Becoming less awkward with the fat

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Question:

In reference to various types of big people, Thomas Lee Horton writes: [Some] accept themselves and are happy, and have no desire to change–these seem to be the rarest type. They (in general) do not read a.s.d., for they do not diet.

I have a question about this–about the name of "alt.support.diet" and what it implies. I’m in the category of self-accepting large-size people who have healthy bodies: I walk 4-5 miles a day, lift weights, and eat a low-fat diet, and yet have little desire to shed the more than 100 pounds I supposedly "need" (who says?) to lose. When I scanned the list of newsgroups looking for a place to discuss attitudes toward fatness, sources for clothes, how to be more self-accepting (I can always use help), and so on, the only thing that I found was called "alt.support.diet." This put me off a little bit, and yet I can see from the postings that not everything that happens here is about food and losing weight. (I like a gourmet low-fat meal as well as the next person, but I’m not into cooking, and I *definitely* don’t intend to diet ever again. Dieting is what made me fat!) So…is there another newsgroup or mailing list more suited to my interests? Are there others like me who would be more comfortable in a newsgroup called "alt.bigpeople," rather than one whose name implies a desire to change one’s body via dieting? –Fiona Webster

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In reference to various types of big people, Thomas Lee Horton writes: [Some] accept themselves and are happy, and have no desire to change–these seem to be the rarest type. They (in general) do not read a.s.d., for they do not diet. I have a question about this–about the name of "alt.support.diet" and what it implies. I’m in the category of self-accepting large-size people who have healthy bodies: I walk 4-5 miles a day, lift weights, and eat a low-fat diet, and yet have little desire to shed the more than 100 pounds I supposedly "need" (who says?) to lose. When I scanned the list of newsgroups looking for a place to discuss attitudes toward fatness, sources for clothes, how to be more self-accepting (I can always use help), and so on, the only thing that I found was called "alt.support.diet." This put me off a little bit, and yet I can see from the postings that not everything that happens here is about food and losing weight. (I like a gourmet low-fat meal as well as the next person, but I’m not into cooking, and I *definitely* don’t intend to diet ever again. Dieting is what made me fat!) So…is there another newsgroup or mailing list more suited to my interests? Are there others like me who would be more comfortable in a newsgroup called "alt.bigpeople," rather than one whose name implies a desire to change one’s body via dieting? –Fiona Webster

"Diet" is not a dirty word. A lot of people think that "fat" is, but it isn’t either. I think the name is okay, and I think you’re welcome in it. I don’t think anyone will force you to change who are. Tom

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I started alt.support.diet for people who *are* dieting, either to lose weight, or generally who are working on changing their diet for health/nutrition reasons. You are right..all these other threads really do not belong here. I agree with this completely. I have worked very hard for much of my life to battle my weight problem, and I don’t really need people coming around telling me I should get or stay fat. I realize some people either don’t want to diet or can’t, and it would be appropriate for them to have a support group as Fiona suggests, but I don’t think it is appropriate to have a lot of "fat is beautiful" discussion when we are trying to get thin and stay thin.

I feel compelled to throw in my two cents (oh, hell, I may as well spend a nickel): So many of us are bombarded with negatives. On the TV, in magazines and at the movies, we see images of people who are thin and beautiful. They are human beings, just like us, yet we feel vastly inferior to them. Why? Because we are fat. This is why so many of us are trying to lose weight– to become thin and beautiful. Put away your flamethrowers, please, I’m not saying this is the right motivation, but let’s face it, it’s why a great number of us do it. a.s.d. exists thanks to Anne Mitchell and a lot of other people who wanted a forum for helping people to lose weight. Now, many people seem disturbed that there is a current of positivism amond the fat. Isn’t this feeling somewhat anti-supportive? My feeling is that fat people must be allowed to be proud of who they are, and express their identity without shame, or fear, or ridicule. To me, the thread of "FAT IS BEAUTIFUL" is a little dangerous– after all, it’s clinically proven that obesity is unhealthy– but it’s not nearly so dangerous as the thread of "FAT IS UGLY" that we get everywhere we go. I am desperate to lose weight an I am one of the Truly Fat (6′1", 382 lbs). But I am down from 395. I am trying to lose for health reasons. If I allowed myself to get caught up in the "fat is ugly" hype, I would grow out of my house from depression. Yesterday, I was walking into a shopping mall with my wife and I saw my reflection in a plate-glass door and said, "I look good today." Is that so wrong? I want to look nice at the size I am, rather than wait two years or more until I have shrunk to my desired size. I want to enjoy tasty food while on my diet. I want to know about exercise techniques and the latest theories on weight loss. I want to let others know they’re not alone, and that they’re not ugly. I want to find support– not berating, ridicule, preaching or empty promises ("give us a week, we’ll take off the weight"… yeah, right). I find all I want on a.s.d. I would never advise anyone to remain obese, but I do say that a person’s mental self-image is as important as his/her body. I have found a few truisms that I often include in my .sig file. I find that they help. Here is a rundown: "LOVE YOURSELF OR NOBODY ELSE CAN." – Madonna, from "Something to Remember" This means that you can’t hate your body because it’s fat, or everyone else will treat you the same way… as a big fat embarassment. "FAT: BE HAPPY WITH IT OR YOU’LL NEVER BE HAPPY WITHOUT IT." –Me This means that you must accept yourself as you are. If you don’t you won’t be any happier thin than fat. "MAKE LIKE NIKE AND JUST DO IT." — My brother Joe This means that there’s no time like the present, and if you want change, you must initiate it yourself. Most of us do want to change. I believe that a.s.d. is a vital tool for those of us who want to better our lives. However, I think it is detrimental to the readers of this group to engage in dialogues that allow us to wallow in self-pity (i.e. this dreadful "alt.fat.wizards" thread currently running) and contribute to a global poor image of the fat. We should never proclaim that fat is the "way to go", but we must admit that it is the "way we are" and we *MUST* accept it, and move on. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< GUNG HO, DIETERS! MAKE IT GO AWAY! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Tom Horton, U.Va. French Department– <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Response:

I started alt.support.diet for people who *are* dieting, either to lose weight, or generally who are working on changing their diet for health/nutrition reasons. You are right..all these other threads really do not belong here.

I agree with this completely. I have worked very hard for much of my life to battle my weight problem, and I don’t really need people coming around telling me I should get or stay fat. I realize some people either don’t want to diet or can’t, and it would be appropriate for them to have a support group as Fiona suggests, but I don’t think it is appropriate to have a lot of "fat is beautiful" discussion when we are trying to get thin and stay thin. — Gordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – * *I have a question about this–about the name of "alt.support.diet" *and what it implies. I’m in the category of self-accepting large-size *people who have healthy bodies: I walk 4-5 miles a day, lift weights, *and eat a low-fat diet, and yet have little desire to shed the more *than 100 pounds I supposedly "need" (who says?) to lose. When I *scanned the list of newsgroups looking for a place to discuss attitudes *toward fatness, sources for clothes, how to be more self-accepting *(I can always use help), and so on, the only thing that I found was *called "alt.support.diet." This put me off a little bit, and yet I started alt.support.diet for people who *are* dieting, either to lose weight, or generally who are working on changing their diet for health/nutrition reasons. You are right..all these other threads really do not belong here. Folks…it is very easy to start an alt. group if you want one for this other material.

Lighten up! One of my complaints about usenet is that there are so many groups that revolve around the same ideas that it is impossible to read all of them to get the entire picture. It is like the two groups called alt.humor and alt.humor.funny to differentiate the funny humor from the not-so-funny. The people in this group have many things in common, and to separate the issues into other groups would be a sad thing to do. Besides, it is not a problem since this group only gets about 20 new messages a day. If we had 100-200 messages heading on a tangent it would be different. I like the format of this group as it is… I like to go to one place and find people talking about fat experiences, fat foods, and fat reduction. It ends up being a pot-pourri of challenges that all fat people must deal with. I agree that the name does not exactly fit the topics. But that does not mean that we move the discussion elsewhere… it means that the name could use a change. Since we all found our way to this place of sanctity, I recommend that it all stays the same. What we have here is a good thing. My other complaint is to those who flame others for not reading the FAQ or for starting a thread that does not belong… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — LOOKING FOR: Michael Hobson, Alex Craven, David Runyon, & Lorna Taylor founder of the Fathers Rights and Equality Exchange. The fathers’ rights paper & FREE files available via ftp: gw.home.vix.com;/pub

Response:

* *I have a question about this–about the name of "alt.support.diet" *and what it implies. I’m in the category of self-accepting large-size *people who have healthy bodies: I walk 4-5 miles a day, lift weights, *and eat a low-fat diet, and yet have little desire to shed the more *than 100 pounds I supposedly "need" (who says?) to lose. When I *scanned the list of newsgroups looking for a place to discuss attitudes *toward fatness, sources for clothes, how to be more self-accepting *(I can always use help), and so on, the only thing that I found was *called "alt.support.diet." This put me off a little bit, and yet I started alt.support.diet for people who *are* dieting, either to lose weight, or generally who are working on changing their diet for health/nutrition reasons. You are right..all these other threads really do not belong here. Folks…it is very easy to start an alt. group if you want one for this other material. — LOOKING FOR: Michael Hobson, Alex Craven, David Runyon, & Lorna Taylor founder of the Fathers Rights and Equality Exchange. The fathers’ rights paper & FREE files available via ftp: gw.home.vix.com;/pub

Response:

I agree with this completely. I have worked very hard for much of my life to battle my weight problem, and I don’t really need people coming around telling me I should get or stay fat.

No one is telling anyone they should get or stay fat. We are talking about self-acceptance. If one doesn’t have a certain degree of self-acceptance, all the dieting in the world isn’t going to make a whit of difference, because the weight won’t stay off. Getting thin doesn’t make you happy, it only makes you thin. People who spend their lives thinking, "if only I were thin, all my problems would be solved. People would like me better, the man of my dreams would instantly appear, I could wear those great looking clothes, etc. etc. etc" often are very surprised when they get to a goal weight and discover that they still aren’t very happy. This is a hard one to get for lots of people who have had long term weight problems. Please note that I am not saying that high self-esteem and changing dietary habits are in opposition to each other. In fact, if the dietary changes are going to have any lasting effect, they have to come out of a certain sense of self-esteem. Moira

Response:

Which is not to say that self-loathing is the source of most dietary failures. I think it’s more likely to be based in physiology and drive (to eat). Getting thin doesn’t make you happy, it only makes you thin. People who spend their lives thinking, "if only I were thin, all my problems would be solved. People would like me better, the man of my dreams would instantly appear, I could wear those great looking clothes, etc. etc. etc" often are very surprised when they get to a goal weight and discover that they still aren’t very happy. This is a hard one to get for lots of people who have had long term weight problems.

Absolutely. Carpe diem! Please note that I am not saying that high self-esteem and changing dietary habits are in opposition to each other. In fact, if the dietary changes are going to have any lasting effect, they have to come out of a certain sense of self-esteem.

Response:

Telling yourself that you are ugly is a hateful thing to do to yourself. If you want to change your weight, you must first accept what you are, and learn to like yourself. Chastizing yourself on a continuous basis for being overweight is very depressing and will cause you to become desperate to lose weight. You then do foolish things and become vulnerable to the gimicks of the weight loss industry. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Gordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and

Response:

But you can have a reasonable amount of self-esteem and still fail. I think it’s often a matter of delayed versus immediate gratification. People who are better at handling delayed gratification might do better at keeping weight off. This is another example of the bigotry toward fat people. When they’re not prevented from it by prejudice, fat people go to school, get advanced degrees, learn foreign languages, save money and all sorts of other things that require delayed gratification. I’m not saying that you personally are saying that fat people are totally out of control, but that is the stereotype.

I’m sorry if what I said could be construed to reinforce this. That wasn’t my intention. I was just making a conjecture based on my own experience, and it doesn’t involve being "totally out of control" at all. So much in gaining undesired weight isn’t a matter of gluttony, but of taking small extra amounts habit- ually, and being stuck with a metabolism which doesn’t compensate for this. It’s not drinking beer per se, but of regularly having two at a meal instead of one. An ice cream isn’t deadly, but a regular daily habit (well, even *I* never indulge that much) might go a long way towards regaining weight, and so on. I find it hard to naturally and effortlessly tie an individual action (in the area of food and eating) to the accumulated effects of such individual actions. That is, I have to consciously remind myself to say no; an effort of the will. I hope that such exercise can make my will stronger. — Steve Dyer

Response:

This is another example of the bigotry toward fat people. When they’re not prevented from it by prejudice, fat people go to school, get advanced degrees, learn foreign languages, save money and all sorts of other things that require delayed gratification. I’m not saying that you personally are saying that fat people are totally out of control, but that is the stereotype. — The George Washington University (202) 994-6853

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