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Question:

Anyone have any info on how my new hero, Khalid Khannouchi, trains? I heard that he runs 140 miles a week is that true? – Carra, Khannouchi fan! — http://fullspeed.to/mypicture – be warned!     my bad essay "Who am I?" and NEW/UPDATED running/studying diary! http://www.studynow.com – Medical Bookstore, cool!     save $50 by entering this coupon # 2376342 Limited time! Before you buy.

Response:

: Anyone have any info on how my new hero, Khalid Khannouchi, trains? : I heard that he runs 140 miles a week is that true? : – Carra, Khannouchi fan! I am sure it is. Check out www.khannouchi.com for more info. There are also quite a few interviews with him from the past at coolrunning.com, runnersworld.com etc. I am sure now that he’s the only long-distance WR holder currently living and training in the US there’ll be more to follow. Also  - don’t forget to support his quest for US citizenship, I think the guy deserves it… or maybe America deserves him… —  Oleg

Response:

I heard that he runs 140 miles a week is that true?

re: khannouchi His training plan of the past was relatively mild and involved alot of running through dirt paths in a park in Ossining with a training partner, who is also an elite athlete. Various articles have stated that he doesn’t train at a real fast pace; in fact quite casual on his daily long runs. As for his speedwork; various people close to him have claimed that he keeps that kind of a secret and his wife doesn’t like it when lookie-loos show up at the track and start watching him… but regardless, I dont think he is doing anything special. I’d rather rely on the training plans which are published in well established books, rather than rely on the training plans of some top athletes; many of whom have whacky or less than efficient training methods.    Just because they are top-notch athletes doesnt’t necessarily mean that they are training at maximum efficiency.

Response:

Carra, I think that Khalid is everybody’s hero for now.  At least until there is a new WR. I’m also sure that a lot of people would like to know his training methods and even by a book that has his name anywhere on it. For a change of subject, I’m working on another website myself. Later…         Roger

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone have any info on how my new hero, Khalid Khannouchi, trains? I heard that he runs 140 miles a week is that true? – Carra, Khannouchi fan! — http://fullspeed.to/mypicture – be warned!     my bad essay "Who am I?" and NEW/UPDATED running/studying diary! http://www.studynow.com – Medical Bookstore, cool!     save $50 by entering this coupon # 2376342 Limited time! Before you buy.

Response:

Probably true for a high mileage period.  He probably also runs some miles of his long run at race pace or faster.  I bet he does intervals and tempo runs as well.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone have any info on how my new hero, Khalid Khannouchi, trains? I heard that he runs 140 miles a week is that true? – Carra, Khannouchi fan! — http://fullspeed.to/mypicture – be warned!     my bad essay "Who am I?" and NEW/UPDATED running/studying diary! http://www.studynow.com – Medical Bookstore, cool!     save $50 by entering this coupon # 2376342 Limited time! Before you buy.

Response:

It depends on how you define living in the US.  A lot of other runners (not sure of WR titles) spend a lot of time in places like Boulder (or Nederland), Alamosa, CO or Albuquerque (did I spell that correctly?).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Anyone have any info on how my new hero, Khalid Khannouchi, trains? : I heard that he runs 140 miles a week is that true? : – Carra, Khannouchi fan! I am sure it is. Check out www.khannouchi.com for more info. There are also quite a few interviews with him from the past at coolrunning.com, runnersworld.com etc. I am sure now that he’s the only long-distance WR holder currently living and training in the US there’ll be more to follow. Also  - don’t forget to support his quest for US citizenship, I think the guy deserves it… or maybe America deserves him… —  Oleg

Response:

<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – re: khannouchi His training plan of the past was relatively mild and involved alot of running through dirt paths in a park in Ossining with a training partner, who is also an elite athlete. Various articles have stated that he doesn’t train at a real fast pace; in fact quite casual on his daily long runs. As for his speedwork; various people close to him have claimed that he keeps that kind of a secret and his wife doesn’t like it when lookie-loos show up at the track and start watching him… but regardless, I dont think he is doing anything special. I’d rather rely on the training plans which are published in well established books, rather than rely on the training plans of some top athletes; many of whom have whacky or less than efficient training methods.    Just because they are top-notch athletes doesnt’t necessarily mean that they are training at maximum efficiency.

I don’t mean any disrespect but please think about what you just said. [sic]"rather than rely on training plans of some top athletes;many of whom have wacky or less than efficient training methods."  If they are being inefficient, why are they elite runners?  They are elite runners because they don’t do what the rest of the public does, thats why they are the best of the best.  Now if you mean that they train in strange, unusual methods…then you are correct.  No matter what training methods an elite athlete uses, you always need to consider them….how else did they get to be sooo much better than everyone else? Before you buy.

Response:

I agree, there are realy no secrets. Everything is pretty much known and published. The same things apply to everyone: speedwork, tempo runs, long runs, easy days, hard days, hills, etc. etc. Khalid knows about training as much as many people here – the only difference is – he chooses to apply this knowledge to train hard and smart and the same time. Remember – he trained under Aouita and Said was burning him off – that was part of the reason he came here. The very fact that he ’s much better off with Sandra as a coach means there are really no secrets to his training./ From what I heard – his mileage is somewhat low for a typical marathoner – about 120 miles on a good week. Long run is about 21 miles. I disagree with him being "slow" on a training runs – in the interviews he stresses "quality" over "quantity" factor. His long runs mimick his race strategy and he is known to finish the last few miles of his long run in 4:40-4:50 range. "SLow" in Michael Johnson world, but in fact it’s faster than his marathon pace. Who else here, besides Indy, finishes long runs at marathon pace or faster?

: I heard that he runs 140 miles a week is that true? : re: khannouchi : His training plan of the past was relatively mild : and involved alot of running through dirt paths : in a park in Ossining with a training partner, : who is also an elite athlete. Various articles have : stated that he doesn’t train at a real fast pace; : in fact quite casual on his daily long runs. : As for his speedwork; various people close to : him have claimed that he keeps that kind of : a secret and his wife doesn’t like it when : lookie-loos show up at the track and start : watching him… but regardless, I dont think : he is doing anything special. : I’d rather rely on the training plans which are : published in well established books, rather than : rely on the training plans of some top athletes; : many of whom have whacky or less than efficient : training methods.    Just because they are top-notch : athletes doesnt’t necessarily mean that they are : training at maximum efficiency. —  Oleg

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I can’t say for sure, but among the top marathon runners their seems to be a trend away from more total miles to less miles with more emphasis on tempo running and speedwork. The key workouts being 20 – 35K runs at marathon race pace, which for the top men is a scary fast 4:40 – 4:50 min/mile(Don’t try this at home kids!!)The tempo running allows the runner to run more effciently at a given speed/pace and the leg speed allows them to turn the legs over when they need to. When Kahlid decided to start reeling in Moses Tanui, you could almost see him lift and begin to sprint after the Kenyan. This after running 24 miles at 4:45 min/mile. Moses did not let go or fade, Kahlid just sprinted away from him in the last two miles. Steve Fleck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone have any info on how my new hero, Khalid Khannouchi, trains? I heard that he runs 140 miles a week is that true? – Carra, Khannouchi fan! — http://fullspeed.to/mypicture – be warned!     my bad essay "Who am I?" and NEW/UPDATED running/studying diary! http://www.studynow.com – Medical Bookstore, cool!     save $50 by entering this coupon # 2376342 Limited time! Before you buy.

Response:

I typically finish my long runs at close to 4:00 mile pace, but that’s just for the very end!  I usually run under 6:00 for the last mile or so. It depends on the day. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who else here, besides Indy, finishes long runs at marathon pace or faster?

Response:

Who else here, besides Indy, finishes long runs at marathon pace or faster?

Pre-surgery, that was my standard practice. Since my long runs now top out at 14 miles, and my doc tells me to stop thinking about "marathon pace" I had to give it up. Seriously, the two things that I felt changed my training most posiively were: a) changing long run strategy to run the first 2/3 to 3/4 at "recovery" pace (a minute or so slower than marathon pace, depending on conditioning), then finishing the long run at marathon pace or better. b) concentrating more intensely on interval and tempo sessions. (mainly making hard HARD, and easy EASY). A friend of mine lives near the park where Khalid trains, and Khalid occationally drops by running club functions there. There are a couple other elite runners that also training in the area. Khalid is apparently quite personable with the group, and my friend has had a chance to speak with him a few times. Yes, Khalid’s "middle" sessions are at quite a relaxed pace, *for him*. Keep in mind that for him a recovery run is still at 5:30-5:45 pace. A pace he can run and still keep up a conversation with anyone that do the same without panting excessively. Before you buy.

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But none of them hold WR titles – most are road runners, and "B-circuit" runners. ElGuerrouj, Ngeny, Kipketer, Komen, Gebrselassie, Hissou and others close to WR "wreath" don’t train in the US.

: It depends on how you define living in the US.  A lot of other runners (not : sure of WR titles) spend a lot of time in places like Boulder (or : Nederland), Alamosa, CO or Albuquerque (did I spell that correctly?).

:

: : Anyone have any info on how my new hero, Khalid Khannouchi, trains? : : : I heard that he runs 140 miles a week is that true? : : : – Carra, Khannouchi fan! : : I am sure it is. : Check out www.khannouchi.com for more info. : There are also quite a few interviews with him from the past : at coolrunning.com, runnersworld.com etc. : I am sure now that he’s the only long-distance WR holder currently : living and training in the US there’ll be more to follow. : Also  - don’t forget to support his quest for US citizenship, : I think the guy deserves it… or maybe America deserves him… : — :  Oleg : —  Oleg

Response:

: <snip : : I’d rather rely on the training plans which are : published in well established books, rather than : rely on the training plans of some top athletes; : many of whom have whacky or less than efficient : training methods.    Just because they are top-notch : athletes doesnt’t necessarily mean that they are : training at maximum efficiency. : : I don’t mean any disrespect but please think about what you just said. : [sic]"rather than rely on training plans of some top athletes;many of : whom have wacky or less than efficient training methods."  If they are : being inefficient, why are they elite runners?  They are elite runners : because they don’t do what the rest of the public does, thats why they : are the best of the best.  Now if you mean that they train in strange, : unusual methods…then you are correct.  No matter what training : methods an elite athlete uses, you always need to consider them….how : else did they get to be sooo much better than everyone else? I totally agree with Steve – if Khannouchi doesn’t train efficiently, then who does? Average Joe Six Pack? The only way we can know who does is by looking at the results. The one who runs faster is the one who trains more efficiently. —  Oleg

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree, there are realy no secrets. Everything is pretty much known and published. The same things apply to everyone: speedwork, tempo runs, long runs, easy days, hard days, hills, etc. etc. Khalid knows about training as much as many people here – the only difference is – he chooses to apply this knowledge to train hard and smart and the same time. Remember – he trained under Aouita and Said was burning him off – that was part of the reason he came here. The very fact that he ’s much better off with Sandra as a coach means there are really no secrets to his training./ From what I heard – his mileage is somewhat low for a typical marathoner – about 120 miles on a good week. Long run is about 21 miles. I disagree with him being "slow" on a training runs – in the interviews he stresses "quality" over "quantity" factor. His long runs mimick his race strategy and he is known to finish the last few miles of his long run in 4:40-4:50 range. "SLow" in Michael Johnson world, but in fact it’s faster than his marathon pace. Who else here, besides Indy, finishes long runs at marathon pace or faster?

29km slow 4:40min/km; 4,5km (hills) with 3:36min/km; 2km slow; stretching. Marathonpace: 3:43min/km (2:36h). —         thomas

Response:

[...] a) changing long run strategy to run the first 2/3 to 3/4 at "recovery" pace (a minute or so slower than marathon pace, depending on conditioning), then finishing the long run at marathon pace or better.

[...] This is probably one of the most important tips for experienced marathon runners.  Unfortunately, nobody told me about it and I kinda had to figure it out on my own. A long run at marathon pace or faster is just a silly idea and in fact it totally defeats the purpose of long runs, which is to get used to running for the duration it takes to complete a marathon.  Also running the entire long run at 1-2 minutes slower than marathon pace may be sufficient for people who just want to finish the marathon, but if you have some pace in mind, it leaves your ability to maintain your pace near the end of the marathon unanswered. By speeding up to marathon pace or better for the last 1/3 or 1/4 of the long run, you train your body to maintain (or even surpass) the pace after fatigue sets in.  In fact, if you can’t speed up to your marathon pace, then your goal is probably too high. -Mark  NYCM ‘98 2:59:59

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: -Mark :  NYCM ‘98 2:59:59 Bulls eye! —  Oleg

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I don’t mean any disrespect but please think about what you just said. [sic]"rather than rely on training plans of some top athletes;many of whom have wacky or less than efficient training methods."  If they are being inefficient, why are they elite runners?

uhhh…. Genetics? I don’t want to start an endless discussion about genetics and athletic ability; but the reason alot of the world’s best runners are the way they are is not because of some miraculous training plan… Its’s because some of them are blessed with some specific physiological attribute which is above the norms of the average person.. There are alot of theories, and everyones got their own ideas…    Some people believe that if you have so-called "bad genetics" then you’ll never be good… I personally don’t buy into that and it’s just my personal opinion that we all have the ability to become "top notch" athletes provided we put enough training into it….   The reality is however, that some small percentage of people just have to work a hell of alot LESS than the average person to get to the top..  Some people can do sub-5 or 6 minute miles without ever having trained at all… On the otherhand, some people may take 1, 2, 3 years, or heck, they may never do a 5 minute mile in a persons lifetime, despite very hard efforts. I’m not saying that all top runners and cyclists are blessed with the ultimate genetics; many top athletes were pretty sucky at one point, but put years and years of hard work into it to get to the peak of fitness… On the otherhand; quite a few of the best athletes already were great to begin with and it didnt take that much training to get to the top.

Response:

I totally agree with Steve – if Khannouchi doesn’t train efficiently, then who does? Average Joe Six Pack? The only way we can know who does is by looking at the results. The one who runs faster is the one who trains more efficiently.

That theory might hold water if we took everything we know about science and genetics, and totally disregarded those facts.  In order to to make a determination about who is training "more efficiently" you would have to have a dead-even control group of people who were 100 percent "even" in terms of physiology; wheras they everyone has the same potential.   But since some people are blessed with different attributes which make them superior (i.e. some people have more Type II FG fibers and may be better at sprinting or weightlifting, etc..  while others may naturally have a larger heart which has a higher cardiac output, some people may have a higher cellular protein level, or mitochondrial denisty, or perhaps a higher percentage of Type I SO fibers, etc.. etc.. etc.. which could lead to better endurance performance). If having a faster running time means that you are training "more efficiently"; that of course does nothing to explain the small percentage of high school students who can run sub-5:30 miles even though they’ve never trained a day in their life.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That theory might hold water if we took everything we know about science and genetics, and totally disregarded those facts.  In order to to make a determination about who is training "more efficiently" you would have to have a dead-even control group of people who were 100 percent "even" in terms of physiology; wheras they everyone has the same potential. But since some people are blessed with different attributes which make them superior (i.e. some people have more Type II FG fibers and may be better at sprinting or weightlifting, etc..  while others may naturally have a larger heart which has a higher cardiac output, some people may have a higher cellular protein level, or mitochondrial denisty, or perhaps a higher percentage of Type I SO fibers, etc.. etc.. etc.. which could lead to better endurance performance). If having a faster running time means that you are training "more efficiently"; that of course does nothing to explain the small percentage of high school students who can run sub-5:30 miles even though they’ve never trained a day in their life.

Interesting point.  Where can I find info regarding the high school kids? Before you buy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – uhhh…. Genetics? I don’t want to start an endless discussion about genetics and athletic ability; but the reason alot of the world’s best runners are the way they are is not because of some miraculous training plan… Its’s because some of them are blessed with some specific physiological attribute which is above the norms of the average person.. There are alot of theories, and everyones got their own ideas…    Some people believe that if you have so-called "bad genetics" then you’ll never be good… I personally don’t buy into that and it’s just my personal opinion that we all have the ability to become "top notch" athletes provided we put enough training into it…. The reality is however, that some small percentage of people just have to work a hell of alot LESS than the average person to get to the top..  Some people can do sub-5 or 6 minute miles without ever having trained at all… On the otherhand, some people may take 1, 2, 3 years, or heck, they may never do a 5 minute mile in a persons lifetime, despite very hard efforts. I’m not saying that all top runners and cyclists are blessed with the ultimate genetics; many top athletes were pretty sucky at one point, but put years and years of hard work into it to get to the peak of fitness… On the otherhand; quite a few of the best athletes already were great to begin with and it didnt take that much training to get to the top.

So are you saying that all elite runners are genetically superior or just a majority of them?  Do you know of which of the above catagories that he fits into (already good to begin with or was sucky at one point)? Before you buy.

Response:

I am one of those people who could easily run 5 minute mile without no training at all. On the other hand I was always active, so maybe the base from playing soccer and tennis and doing other sports helped a lot. Maybe kids who can’t break 6 minute mile just don’t have genes. Or maybe they just never excercised before… Who knows. Khalid was known to train only for a year before he won some XC championships in Morocco. What they don’t often say is that he was a pretty successfull soccer player before that. I am sure he had all the base he needed to run 4:30 minute mile right there. In any case, it’s one thing to run sub-5 mile with no training at all, it’s another to run sub-4 with all the training in the world. But the real argument is this – we can talk about 5 minute miles and all, but it takes a combination of being genetically gifted AND training incredibly hard to run 3 sub-2:08 marathons and set new WR. I am sure there are plenty of guys just as gifted as Khannouchi walking around on the face of the earth. Some can be pretty good runners *if they train*, most probably won’t be able to run 38-minute 10k or 2:50 marathon. The fact that someone can break 5 minute mile with no training is genetics. The fact that someone can break 2:06 for a marathon with 15 years of training is most likely 10% genes and 90% training. If it was all about genes, this record would go down long time ago. Just like David Morris said in his pre-Chicago interview: "I guess I feel I don’t have much talent, so I have to train real hard to get a good result" If this guy can set new AR feeling he doesn’t have much talent, maybe it’s not all about genes after all.

: I totally agree with Steve – if Khannouchi doesn’t train efficiently, : then who does? Average Joe Six Pack? : The only way we can know who does is by looking at the results. : The one who runs faster is the one who trains more efficiently. : That theory might hold water if we took everything : we know about science and genetics, and totally : disregarded those facts.  In order to to make a determination : about who is training "more efficiently" you would have : to have a dead-even control group of people who were : 100 percent "even" in terms of physiology; wheras they : everyone has the same potential.   : But since some people are blessed with different attributes : which make them superior (i.e. some people have more : Type II FG fibers and may be better at sprinting or weightlifting, : etc..  while others may naturally have a larger heart which : has a higher cardiac output, some people may have a higher : cellular protein level, or mitochondrial denisty, or perhaps a : higher percentage of Type I SO fibers, etc.. etc.. etc.. : which could lead to better endurance performance). : If having a faster running time means that you : are training "more efficiently"; that of course does : nothing to explain the small percentage of high : school students who can run sub-5:30 miles even : though they’ve never trained a day in their life. —  Oleg

Response:

I’m just being a smart—, but Arturo Barrios, holds the 20,000 meter world record. 56:55.6  He’s probably not training too much. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am sure now that he’s the only long-distance WR holder currently living and training in the US there’ll be more to follow. Also – don’t forget to support his quest for US citizenship, I think the guy deserves it… or maybe America deserves him… —