Beginner with sore knees

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Question:

Bill, If I may but in, you seem to have summed up the problem already – To much (possibly too fast) to soon. I have been running for eigh years now and sometimes pick up similar problems when I start gearing up for the Comrades 90km marathon. The solution is mainly to back down quite drastically (especially speed) until the problem relents and then start the build-up from that level. One must obviously try and learn how fast one’s body can handle increase in mileage. What you may also do is to rest on alternate days, giving your knees time to recover from the training. GIL, Alberton, South Africa ___ * UniQWK v4.1 * The Windows Mail Reader

Response:

I can identify with your sore knees. I often push myself too hard during the beginning of the season. my lungs and my mind usually pushes me beyond what my joints can take. Here a few suggestions that may help you run without knee pain: 1) Slow down. Most of your runs should be easy and relaxing. You should be able to carry a conversation during these runs. These days I use a heart monitor to force myself to run at an appropriate pace. Remember that you are not racing!! 2) Increase your weekly distance by no more than 10% 3) Ice your knees after the run 4) Strech your quads, hams, and Illiotibial band Best wishes, and run smart!! — chGo Beyond!

Response:

hey great advise….but i’d feel cheated if i didn’t feel just a little sore …after about a month of running/walking and jogging it seems as if im finally starting to get somewhere…did a mile in 6 mins this am….but i find now when i try and slow down and pace myself my shins just start screaming… just how should one slow down???…or should i….and ive finally got a handle on that side stitch thing…but now occationally i end up with a sore lower back….ive started to try running with a weight lifting belt for some support , not sure if that’s helping yet….but hey still loving it!

Response:

Hey Bill, Like you, I just started a running program – though nowhere near the mileage you were doing. And, about the same day as you, I began having trouble with both my knees. Out of nowhere! So I consulted with an experienced runner I know and he asked me about my shoes etc…. During the course of our conversation, I realized that at the time my symptoms appeared I had placed some of those inserts ("cookies") into my Nike Pegasus’. Naturally, I removed them immediately and got instant, though not total, relief. I’m on my 3rd day of recovery with rest and Advil every four hours. And also like you, I am going nuts not being out there pursuing my new hobby! (By the way, those inserts are for people who pronate. As one who suppinates, let me warn you NOT to use them. You’ll regret it as I’m doing.) –

Response:

Runner’s Knees Need To Be Kneaded Since It’s Not The Knee First, I would go to a person who does sports massage, and have him/her work on your quads. Remember that Runner’s Knee according to Tim Noakes has less to do with the knee joint and more to do with soft tissue (muscle). It’s a term that refers to all the muscles and tendons around the knee. Now if the pain is in the actual joint, you are looking at a different problem. If in the joint, it could be anything from a previous contact sports injury to other non running related problems besides the possibility of damage from impact by improper form, or for others doing too much, too soon, too fast. Remember, when a muscle is over stretched or over used it will contract to protect itself. I think that may be more the problem that you are facing rather than having your knees damaged. The other variable is your walking and running style. I would hazard a guess that it would be your walking and running style which have effected your knees more than anything else…. Walk across the room or walk around the block. Notice the snap of the knee as you walk. You will notice it in almost all people as they walk from here to there and do so unconsciously. Remember, running and walking are learning how to fall and catch yourself gracefully. When you run you only lift up your knees, not your entire body. Practice that by lifting your knees up and down in place. It’s the same as marching in place. Stand up straight, and put your thumb at the base of your sternum and the pinkey on your navel. Continue to stand up straight, and let the sternum to the top of your head (which remains looking ahead) bend forward a quarter of an inch. Now walk across the room or around the block. You should notice that you cannot strike on the back of the heel because your upper body is going in the same direction as your feet. The strides will feel like smaller steps because it is the first time in years that you are not stopping yourself with every step. Play with the above ideas, let me know if they work. Do get someone to do some sports massage on your legs, especially the quads. Follow the motto: DO NO HARM. It’s your body. Think how you can go for the grace. Practice walking and running over and lightly upon the surace of the earth. Good runners have very little vertical impact as they run – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help! I have just started running about a month ago (although I have played basketball at least weekly for several years and I am in reasonably good shape). I am running about 20 miles a week, via 4 runs of 5 miles each. Everything has been quite easy and I did not feel that I have pushed myself beyond my abilities because I never got extremely tired or sore. However, the last couple of weeks both my knees are getting very sore. Each run it seems to get worse so I have had to stop. I don’t want to give this up! Any ideas? I am 39 years old, my route has been on pavement, using Reebok running shoes I picked up at the local sports store without much thought. Am I taking on too much too fast? Could it be the shoes? Running on pavement? I’ve never ever had any knee pain or problems before. Thanks for your response. Bill Bosen

– In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer-rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975

Response:

Help! I have just started running about a month ago (although I have played basketball at least weekly for several years and I am in reasonably good shape). I am running about 20 miles a week, via 4 runs of 5 miles each. Everything has been quite easy and I did not feel that I have pushed myself beyond my abilities because I never got extremely tired or sore. However, the last couple of weeks both my knees are getting very sore. Each run it seems to get worse so I have had to stop. I don’t want to give this up! Any ideas? I am 39 years old, my route has been on pavement, using Reebok running shoes I picked up at the local sports store without much thought. Am I taking on too much too fast? Could it be the shoes? Running on pavement? I’ve never ever had any knee pain or problems before. Thanks for your response. Bill Bosen

Bill: To eliminate your knee problems, I think the following program of stretching will help you with perseverence: Regards, Kerry I had a similar problem as yours until I looked back in my running log for the past 2 years and realizing that I should fix the problem of overuse particularly after marathons, most recently after one in May. I have solved the problem with preventative maintenance (i.e. stretching) and have completed marathons in September and October without any further complications or hint of a problem. (Incidentally, I qualified for Boston in 3:09). The solution is described in a re-post of an article that I have posted on numerous occaisions for others: I’ve had knee problems which became most obvious after long periods of overuse. I keep a training log which tracks my injuries which I realized indicated knee problems right after a marathon (weakened by many months of training without adequate strengthening for the knee). SOLUTION: After I was diagnosed as having tendonitus in my left knee as a result of overuse, my sports medicine doctor prescribed the following to control and eliminate the problem: minutes per application) 2. Treat also for 3 or 4 days by taking ibuprofen or other anti-inflammatory. 3. Stretch from now on, before and after every run to strengthen and support the knees, as recommended by my doctor, as follows: a. with caution not to overstretch, from a standing position, elevate your left or right foot straight in front and place on a bench or chair. Slowly bend forward, while grasping your ankle or toes, keeping the leg straight, hold for 20 to 30 seconds. Repeat with other leg. (although not recommended as a general exercise by Galloway, cautious use of this stretching is invaluable for knee support strengthening). b. while sitting on the floor, starting with both feet extended out in front of you, move one foot over the other while you bending same leg. Place your hands on your bent knee and pull the knee towards your body. Hold for 30 seconds, then repeat from the starting position for the other leg. c. from the upgright standing postion, hold onto the wall with one hand while pulling the leg up behind you with your other hand. Press your hip forward to straighten the quad (of the leg you’re pulling up behind) in line with your upper body. Hold for 30 seconds. Repeat for other leg. d. while sitting on a chair or bench, extend one leg straight out and elevate slowly up from the floor and down. Repeat 5 times and continue with other leg. (This can be done anytime also during the day). 4. Apply ice as required after future strenuous runs. I also recommend buying a good stretching book (e.g. Stretching by Bob Anderson) and apply for general running fitness before and after every run. By the way, for runners, knee problems are most common followed by achilles (another subject). Good luck with your knee(s) and running. -regards, Kerry

Response:

Hi Bill, I’ve got a couple comments, helpful I hope. First, 5 miles at a shot is a lot if you’re just starting out. Running is a lot different from a sport like basketball because there is no break in the action — your knees (or whatever else is weak) are getting pounded constantly. I feel a big difference between running and playing racquetball — two hours of racquetball makes for a lot of running, but it never bothers my joints because there’s always some rest in the middle. Also, the pavement is very hard on your joints if they’re not used to it. My daughter runs cross-country, and during the season runs mostly on soft surfaces — school grounds, trails, even in a pool. After the season is over, and she’s running more on the road, it takes her several weeks to get over the soreness caused by the harder surface. You might try finding a trail (or even a golf course, etc.) to run on for one or two runs/week until your knees get toughened up. Happy running,

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help! I have just started running about a month ago (although I have played basketball at least weekly for several years and I am in reasonably good shape). I am running about 20 miles a week, via 4 runs of 5 miles each. Everything has been quite easy and I did not feel that I have pushed myself beyond my abilities because I never got extremely tired or sore. However, the last couple of weeks both my knees are getting very sore. Each run it seems to get worse so I have had to stop. I don’t want to give this up! Any ideas? I am 39 years old, my route has been on pavement, using Reebok running shoes I picked up at the local sports store without much thought. Am I taking on too much too fast? Could it be the shoes? Running on pavement? I’ve never ever had any knee pain or problems before. Thanks for your response. Bill Bosen

Here’s some advice from a new runner who’s been running almost 2 months (wow, I’ve actually been running longer than someone!). Anyway, first of all, you’ve got to realize that you’re not 20 years old, and your body needs more time to rest and get used to its muscles being used in different ways. You may be fit cardiovascularly, but your legs need to get stronger. If you’re running 4 times a week, that means you’re not taking one day of rest between each running day, which I’d strongly recommend. If you alternate running and rest days, you can run three days one week and four days the next. For example: Week 1 Monday-Wednesday-Friday-Sunday running days Week 2 Tuesday-Thursday-Saturday running days Also, cut back on your running time for awhile. Until your running fitness improves, don’t do ANYTHING that will work the same muscles. I recently tried alternating running days with stair climbing days. My first stair climbing day, I walked up and down five flights of stairs five times. I was trying to strengthen my quads, which don’t get worked enough with my flat runs. Unfortunately, my calves, knees, and hamstrings were pulled into the picture, and next day they were SCREAMING. I had to wait two more days before I could run again. If you respect your body’s current limitations it will respond by becoming stronger, and its limitations will decrease. I am reading an excellent book by Joe Henderson, called, if I remember, BETTER RUNS. He says that a runner can expect 10 years of improvement from the time he begins running. That means strength, endurance, and speed. This goes for master runners, too, which you will be when you turn 40. Now take care of those knees! Cynthia Adams (44-year-old beginning runner) Wright State University

Response:

William Bosen asks: Help! I have just started running about a month ago (although I have played basketball at least weekly for several years and I am in reasonably

^^^^^^^ good shape). I am running about 20 miles a week, via 4 runs of 5 miles each. Everything has been quite easy and I did not feel that I have pushed myself beyond my abilities because I never got extremely tired or sore.

^^^^ How about a little sore?? Right out of the gate and 5 miles a pop……. hummm However, the last couple of weeks both my knees are getting very sore. Each run it seems to get worse so I have had to stop. I don’t want to give this up! Any ideas? I am 39 years old, my route has been on pavement, using Reebok running shoes I picked up at the local sports store without much thought. Am I taking on too much too fast?

I think your knees are giving you a hint. You may have good a cardiovascular system but basketball and running are not quite the same. And you swapped a weekly basketball game for four days of 5 miles. Could it be the shoes?

Possibly – what’s the model. Running on pavement?

Another likely candidate, particularly if concrete or crowned. I’ve never ever had any knee pain or problems before.

Bill, In spite of your cardio system, yes, too much too soon. I’d settle the knee problem down by hanging the shoes up for a bit. While they are hanging, find out what they are and if they are good running shoes. After your knees settle down try 2 miles every other day for a few weeks and then increase by the 10% rule(thats 10% per week not per run). If your knees start to bark again, back down. And stretch after your run. For what it’s worth, — Doug Freese All opinions are mine. IBM Tele: 8-293-8098

Response:

up! Any ideas? I am 39 years old, my route has been on pavement, using Reebok running shoes I picked up at the local sports store without much thought. Am I taking on too much too fast? Could it be the shoes? Running on pavement? I’ve never ever had any knee pain or problems before.

Hello Mr. Bosen, Here is some non-professional advice distilled from suffering for years from a combination of bad knees and a love of running. If you have the bucks or insurance, you will probably be payed many times over by visiting a good sports/orthopedics doc and/or physical therapist. If nothing else, a sports doctor can get a "baseline" reading on your knees and spot problems early on by using a range of simple to highly sophisticated diagnostic procedures. And you might be referred to a physical therapist who can help you to properly strengthen the muscles around the knee joint. My brother and I both have inherited miserable knees–the only reason we are both able to run is due to help from sports docs and physical therapists. Oh, and don’t fear the knife–I have had orthroscopic surgery on both knees to remove excess tissue given to me by my parents (really they are nice people–just a little too giving in this case!). I was up and moving around pretty well in about a week–back to runnning in about 6 weeks. As for shoes, I believe that I have helped myself by opting for heavier, more padded shoes such as some of the ASCIS models, although I have stuck with the New Balance 577/580/585 series as I need a "B" width. You may need a shoe that controls for overpronation (my NB’s do a great job of this) or supination. A sports doc (I think) can figure this out by analyzing you gait (or maybe just looking at the wear on your shoes). I also avoid problems by using aftermarket insoles such as Sorbothane or Spenco; I try to run on grass if possible. In effect–anything to avoid jarring impact. Just an ignorant guess-but maybe the recent onset of your problem arises from stressing the knees a bit with your games of basketball, then you have loaded on the extra running– and not given your legs any real down time. Perhaps you will simply need to cut back on the running for a while, impliment suggestions from the sports doc/physical therapist, and gradually increase your mileage. Oh yeah, I am not a sports doc or physical therapist, nor do I have any financial interests in the medical field–OK some of my relatives do own some pharmaceutical stocks–but they would probably only profit if you need drugs to treat your knees (which I hope you won’t!). Good luck–and be nice to those knees, G. Davis

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