Run Run Away

Question:

I have talked to a lot of people about the marathon, and the basic gist of what they tell me is "Don’t go out too fast, or you will be very unhappy later on in the race."  The question is, how do I know what is too fast?  From what I’ve been told, sometime a runner will feel great in the first half of the race only to disintegrate in the last half.  Does the strategy of not worrying about time too much in my first marathon, running at below 70% MHR for the first half of the marathon, and only running hard past the 22 mile mark sound like a good idea?  One problem is that I’m not the worlds smartest runner, and I’ve had some shorter races which I’ve shown less than stellar judgement in regards to pacing – I know that dragging my sorry butt across the finish line wasn’t much fun for 10k, and I certainly don’t want to have that experience with the marathon! Thanks, –Ted. —

Response:

last half.  Does the strategy of not worrying about time too much in my first marathon, running at below 70% MHR for the first half of the marathon, and only running hard past the 22 mile mark sound like a good idea?  One problem is that I’m not the worlds smartest

are you going to wear a heart rate monitor during the race?  not sure how heart rate plays into this (since i never monitored mine) although from a recent thread it seems some people may run at various speeds with the same heart rate anyway, i would say "only running hard past the 22 mile mark" may not be the best strategy. in my experience, for the first 13 to 16 miles, even though you won’t feel like you’re running hard, you are !!  all the adrenalin and anxiety in your body will make it run faster but still feel relaxed! my method which seems to work is to run at a rate so slow that you feel some discomfort (from all the adrenalin in your body and all the anxiety not being satisfied by a quicker racepace)..  this worked for me.  If you have a watch and knowyour min/miles from your training runs (i.e. you run 8min/miles in your training runs) then add maybe 1 min to 1.5 minutes to that for the first 4 miles. after that , just run relaxed but with a conscious effort to go a bit slower (you will probably surprise yourself that with the conscious effort to go slower you probably will be right on target with your training pace ..in our example, 8 min).  After mile 13, start to run relaxed and you’ll see you will pick your pace up a bit. i would say following the above should get you through okay.   Running slow for the first 30 min or so (first 4 miles) is important because this is when most of your calories are coming from carbs!! Running 8min miles for the first 30 minutes could burn 25% more carbs then running 8min miles for the second 30 minutes (when your body decides to start using a bit more fat instead of carbs for energy) (actual percentages vary widely depending on body type/genetics but the same idea should hold true) And youw ill need all the carbs you can get because using any type of your body’s energy stores (fat/carb/muscle/etc..)will require some amount of glycogen(carbs) for the process to take place. -ben

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Ted, : Assuming you are not into HRM usage, and assuming you may have run a : 10k or 5k recently (honest effort also assumed), try this: Actually, I have a HRM, I like gadgets. The last race I ran in 42:36 at an average heart rate of 187 of a maximum 204 BPM, so I guess that would pretty much be an honest effort. :  Just control the pace early on. You can : never recover what’s lost (energy), but can always use what’s left. Yes, almost every message I’ve received suggests starting off slowly – I think that might be the way to go.   I have run some group runs at 7:14 pace, and although it’s not bad, I don’t think I could keep it up for 26 miles, even with a walk break every 10 minutes.   Thanks, –Ted

Here’s an approach using the HRM. Your 10k HR, at 187 was 92% of MHR which was 204. It is suggested by Peak Runnig Performace www.peakrun.com   That 92% is a consistent value for a 10k effort heart rate. Again assuming (assumptions are, of course chancey) that your 10k running speed is at the upper end of your Anaerobc Threshold, at 92%, then the lower end of AT should be near 87%. That  is based on calculating a straight percentage of Max HR. Since your max is 204, then 87% is close to 177 BPM. Target your marathon pace, based on HR  to be 2%-3% below the lower end of AT. That would put you in the range of 172-174 BPM. If you stay in that range you should always be on the safe side of AT, thereby rationing your energy at a controlled rate and finishing strongly. That was my experience a few weeks ago. Later I found out my MHR was higher than previuosly determined – causing me to run more conservatively than intended. At least I felt great at the end. HTH ~~~~ Denny A.  Denny Anderson  To ERR is human… to ZIN, divine!

Response:

        If you feel great early, you are going to fast. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have talked to a lot of people about the marathon, and the basic gist of what they tell me is "Don’t go out too fast, or you will be very unhappy later on in the race."  The question is, how do I know what is too fast?  From what I’ve been told, sometime a runner will feel great in the first half of the race only to disintegrate in the last half.  Does the strategy of not worrying about time too much in my first marathon, running at below 70% MHR for the first half of the marathon, and only running hard past the 22 mile mark sound like a good idea?  One problem is that I’m not the worlds smartest runner, and I’ve had some shorter races which I’ve shown less than stellar judgement in regards to pacing – I know that dragging my sorry butt across the finish line wasn’t much fun for 10k, and I certainly don’t want to have that experience with the marathon! Thanks, –Ted. —

Response:

: Ted, : Assuming you are not into HRM usage, and assuming you may have run a : 10k or 5k recently (honest effort also assumed), try this: : On a track, run a couple of miles at 12-15 seconds per mile below your : 10k  pace (or 24-30 sec below 5k pace). Concentrate on how this FEELS, : as in subjective feelings about the effort. Actually, I have a HRM, I like gadgets. The last race I ran in 42:36 at an average heart rate of 187 of a maximum 204 BPM, so I guess that would pretty much be an honest effort. : Let’s say that the runing speed determined is 7:46, based on a 10k : pace of 7:32. : To determine your desired marathon pace, increase the min/mile pace by : 2%-3%. Then your target Marathon pace is: : Pace = 7:45*1.02 (or 1.03) = 7:53 (or 8:00).  The target range is then : 7:53-8:00 min/mile. Ok, so 6:51+15 seconds works out to 7:06 per mile  - this yields a pace of between 7:14 and 7:19. : If you want to be cautious start out at 15-20 seconds slower than the : target. That will help in getting into that fat burning mode early : (first 2 or 3 miles), and help get a feeling for how things are going. : So, for the example, start at 8:15-8:20 min/mile, and gradually : acelerate to 8 min per. If things are still lookin’ good, then : continue at 7:53-8:00 pace.  Just control the pace early on. You can : never recover what’s lost (energy), but can always use what’s left. Yes, almost every message I’ve received suggests starting off slowly – I think that might be the way to go.   I have run some group runs at 7:14 pace, and although it’s not bad, I don’t think I could keep it up for 26 miles, even with a walk break every 10 minutes.   Thanks, –Ted —

Response:

Ted, Don’t worry.  If you do decide to start out too fast, say at lactate threshold pace, you won’t have to "drag your but" anywhere, because you’ll be riding the dnf bus instead.. Seriously, your training should teach you what pace is right for you. I know of one runner that dnf because of a 10 second per mile too fast start. Good luck Johnny – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have talked to a lot of people about the marathon, and the basic gist of what they tell me is "Don’t go out too fast, or you will be very unhappy later on in the race."  The question is, how do I know what is too fast?  From what I’ve been told, sometime a runner will feel great in the first half of the race only to disintegrate in the last half.  Does the strategy of not worrying about time too much in my first marathon, running at below 70% MHR for the first half of the marathon, and only running hard past the 22 mile mark sound like a good idea?  One problem is that I’m not the worlds smartest runner, and I’ve had some shorter races which I’ve shown less than stellar judgement in regards to pacing – I know that dragging my sorry butt across the finish line wasn’t much fun for 10k, and I certainly don’t want to have that experience with the marathon! Thanks, –Ted. —

Response:

Ted, Assuming you are not into HRM usage, and assuming you may have run a 10k or 5k recently (honest effort also assumed), try this: On a track, run a couple of miles at 12-15 seconds per mile below your 10k  pace (or 24-30 sec below 5k pace). Concentrate on how this FEELS, as in subjective feelings about the effort. Let’s say that the runing speed determined is 7:46, based on a 10k pace of 7:32. To determine your desired marathon pace, increase the min/mile pace by 2%-3%. Then your target Marathon pace is: Pace = 7:45*1.02 (or 1.03) = 7:53 (or 8:00).  The target range is then 7:53-8:00 min/mile. If you want to be cautious start out at 15-20 seconds slower than the target. That will help in getting into that fat burning mode early (first 2 or 3 miles), and help get a feeling for how things are going. So, for the example, start at 8:15-8:20 min/mile, and gradually acelerate to 8 min per. If things are still lookin’ good, then continue at 7:53-8:00 pace.  Just control the pace early on. You can never recover what’s lost (energy), but can always use what’s left. I have talked to a lot of people about the marathon, and the basic gist of what they tell me is "Don’t go out too fast, or you will be very unhappy later on in the race."  The question is, how do I know what is too fast?  From what I’ve been told, sometime a runner will feel great in the first half of the race only to disintegrate in the last half.  Does the strategy of not worrying about time too much in my first marathon, running at below 70% MHR for the first half of the marathon, and only running hard past the 22 mile mark sound like a good idea?

Thanks, –Ted.

 Denny Anderson  To ERR is human… to ZIN, divine!

Response: