Thanks for reading. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

Response:

Hang in there, David. Plenty of good advice has been given here already, so I can’t offer much more. A break from the racing and hard training could do wonders for you. Take a deep breath, relax for a bit, and you’ll find that you can break through those barriers, or rise above that plateau you feel you have reached. A running club and coaching can do the trick, too. Go for it! And have fun, fercryinoutloud….. Cam

Response:

Hi David, I’m sorry to hear that you’re race didn’t go so well. From experience with other sports, I can tell you that there can be a let down after having a career best day. It happens in a lot of sports and it happens to the best of them. Think about it: you completely crushed your PR just a few days or week before. Who knows how much it took from you. I recommend treating your next race like it’s a training event and try to run at 18 to 18+ nice and easy. You mentioned before that you felt that a 18 min pace felt very "fast" for you. Why not work on making an 18 min pace seem easier to you? I suggest taking it down just a notch or two. It’s evident to me that you simply have been racing too hard. Best of luck! Tony Mueller – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, today’s 10k was the most important race of a six-race series that I am a part of this summer. I am desparately trying to place in my age group for the whole series, but with all these Kenyans coming out of the woodwork it is very hard. Anyway, I knew I had to run sub-37 to get anywhere, and so off I went at the prescribed pace. Actually, I went out a little fast, but nothing like my usual dumbness. Ironically at the time I was actually pleased at my relative restaint. After 3km I realized that I was going nowhere, and getting slower by the minute. Running suddenly seemed very, very hard. Too hard. Goal pace was 3:41/km. My initial splits were 3:32, 3:39, and 3:41. That’s when I lost it and ran a 4:10, in which I walked a bit, because I was running horribly. I have no excuse. Something happened and I don’t know what it was. When I basically jogged in to the 5k marker at 19:41 I lost all interest in my running abilities, because apparently they were gone. I decided to at least make something out of the fiasco by standing and waiting a few seconds for Mark Collis to catch up so I could run with him. He appeared within a very short time. Mark was running quite well, but I will let him post his own report if he cares to, and not give any of his details away other than commenting that I ran the rest of the race with him. It’s quite clear that I need coaching to get anywhere with this little hobby I have become so consumed with, so that is what I will do. I’m getting pissed off at my increasingly erratic times. I must be training incorrectly. Tomorrow morning I am going to call one of the local running clubs (H.O.C. – the most serious and competitive one) and see if I can do something about this, because I am starting to think I can’t take this much further without some guidance. I have a lot of desire to run faster, and it’s frustrating knowing I could be going about everything the wrong way. Thanks for reading. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html

Response:

There’s a rule of thumb that says something to the effect that no more the 20% of your mileage should be speed

There’s another rule of thumb, which says you should wait 1 day between races, for every mile you race.  In other words, about 4 weeks with no racing after a marathon.  I believe I read it in Higdon’s work once.  It relates to the significant stress and focus required to run a successful race. On the other hand, it may have been a bad day for friend David.  Next race will tell more.  If two in a row are stinkers, then there might be something to it. (He didn’t post his time, but if you double his 5k time his "bad race" would still have been nearly 5 minutes better than my PR.  Everything’s relative.  One man’s bad day is another’s dream.) — Lorne Sundby Edmonton, Canada (Come visit Aug 3-12, for the 2001 World Championships in Athletics.)

Response:

Yeah well, I sure picked a bad day to have a bad day…. this race was fairly important. Why? Do you need the money, you could have won there?

No, it was the biggest race of a 6 race cumulative points  series. Did you read my post when I originally explained that, or ….. maybe not…? Oh well. I have a chance to redeem myself at the Canada Day 5k on the evening of July 1. There was some good advise given in this group – take a rest. You seem to ignore it.

Advice is spelled with a ‘c’. There’s some  advice for you! Yay, this is soooo much fun! [snip] "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." But you are trying hard to do it (burning out).

Any reason for the rudeness in you post?  Did you just get in a fight with the girlfriend and need to vent? I don’t recall cutting you up in a previous post. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

Response:

Thanks for the informed, well-thought out reply, Chazzer. I got me some thinkin’ to do…. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re mileage may be down the last couple weeks… But considering you ran a ‘thon on the 27th of May I think you probably should have taken the month of June much easier than you did, IMO… And mileage by itself doesn’t necessarily reflect how easy or hard your running… There’s a rule of thumb that says something to the effect that no more the 20% of your mileage should be speed ( I think that’s right… If anyone wants to correct me, I won’t be offended)… So as way of example, if you are heading toward a low-20 K week this week, but you raced a 10K last night, you are pushing 50%… Last week you ran three days… One day a race, one day a tempo, one day easy… Not much mileage, but proportionally too much speed. Regardless, my point is I think you could benefit from a break… It’s not gonna kill you… It may seem like it at the moment, but it really won’t … And it should be as much a mental break as a physical one… I can tell from your posts you are putting an awful lot of pressure on yourself… Just be careful… I’ve been down this road myself and am trying to share my wisdom… Regards, Old fart Chazzer Thanks for the post, Chazzer. Unfortunately I have not been overtraining. My last week was 18km total. This current week will be similar (below 25km). The 2 weeks before that were 87km and 75km, respectively; to give you an idea of my regular mileage these days. To taper more than that would be to not run at all. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html – David- That sux… Sorry about that… I know you were pretty keyed for this race… My two cents (what’s that convert to in Canadian dollars?… Even less I think…) for what it’s worth: You’ve been humpin’ hard since before that marathon, and haven’t really let up much that I can see, including essentially not taking any time off after the ‘thon… Two days if I remember right? And the ‘thon was a month ago and you’ve raced how many?… Three, four times since?  Yow!  You have been, IMHO, amazingly fortunate to not get injured and/or burned out.  But, I think it may be starting to catch up with you.  I’ve seen the pictures on your web site, and you do in fact appear to be human … I would agree that you probably need some better hands-on coaching and advice… Somebody you can just sorta blindly follow.  It gets much easier to train when you don’t hafta put alotta effort into thinking up and planning out workouts. In the meantime, please please please give yourself a break… I suspect you need one… Take a couple weeks and just run slow, easy, short miles… I know you think those are junk miles, but they really aren’t… They are a chance for your body to take a breather, heal up little injuries, and for your mind to uncork a bit.  Forget the speed, forget the tempos, forget the long runs…  Just chill.  I see you putting a lot of pressure on yourself to perform, but that can be a double edged sword… A two week break would do a world of good for you… You won’t lose much, and when you come back I think you will quickly rebound and find yourself running better than ever… Just from my own personal experience, I took one of these little breaks back in April… I had run the Cooper River Bridge Run 10K on April 7th… A PR, but just barely, and I hadn’t felt good doing it… Kinda run down, a hip flexor problem… Lots of aches and pain… Speed workouts that were struggles… The signs were there.  So I logged a couple of low 30 mile weeks, just slogging easy miles.  Less than a month later I was one second off my 5K PR in a race that I entered on a whim and really didn’t give 100% to… And workouts have been going much better since that break as well… So, like I said, this is all just IMHO… I think you have a great deal of ability, but you may be reaching the point of diminishing returns without some real expertise…  Sorry about the bonk in the race… Those things happen… -Chazzer Well, today’s 10k was the most important race of a six-race series that I am a part of this summer. I am desparately trying to place in my age group for the whole series, but with all these Kenyans coming out of the woodwork it is very hard. Anyway, I knew I had to run sub-37 to get anywhere, and so off I went at the prescribed pace. Actually, I went out a little fast, but nothing like my usual dumbness. Ironically at the time I was actually pleased at my relative restaint. After 3km I realized that I was going nowhere, and getting slower by the minute. Running suddenly seemed very, very hard. Too hard. Goal pace was 3:41/km. My initial splits were 3:32, 3:39, and 3:41. That’s when I lost it and ran a 4:10, in which I walked a bit, because I was running horribly. I have no excuse. Something happened and I don’t know what it was. When I basically jogged in to the 5k marker at 19:41 I lost all interest in my running abilities, because apparently they were gone. I decided to at least make something out of the fiasco by standing and waiting a few seconds for Mark Collis to catch up so I could run with him. He appeared within a very short time. Mark was running quite well, but I will let him post his own report if he cares to, and not give any of his details away other than commenting that I ran the rest of the race with him. It’s quite clear that I need coaching to get anywhere with this little hobby I have become so consumed with, so that is what I will do. I’m getting pissed off at my increasingly erratic times. I must be training incorrectly. Tomorrow morning I am going to call one of the local running clubs (H.O.C. – the most serious and competitive one) and see if I can do something about this, because I am starting to think I can’t take this much further without some guidance. I have a lot of desire to run faster, and it’s frustrating knowing I could be going about everything the wrong way. Thanks for reading. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

Response:

Thanks, Cam – I’ve been actively spending most of today looking for a coach. I have a few promising leads! — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html – – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hang in there, David. Plenty of good advice has been given here already, so I can’t offer much more. A break from the racing and hard training could do wonders for you. Take a deep breath, relax for a bit, and you’ll find that you can break through those barriers, or rise above that plateau you feel you have reached. A running club and coaching can do the trick, too. Go for it! And have fun, fercryinoutloud….. Cam

Response:

Hi Tony, Yeah, I suppose there is wisdom in your words. I find it hard to race without giving it my all. I will have to address this issue. However, it should be noted that I only ran 3 hard km’s yesterday. Once I knew I was having a bad day, my first thought was to stop and save myself for the next race. I think I did that well, anyway. My legs feel fresh. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html –

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi David, I’m sorry to hear that you’re race didn’t go so well. From experience with other sports, I can tell you that there can be a let down after having a career best day. It happens in a lot of sports and it happens to the best of them. Think about it: you completely crushed your PR just a few days or week before. Who knows how much it took from you. I recommend treating your next race like it’s a training event and try to run at 18 to 18+ nice and easy. You mentioned before that you felt that a 18 min pace felt very "fast" for you. Why not work on making an 18 min pace seem easier to you? I suggest taking it down just a notch or two. It’s evident to me that you simply have been racing too hard. Best of luck! Tony Mueller Well, today’s 10k was the most important race of a six-race series that I am a part of this summer. I am desparately trying to place in my age group for the whole series, but with all these Kenyans coming out of the woodwork it is very hard. Anyway, I knew I had to run sub-37 to get anywhere, and so off I went at the prescribed pace. Actually, I went out a little fast, but nothing like my usual dumbness. Ironically at the time I was actually pleased at my relative restaint. After 3km I realized that I was going nowhere, and getting slower by the minute. Running suddenly seemed very, very hard. Too hard. Goal pace was 3:41/km. My initial splits were 3:32, 3:39, and 3:41. That’s when I lost it and ran a 4:10, in which I walked a bit, because I was running horribly. I have no excuse. Something happened and I don’t know what it was. When I basically jogged in to the 5k marker at 19:41 I lost all interest in my running abilities, because apparently they were gone. I decided to at least make something out of the fiasco by standing and waiting a few seconds for Mark Collis to catch up so I could run with him. He appeared within a very short time. Mark was running quite well, but I will let him post his own report if he cares to, and not give any of his details away other than commenting that I ran the rest of the race with him. It’s quite clear that I need coaching to get anywhere with this little hobby I have become so consumed with, so that is what I will do. I’m getting pissed off at my increasingly erratic times. I must be training incorrectly. Tomorrow morning I am going to call one of the local running clubs (H.O.C. – the most serious and competitive one) and see if I can do something about this, because I am starting to think I can’t take this much further without some guidance. I have a lot of desire to run faster, and it’s frustrating knowing I could be going about everything the wrong way. Thanks for reading. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html

Response:

Hi David, Giving it your all is certainly very admirable. It’s a great quality. I also think you did the smart thing by not pushing it too much when it wasn’t your day. I don’t know if this makes sense, but how about doing some 5K’s in training with targets of 18:30 or so? Get good and consistent and try to get in the same ballpark with ease. Do these routinely if you need to. It seems to me that your speed work is really great and has been the difference in your progress, but perhaps you need to work on the level just below top speed, which will save you when it’s just not physically possible to give it your all… Anyway, I think you will be fine and I *know* you will bounce back. You’re doing great! Tony Mueller PS. If you feel pysically strong, I see no reason why you should cut back on training. However, maybe you need to mix up your practice routine a bit. Just a suggestion….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Tony, Yeah, I suppose there is wisdom in your words. I find it hard to race without giving it my all. I will have to address this issue. However, it should be noted that I only ran 3 hard km’s yesterday. Once I knew I was having a bad day, my first thought was to stop and save myself for the next race. I think I did that well, anyway. My legs feel fresh. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html – Hi David, I’m sorry to hear that you’re race didn’t go so well. From experience with other sports, I can tell you that there can be a let down after having a career best day. It happens in a lot of sports and it happens to the best of them. Think about it: you completely crushed your PR just a few days or week before. Who knows how much it took from you. I recommend treating your next race like it’s a training event and try to run at 18 to 18+ nice and easy. You mentioned before that you felt that a 18 min pace felt very "fast" for you. Why not work on making an 18 min pace seem easier to you? I suggest taking it down just a notch or two. It’s evident to me that you simply have been racing too hard. Best of luck! Tony Mueller Well, today’s 10k was the most important race of a six-race series that I am a part of this summer. I am desparately trying to place in my age group for the whole series, but with all these Kenyans coming out of the woodwork it is very hard. Anyway, I knew I had to run sub-37 to get anywhere, and so off I went at the prescribed pace. Actually, I went out a little fast, but nothing like my usual dumbness. Ironically at the time I was actually pleased at my relative restaint.

Response:

No, it was the biggest race of a 6 race cumulative points series.

Would, say, a 10th place in this race have given more points than a 10th place in the other races of the series? Why? Does this particular race attract a larger or better field of runners? If so, shouldn