Run Run Away

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going to answer your questions from my own experience.  Keep in mind that you may be very different. I’ve been running for 3 weeks now and the groups I run wiht runs 3 times a week (Tuesday, Thursday, Friday). I started of on the first week running once, second week twice and last week 3 times. I find 3 times a week to be too few.  I get an enormous mood elevation after the first 2 miles.  I have grown to depend on it to get through the day. How far? How fast? I get a elevated sense of well-being after 2 miles at a 10 min/mile pace.  10 minutes is not enough for me. Beginners should try not to extend their effort too quickly. A good That is a good suggestion. guideline I like to suggest is go by time. So for example as you begin, you can go three times a week, but each run only 10minutes long. You should run (or mix running and walking) at a pace where you can still talk. When you can run the entire time comfortably (and that includes not being sore the next day), then begin extending the time a little, say to 15minutes each run. When you get to 30minutes each run you can consider adding more days. At that point you would then also start to make different runs on different days, one day a faster 30minute run, while another day a longer than 30minute run. This is trite.  How did you come up with such a scheme?  10 minutes? Will that produce any signficant health benefits?  Everything I read suggested at least 20 minutes.  If you can’t run 20 minutes you run and walk as you suggested.

Having a goal that beginners can easily reach sets up a positive feedback. When they cannot run for even 10minutes, getting them to keep going for 20 on their first runs sets up a tough goal. For advice, I try to err on the conservative/safe side. Yes the best benefit comes from 20minutes or more, at least three times a week. Walking for even 10minutes does help. It’s the repetition over many days that seems to build up the benefit. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My question is regarding leg / knee soreness or stiffness. – how much of it should I expect / how much is normal ? Most likely you are going too far, too fast for you condition. You body needs time to adjust. One thing a beginner needs to figure out is whether his/her bottle neck lies.  If the person is very overweight.  It may be a good idea to try to bike or swim instead.  This is because his/her joints may not ever adjust to the running activity until the excess pounds come off. Another thing to determine is his/her goal.  For me, I don’t get sore if I run 5 miles or less, but if I were to run 7 miles or more I will get sore.  But does anyone really want to run 7 miles?  That is a personal question.  For me, the answer is I don’t want to be sore more than one day a week so I adjust my intensity accordingly.  Someone may want to run harder than that, but I don’t think it is worth it for me because I risk injuries.  Incidentally, in the more than 2 years I have run actively I only have to stop running due to injury for 2 days.  The lesson I learned from that injury was not to sprint if I were not used to sprinting.  The slight injury to my left hamstring healed in 2 days.

Good general advice. As the saying goes: we are each an experiment of one. FWIW, I tend to both give and take advice conservatively. I’ve managed to run with no runnning related time off for about 12years now. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This depend on my physical condition.  I once restarted my running after 1 month or two of layoff.  After my first run, my muscles were terribly sore for about a week.  It was so painful that I could hardly walk.  It was probably because my muscles were not able to get rid of the lactic acid quickly enough. If it was a week of soreness it was like NOT lactic acid. Running produces micro-tears in the muscles. Running hard when muscles are not ready can produce even more. Manworld, you likely tried to run at your pre-layoff level and suffered for it. Probably so.  I remembered the run was done at a 8 min/mile pace for 2 miles.  Felt great during the run…. little or no sign of soreness or stiffness on at least 6 days of the week.  If I train harder than that, I may need to skip days, and that will have a depressive effect on me which may cause me to skip more days.  As for knee soreness, I become very concerned if there is ANY soreness or swelling of my knees.  This is because knee injuries can lead to an abrupt end to my running.  If I experience any knee soreness I expect it to be gone in 48 hours. Meaning you take off two days if your knees are sore after a run? Not a bad idea. But it does sound like you go hard in every run. Try to put a little more variety in your training runs. You may be surprised at the results. How did you come to that conclusion?  You may be confusing my post with that from the original poster.  I have given you no information on how much or how fast I run.  The only information I provided was how I react pain if any from my runs.  When I wrote that I aim to have absolutely no pain in 6 out of 7 days a week, it does not mean I run 6 or 7 days a week.

I did read it as meaning you run 6days or more per week. …  All it means is that I will do no more than 1 very hard day a week that may produce discomfort after the run.  It is in my opinion that regularity is more important than intensity for people who run for health.  I disagree on your fiat statement about variety.

But is sounds like you incorporate the variety to a small extent at least. What I meant was, for example, for a three times per week runner, you might have one short easy run, one short hard(ie fast) run, and one long easy run. The regularity is getting out there three days per week consistantly. Don’t you agree? It all depends on whether you are trying to improve your running performance.  If I were not interested in improving, I don’t need any hard days.  I will just run 3.5 miles at an easy pace most days of the week.  That is adequate to keep most people healthy.

OR 30minutes three days per week. Again time here is a little better measure. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – – how long might it take for me to get my " runners legs " ? If by "runners legs" you mean not sore for most days of the week, I got my runners legs after I lost 35 lbs.  It took me several months. Typically, the day after teh runs my knees are a tad sore, but if I am runing, no discomfort whatsoever. Beginners must allow time for their whole body to adjust, including the skeletal system. Assuming you moderate your pace, you should be fine in a few weeks. But this is very individual. One last suggestion: make sure you have decent shoes. Ah shoes!  I tried the expensive ($70+) New Balance and I hated it.  I use a cheap pair of Spaldings Anton from Target at $20 a pair and loved it.  Your mileage may vary.  I run very lightly, a result from years of Karate and Aikido training. I have come to the conclusion that a lot of runners are terrible consumers, equating price with quality.  I suggest people become aware of the condition of their legs, and use their awareness and not the price tag to choose their shoes.

good advice.  All I would add is something I have mentioned other times on the shoe topic: there is no such thing as a break-in period for running shoes, IMHO. If they don’t feel right and comfortable just out of the box, don’t buy them. Enjoy the run.  Ed

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going to answer your questions from my own experience.  Keep in mind that you may be very different. I’ve been running for 3 weeks now and the groups I run wiht runs 3 times a week (Tuesday, Thursday, Friday). I started of on the first week running once, second week twice and last week 3 times. I find 3 times a week to be too few.  I get an enormous mood elevation after the first 2 miles.  I have grown to depend on it to get through the day. How far? How fast?

I get a elevated sense of well-being after 2 miles at a 10 min/mile pace.  10 minutes is not enough for me. Beginners should try not to extend their effort too quickly. A good

That is a good suggestion. guideline I like to suggest is go by time. So for example as you begin, you can go three times a week, but each run only 10minutes long. You should run (or mix running and walking) at a pace where you can still talk. When you can run the entire time comfortably (and that includes not being sore the next day), then begin extending the time a little, say to 15minutes each run. When you get to 30minutes each run you can consider adding more days. At that point you would then also start to make different runs on different days, one day a faster 30minute run, while another day a longer than 30minute run.

This is trite.  How did you come up with such a scheme?  10 minutes? Will that produce any signficant health benefits?  Everything I read suggested at least 20 minutes.  If you can’t run 20 minutes you run and walk as you suggested. My question is regarding leg / knee soreness or stiffness. – how much of it should I expect / how much is normal ? Most likely you are going too far, too fast for you condition. You body needs time to adjust.

One thing a beginner needs to figure out is whether his/her bottle neck lies.  If the person is very overweight.  It may be a good idea to try to bike or swim instead.  This is because his/her joints may not ever adjust to the running activity until the excess pounds come off. Another thing to determine is his/her goal.  For me, I don’t get sore if I run 5 miles or less, but if I were to run 7 miles or more I will get sore.  But does anyone really want to run 7 miles?  That is a personal question.  For me, the answer is I don’t want to be sore more than one day a week so I adjust my intensity accordingly.  Someone may want to run harder than that, but I don’t think it is worth it for me because I risk injuries.  Incidentally, in the more than 2 years I have run actively I only have to stop running due to injury for 2 days.  The lesson I learned from that injury was not to sprint if I were not used to sprinting.  The slight injury to my left hamstring healed in 2 days. This depend on my physical condition.  I once restarted my running after 1 month or two of layoff.  After my first run, my muscles were terribly sore for about a week.  It was so painful that I could hardly walk.  It was probably because my muscles were not able to get rid of the lactic acid quickly enough. If it was a week of soreness it was like NOT lactic acid. Running produces micro-tears in the muscles. Running hard when muscles are not ready can produce even more. Manworld, you likely tried to run at your pre-layoff level and suffered for it.

Probably so.  I remembered the run was done at a 8 min/mile pace for 2 miles.  Felt great during the run…. little or no sign of soreness or stiffness on at least 6 days of the week.  If I train harder than that, I may need to skip days, and that will have a depressive effect on me which may cause me to skip more days.  As for knee soreness, I become very concerned if there is ANY soreness or swelling of my knees.  This is because knee injuries can lead to an abrupt end to my running.  If I experience any knee soreness I expect it to be gone in 48 hours. Meaning you take off two days if your knees are sore after a run? Not a bad idea. But it does sound like you go hard in every run. Try to put a little more variety in your training runs. You may be surprised at the results.

How did you come to that conclusion?  You may be confusing my post with that from the original poster.  I have given you no information on how much or how fast I run.  The only information I provided was how I react pain if any from my runs.  When I wrote that I aim to have absolutely no pain in 6 out of 7 days a week, it does not mean I run 6 or 7 days a week.  All it means is that I will do no more than 1 very hard day a week that may produce discomfort after the run.  It is in my opinion that regularity is more important than intensity for people who run for health.  I disagree on your fiat statement about variety. It all depends on whether you are trying to improve your running performance.  If I were not interested in improving, I don’t need any hard days.  I will just run 3.5 miles at an easy pace most days of the week.  That is adequate to keep most people healthy. – how long might it take for me to get my " runners legs " ? If by "runners legs" you mean not sore for most days of the week, I got my runners legs after I lost 35 lbs.  It took me several months. Typically, the day after teh runs my knees are a tad sore, but if I am runing, no discomfort whatsoever. Beginners must allow time for their whole body to adjust, including the skeletal system. Assuming you moderate your pace, you should be fine in a few weeks. But this is very individual. One last suggestion: make sure you have decent shoes.

Ah shoes!  I tried the expensive ($70+) New Balance and I hated it.  I use a cheap pair of Spaldings Anton from Target at $20 a pair and loved it.  Your mileage may vary.  I run very lightly, a result from years of Karate and Aikido training. I have come to the conclusion that a lot of runners are terrible consumers, equating price with quality.  I suggest people become aware of the condition of their legs, and use their awareness and not the price tag to choose their shoes. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Welcome to runnng and enjoy the run.     Ed

Response:

Firstly, thanks for all the suggestions and information. This depend on my physical condition.  I once restarted my running after 1 month or two of layoff.  After my first run, my muscles were terribly sore for about a week.  It was so painful that I could hardly walk.  It was probably because my muscles were not able to get rid of the lactic acid quickly enough.  These days I expect to experience little or no sign of soreness or stiffness on at least 6 days of the week.  If I train harder than that, I may need to skip days, and that will have a depressive effect on me which may cause me to skip more days.  As for knee soreness, I become very concerned if there is ANY soreness or swelling of my knees.  This is because knee injuries can lead to an abrupt end to my running.  If I experience any knee soreness I expect it to be gone in 48 hours.

I’m currently trying the rolling of the quads on the current week of runs, seems ok thus far. Seems that it is helping quite a bit, but I want to keep up with it for a while to get a complete feel. One thing is with the flexibility, it’s getting worse and worse (I’m rather flexible to begin wiht, but it’s decreasing with the running – so I have to stretch much more). If by "runners legs" you mean not sore for most days of the week, I got my runners legs after I lost 35 lbs.  It took me several months.

I’ll update in a few months then. Typically, the day after teh runs my knees are a tad sore, but if I am runing, no discomfort whatsoever.

Exactly what I’m experiencing. I have no discomfort at all if I’m running, but stairs are the big pain.

Response:

f you w

Response:

I am going to answer your questions from my own experience.  Keep in mind that you may be very different. I’ve been running for 3 weeks now and the groups I run wiht runs 3 times a week (Tuesday, Thursday, Friday). I started of on the first week running once, second week twice and last week 3 times. I find 3 times a week to be too few.  I get an enormous mood elevation after the first 2 miles.  I have grown to depend on it to get through the day.

How far? How fast? Beginners should try not to extend their effort too quickly. A good guideline I like to suggest is go by time. So for example as you begin, you can go three times a week, but each run only 10minutes long. You should run (or mix running and walking) at a pace where you can still talk. When you can run the entire time comfortably (and that includes not being sore the next day), then begin extending the time a little, say to 15minutes each run. When you get to 30minutes each run you can consider adding more days. At that point you would then also start to make different runs on different days, one day a faster 30minute run, while another day a longer than 30minute run. My question is regarding leg / knee soreness or stiffness. – how much of it should I expect / how much is normal ?

Most likely you are going too far, too fast for you condition. You body needs time to adjust. This depend on my physical condition.  I once restarted my running after 1 month or two of layoff.  After my first run, my muscles were terribly sore for about a week.  It was so painful that I could hardly walk.  It was probably because my muscles were not able to get rid of the lactic acid quickly enough.

If it was a week of soreness it was like NOT lactic acid. Running produces micro-tears in the muscles. Running hard when muscles are not ready can produce even more. Manworld, you likely tried to run at your pre-layoff level and suffered for it. little or no sign of soreness or stiffness on at least 6 days of the week.  If I train harder than that, I may need to skip days, and that will have a depressive effect on me which may cause me to skip more days.  As for knee soreness, I become very concerned if there is ANY soreness or swelling of my knees.  This is because knee injuries can lead to an abrupt end to my running.  If I experience any knee soreness I expect it to be gone in 48 hours.

Meaning you take off two days if your knees are sore after a run? Not a bad idea. But it does sound like you go hard in every run. Try to put a little more variety in your training runs. You may be surprised at the results. – how long might it take for me to get my " runners legs " ? If by "runners legs" you mean not sore for most days of the week, I got my runners legs after I lost 35 lbs.  It took me several months. Typically, the day after teh runs my knees are a tad sore, but if I am runing, no discomfort whatsoever.

Beginners must allow time for their whole body to adjust, including the skeletal system. Assuming you moderate your pace, you should be fine in a few weeks. But this is very individual. One last suggestion: make sure you have decent shoes. Welcome to runnng and enjoy the run.     Ed

Response:

So, you want joggers legs, huh?  I had no idea that the splotchy, red, emaciated look was in right now.  

Response:

f you w

With that tiny pecker you have John, chances are you could, and he wouldn’t even wake up.

Response:

New runners (or any sort of exercise) may have sore muscles for two weeks until they used it.  Joint soreness is a more serious symptom that something is wrong.  Let me guess: you bought new shoes fitted by a professional running store before starting running, didnt you? [ Nine out of ten times bad shoes are the problem. ]

Response:

actually, I did. I went to Running Room (on the recomendations of the group) and first pair was a Saucony. They bit me on the heel (right foot) so I took them back, and now I’m on a brooks pair. So far so good with the new pair.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – New runners (or any sort of exercise) may have sore muscles for two weeks until they used it.  Joint soreness is a more serious symptom that something is wrong.  Let me guess: you bought new shoes fitted by a professional running store before starting running, didnt you? [ Nine out of ten times bad shoes are the problem. ]

Response:

I am going to answer your questions from my own experience.  Keep in mind that you may be very different. I’ve been running for 3 weeks now and the groups I run wiht runs 3 times a week (Tuesday, Thursday, Friday). I started of on the first week running once, second week twice and last week 3 times.

I find 3 times a week to be too few.  I get an enormous mood elevation after the first 2 miles.  I have grown to depend on it to get through the day. My question is regarding leg / knee soreness or stiffness. – how much of it should I expect / how much is normal ?

This depend on my physical condition.  I once restarted my running after 1 month or two of layoff.  After my first run, my muscles were terribly sore for about a week.  It was so painful that I could hardly walk.  It was probably because my muscles were not able to get rid of the lactic acid quickly enough.  These days I expect to experience little or no sign of soreness or stiffness on at least 6 days of the week.  If I train harder than that, I may need to skip days, and that will have a depressive effect on me which may cause me to skip more days.  As for knee soreness, I become very concerned if there is ANY soreness or swelling of my knees.  This is because knee injuries can lead to an abrupt end to my running.  If I experience any knee soreness I expect it to be gone in 48 hours. – how long might it take for me to get my " runners legs " ?

If by "runners legs" you mean not sore for most days of the week, I got my runners legs after I lost 35 lbs.  It took me several months. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Typically, the day after teh runs my knees are a tad sore, but if I am runing, no discomfort whatsoever.

Response:

I’ve been running for 3 weeks now and the groups I run wiht runs 3 times a week (Tuesday, Thursday, Friday). I started of on the first week running once, second week twice and last week 3 times. My question is regarding leg / knee soreness or stiffness. – how much of it should I expect / how much is normal ? – how long might it take for me to get my " runners legs " ? Typically, the day after teh runs my knees are a tad sore, but if I am runing, no discomfort whatsoever.

La Pedrera, You knees need to have the quads kneaded.   Check out www.mindfulness.com/of5.asp for some ideas on rolling out your quads.   Some previous posts that might be of help in your thinking about your knees, which most often than not is caused by the quads or the hamstrings being too tight.  There’s a lot to look at as you continue thta deals with your form and style of running.  It’s about learning to run lighter, with the foot landing more under your center of gravity and with your foot landing more flat rather than landing on the back of the heel. Oz Post #1 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am looking for a bit of advice, I have recently started to increase my mileage (outdoors, mostly on road) and in the last month or so my right knee has started to give me grief after running. Its a generally feeling of stiffness, slight discomfort not localized in any particular place but across the whole knee. It is particularly noticeable when going down stairs. It doesn’t give me any problems when running but a couple of hours after/next day it seems to stiffen up. From what i’ve read it seems to be "runners knee", I think I roll my right foot more than the left but whether that is the root cause I am not sure. I have read some of Ozzie’s posts on this or similar, (Sept 1st on rolling pins and facia release) and that is a long term cure/relief, what I was wonder is what I should do now? Stop running for a couple of weeks. Cut down on my running. Only run on soft surfaces or treadmills. Wear a (neoprene) knee support. Seek medical advice.  or none of the above.