Run Run Away

Question:

thanks, Lowtuc. yeah, i can’t *wait* til i can "hit the wall" for the first time  :-) as for ultras and 6 hour runs, i don’t think i’ll be going there. that’s a bit (a lot) much for me. i’ll see how my marathon goes in October and take it from there. if it super-inspires me, then i’ll train through winter (after all!) and run another next May. i’m happy for now, though….. Cam

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – to train on water for long distance. then  if  gu well do good for you in a pre race run. to try and find what works with. the long run. Gu might get you from the 1 hour to two hour area. thou the wall is a round the bend.:) I hit the wall so any times.  one day I walk thru it. and then again      LSD  ( long slow distance )thru it . Sort of like the  2  and 3 mile   runs  way    back   then.   this works  for me . I  am  not  fast  thou  my distance is not  bad.:)  Back when  I  could go  for  5  or 6  hours  running  a friend here  had a big H  atack at Mt wash, or rainer, somewhere.  over 17 hours running  or something.  No more running for him(his recovery is allmost magical)  I Said to self. O Keey  dok  ey   big  guy.   So  I can’t.   and  back  off this was back in winter time..    see we all have are horse to X.?.so he said… I want to do  a ultra in september. now just hangging. 10 miles a week   well start trainin  for 50 mile run.in september.   good luck to your long run  cam.            Lowtuc Godspeed,

Response:

Yow… Yeh, it’s gotta be the heat… 90 degrees with humidity is a tough one… You are a braver man than I… In that sorta heat I generally don’t ever attempt more than seven, maybe nine miles very max, which is just slightly more than an hour of running… Even with hydration and GU, your body is really gonna struggle to keep cool, especially if the humidity is high… So I don’t know what else you could have done differently other than change when you run. You training for a ‘thon?… This is a tough time of year to be doing long stuff… -Chazzer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night I went out for my long run of the week. I thought I was in good shape for it. I had (reasonably) hydrated the day before, and continued drinking fluids the day-of, as well. I stuck to the usual day-of foods, too, so nothing to worry about – right? Wrong. The plan was to do 1:45, an "easy" week for me (down from last week’s 2:00 LSD). Anyway, things were going fine until about the last third (or quarter… it felt so bad that my mind wasn’t working well) of the run. I had been sipping water regularly (at least I thought so), and was doing my regular shots of GU (about every 20-25 min.). Maybe I should mention that it was a sunny and humid 33 degrees Celcius – that’s around 90 F. Anyway, the body was crashing. It started with my knees aching incredibly. Then that aching seemed to spread to the rest of my legs…. I couldn’t pinpoint a center of pain after that. Then my stomach started acting up. I took more water, but it wasn’t helping. My last GU was vanilla – warm – and tasted terrible…. and it burned to swallow it. I ended up spitting the crap out. I could barely swallow it anyway. I *almost* thought I was going to spew a couple of times, but didn’t. This has NEVER happened before. It wasn’t like I had never run this distance before; in fact, I’ve exceeded it many times. So…. was this dehydration? Or what? It felt terrible, and the worst of it was that I had to *walk* a good portion of that last leg to my car  :-)   I can normally handle the leg ache that accompanies the last bit of a LSD, and still finish decently. Help, help, help….. I don’t want to repeat this episode. On the upside, I recovered pretty well. I drank every last bit of water I had with me, did some good stretches, downed my nice cool Gatorade stash from my car during the drive home, ate a carb/protein dinner, cold showered the legs, massaged the legs and then iced them while watching tv. A couple of ibuprofen to ensure the aches wouldn’t wake me during sleep. I feel as good as any other "day after" today. Many thanks for advice from any others who’ve been through this – and I suspect there are many  :-) Cam

Response:

thanks for the thoughts, George. i’ve done my own experimenting, too, and i have found that the GU helps me. when i first got into the longer runs, i found that just water wasn’t doing it for me. the leg muscles just screamed for the last part of the run. some GU seemed to help me avoid that "bonking" feeling, and i could continue for much longer. as someone else suggested, i think the extreme heat just did me in. i did my usual water and gel routine – which always works – but to no avail. there are varying opinions on the necessity/usefulness of fuel intake during long runs. i  think the different schools of thought simply stem from different bodies being capable of different things. as you say, "every body is different". thanks, Cam

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Very hard to say. If it was dehydration, you’d have felt much better after drinking regularly for a couple of hours after the run. If it was simply the body rejecting the GU, you’ll get to experience it again someday. You really don’t <need fuels during a 1:45 run. Suggestion: try doing your runs of up to two hours on plain water, and if it’s hot take an electrolyte pill halfway through. (It won’t do anything, but it’s a comfort…) See if you don’t feel better. I learned from Carl Ellsworth just how little fuels the body actually needs during long runs. Carl was 63 at the time. He’d won the northern California road race Grand Prix series and was one tough old buzzard. He never used fuels in training runs <or in marathons. ("Well, I’m only out there a little over three hours.") Through years of fine-tuning I had finally discovered the fuels that worked best for me. Yet, when I stopped using <any fuels during runs of up to 24 miles, I felt much better. Go figure. Every body is different, so I’m not saying it’s for everyone–just worth considering. — George Beinhorn "How to Run Your First 50-Miler" http://www.oceansofenergy.com

Response:

yeah, what with smog pollution levels being higher, i’m sure we’re sucking in some pretty bad stuff while running. still, i think the benefits outweigh NOT running. even a little run is better than none at all. last night i did a very easy-paced 10K with the running club i’ve started going out with. i intended to go longer, but the heat was rather oppressive. a small core group of us stuck it out for the full 10k, while the rest bailed around 7k. at the end, i felt good, but also felt that was all i wanted to do. Cam

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yeah…same with me today. I only ran a mile and 1/2 (cause I ran 4 last night) and I could barely finish that! It was about 88 degrees out and very o-zone-y. Ick. Cathy! whateva4eva ** "I heard the best way to regenerate body heat is to crawl naked into a sleeping bag with someone whos already naked." "Maybe if it rains sleeping bags you’ll get lucky." Remove egetme!

Response:

Yeah…same with me today. I only ran a mile and 1/2 (cause I ran 4 last night) and I could barely finish that! It was about 88 degrees out and very o-zone-y. Ick. Cathy! whateva4eva ** "I heard the best way to regenerate body heat is to crawl naked into a sleeping bag with someone whos already naked." "Maybe if it rains sleeping bags you’ll get lucky." Remove egetme!

Response:

 to train on water for long distance. then  if  gu well do good for you in a pre race run. to try and find what works with. the long run. Gu might get you from the 1 hour to two hour area. thou the wall is a round the bend.:) I hit the wall so any times.  one day I walk thru it. and then again      LSD  ( long slow distance )thru it . Sort of like the  2  and 3 mile   runs  way    back   then.   this works  for me . I  am  not  fast  thou  my distance is not  bad.:)  Back when  I  could go  for  5  or 6  hours  running  a friend here  had a big H  atack at Mt wash, or rainer, somewhere.  over 17 hours running  or something.  No more running for him(his recovery is allmost magical)  I Said to self. O Keey  dok  ey   big  guy.   So  I can’t.   and  back  off this was back in winter time..    see we all have are horse to X.?.so he said… I want to do  a ultra in september. now just hangging. 10 miles a week   well start trainin  for 50 mile run.in september.   good luck to your long run  cam.            Lowtuc Godspeed,

Response:

Very hard to say. If it was dehydration, you’d have felt much better after drinking regularly for a couple of hours after the run. If it was simply the body rejecting the GU, you’ll get to experience it again someday. You really don’t <need fuels during a 1:45 run. Suggestion: try doing your runs of up to two hours on plain water, and if it’s hot take an electrolyte pill halfway through. (It won’t do anything, but it’s a comfort…) See if you don’t feel better. I learned from Carl Ellsworth just how little fuels the body actually needs during long runs. Carl was 63 at the time. He’d won the northern California road race Grand Prix series and was one tough old buzzard. He never used fuels in training runs <or in marathons. ("Well, I’m only out there a little over three hours.") Through years of fine-tuning I had finally discovered the fuels that worked best for me. Yet, when I stopped using <any fuels during runs of up to 24 miles, I felt much better. Go figure. Every body is different, so I’m not saying it’s for everyone–just worth considering. — George Beinhorn "How to Run Your First 50-Miler" http://www.oceansofenergy.com

Response:

It probably was the heat.  As for the knees, you may have started running with really bad form when you were tired and hot.  It happens to me sometimes when I’m real tired.  My left knee will start to ach, so I’ll walk a little and then concentrate on my posture when I start back up.  When I’m tired, I start to hunch forward and pound down harder.

Response:

Live and learn. Emphasis on the "live" part. Cam

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It probably was the heat.  As for the knees, you may have started running with really bad form when you were tired and hot.  It happens to me sometimes when I’m real tired.  My left knee will start to ach, so I’ll walk a little and then concentrate on my posture when I start back up.  When I’m tired, I start to hunch forward and pound down harder.

Response:

It was the heat, Cam. I had an 8km tempo in the same weather a week ago that just about killed me. It was horrible, and I felt sick, too. I felt like a total beginner. Everything felt crappy, and I couldn’t get enough air in me, etc. As far as the knees, I don’t know. Maybe you were pounding the ground a little harder due to your fatigue and sick feeling in general……?

I think that must have been it. The knees have never been a problem. Just general achiness after LSDs, but not like last night. I’ll bet my form sucked bigtime near the end. I just wanted to get HOME. thank god for recovery drinks and bars, Cam

Response:

It was the heat, Cam. I had an 8km tempo in the same weather a week ago that just about killed me. It was horrible, and I felt sick, too. I felt like a total beginner. Everything felt crappy, and I couldn’t get enough air in me, etc. As far as the knees, I don’t know. Maybe you were pounding the ground a little harder due to your fatigue and sick feeling in general……? — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "You can’t burn out if you’ve never caught fire." http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/racing.html – – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night I went out for my long run of the week. I thought I was in good shape for it. I had (reasonably) hydrated the day before, and continued drinking fluids the day-of, as well. I stuck to the usual day-of foods, too, so nothing to worry about – right? Wrong. The plan was to do 1:45, an "easy" week for me (down from last week’s 2:00 LSD). Anyway, things were going fine until about the last third (or quarter… it felt so bad that my mind wasn’t working well) of the run. I had been sipping water regularly (at least I thought so), and was doing my regular shots of GU (about every 20-25 min.). Maybe I should mention that it was a sunny and humid 33 degrees Celcius – that’s around 90 F. Anyway, the body was crashing. It started with my knees aching incredibly. Then that aching seemed to spread to the rest of my legs…. I couldn’t pinpoint a center of pain after that. Then my stomach started acting up. I took more water, but it wasn’t helping. My last GU was vanilla – warm – and tasted terrible…. and it burned to swallow it. I ended up spitting the crap out. I could barely swallow it anyway. I *almost* thought I was going to spew a couple of times, but didn’t. This has NEVER happened before. It wasn’t like I had never run this distance before; in fact, I’ve exceeded it many times. So…. was this dehydration? Or what? It felt terrible, and the worst of it was that I had to *walk* a good portion of that last leg to my car  :-)   I can normally handle the leg ache that accompanies the last bit of a LSD, and still finish decently. Help, help, help….. I don’t want to repeat this episode. On the upside, I recovered pretty well. I drank every last bit of water I had with me, did some good stretches, downed my nice cool Gatorade stash from my car during the drive home, ate a carb/protein dinner, cold showered the legs, massaged the legs and then iced them while watching tv. A couple of ibuprofen to ensure the aches wouldn’t wake me during sleep. I feel as good as any other "day after" today. Many thanks for advice from any others who’ve been through this – and I suspect there are many  :-) Cam

Response:

Last night I went out for my long run of the week. I thought I was in good shape for it. I had (reasonably) hydrated the day before, and continued drinking fluids the day-of, as well. I stuck to the usual day-of foods, too, so nothing to worry about – right? Wrong. The plan was to do 1:45, an "easy" week for me (down from last week’s 2:00 LSD). Anyway, things were going fine until about the last third (or quarter… it felt so bad that my mind wasn’t working well) of the run. I had been sipping water regularly (at least I thought so), and was doing my regular shots of GU (about every 20-25 min.). Maybe I should mention that it was a sunny and humid 33 degrees Celcius – that’s around 90 F. Anyway, the body was crashing. It started with my knees aching incredibly. Then that aching seemed to spread to the rest of my legs…. I couldn’t pinpoint a center of pain after that. Then my stomach started acting up. I took more water, but it wasn’t helping. My last GU was vanilla – warm – and tasted terrible…. and it burned to swallow it. I ended up spitting the crap out. I could barely swallow it anyway. I *almost* thought I was going to spew a couple of times, but didn’t. This has NEVER happened before. It wasn’t like I had never run this distance before; in fact, I’ve exceeded it many times. So…. was this dehydration? Or what? It felt terrible, and the worst of it was that I had to *walk* a good portion of that last leg to my car  :-)   I can normally handle the leg ache that accompanies the last bit of a LSD, and still finish decently. Help, help, help….. I don’t want to repeat this episode. On the upside, I recovered pretty well. I drank every last bit of water I had with me, did some good stretches, downed my nice cool Gatorade stash from my car during the drive home, ate a carb/protein dinner, cold showered the legs, massaged the legs and then iced them while watching tv. A couple of ibuprofen to ensure the aches wouldn’t wake me during sleep. I feel as good as any other "day after" today. Many thanks for advice from any others who’ve been through this – and I suspect there are many  :-) Cam

Response: