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Question:

<snip> > OK, let me be the first to chime in on the other heated debate topic.  I > personally think that hitting as discipline is wrong.  "Discipline" comes from > "disciple" which means "to teach".  I don’t think hitting teaches a kid > anything except that a.) their caregiver has just totally lost control, and b.) > their caregiver is bigger and stronger and can and will inflict physical pain > if behavior is not up to their standards, and c.) if you don’t get caught, you > don’t get hit.

Not that I didn’t spank my two daughters a few times (and I mean a very few times) when they were growing up, but I just can’t imagine myself doing that now.  I’m not the person now, that I was then.  I don’t like seeing it and I sure won’t be doing it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I think suspending privileges teaches discipline better since that’s the way > the world works.  If you drive recklessly you pay a fine or lose your driving > privileges, if you don’t do your work you lose your job, if you do things to > anger your friends you may lose their friendship, etc., etc.  On the other > hand, in any of those situations if you started hitting people then it’s called > assault and battery.  Why should that particular standard be any different for > kids?  Better to take away privileges, favorite toys, or ground them for a > while. It’s not only closer to the way the world works but it also provides > some time to think about why they have to earn back the privilege or toy they > are currently without. > Again, it’s a heated debate topic and not everyone agrees.

I agree.  I’m the queen of grounding.  I have two teenagers who’ll back me up on that one! I can come up with some good ones too.  For instance, when my oldest slammed a door, because she was angry that she didn’t get her way, I made her open and close the door softly, fifty times in a row.  By the time she was done, she was smiling.  It didn’t hurt her and she learned a lesson.  She hasn’t slammed a door since.  :-) Suzanne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> -Kerri

Response:

> >He knows he a hard person; he’s admitted it to my girls. > That’s definitely something he’s doing right, that he can admit that not only > to you but also to the girls directly.

He’s a good guy.  He *is* trying. And I’m not perfect either! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >He wants to do what’s right.  If it means stepping aside and letting me > >handle 100% of the discipline, then that’s what he wants to do.  But – I do > >worry about how it’ll make him feel.  I don’t want to emasculate him.  I > >want him to be their stepfather, along with all the responsibilities that > >come along with it.  I just don’t want any of it at my daughters expense. > OK, I’m just going to second Sheila’s opinion on the above issue.  If you want > 100% of the discipline decisions then you can not expect him to shoulder any > other parental responsibilities at all.  That’s trying to have it both ways, > and is setting him up to end up resenting you and your children.  An > arrangement like that will eat away at your relationship until it eventually > kills the relationship entirely.

I agree.  Her comments had a big impact on me. Suzanne

Response:

> >Not that I didn’t spank my two daughters a few times (and I mean a very few > >times) when they were growing up, but I just can’t imagine myself doing that > >now.  I’m not the person now, that I was then.  I don’t like seeing it and I > >sure won’t be doing it. > I’m just back from a small trip, so I got a bit behind on this thread. I’ll > just weigh in briefly on this topic.

Welcome back! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I don’t believe in physical corrections, for kids of any age, under any > circumstances.  I have never hit my kids.  So, when I read that your DH > corrected the kids more harshly, I took that to mean either by using harsher > words than you would have ("Hey!  I’ve told you a million times not to leave > towels on the floor!  Get with the program here!" vs. "Honey…. I’d really, > really like it if you wouldn’t leave towels on the floor…. okay?")  OR by > wanting to use negative consequences when you wanted to only reward positive > behavior (grounding vs. promising rewards for future good behavior). Physical > punishment was so outside my own frame of reference, I didn’t even think about > it.

Oh, he would never spank my children.  At their age, I don’t think it would even enter his mind.  His own daughter, yes.  She’s six and I think he sees it as him forming her to be a good kid.  She is different around him, than she is her BM.  She pitches huge fits for her, and never for my DH.  I’m sorry though – I don’t think fear is a good thing, for any reason, or for any outcome. He uses words with my two, and it’s not so much that they sound harsh, but there also just rude.  For instance, I have a problem with "none of  your business".  I just hate it!  I think there are more polite ways to get that point across, but he uses it with my kids. We just got back from a trip and he was talking (in front of my daughter) about how much it had cost us, for just a camping trip.  My daughter (14 yo) asked how much it had cost.  My daughter couldn’t care less about finances. She was just trying to pipe in on the conversation.  She hadn’t gone on the trip and had no clue.  He instantly to her it was none of her business.  She was humiliated and ran out of our room, to her own.  I just looked at him and asked him why he felt it was necessary to be so harsh?  Why not say, "more than we expected", or "enough to not want to discuss it".  I told him if he didn’t want anyone knowing about our finances, then he should have been talking to me in private.  IMO, if you talk about things in public (like in here), you’d better be prepared for others who are listening to try to enter the conversation. It may seem like a small thing to anyone reading my post, but it made the wedge even wider between the two of them.  I explained my stance on that sentence and while he may use it directed at others, I don’t think he’ll do it again to my daughters.  He did go in, without any prodding from me at all, and apologize to her, almost immediately.  But – the other day, he was discussing something with me, and my DD made a comment and he shut her down again.  I can’t remember the exact comment and to be honest, he kinda let it trail off when he looked back at me, but it was on the lines of, "This is a conversation that doesn’t involve you, butt out." Sometimes I find myself tensing up when he’s in the room with my daughters, because I’m afraid they’ll say something, to cause him to be rude to them. I hate that. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> *Anyone* hitting my kids — husband, grandparent, babysitter, or myself — > would be unacceptable to me, so this would be a no-brainer for me.   I don’t > know how to really say this…. I’ve not gotten enough sleep the last few days, > and I ingested caffeine only about 5 minutes ago.  Basically, I’d suggest to > you that you might want to think through your position on corporal punishment > altogether.  Why would it be okay for you to hit them, and not for him? If > they were younger (five or six) would you spank them?  How would you feel if he > did it?  What if he were the biological father?  Maybe asking yourself these > question will lead you to clarify exactly what is going on in your head with > regard to this issue.

There really isn’t any issue involving corporal punishment, other than what he does to his own daughter.  He’s told me to spank her if she misbehaves, and I’ve told him under NO circumstances will I be doing so.  He’s like, "Well, okay, don’t come crying to me when she acts up then."  No problem!  I managed to raise two very well-behaved daughters on my own, without resorting to it.  I can think of a few times only, when I ever laid hands on my daughters and it’s not that I had to keep myself from spanking at other times, it’s just that it doesn’t enter my mind.  And yes, he’s been told that too. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sheila

Response:

Suzanne wrote: >Oh, I’ll take that one step further!  I think pre-marital counseling should >be mandatory!  We’re actually batting around the idea of going anyway.  We >figure it can’t hurt and who knows, we might learn a thing or two.

I think a little intervention with a third person who is a neutral party may be a good idea.  It sounds like both of you are at a place (in your heads) where you are open to feedback and looking at things from a different perspective. That would may things OH SO MUCH EASIER than most people who walk into therapists offices!  ;-) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> >The problem is, that when he disciplines, his words come out sounding >> >harsher than he intends. >> Generally, I’ve found this to be a male trait (more than female).  My DH >does a >> bit of that too.  Then again, as he’s pointed out to me, I think I may >just >> **notice** it more coming from him.  He’s pointed out a time or two when >I’ve >> said stuff that I would have "pinged" him for (like you, in private — >NEVER in >> front of the kids). >My husband may read these posts and I’m going to be 100% honest.  Let me >give you a little background about how he was raised.  It has EVERYTHING to >do with who he is today.

<snip details of hubby’s background> >I think we tend to parent, the way we were parented.  Or to an extent >anyway.  Some of his main issues, involve money and responsibility.  Not >that those aren’t some important issues, but he expects my children to >follow his values.  You just can’t walk into someone’s life and expect them >to snap to it like that.  It’s a collision waiting to happen.  But again, >he’s a good man – just a little stern in his beliefs.  None of them are >wrong, just very rigid.

<smile>  I, too, came from a poor pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps kind of background.  In addition, mine was also abusive, in several different ways. Some of the things in my history I’ve made it a point not to repeat.  As I mentioned in the other post, I don’t hit my kids.  Period.  OTOH, there are aspects of my background — like developing a strong work ethic and learning responsibility — that I think have served me well over the years. Of course, he shouldn’t *expect* you to change your values, and adopt his just because you married him (just as I don’t expect him to change his just because he married you).  Talking about things, and trying to see things from a different perspective, though, is entirely okay.  ;-) <snip> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->No, there are just times where he won’t compromise.  He’ll drop it, but you >know he thinks what parental decision you made, was wrong.  For instance, my >oldest daughter drives a car that I purchased.  Of course, I have to carry >her insurance and I supply a cell phone for her too.  She works about 30 >hours a week at a local grocery store, bringing home about $400 a month. >She’s very responsible, has never gotten into any type of trouble and is >paying her own way through college, with loans that she went and got on her >own.  She pays us $200 a month, which almost covers her insurance.  She pays >for her own clothes too, for the most part.  Well, since he had to pay for >everything when he was growing up, he thinks she should too.  He wants her >to pay for her car (which was already in her life before he was), her >insurance, plus take in her cell phone. >I think she’s under enough pressure as it is.  I want her to pass college. >When her father and I divorced, there was a major income shift.  I may not >be paying for her college, but I’m contributing $350 a month for other >expenses.  He wants it to stop, no questions asked.  He wants things to >change, that were already in place when he met me.  He’s resigned himself to >that fact that they’re going to stay the way they are, until I see how well >she handles college, but if he had his way, she’d be working three jobs, >attending college and scrubbing the dorm floors during sleep hours.

There is a wide range of what people believe parents *should* do for adult children.  My own belief is that adults are adults.  Parents don’t *owe* them a college education.  Parents don’t *owe* them them the right to support. However, I think it is fine and dandy if the parents *want* to, especially if the kid is doing most of the work toward getting to a goal (I don’t think it is a good idea for parents to do it, even if they want to, for a kid who is just goofing off and playing video game all day.  I think that actually does a disservice to the "kid".)  I also think that gratitude plays a role in this.  I wouldn’t do it for a kid who was working hard, but had the attitude that I owed it to them.   Personally, on the surface,  it sounds like what you are doing is great.  She is paying her way through college.  She is making some financial contribution to household.  You are providing a few nicities.  So, I’m wondering… is the gratitude component missing, and that what he is bristling about?  Is your daughter real clear that you are doing what you are doing because you are proud of what she is doing and want to help her reach her goal, and not because you "should"?  If she isn’t, and you could somehow help her to understand, and express that, it might go a long way toward making your DH feel better about it — it would for me.   Most of us hard-scrapple people don’t resent helping people out… but we do resent it being suggested that they are *entitled* to be helped out, when we don’t think they are!  ;-) <snip, including part about corporal punishment, which I addressed in the other post> >I just feel like a good, solid, loving relationship needs to be in place, >before you can dole out discipline.  Otherwise, I think you lose respect, >before you’ve even had the chance to earn it.

I think that depends on exactly what you are talking about.  I think that kids can (and should) respect the *position* immediately.  Even with older kids, I still expect some of that — just like I would expect them to respect the authority of a teacher at school, as an adult whose position defines them as having control over their behavior.  I think it is a good lesson in real life — I am respectful to my boss, even if I don’t like him as a person, because I respect the position he holds.   However, respect isn’t the only goal in the family, liking one another is a good thing too!  With younger kids, it is generally easier, I think.  Unless they’ve been coached by someone, they are pretty open to liking adults who treat them kindly.  Older kids/teens can be harder.  They are more likely to have proprietary feelings over their parents and their space.  My own SDs didn’t like the *idea* of their father having a girlfriend — even before he had one — and their mother helped that along by referring to me as "The Bitch" before she’d ever seen me, talked to me, or I had had any interaction with any of them.  Needless to say, getting them to like me was an uphill battle, and only recently has been successful (7-8 years later).  But, you see, they didn’t LIVE with us, so I didn’t have the same issues you do, where you have to deal with one another on a day-to-day basis.   Given my own circumstances (where there was incredible animosity toward the whole CONCEPT of "dad’s wife) I wouldn’t have married my DH if he’d become the custodial parent. Not because I couldn’t have disciplined — I would have, because I won’t live in a house with kids that I have no authority over — but because I wouldn’t want to live in a house with conflict all the time.   I guess I see respect, discipline, and getting along as related, but separate issues. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Again, as I said before, I think either way can be successful (my >situation >> certainly is), depending on the participants.  My kids just know that my >DH and >> I are a unit.  There isn’t an expectation that they can say something to >one of >> us, without the other having the capability for input, because we’ve never >led >> them to believe that that expectation has any validity.  I think that is >> incredibly important.  Whichever way you two decide to deal with it, I >think >> you need to be consistent and give very clear messages to the kids.  If >you >> give mixed messages, I think you are majorly setting yourself up for >problems. >I agree.  How long have you been married and what are your children’s ages?

DH and I have been together over 8 years.  My kids are now fourteen and almost fifteen.  That situation has worked out very well, because of their ages when we got together and (I believe) because we have consistently maintained that he and I are the parenting unit, and they need to respond to us as such — and because *we* respond consistently, supporting one another, even if we don’t always agree at the moment (yes, we talk about it later).  But, my kids have never had an inkling that they could play us against one another, and so, even as we reached that critical young teen age, there hasn’t been any of that kind of behavior on their part.   <snip> >> Eh, no problem.  I’ll give you my opinion (as will others) and you can >take >> what you think will work, and leave the rest behind.  In any case, I hope >you >> aren’t offended… I’m just telling you how I see things. >I’m not at all offended.  It takes a lot to offend me!  I know when people >are trying to help, and I’m pretty good at knowing when people are stiring >up trouble.  You’re the former, for sure.  There are a few people in this NG >who know me from another one.  They can tell you how I handled it when I >thought I was getting the latter.  Not one of my better moments, but I’m an >honest, genuine person and I admire the same in other people.  My skin is >pretty thick.  :-)

The topic of this ng is, necessarily, a volatile one.  People feel strongly about the issues involved: marriage, family, children.  It is really easy, I think, to get your feelings hurt when things are so close to your heart. That’s why I think it is a … read more »

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -><snip> >> OK, let me be the first to chime in on the other heated debate topic.  I >> personally think that hitting as discipline is wrong.  "Discipline" comes >from >> "disciple" which means "to teach".  I don’t think hitting teaches a kid >> anything except that a.) their caregiver has just totally lost control, >and b.) >> their caregiver is bigger and stronger and can and will inflict physical >pain >> if behavior is not up to their standards, and c.) if you don’t get caught, >you >> don’t get hit. >Not that I didn’t spank my two daughters a few times (and I mean a very few >times) when they were growing up, but I just can’t imagine myself doing that >now.  I’m not the person now, that I was then.  I don’t like seeing it and I >sure won’t be doing it.

I’m just back from a small trip, so I got a bit behind on this thread.  I’ll just weigh in briefly on this topic. I don’t believe in physical corrections, for kids of any age, under any circumstances.  I have never hit my kids.  So, when I read that your DH corrected the kids more harshly, I took that to mean either by using harsher words than you would have ("Hey!  I’ve told you a million times not to leave towels on the floor!  Get with the program here!" vs. "Honey…. I’d really, really like it if you wouldn’t leave towels on the floor…. okay?")  OR by wanting to use negative consequences when you wanted to only reward positive behavior (grounding vs. promising rewards for future good behavior).  Physical punishment was so outside my own frame of reference, I didn’t even think about it.   *Anyone* hitting my kids — husband, grandparent, babysitter, or myself — would be unacceptable to me, so this would be a no-brainer for me.   I don’t know how to really say this…. I’ve not gotten enough sleep the last few days, and I ingested caffeine only about 5 minutes ago.  Basically, I’d suggest to you that you might want to think through your position on corporal punishment altogether.  Why would it be okay for you to hit them, and not for him?  If they were younger (five or six) would you spank them?  How would you feel if he did it?  What if he were the biological father?  Maybe asking yourself these question will lead you to clarify exactly what is going on in your head with regard to this issue. Sheila

Response:

" Suzanne" <jsnob…@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message

news:CX4Vc.8868$5i7.6509@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > >He knows he a hard person; he’s admitted it to my girls. > > That’s definitely something he’s doing right, that he can admit that not > only > > to you but also to the girls directly. > He’s a good guy.  He *is* trying. And I’m not perfect either! > > >He wants to do what’s right.  If it means stepping aside and letting me > > >handle 100% of the discipline, then that’s what he wants to do.  But – I > do > > >worry about how it’ll make him feel.  I don’t want to emasculate him. I > > >want him to be their stepfather, along with all the responsibilities that > > >come along with it.  I just don’t want any of it at my daughters expense. > > OK, I’m just going to second Sheila’s opinion on the above issue.  If you > want > > 100% of the discipline decisions then you can not expect him to shoulder > any > > other parental responsibilities at all.  That’s trying to have it both > ways, > > and is setting him up to end up resenting you and your children.  An > > arrangement like that will eat away at your relationship until it > eventually > > kills the relationship entirely. > I agree.  Her comments had a big impact on me.

What it boils down to is limits. If you cannot abide your DH using harsh disciplinary methods on your kids make a point of putting a stop to it. Set boundaries that enforce your limits. Marriage is a tricky business. If you or your spouse make sacrifices for each other more often than not it ends in resentment. My motto is "never agree to anything unless you 100% agree with it". You can read all about this concept at www.marriagebuilders.com They call it the concept of "enthusiastic agreement". Many folk live by the motto of compromise in marriage. They believe that they should give in to their spouse. That’s fine with some things but not the biggies like discipline. Amy

Response:

<snip> > My motto is "never agree to anything unless you 100% agree with it". You can > read all about this concept at www.marriagebuilders.com They call it the > concept of "enthusiastic agreement". > Many folk live by the motto of compromise in marriage. They believe that > they should give in to their spouse. That’s fine with some things but not > the biggies like discipline.

I was in that website Sunday and I printed out the relationship questionnaire.  We were so compatible until we listed our priorities in order.  Communication was two out of ten in importance for me, and it was eight out of ten for him.  I don’t think that’s a problem exclusive to us though.  I think that’s a man-woman thing, but I do think it has something to do with our issue. What a coincidence that you mentioned marriagebuilders.com, because a running joke between us all week, has been love bank deposits.  Something will happen, and he’ll go, "Cha-ching!" Suzanne

Response:

"Amy Lou" <amylou…@bigpond.com> wrote in message

news:XCaVc.1658$F7.987@news-server.bigpond.net.au… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What it boils down to is limits. If you cannot abide your DH using harsh > disciplinary methods on your kids make a point of putting a stop to it. Set > boundaries that enforce your limits. > Marriage is a tricky business. If you or your spouse make sacrifices for > each other more often than not it ends in resentment. > My motto is "never agree to anything unless you 100% agree with it". You can > read all about this concept at www.marriagebuilders.com They call it the > concept of "enthusiastic agreement". > Many folk live by the motto of compromise in marriage. They believe that > they should give in to their spouse. That’s fine with some things but not > the biggies like discipline.

Um, yeah.  And somewhere in your responses to Suzanne’s posts, Amy, have you mentioned the COLOSSAL marital problems you and your husband have had over your attitude?  Not trying to be snide, really, but you’re giving advice about a situation you don’t handle very well yourself. rebecca

Response:

"rebecca" <justrebec…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:zNcVc.7371$3O3.5680@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net… > Um, yeah.  And somewhere in your responses to Suzanne’s posts, Amy, have you > mentioned the COLOSSAL marital problems you and your husband have had over > your attitude?  Not trying to be snide, really, but you’re giving advice > about a situation you don’t handle very well yourself.

Who better to talk about a problem, then someone who had to learn the hard way? Wendy

Response:

" Suzanne" <jsnob…@sbcglobal.net> wrote > What a coincidence that you mentioned marriagebuilders.com, because a > running joke between us all week, has been love bank deposits.  Something > will happen, and he’ll go, "Cha-ching!"

Amy

Response:

"rebecca" <justrebec…@yahoo.com> > Um, yeah.  And somewhere in your responses to Suzanne’s posts, Amy, have you > mentioned the COLOSSAL marital problems you and your husband have had over > your attitude?  Not trying to be snide, really, but you’re giving advice > about a situation you don’t handle very well yourself.

G’day Rebecca. Its been a long while since my situation was discussed (at great length I might add) on the ng. Its all really vague in my mind now – there was so much talked about and so many different people offering opinions that I really cannot recall what each individual’s thoughts were. It would help if you would describe in more detail how you see me so that I know what we are talking about.  My attitude for example – can you elaborate on how you see it? And exactly what situation don’t I handle very well? I it probably sounds really dumb to ask but it will help immensely if we are talking about the same thing. Amy

Response:

"Amy Lou" <amylou…@bigpond.com> wrote in message

news:xlkVc.377$D7.145@news-server.bigpond.net.au… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "rebecca" <justrebec…@yahoo.com> > > Um, yeah.  And somewhere in your responses to Suzanne’s posts, Amy, have > you > > mentioned the COLOSSAL marital problems you and your husband have had over > > your attitude?  Not trying to be snide, really, but you’re giving advice > > about a situation you don’t handle very well yourself. > G’day Rebecca. Its been a long while since my situation was discussed (at > great length I might add) on the ng. Its all really vague in my mind now – > there was so much talked about and so many different people offering > opinions that I really cannot recall what each individual’s thoughts were. > It would help if you would describe in more detail how you see me so that I > know what we are talking about.  My attitude for example – can you elaborate > on how you see it? And exactly what situation don’t I handle very well? I it > probably sounds really dumb to ask but it will help immensely if we are > talking about the same thing.

Sure, as I recall, you have a teenage son.  In your mind, your DH is not a parent, and is thus entitled to no disciplinary authority.  And again, as I recall, this makes your husband crazy.  Over the years, you have posted innumerable times about arguments and marital problems related to this. Your attitude, like in the post you responded to Suzanne, is that you won’t compromise in any way, that your hasband is just going to have to suck it up. So I guess what I’m responding to is that you advised another person never to compromise, without pointing out that the end result of your own refusal to do so has been years and years of terrible conflict. rebecca

Response:

"rebecca" <justrebec…@yahoo.com> > Sure, as I recall, you have a teenage son.

Yep, he’s 17 now, very independent, very capable, going to school, working and all in all very happy. We are very proud of him. In your mind, your DH is not a > parent, and is thus entitled to no disciplinary authority.

I have always considered DH a parent, but I haven’t always agreed with his methods. I  think I have a right to expect that he treats my kid in ways that are acceptable to me. And again, as I > recall, this makes your husband crazy.

It was the push and pull of "yes you can parent my kid and no I don’t think you should do that" that drove him crazy, I think. I also used to agree with his rules (even though I actually did not *agree* with them) and then he would get mad because I couldn’t follow through with them. Very passive aggressive, very crazy making! Over the years, you have posted > innumerable times about arguments and marital problems related to this.

Yes. And it took me a long time before I finally learned how to deal with it. > Your attitude, like in the post you responded to Suzanne, is that you won’t > compromise in any way, that your hasband is just going to have to suck it > up.

That’s how my attitude is *now* but it wasn’t always like that and that was why we were having problems. Things didn’t improve for us until I was able to set those important boundaries so he knew what he could do and what he couldn’t do as far as treating my son. Now he respects me and my needs and treats my son in ways that are acceptable to me. Its actually made him (DH) a happier person (not to mention a better parent) because he knows where the limits are. You ever seen a kid who’s not given any limits? They are much happier when they have limits. I guess the same thing applies for adults. > So I guess what I’m responding to is that you advised another person never > to compromise, without pointing out that the end result of your own refusal > to do so has been years and years of terrible conflict.

Do you see why I didn’t point that out now? It was my continual *compromising* that caused those years and years of conflict. So what I said to Susanne was if having her DH yell at her kids upsets her it is important (not only for her self respect but for her marriage as well) that she sets boundaries. Has there ever been a relationship gone bad because the bio parent has refused to compromise? Probably. It all depends on the people involved. Its a risk. Susanne might not want to take that risk. I didn’t for a long time and things only got worse. When I finally did take that risk things got better and now I can look back and wish I’d taken it sooner! Any questions? Amy

Response:

"Amy Lou" <amylou…@bigpond.com> wrote in message

news:SNAVc.1415$D7.146@news-server.bigpond.net.au… > It was the push and pull of "yes you can parent my kid and no I don’t think > you should do that" that drove him crazy, I think. I also used to agree with > his rules (even though I actually did not *agree* with them) and then he > would get mad because I couldn’t follow through with them. Very passive > aggressive, very crazy making!

Okay, well, thanks for clarifying. rebecca

Response:

" Suzanne" jsnob…@sbcglobal.net wrote: >His mother had her hands full and he was essentially raised >by his grandmother, who to me seems like the sweetest old lady on the face >of the Earth, but for him, she was a tough, tough woman.  You did what she >said, or else.

Hmmm…but would she ever admit to him that sometimes she could be wrong and too harsh, like he does with your girls?  If she wouldn’t do that then he has made some progress from grandma. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->For instance, my >oldest daughter drives a car that I purchased.  Of course, I have to carry >her insurance and I supply a cell phone for her too.  She works about 30 >hours a week at a local grocery store, bringing home about $400 a month. >She’s very responsible, has never gotten into any type of trouble and is >paying her own way through college, with loans that she went and got on her >own.  She pays us $200 a month, which almost covers her insurance.  She pays >for her own clothes too, for the most part.  Well, since he had to pay for >everything when he was growing up, he thinks she should too.  He wants her >to pay for her car (which was already in her life before he was), her >insurance, plus take in her cell phone. >I think she’s under enough pressure as it is.  I want her to pass college. >When her father and I divorced, there was a major income shift.  I may not >be paying for her college, but I’m contributing $350 a month for other >expenses.  He wants it to stop, no questions asked.

I don’t think what you’re doing is unreasonable.  She’s paying her way through college and you’re just trying to help.  It’s not like she’s not contributing anything, she IS contributing toward her education and toward your home.  Also, as long as none of his money is involved in paying for things he doesn’t agree with then I don’t see any reason for him to object. -Kerri

Response:

" Suzanne" jsnob…@sbcglobal.net >With his daughter, if she misbehaves in >public, I’ll get on her level (literally) and tell her that it’s >unacceptable and that when she gets home, she’ll spend the first hour, or >whatever, sitting in her room thinking about, until she can tell me what she >did wrong, and why.  His way, would be to pop her upside the head.  She >straightens up, alright!  I can’t do that.  I’m sorry – I just can’t.  Not >to say that I didn’t spank my children every once in awhile when they were >younger, but I would never feel comfortable doing that to his daughter. >It’s not the way I parent.  On the other side of the story – he thinks I’m >too lenient.  Sigh.

OK, let me be the first to chime in on the other heated debate topic.  I personally think that hitting as discipline is wrong.  "Discipline" comes from "disciple" which means "to teach".  I don’t think hitting teaches a kid anything except that a.) their caregiver has just totally lost control, and b.) their caregiver is bigger and stronger and can and will inflict physical pain if behavior is not up to their standards, and c.) if you don’t get caught, you don’t get hit.   I think suspending privileges teaches discipline better since that’s the way the world works.  If you drive recklessly you pay a fine or lose your driving privileges, if you don’t do your work you lose your job, if you do things to anger your friends you may lose their friendship, etc., etc.  On the other hand, in any of those situations if you started hitting people then it’s called assault and battery.  Why should that particular standard be any different for kids?  Better to take away privileges, favorite toys, or ground them for a while. It’s not only closer to the way the world works but it also provides some time to think about why they have to earn back the privilege or toy they are currently without. Again, it’s a heated debate topic and not everyone agrees. -Kerri

Response:

Hello everyone!  It’s been awhile since I joined a newsgroup, due to issues in my life that I needed help with. I’m not new to the SP gig, thanks to the rude introduction that my ex and his new wife gave me.  Nasty, nasty things, that culminated with my oldest daughter being kicked out by her SM, due to an email that she read, that was writing by my daughter, about her, to me.  Like in another thread, the SM copied me and I had to deal with that issue as well.  Fast forward two years… Now I’m dealing with SP’ing issues much closer to home.  My own, to be exact.  Let’s just say that my new husband and I don’t see eye to eye on discipline issues.  He was raised hard and expects everyone to emulate his values, morals… and yes, way of disciplining.  My children on the other hand, where raised to be their own person and encouraged to think for themselves and speak freely, but with respect.  A sure-fire recipe for conflict. BUT – My husband is a wonderful man in every way.  I know that sounds impossible, if I’m complaining about him, but it’s not so much *him*, as the issue of us needing to find out how we need to be handling the issue of discipline – as in who does it – and how to handle damage that has already been caused. My views on it, are that before he can step in (and vice-versa, before I can step in with his daughter), a relationship needs to be established first (this is where there is damage from past conflicts), then we can agree on a discipline style and he can discipline my two daughters.  For now, I think he can be referred to in discussions when I am disciplining, so that they’re aware that he’s aware, but I think I need to be the mouth-piece. I’ve gone back through old posts, and remarkably, I didn’t find too much on this issue.  I’ve found a few good articles on websites, but I find it much easier to relate to people one on one, from people who have been there. Other than this one issue and it’s a biggie, our marriage is about as perfect as it can be.  But, since I’ve been divorced once, I give hefty respect to any issue that causes 80% of second marriages to crumble. Suzanne – happily counting down to her one-year anniversary  :-)

Response:

Welcome Suzanne! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->My husband is a wonderful man in every way.  I know that sounds impossible, >if I’m complaining about him, but it’s not so much *him*, as the issue of us >needing to find out how we need to be handling the issue of discipline – as >in who does it – and how to handle damage that has already been caused. >My views on it, are that before he can step in (and vice-versa, before I can >step in with his daughter), a relationship needs to be established first >(this is where there is damage from past conflicts), then we can agree on a >discipline style and he can discipline my two daughters.  For now, I think >he can be referred to in discussions when I am disciplining, so that they’re >aware that he’s aware, but I think I need to be the mouth-piece. >I’ve gone back through old posts, and remarkably, I didn’t find too much on >this issue.  I’ve found a few good articles on websites, but I find it much >easier to relate to people one on one, from people who have been there.

I don’t think there is a general consensus on this.  There seems to be many different ways of approaching this, and different approaches can be successful, depending on the people.  No one size fitting all, here. I think your biggest problem is going to be that you and you DH aren’t starting off on the same page.  I can understand your DH’s point of view.  I couldn’t live in a house where I wasn’t an authority figure for the children in the house (of course, I also wouldn’t marry if I knew that I wouldn’t be that authority figure, so maybe he and I are different in that way!).  The problem, as I see it, is going to be in the one of you who is doing it "the other way" feeling resentful on a day to day basis.  If you "give in" and let him be an authority figure before you think he should, it is likely to grate on you whenever you hear him doing something you think is wrong.  If he gives in, he’s likely to feel angry and resentful when he’s expected to keep his mouth shut.   I don’t know how you can work out this problem successfully.  How important is it to him that he be able to discipline?  If it is VERY important to him, could you get behind that — fully — if that was what the two of you decided? Alternatively, what does he say about the times he’s remained quiet… how is that impacting on your relationship, and his relationship with your kids?  I know myself well enough to know that, if I felt that I was an adult with no authority over the kids, I’d resent the kids, and my spouse.   Sheila

Response:

> >My husband is a wonderful man in every way.  I know that sounds impossible, > >if I’m complaining about him, but it’s not so much *him*, as the issue of us > >needing to find out how we need to be handling the issue of discipline – as > >in who does it – and how to handle damage that has already been caused.

<snip original post > – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I don’t think there is a general consensus on this.  There seems to be many > different ways of approaching this, and different approaches can be successful, > depending on the people.  No one size fitting all, here. > I think your biggest problem is going to be that you and you DH aren’t starting > off on the same page.  I can understand your DH’s point of view.  I couldn’t > live in a house where I wasn’t an authority figure for the children in the > house (of course, I also wouldn’t marry if I knew that I wouldn’t be that > authority figure, so maybe he and I are different in that way!).  The problem, > as I see it, is going to be in the one of you who is doing it "the other way" > feeling resentful on a day to day basis.  If you "give in" and let him be an > authority figure before you think he should, it is likely to grate on you > whenever you hear him doing something you think is wrong.  If he gives in, he’s > likely to feel angry and resentful when he’s expected to keep his mouth

shut. Well, I’ll admit that when we met, child rearing wasn’t discussed as far as discipline goes.  Seems so basic, but it never came up.  I have full custody of my two, one of which moves out for college on Friday.  My other daughter is 14 1/2.  His daughter is only with us every other weekend and she’s only six. The problem is, that when he disciplines, his words come out sounding harsher than he intends.  I never say anything to him in front of the kids, because I don’t want to undermine him.  I do however, bring it up in private.  Never in an accusatory way – just maybe a "Honey, that sounded a little rough".  Nine times out of ten, he’ll tell me that he could have handled it better.  He knows he a hard person; he’s admitted it to my girls. The tenth time, he won’t back down and that’s when we have to get down to the nitty gritty. Now, bear in mind, these are just the times I think he’s wrong.  There are times when he handles it wonderfully and I always tell him so.  I am not always 100% right.  I parent using more of a positive reinforcement method and he does the opposite – he’s more of the type that does it by putting them in their place.  I figure I raised two daughters that turned out very well this way – maybe it’ll work for this problem too.  Luckily my daughters are older, and don’t get in much trouble.  It’s mainly for them being, what he calls "disrespectful to me".  To me, it’s them pushing the boundaries and being a bratty teenager.  Trust me, I’ll have my mouth open to say something to them, and he’ll insert his words, before I get a chance.  I am not a softie and can be hard myself.  Just ask my daughters!  ;-) I’m as much worried about the issue itself, as the problem that you mentioned above.  I want him to be comfortable in our marriage and in his role as the stepfather.  Step-parenting is far more difficult than I ever imagined that it would be!  Having an ex-wife in the picture ain’t too fun either, but that’s for another newsgroup.  Is there an alt.exwife.needs.to.butt.out newsgroup around??  Just teasing… sort of. > I don’t know how you can work out this problem successfully.  How important is > it to him that he be able to discipline?  If it is VERY important to him, could > you get behind that — fully — if that was what the two of you decided? > Alternatively, what does he say about the times he’s remained quiet… how is > that impacting on your relationship, and his relationship with your kids? I > know myself well enough to know that, if I felt that I was an adult with no > authority over the kids, I’d resent the kids, and my spouse.

He wants to do what’s right.  If it means stepping aside and letting me handle 100% of the discipline, then that’s what he wants to do.  But – I do worry about how it’ll make him feel.  I don’t want to emasculate him.  I want him to be their stepfather, along with all the responsibilities that come along with it.  I just don’t want any of it at my daughters expense. It’s worth it to me, to fight for the answers. Thanks for your perspective.  I really appreciate it. Suzanne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sheila

Response:

"Kerri Clair" <kerricl…@aol.comma> wrote in message

news:20040819045533.29244.00001249@mb-m19.aol.com… > " Suzanne" jsnob…@sbcglobal.net wrote: > >His mother had her hands full and he was essentially raised > >by his grandmother, who to me seems like the sweetest old lady on the face > >of the Earth, but for him, she was a tough, tough woman.  You did what she > >said, or else. > Hmmm…but would she ever admit to him that sometimes she could be wrong and > too harsh, like he does with your girls?  If she wouldn’t do that then he has > made some progress from grandma.

Oh, she’s as sweet as sugar now!  She adores my daughters and I could never imagine her disciplining them like she did him.  She’s a good woman, but she handled him with an iron fist, but he still knew she loved him.  He tells me that all the time. As a matter of fact, she has mentioned that she cried after spanking him one time (he was caught playing on railroad tracks… I would have blistered his butt too) and she does admit that she was tough on him.  He sees all of this as a plus in his life, now.  He says it made him the man that he is today. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->snip< > >I think she’s under enough pressure as it is.  I want her to pass college. > >When her father and I divorced, there was a major income shift.  I may not > >be paying for her college, but I’m contributing $350 a month for other > >expenses.  He wants it to stop, no questions asked. > I don’t think what you’re doing is unreasonable.  She’s paying her way through > college and you’re just trying to help.  It’s not like she’s not contributing > anything, she IS contributing toward her education and toward your home. Also, > as long as none of his money is involved in paying for things he doesn’t agree > with then I don’t see any reason for him to object.

Well, our money is combined, so he is in essence contributing to the bills. I think he sees her as free-loading, which of course, is an irritant to me. But the other day, he told me that he was going to take out an insurance policy for his daughter, that he could cash in when she was college-age, so that she could have some help.  Of course, our money is combined, so I’ll be helping pay for that too.  Just a tad hypocritical, but I didn’t say anything.  He’ll catch on sooner, or later. Suzanne

Response:

"Suzanne" jsnob…@sbcglobal.net wrote: >He knows he a hard person; he’s admitted it to my girls.

That’s definitely something he’s doing right, that he can admit that not only to you but also to the girls directly. >He wants to do what’s right.  If it means stepping aside and letting me >handle 100% of the discipline, then that’s what he wants to do.  But – I do >worry about how it’ll make him feel.  I don’t want to emasculate him.  I >want him to be their stepfather, along with all the responsibilities that >come along with it.  I just don’t want any of it at my daughters expense.

OK, I’m just going to second Sheila’s opinion on the above issue.  If you want 100% of the discipline decisions then you can not expect him to shoulder any other parental responsibilities at all.  That’s trying to have it both ways, and is setting him up to end up resenting you and your children.  An arrangement like that will eat away at your relationship until it eventually kills the relationship entirely. -Kerri

Response:

<snip> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Suzanne:  >Well, I’ll admit that when we met, child rearing wasn’t discussed as > far as > >discipline goes.  Seems so basic, but it never came up.  I have full custody > >of my two, one of which moves out for college on Friday.  My other daughter > >is 14 1/2.  His daughter is only with us every other weekend and she’s only > >six. > Yes, setting up a household/parenting plan that both can agree to should be a > requirement before getting the marriage license  ;-).  That isn’t to say that > people still might not change their minds once they are in it — you can’t > always predict how you will feel living with a decision day in and day out — > but at least you would have discussed it.

Oh, I’ll take that one step further!  I think pre-marital counseling should be mandatory!  We’re actually batting around the idea of going anyway.  We figure it can’t hurt and who knows, we might learn a thing or two. > >The problem is, that when he disciplines, his words come out sounding > >harsher than he intends. > Generally, I’ve found this to be a male trait (more than female).  My DH does a > bit of that too.  Then again, as he’s pointed out to me, I think I may just > **notice** it more coming from him.  He’s pointed out a time or two when I’ve > said stuff that I would have "pinged" him for (like you, in private — NEVER in > front of the kids).

My husband may read these posts and I’m going to be 100% honest.  Let me give you a little background about how he was raised.  It has EVERYTHING to do with who he is today.  He was moved around no less than five times, when he was younger.  His mother had her hands full and he was essentially raised by his grandmother, who to me seems like the sweetest old lady on the face of the Earth, but for him, she was a tough, tough woman.  You did what she said, or else.  As a matter of fact, not too long ago, I heard her get wound up and it was like hearing my husband’s voice, coming out of her mouth.  On top of all this, they didn’t have much money.  If he wanted school clothes, he had to purchase them, or he went without. Polar opposite of my upbringing. I think we tend to parent, the way we were parented.  Or to an extent anyway.  Some of his main issues, involve money and responsibility.  Not that those aren’t some important issues, but he expects my children to follow his values.  You just can’t walk into someone’s life and expect them to snap to it like that.  It’s a collision waiting to happen.  But again, he’s a good man – just a little stern in his beliefs.  None of them are wrong, just very rigid. > I never say anything to him in front of the kids, > >because I don’t want to undermine him.  I do however, bring it up in > >private.  Never in an accusatory way – just maybe a "Honey, that sounded a > >little rough".  Nine times out of ten, he’ll tell me that he could have > >handled it better.  He knows he a hard person; he’s admitted it to my girls. > >The tenth time, he won’t back down and that’s when we have to get down to > >the nitty gritty. > I’m not sure what you mean here… that he won’t back down.  What is it, > behaviorally, that you want him to do?

No, there are just times where he won’t compromise.  He’ll drop it, but you know he thinks what parental decision you made, was wrong.  For instance, my oldest daughter drives a car that I purchased.  Of course, I have to carry her insurance and I supply a cell phone for her too.  She works about 30 hours a week at a local grocery store, bringing home about $400 a month. She’s very responsible, has never gotten into any type of trouble and is paying her own way through college, with loans that she went and got on her own.  She pays us $200 a month, which almost covers her insurance.  She pays for her own clothes too, for the most part.  Well, since he had to pay for everything when he was growing up, he thinks she should too.  He wants her to pay for her car (which was already in her life before he was), her insurance, plus take in her cell phone. I think she’s under enough pressure as it is.  I want her to pass college. When her father and I divorced, there was a major income shift.  I may not be paying for her college, but I’m contributing $350 a month for other expenses.  He wants it to stop, no questions asked.  He wants things to change, that were already in place when he met me.  He’s resigned himself to that fact that they’re going to stay the way they are, until I see how well she handles college, but if he had his way, she’d be working three jobs, attending college and scrubbing the dorm floors during sleep hours. I guess I just think it’s unfair to step into someone’s life and expect them to instantly adhere to your beliefs.  Life isn’t that simple. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Now, bear in mind, these are just the times I think he’s wrong.  There are > >times when he handles it wonderfully and I always tell him so.  I am not > >always 100% right.  I parent using more of a positive reinforcement method > >and he does the opposite – he’s more of the type that does it by putting > >them in their place.  I figure I raised two daughters that turned out very > >well this way – maybe it’ll work for this problem too.  Luckily my daughters > >are older, and don’t get in much trouble. > I do both.  I’m very positive with my kids — we spend a lot of time laughing > and talking, and are very affectionate — but I also "put them in their place". >  It doesn’t have to be one way or the other.  AAMOF, I think a good combination > of the two is the best way.  :-)

You sound like a good mother! <snip> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Here you have one of the ubiquitous arguments on this ng — whether or not one > adult should intervene on the behalf of another in stepparenting situations. > It is one of the more polarizing arguments.  Some are very much where you are > — that you should handle your relationship with the kids, with no > interference from your spouse.  Same goes for the spouse. > I’m of a different school of thought.  For me, the marriage needs to be the > center of the family, and the couple bests functions as a unit.  That means I > wouldn’t mind if my husband were to intervene when I was having a conflict with > my kids.  In fact, it would make me feel good that we were supporting one > another.  I would want that in a non-blended family, and I want it in a > stepfamily too.

I would agree with you here, if I thought my husband would handle it without making things worse.  That’s really the center of my issue.  We parent differently.  Too differently.  With his daughter, if she misbehaves in public, I’ll get on her level (literally) and tell her that it’s unacceptable and that when she gets home, she’ll spend the first hour, or whatever, sitting in her room thinking about, until she can tell me what she did wrong, and why.  His way, would be to pop her upside the head.  She straightens up, alright!  I can’t do that.  I’m sorry – I just can’t.  Not to say that I didn’t spank my children every once in awhile when they were younger, but I would never feel comfortable doing that to his daughter. It’s not the way I parent.  On the other side of the story – he thinks I’m too lenient.  Sigh. I just feel like a good, solid, loving relationship needs to be in place, before you can dole out discipline.  Otherwise, I think you lose respect, before you’ve even had the chance to earn it. Ironically, it used to drive me NUTS that my ex would not get involved in any arguments with my daughters.  I was the sole disciplinarian.  Go figure. > Again, as I said before, I think either way can be successful (my situation > certainly is), depending on the participants.  My kids just know that my DH and > I are a unit.  There isn’t an expectation that they can say something to one of > us, without the other having the capability for input, because we’ve never led > them to believe that that expectation has any validity.  I think that is > incredibly important.  Whichever way you two decide to deal with it, I think > you need to be consistent and give very clear messages to the kids.  If you > give mixed messages, I think you are majorly setting yourself up for

problems. I agree.  How long have you been married and what are your children’s ages? <snip> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >He wants to do what’s right.  If it means stepping aside and letting me > >handle 100% of the discipline, then that’s what he wants to do. > Hmmm… then I don’t see the problem.  I mean, if you are both happy with that, > then, as Nike says, just do it! >  But – I do > >worry about how it’ll make him feel.  I don’t want to emasculate him.  I > >want him to be their stepfather, along with all the responsibilities that > >come along with it.  I just don’t want any of it at my daughters expense. > >It’s worth it to me, to fight for the answers. > Sooo…. is he giving you signals that he wouldn’t be happy with that > arrangement, or is that coming from inside your own head?

Coming from my own busy little head. > Personally, I don’t think he should have to have *any* responsibilities, if he > has no disciplinary rights.  I mean…. if you expect him to take a parenting > role with them, but pull out the trump card of "But I’m the real parent, so > I’ve decided that you can’t discipline", I think that is wrong.  (sorry) IMO, > you can’t have it both ways.  If you want to be the sole parent, do that. > There are many people on this newsgroup that do that.  But, you shouldn’t > cherrypick on which role *you* want him to fulfill.

Very interesting.  I actually read this post this morning and thought I’d wait until later, when I had the time, to respond.  This has entered my mind off and on throughout the day.  I 100% agree and it’s something that I’m going to bring up to him later.  I never looked at it from this point of view.  Thanks for the food for thought. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Thanks for your perspective.  I really appreciate it. > Eh, no problem.  I’ll give you my

… read more »

Response:

Me:  >> I don’t think there is a general consensus on this.  There seems to be – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->many >> different ways of approaching this, and different approaches can be >successful, >> depending on the people.  No one size fitting all, here. >> I think your biggest problem is going to be that you and you DH aren’t >starting >> off on the same page.  I can understand your DH’s point of view.  I >couldn’t >> live in a house where I wasn’t an authority figure for the children in the >> house (of course, I also wouldn’t marry if I knew that I wouldn’t be that >> authority figure, so maybe he and I are different in that way!).  The >problem, >> as I see it, is going to be in the one of you who is doing it "the other >way" >> feeling resentful on a day to day basis.  If you "give in" and let him be >an >> authority figure before you think he should, it is likely to grate on you >> whenever you hear him doing something you think is wrong.  If he gives in, >he’s >> likely to feel angry and resentful when he’s expected to keep his mouth >shut.

Suzanne:  >Well, I’ll admit that when we met, child rearing wasn’t discussed as far as >discipline goes.  Seems so basic, but it never came up.  I have full custody >of my two, one of which moves out for college on Friday.  My other daughter >is 14 1/2.  His daughter is only with us every other weekend and she’s only >six.

Yes, setting up a household/parenting plan that both can agree to should be a requirement before getting the marriage license  ;-).  That isn’t to say that people still might not change their minds once they are in it — you can’t always predict how you will feel living with a decision day in and day out — but at least you would have discussed it. >The problem is, that when he disciplines, his words come out sounding >harsher than he intends.  

Generally, I’ve found this to be a male trait (more than female).  My DH does a bit of that too.  Then again, as he’s pointed out to me, I think I may just **notice** it more coming from him.  He’s pointed out a time or two when I’ve said stuff that I would have "pinged" him for (like you, in private — NEVER in front of the kids).   I never say anything to him in front of the kids, >because I don’t want to undermine him.  I do however, bring it up in >private.  Never in an accusatory way – just maybe a "Honey, that sounded a >little rough".  Nine times out of ten, he’ll tell me that he could have >handled it better.  He knows he a hard person; he’s admitted it to my girls. >The tenth time, he won’t back down and that’s when we have to get down to >the nitty gritty.

I’m not sure what you mean here… that he won’t back down.  What is it, behaviorally, that you want him to do? >Now, bear in mind, these are just the times I think he’s wrong.  There are >times when he handles it wonderfully and I always tell him so.  I am not >always 100% right.  I parent using more of a positive reinforcement method >and he does the opposite – he’s more of the type that does it by putting >them in their place.  I figure I raised two daughters that turned out very >well this way – maybe it’ll work for this problem too.  Luckily my daughters >are older, and don’t get in much trouble.  

I do both.  I’m very positive with my kids — we spend a lot of time laughing and talking, and are very affectionate — but I also "put them in their place".  It doesn’t have to be one way or the other.  AAMOF, I think a good combination of the two is the best way.  :-) It’s mainly for them being, what >he calls "disrespectful to me".  To me, it’s them pushing the boundaries and >being a bratty teenager.  Trust me, I’ll have my mouth open to say something >to them, and he’ll insert his words, before I get a chance.  I am not a >softie and can be hard myself.  Just ask my daughters!  ;-)

Here you have one of the ubiquitous arguments on this ng — whether or not one adult should intervene on the behalf of another in stepparenting situations. It is one of the more polarizing arguments.  Some are very much where you are — that you should handle your relationship with the kids, with no interference from your spouse.  Same goes for the spouse.   I’m of a different school of thought.  For me, the marriage needs to be the center of the family, and the couple bests functions as a unit.  That means I wouldn’t mind if my husband were to intervene when I was having a conflict with my kids.  In fact, it would make me feel good that we were supporting one another.  I would want that in a non-blended family, and I want it in a stepfamily too.   Again, as I said before, I think either way can be successful (my situation certainly is), depending on the participants.  My kids just know that my DH and I are a unit.  There isn’t an expectation that they can say something to one of us, without the other having the capability for input, because we’ve never led them to believe that that expectation has any validity.  I think that is incredibly important.  Whichever way you two decide to deal with it, I think you need to be consistent and give very clear messages to the kids.  If you give mixed messages, I think you are majorly setting yourself up for problems. >I’m as much worried about the issue itself, as the problem that you >mentioned above.  I want him to be comfortable in our marriage and in his >role as the stepfather.  Step-parenting is far more difficult than I ever >imagined that it would be!  

Yeppers.   Having an ex-wife in the picture ain’t too fun >either, but that’s for another newsgroup.  Is there an >alt.exwife.needs.to.butt.out newsgroup around??  Just teasing… sort of.

You can do venting here to.  It helps if you put "Vent" in the subject line, so people know that you are just running off at the mouth, and they take what you say with a grain of salt, for the moment.  :-) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> I don’t know how you can work out this problem successfully.  How >important is >> it to him that he be able to discipline?  If it is VERY important to him, >could >> you get behind that — fully — if that was what the two of you decided? >> Alternatively, what does he say about the times he’s remained quiet… how >is >> that impacting on your relationship, and his relationship with your kids? >I >> know myself well enough to know that, if I felt that I was an adult with >no >> authority over the kids, I’d resent the kids, and my spouse. >He wants to do what’s right.  If it means stepping aside and letting me >handle 100% of the discipline, then that’s what he wants to do.

Hmmm… then I don’t see the problem.  I mean, if you are both happy with that, then, as Nike says, just do it!  But – I do >worry about how it’ll make him feel.  I don’t want to emasculate him.  I >want him to be their stepfather, along with all the responsibilities that >come along with it.  I just don’t want any of it at my daughters expense. >It’s worth it to me, to fight for the answers.

Sooo…. is he giving you signals that he wouldn’t be happy with that arrangement, or is that coming from inside your own head?   Personally, I don’t think he should have to have *any* responsibilities, if he has no disciplinary rights.  I mean…. if you expect him to take a parenting role with them, but pull out the trump card of "But I’m the real parent, so I’ve decided that you can’t discipline", I think that is wrong.  (sorry)  IMO, you can’t have it both ways.  If you want to be the sole parent, do that. There are many people on this newsgroup that do that.  But, you shouldn’t cherrypick on which role *you* want him to fulfill. >Thanks for your perspective.  I really appreciate it.

Eh, no problem.  I’ll give you my opinion (as will others) and you can take what you think will work, and leave the rest behind.  In any case, I hope you aren’t offended… I’m just telling you how I see things. Sheila – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Suzanne >> Sheila

Response:

> > Well, I’ll admit that when we met, child rearing wasn’t discussed as > > far as discipline goes.  Seems so basic, but it never came up.  I > > have full custody of my two, one of which moves out for college on > > Friday.  My other daughter is 14 1/2.  His daughter is only with us > > every other weekend and she’s only six. > This ought to be a required discussion (and resolution) before any marriages > with children take place.  It would save an amazing amount of trouble.

Well, now I realize it.  We never had a round table discussion about it, but I’m sure somewhere along the road, war stories (especially mine) came up. But did we ask each other how we would handle it in a marriage?  No.  Should we have?  Well, I sure think so now! I know I’m not the only one though.  My business partner is having a horrible time with her similar situation, to the tune of the SS not being allowed to come back to the house.  Ouch.  I do *not* want to see us get to that point. I was married a looooong time to my first husband and went through a horrible time after our divorce.  Made some bad choices and got my life back together.  I much prefer the "life back together" stage and will fight tooth and nail to keep from going backwards. Ironically, my husband and I are rock solid.  I know it sounds stupid, in light of my post, but this is our only issue and we’re both very dedicated to working on it.  I would be a fool to not work on it, especially considering that it’s short-term.  My youngest will be in college in less than four years.  My husband should last a lifetime. <snip> > > I’m as much worried about the issue itself, as the problem that you > > mentioned above.  I want him to be comfortable in our marriage and in > > his role as the stepfather.  Step-parenting is far more difficult > > than I ever imagined that it would be!  Having an ex-wife in the > > picture ain’t too fun either, but that’s for another newsgroup.  Is > > there an alt.exwife.needs.to.butt.out newsgroup around??  Just > > teasing… sort of. > No, that is for this newsgroup, too!

Oh boy, then you’re in for a treat!  ;-) <snip> > Every household its own comfort level for these things.  You have not been > married that long, right?  It may iron out.  Brian and I ironed out this > issue before we were married, so I we had less than a handfull of > discussions about it maybe the first year we were married and after that, > basically never. We are on the same page.  Would it be helpful for the two > of you to sit down and try to work out a plan when there is not an actual > disciplinary infraction taking place – in a calm moment, IOW?

We’re working towards our first anniversary.  I feel like we’re trying to get on the same page, but that we need a little guidance.  We haven’t ruled out counseling – something that my ex would never agree to.  My DH is as dedicated to the issue as I am, thank God.  We’re both very aware of what we have. We are doing what you’re suggesting.  He knows I’m searching the internet and newsgroups in search of answers.  I’ve done some research on some good books (still open to suggestions though!) and I plan on buying a few tomorrow.  I’m the type that will research something to death.  :-/ Suzanne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > **Geri** > "Remember, never take no cutoffs and hurry along as fast as you can." > Virginia Reed, Donner Party

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - Suzanne wrote: >>> My husband is a wonderful man in every way.  I know that sounds >>> impossible, if I’m complaining about him, but it’s not so much >>> *him*, as the issue of us needing to find out how we need to be >>> handling the issue of discipline – as in who does it – and how to >>> handle damage that has already been caused. > <snip original post > >> I don’t think there is a general consensus on this.  There seems to >> be many different ways of approaching this, and different approaches >> can be successful, depending on the people.  No one size fitting >> all, here. >> I think your biggest problem is going to be that you and you DH >> aren’t starting off on the same page.  I can understand your DH’s >> point of view.  I couldn’t live in a house where I wasn’t an >> authority figure for the children in the house (of course, I also >> wouldn’t marry if I knew that I wouldn’t be that authority figure, >> so maybe he and I are different in that way!).  The problem, as I >> see it, is going to be in the one of you who is doing it "the other >> way" feeling resentful on a day to day basis.  If you "give in" and >> let him be an authority figure before you think he should, it is >> likely to grate on you whenever you hear him doing something you >> think is wrong.  If he gives in, he’s likely to feel angry and >> resentful when he’s expected to keep his mouth shut. > Well, I’ll admit that when we met, child rearing wasn’t discussed as > far as discipline goes.  Seems so basic, but it never came up.  I > have full custody of my two, one of which moves out for college on > Friday.  My other daughter is 14 1/2.  His daughter is only with us > every other weekend and she’s only six.

This ought to be a required discussion (and resolution) before any marriages with children take place.  It would save an amazing amount of trouble. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The problem is, that when he disciplines, his words come out sounding > harsher than he intends.  I never say anything to him in front of the > kids, because I don’t want to undermine him.  I do however, bring it > up in private.  Never in an accusatory way – just maybe a "Honey, > that sounded a little rough".  Nine times out of ten, he’ll tell me > that he could have handled it better.  He knows he a hard person; > he’s admitted it to my girls. The tenth time, he won’t back down and > that’s when we have to get down to the nitty gritty. > Now, bear in mind, these are just the times I think he’s wrong. > There are times when he handles it wonderfully and I always tell him > so.  I am not always 100% right.  I parent using more of a positive > reinforcement method and he does the opposite – he’s more of the type > that does it by putting them in their place.  I figure I raised two > daughters that turned out very well this way – maybe it’ll work for > this problem too.  Luckily my daughters are older, and don’t get in > much trouble.  It’s mainly for them being, what he calls > "disrespectful to me".  To me, it’s them pushing the boundaries and > being a bratty teenager.  Trust me, I’ll have my mouth open to say > something to them, and he’ll insert his words, before I get a chance. > I am not a softie and can be hard myself.  Just ask my daughters! > > I’m as much worried about the issue itself, as the problem that you > mentioned above.  I want him to be comfortable in our marriage and in > his role as the stepfather.  Step-parenting is far more difficult > than I ever imagined that it would be!  Having an ex-wife in the > picture ain’t too fun either, but that’s for another newsgroup.  Is > there an alt.exwife.needs.to.butt.out newsgroup around??  Just > teasing… sort of.

No, that is for this newsgroup, too! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> I don’t know how you can work out this problem successfully.  How >> important is it to him that he be able to discipline?  If it is VERY >> important to him, could you get behind that — fully — if that was >> what the two of you decided? Alternatively, what does he say about >> the times he’s remained quiet… how is that impacting on your >> relationship, and his relationship with your kids? I know myself >> well enough to know that, if I felt that I was an adult with no >> authority over the kids, I’d resent the kids, and my spouse. > He wants to do what’s right.  If it means stepping aside and letting > me handle 100% of the discipline, then that’s what he wants to do. > But – I do worry about how it’ll make him feel.  I don’t want to > emasculate him.  I want him to be their stepfather, along with all > the responsibilities that come along with it.  I just don’t want any > of it at my daughters expense. It’s worth it to me, to fight for the > answers. > Thanks for your perspective.  I really appreciate it.

Every household its own comfort level for these things.  You have not been married that long, right?  It may iron out.  Brian and I ironed out this issue before we were married, so I we had less than a handfull of discussions about it maybe the first year we were married and after that, basically never. We are on the same page.  Would it be helpful for the two of you to sit down and try to work out a plan when there is not an actual disciplinary infraction taking place – in a calm moment, IOW? — **Geri** "Remember, never take no cutoffs and hurry along as fast as you can." Virginia Reed, Donner Party

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