Run Run Away » marathon running

Anxiety if interaction is successful?

admin — Fri, 01 Jul 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

jizzlob…@intergate.com wrote in news:1120269206.229228.40390@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com: >> I changed my strategy. Any female must prove herself and not the >> opposite. > Good for you. Look at the (few) chapters of my "I Got Laid" series and > you would see how I put little effort into it. But then I don’t get > laid as much as I want to.

"Let me take a look at your resume, Miss Jones…hmmmmm…well I do believe you are qualified to suck my cock. Perhaps…*over* qualified? NOW SELL IT, BITCH! DO YOU WANT THE POSITION OR NOT?" — "Are you going to torture him?" "What would you do?" "I’d torture him." –Dog Soldiers.

Response:

>Good for you. Look at the (few) chapters of my "I Got Laid" series and

you would see how I put little effort into it. >But then I don’t get laid as much as I want to. Then maybe that technique isn’t working? If you guys would lower your standards to rock bottom levels it wouldn’t take much effort at all. The skanky girls are pretty direct about their attraction to a guy.

Response:

JimSummers wrote: > Yesterday I was really clicking with this lady and said all of the right > things but hours later after I went home I started feeling nervous because > it had gone well! Maybe I’m afraid of what Baba mentioned last year about > how every social step just leads you further and further toward more > vulnerability and pressure put on you to perform and to be "normal"

Abso-fucking-lutely. The women I’ve mentioned before on this newsgroup (like coffee girl), whenever things seemed to be going "well" with them, it just stressed me out more. I’ve fallen so deep into a rut that any sign of success is threatening.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > That’s the very definition of anxiety! If we could channel our minds > > into productive areas we’d be marathon running PhD musicians and > > linguist millionaires! > > KC > lol good point. Focus is everything. What happens with a person > depends on who or what they focus on. What’s bad is when the mind > focuses into a repetitive cycle that seems inescapable. It’s like a > vinyl record skipping. Unless you pick up the needle or jolt the > machine it will keep skipping until the power is shut off. One of the > ways to "unskip" a mind is to focus on something other than what you > find yourself getting trapped by. Hobbies are excellent forms of what > are sometimes called moving meditation. A hobby is a place where you > can lose yourself. Not sure about using hobbies too much, but they are > an excellent way to get the music playing again. My hobby is > gardening. > rgds, > lisa

That’s an excellent anaology Lisa, but a bit different from what I experienced. My experience would be more like 5000 volts of electricity running through the record player instead of the standard 120. KC

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -KC Carter wrote: > > > That’s the very definition of anxiety! If we could channel our minds > > > into productive areas we’d be marathon running PhD musicians and > > > linguist millionaires! > > > KC > > lol good point. Focus is everything. What happens with a person > > depends on who or what they focus on. What’s bad is when the mind > > focuses into a repetitive cycle that seems inescapable. It’s like a > > vinyl record skipping. Unless you pick up the needle or jolt the > > machine it will keep skipping until the power is shut off. One of the > > ways to "unskip" a mind is to focus on something other than what you > > find yourself getting trapped by. Hobbies are excellent forms of what > > are sometimes called moving meditation. A hobby is a place where you > > can lose yourself. Not sure about using hobbies too much, but they are > > an excellent way to get the music playing again. My hobby is > > gardening. > > rgds, > > lisa > That’s an excellent anaology Lisa, but a bit different from what I > experienced. My experience would be more like 5000 volts of electricity > running through the record player instead of the standard 120. > KC

What happened? rgds, lisa

Response:

I don’t know if my experience is meaningful to you at all, but yes, I do have anxiety after a positive interaction with someone new, and have a tendency to pick it apart trying to figure out if I screwed up and if they really like me. I fortunately don’t have to deal with that with strangers on a romantic front anymore, although I still sometimes worry about my interactions with my husband. — -=Lola —————- You’re living in your own private Idaho Living in your own private Idaho Underground like a wild potato. –B52s.

Response:

Yes. that is what scares me the most about female interaction. I can put a ‘normal’ front for most people I have to interact with during the day, but any potential girlfriend will have to be shown my messed up true self. That’s when they will turn and run.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -KC Carter wrote: > lisa wrote: > > JimSummers wrote: > > > Yesterday I was really clicking with this lady and said all of the right > > > things but hours later after I went home I started feeling nervous because > > > it had gone well! Maybe I’m afraid of what Baba mentioned last year about > > > how every social step just leads you further and further toward more > > > vulnerability and pressure put on you to perform and to be "normal" > > > Does anyone else feel this way? > > Yes. Analytical types will analyze the back of a cereal box if they > > have enough time. > > Based on my own experiences, a few things immediately spring to mind: > > Fear of success relates to what you’re saying. Also, if you are being > > forced into a "normal" mode when you know that standard is not your > > standard, you’re going against your nature. Remember that normal is > > standard and standard is average, which is what numerically more people > > are. What’s so great about average anyway? Also, you’ve probably been > > persecuted in some way by the "normal" people, so doing the normal > > thing probably triggers all kinds of insecurities. > > Back to analytical patterns… even though it’s your nature to > > analyze, it doesn’t mean that the mind should be allowed undisputed > > reign over you 24/7! > That’s the very definition of anxiety! If we could channel our minds > into productive areas we’d be marathon running PhD musicians and > linguist millionaires! > KC

lol good point. Focus is everything. What happens with a person depends on who or what they focus on. What’s bad is when the mind focuses into a repetitive cycle that seems inescapable. It’s like a vinyl record skipping. Unless you pick up the needle or jolt the machine it will keep skipping until the power is shut off. One of the ways to "unskip" a mind is to focus on something other than what you find yourself getting trapped by. Hobbies are excellent forms of what are sometimes called moving meditation. A hobby is a place where you can lose yourself. Not sure about using hobbies too much, but they are an excellent way to get the music playing again. My hobby is gardening. rgds, lisa

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -lisa wrote: > JimSummers wrote: > > Yesterday I was really clicking with this lady and said all of the right > > things but hours later after I went home I started feeling nervous because > > it had gone well! Maybe I’m afraid of what Baba mentioned last year about > > how every social step just leads you further and further toward more > > vulnerability and pressure put on you to perform and to be "normal" > > Does anyone else feel this way? > Yes. Analytical types will analyze the back of a cereal box if they > have enough time. > Based on my own experiences, a few things immediately spring to mind: > Fear of success relates to what you’re saying. Also, if you are being > forced into a "normal" mode when you know that standard is not your > standard, you’re going against your nature. Remember that normal is > standard and standard is average, which is what numerically more people > are. What’s so great about average anyway? Also, you’ve probably been > persecuted in some way by the "normal" people, so doing the normal > thing probably triggers all kinds of insecurities. > Back to analytical patterns… even though it’s your nature to > analyze, it doesn’t mean that the mind should be allowed undisputed > reign over you 24/7!

That’s the very definition of anxiety! If we could channel our minds into productive areas we’d be marathon running PhD musicians and linguist millionaires! KC

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Troll wrote: > jizzlob…@intergate.com wrote in > news:1120266842.611385.174420@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > > Troll wrote: > >> I have stopped caring to interact with females. I treat them like > >> shit or little boys if they behave and that’s all. I have been doing > >> this for the past few weeks and it has helped me immensely. No more > >> trouble. After all, if a female really wants to be with you she will > >> have no shame to show it clearly instead of implying it. No more self > >> torturing about whether she likes you or not. > >> As a matter of fact, you finally learn to live alone and find it > >> doesn’t deserve the trouble chasing pussy and dates. No unnecessary > >> expenses, no mind games and manipulation, no anxiety trying to make > >> some bitch like you, no rejection and no frustration. If you really > >> need pussy, pay for some escort, or even better get a good sex toy. > > This would be believable if it wasn’t coming from someone who is > > seemingly obsessed with female behavior. > I changed my strategy. Any female must prove herself and not the opposite.

Good for you. Look at the (few) chapters of my "I Got Laid" series and you would see how I put little effort into it. But then I don’t get laid as much as I want to.

Response:

Yes. Analytical types will analyze the back of a cereal box if they have enough time. Based on my own experiences, a few things immediately spring to mind: Fear of success relates to what you’re saying. Also, if you are being forced into a "normal" mode when you know that standard is not your standard, you’re going against your nature. Remember that normal is standard and standard is average, which is what numerically more people are. What’s so great about average anyway? Also, you’ve probably been persecuted in some way by the "normal" people, so doing the normal thing probably triggers all kinds of insecurities. Back to analytical patterns… even though it’s your nature to analyze, it doesn’t mean that the mind should be allowed undisputed reign over you 24/7! Try to just let things be with your lady friend and try not to allow yourself to get too attached to what happens next. Once the pressure is off of you, you will probably appear more relaxed and that can’t hurt. rgds, lisa

Response:

Troll wrote: > I have stopped caring to interact with females. I treat them like shit or > little boys if they behave and that’s all. I have been doing this for the > past few weeks and it has helped me immensely. No more trouble. After all, > if a female really wants to be with you she will have no shame to show it > clearly instead of implying it. No more self torturing about whether she > likes you or not. > As a matter of fact, you finally learn to live alone and find it doesn’t > deserve the trouble chasing pussy and dates. No unnecessary expenses, no > mind games and manipulation, no anxiety trying to make some bitch like you, > no rejection and no frustration. If you really need pussy, pay for some > escort, or even better get a good sex toy.

This would be believable if it wasn’t coming from someone who is seemingly obsessed with female behavior.

Response:

Yesterday I was really clicking with this lady and said all of the right things but hours later after I went home I started feeling nervous because it had gone well! Maybe I’m afraid of what Baba mentioned last year about how every social step just leads you further and further toward more vulnerability and pressure put on you to perform and to be "normal" Does anyone else feel this way?

Response:

In news:8f10dfce77c61866c213769e6d0cf323@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com, JimSummers wrote : > Yesterday I was really clicking with this lady and said all of the > right things but hours later after I went home I started feeling > nervous because it had gone well! Maybe I’m afraid of what Baba > mentioned last year about how every social step just leads you > further and further toward more vulnerability and pressure put on you > to perform and to be "normal" > Does anyone else feel this way?

well yeah.

Response:

getting the body out of the way

admin — Wed, 15 Sep 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Since the pool closed for the season on Labor Day (waaahhhhh) I was feeling at loose ends. I was still walking, but felt like I wanted to get more out of that time. I have never been a runner, yet I always wanted to. For various reasons, I let my body hold me back. I was too heavy, I couldn’t catch my breath, my feet hurt… I had all the excuses. I ran across an article on runner’s world website about jog/walk combinations being a really good way to train your body to run faster, longer, etc. In the past I thought stopping to walk meant you were failing, so I let that fear hold me back. Last week I started my run/walk training, and I can already feel/see/measure a difference in how far I go in the same amount of walking time I have allotted daily! I am running for longer periods already, and I actually ran to the store with the dog over the weekend, cutting my usual walking time in half. I alternate every other day with the run/walk and the brisk walk I have been enjoying for a few years. I feel really liberated. For most of my life I have let what other people would think hold me back. I really just don’t care anymore and it feels amazing! Ally 212/154/140

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since the pool closed for the season on Labor Day (waaahhhhh) I was feeling at loose ends. I was still walking, but felt like I wanted to get more out of that time. I have never been a runner, yet I always wanted to. For various reasons, I let my body hold me back. I was too heavy, I couldn’t catch my breath, my feet hurt… I had all the excuses. I ran across an article on runner’s world website about jog/walk combinations being a really good way to train your body to run faster, longer, etc. In the past I thought stopping to walk meant you were failing, so I let that fear hold me back. Last week I started my run/walk training, and I can already feel/see/measure a difference in how far I go in the same amount of walking time I have allotted daily! I am running for longer periods already, and I actually ran to the store with the dog over the weekend, cutting my usual walking time in half. I alternate every other day with the run/walk and the brisk walk I have been enjoying for a few years. I feel really liberated. For most of my life I have let what other people would think hold me back. I really just don’t care anymore and it feels amazing! Ally 212/154/140

WTG Ally! Runner’s World has some good information for beginner runners. Beverly – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Last week I started my run/walk training, and I can already feel/see/measure a difference in how far I go in the same amount of walking time I have allotted daily! I am running for longer periods already, and I actually ran to the store with the dog over the weekend, cutting my usual walking time in half. I alternate every other day with the run/walk and the brisk walk I have been enjoying for a few years. I feel really liberated. For most of my life I have let what other people would think hold me back. I really just don’t care anymore and it feels amazing!

Woohoo! That’s great! I’m so jealous. I can’t wait until I can start jogging. — PL (320/291/170) (First mini-goal: 299 Reached! 08/26/04) (Second mini-goal: 279) — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Good for you! That’s how I felt when I started running last year. Runner’s World is an outstanding resource. Also, the folks at rec.running are a great bunch. Jenn

Response:

Last week I started my run/walk training, and I can already feel/see/measure a difference in how far I go in the same amount of walking time I have allotted daily!

I have been trying that too, and it feels really great The level of energy has nothing to do with plain walking! It’s actually rather walk/sprint, the recovery period while walking allows for really picking up speed while running. I have used my cardiometer for that. Usually, I walk in the 130bpm range, and when doing interval I will try to stay in the 140-145 range. As soon as it drop bellow that, I start to sprint to get into the higher range, and then resume walking. It works pretty well while walking in the city too, as I can fit the sprints while dodging cars

Response:

Woohoo! That’s great! I’m so jealous. I can’t wait until I can start jogging. — PL (320/291/170) (First mini-goal: 299 Reached! 08/26/04) (Second mini-goal: 279)

You’ll get there. Your body will let you know when it’s time. For me, I just got to a point where I felt like I *had* to run. I started jogging during walks. DH and I would take 2-3 mile walks with the dog and eventually I started jogging the last 1/4 mile, then the last 1/2 mile. I ran my first 5K by accident because he (DH) and I were supposed to walk it (the fun walk part) but he pulled out at the last minute. I got caught up in the enthusiasm of the event and ran the first mile and then ran/walked the rest. It’s definitely something for you to look forward to when you’re ready. Jenn

Response:

That sounds like a sensible way to start. It’s difficult for me to imagine that my body will ever be fit enough to run. — PL (320/291/170) (First mini-goal: 299 Reached! 08/26/04) (Second mini-goal: 279) — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Since the pool closed for the season on Labor Day (waaahhhhh) I was feeling at loose ends. I was still walking, but felt like I wanted to get more out of that time. I have never been a runner, yet I always wanted to. For various reasons, I let my body hold me back. I was too heavy, I couldn’t catch my breath, my feet hurt… I had all the excuses. I ran across an article on runner’s world website about jog/walk combinations being a really good way to train your body to run faster, longer, etc. In the past I thought stopping to walk meant you were failing, so I let that fear hold me back. Last week I started my run/walk training, and I can already feel/see/measure a difference in how far I go in the same amount of walking time I have allotted daily! I am running for longer periods already, and I actually ran to the store with the dog over the weekend, cutting my usual walking time in half. I alternate every other day with the run/walk and the brisk walk I have been enjoying for a few years. I feel really liberated. For most of my life I have let what other people would think hold me back. I really just don’t care anymore and it feels amazing! Ally 212/154/140

Excellent, Ally! That was how I began running, and for a long time I kept up the alternate run/walk thing. It was around 6 months before I pushed through the "I want to stop now" barrier and ran a whole mile without any walking (but then I still weighed over 200 at that point). Now I can look back on that day and smile, but it was a big deal at the time! Chris 262/137/ (135-145)

Response:

You’ll get there. Your body will let you know when it’s time.

Exactly! I was perfectly happy walking. I had never seen a runner that looked like they were having a good time. It wasn’t in my plans. And one night a song started on my iPod and I HAD TO RUN! Believe me, I looked happy

Response:

You’ll get there. Your body will let you know when it’s time. For me, I just got to a point where I felt like I *had* to run. I started jogging during walks. DH and I would take 2-3 mile walks with the dog and eventually I started jogging the last 1/4 mile, then the last 1/2 mile. I ran my first 5K by accident because he (DH) and I were supposed to walk it (the fun walk part) but he pulled out at the last minute. I got caught up in the enthusiasm of the event and ran the first mile and then ran/walked the rest. It’s definitely something for you to look forward to when you’re ready. That sounds like a sensible way to start. It’s difficult for me to imagine that my body will ever be fit enough to run.

You may be surprised. If you’d asked me 6 or 7 years ago if I’d ever be able to run, I’d have laughed (or maybe cried). At the time I’d had a knee injury, and being so heavy aggravated it and kept it from healing. I could not walk 100 yards without debilitating pain, so I was basically not moving much. When I got out of bed in the morning every joint in my body was stiff and achy. I feel 20 years younger now . I actually credit this about 80% to beginning my exercise program at the gym 5 years ago; only about 20% of the credit goes to the weight loss the last two years. I wouldn’t be running without the weight loss, I expect, but my knees were fixed before that as a result of the lifting. Chris 262/137/ (135-145)

Response:

Since the pool closed for the season on Labor Day (waaahhhhh) I was feeling at loose ends. I was still walking, but felt like I wanted to get more out of that time. I have never been a runner, yet I always wanted to. I feel really liberated. For most of my life I have let what other people would think hold me back. I really just don’t care anymore and it feels amazing!

Yay Ally!! I don’t run often but it’s always a blast when I do. Enjoy the freedom

Response:

You may be surprised. If you’d asked me 6 or 7 years ago if I’d ever be able to run, I’d have laughed (or maybe cried). At the time I’d had a knee injury, and being so heavy aggravated it and kept it from healing. I could not walk 100 yards without debilitating pain, so I was basically not moving much. When I got out of bed in the morning every joint in my body was stiff and achy. I feel 20 years younger now . I actually credit this about 80% to beginning my exercise program at the gym 5 years ago; only about 20% of the credit goes to the weight loss the last two years. I wouldn’t be running without the weight loss, I expect, but my knees were fixed before that as a result of the lifting.

One more reason for me to get my butt in a gym. — PL (320/291/170) (First mini-goal: 299 Reached! 08/26/04) (Second mini-goal: 279) — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

You’ll get there. Your body will let you know when it’s time. Exactly! I was perfectly happy walking. I had never seen a runner that looked like they were having a good time. It wasn’t in my plans. And one night a song started on my iPod and I HAD TO RUN! Believe me, I looked happy
~~Was it a Springsteen song? Jenn~~

Response:

Today was my power workout and a new personal best Jenn

Hey, Jenn, congratulations janice

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’ll get there. Your body will let you know when it’s time. For me, I just got to a point where I felt like I *had* to run. I started jogging during walks. DH and I would take 2-3 mile walks with the dog and eventually I started jogging the last 1/4 mile, then the last 1/2 mile. I ran my first 5K by accident because he (DH) and I were supposed to walk it (the fun walk part) but he pulled out at the last minute. I got caught up in the enthusiasm of the event and ran the first mile and then ran/walked the rest. It’s definitely something for you to look forward to when you’re ready. That sounds like a sensible way to start. It’s difficult for me to imagine that my body will ever be fit enough to run. You may be surprised. If you’d asked me 6 or 7 years ago if I’d ever be able to run, I’d have laughed (or maybe cried).

Same here. Even when I started my weight loss in Jan 2003, if someone had said I would be running in 5K races 6 months later I would have just laughed at them. There’s a lot of things I never expected I would be doing. If anyone had said I’d be bench pressing 115 by now…well, you know the rest. Today was my power workout and a new personal best Jenn

Response:

I feel really liberated. For most of my life I have let what other people would think hold me back. I really just don’t care anymore and it feels amazing!

yeah, I’ve been thinking that it’d be a good idea to start walking & light jogging again. I’ve done a lot of cycling this year but nothing beats being in good jogging shape. Mentally, I’m still 50lbs overweight, so I think I can’t jog easily, but those 50lbs are GONE and I’m within spitting distance of the weight I used to jog at in high school, so I need to start rebuilding my leg muscles and just start pounding the pavement. I haven’t wind-sprinted in like 15 years or something Heywood 44"/36"/34"

Response:

Today was my power workout and a new personal best

Congrats! — PL (320/291/170) (First mini-goal: 299 Reached! 08/26/04) (Second mini-goal: 279) — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

And one night a song started on my iPod and I HAD TO RUN! Believe me, I looked happy
~~I somehow missed the Springsteen thing while we were living in Germany, but I love good running songs. Which would you suggest? (I got You Shook Me All Night Long because of Dally~~

Response:

Today was my power workout and a new personal best Jenn

WTG Jenn! Beverly

Response:

Thanks to you and everyone else. You’re the one that’s been motivating me. I wanna be you when I decide to grow up Jenn surprisingly DOMS free this week

A belated congrats on your workout!!! — — Martha 182.5/166/140 www.bastmagazine.com Barry hits 700!!!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’ll get there. Your body will let you know when it’s time. Exactly! I was perfectly happy walking. I had never seen a runner that looked like they were having a good time. Should I be grinning from ear to ear and clicking my heels when I’m running? I love running. I’m currently training for my 5th marathon, running around 60 miles per week with a weekly long run in the 18 to 22 mile range. I especially like the long runs. There’s a certain feeling I get during a long and/or hard run that is very difficult to explain, but it is definitely a happy feeling. If you saw me running you probably would think, "Well there goes another runner not having a very good time." However, that would be your perception based on how you think you would feel. You should be proud of your real, measurable accomplishments. I also get a "happy feeling" from running, and, I get a very "unhappy feeling" when I am unable to run for an extended period of time. It is a real, objective, addiction. A couple of 30 minutes runs per week completely satisfy it though.

Yep. You’re hooked. No a bad addiction to have though. I haven’t missed a scheduled run for nearly a year. I run six days a week. My daily schedule is not *if* I will run but *when* I will run. It’s not about fitting my run in somewhere during the day, it’s about fitting the rest of my day around the run. Sometimes I try to work my other life into it. For example, running home from my son’s open house at his high school, or runing to the park to meet my family for a picnic, or running to the video store to drop off rental tapes. I’d run to get groceries, but I like traveling light. Phil M. — "Learn from the mistakes of others. You can’t live long enough to make them all yourself."

Max speed endurance

admin — Wed, 25 Feb 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I’ve never really known how fast I can run so have tried a few runs on a treadmill at the gym. My aim was to see what speed I can run a mile at. After a couple of attempts, I realise that I can do a mile (1.6km) at the max speed of the treadmill, i.e. 16kph, but can’t run much further than that at that speed. So I’ve upped the distance a bit and managed 2km at that speed so far. So my question is, is increasing the distance at a constant speed a useful form of training if, say, I want to eventually be able to run 5km at 16kph, or would I be better off pursuing some other method? I’m also doing longer around 10 miles or so. Paul

Response:

I’ve never really known how fast I can run so have tried a few runs on a treadmill at the gym. My aim was to see what speed I can run a mile at. After a couple of attempts, I realise that I can do a mile (1.6km) at the max speed of the treadmill, i.e. 16kph, but can’t run much further than that at that speed. So I’ve upped the distance a bit and managed 2km at that speed so far. So my question is, is increasing the distance at a constant speed a useful form of training if, say, I want to eventually be able to run 5km at 16kph, or would I be better off pursuing some other method? I’m also doing longer around 10 miles or so. Paul

Paul, stop jabbering. You’re making the Brits on rec.running look bad. Establish precisely what you’re trying to say, then say it in one grammatically correct post of less than forty words. Many thanks.

Response:

I’ve never really known how fast I can run so have tried a few runs on a treadmill at the gym. My aim was to see what speed I can run a mile at. After a couple of attempts, I realise that I can do a mile (1.6km) at the max speed of the treadmill, i.e. 16kph, but can’t run much further than that at that speed. So I’ve upped the distance a bit and managed 2km at that speed so far. So my question is, is increasing the distance at a constant speed a useful form of training if, say, I want to eventually be able to run 5km at 16kph, or would I be better off pursuing some other method? I’m also doing longer around 10 miles or so. Establish precisely what you’re trying to say, then say it in one grammatically correct post of less than forty words.

Didn’t think it was so complicated… I can run 2km at 16kph. I want to be able to run 5km at 16kph. Is attempting to increase my distance each time I run, while maintaining the same speed, a good way to reach that goal? There you go, 38 words. Paul

Response:

I can run 2km at 16kph. I want to be able to run 5km at 16kph. Is attempting to increase my distance each time I run, while maintaining the same speed, a good way to reach that goal? There you go, 38 words.

Such effort merits a serious reply… It’s one way, and it’ll probably work, but it isn’t the best way. 5k isn’t far but it does rather test your ability to run anaerobically. To this end you need to develop the ability to feel comfortable (and this is relative) near your anaerobic limit. Strangely enough, the best way to achieve this is to spend some considerable time training beyond this limit. You’ll find there are 10,000 different training plans that will achieve your goal. Google ‘5K training plans’ or wait until Donovan picks up your question. However, I did promise some advice so here it comes… Day 1 Run 2k Day 2 Sprint 400m on track x 6 with three minute rest between reps Day 3 Run 1k Day 4 Rest Day 5 Run 3k Day 6 Sprint 400m on track x 6 with three minute rest between reps Day 7 Run 2k Day 8 Rest Day 9 Run 4k Day 10 Rest Day 11 Run 3k Day 12 Sprint 400m on track x 6 with three minute rest between reps Day 13 Run 2k Day 14 Rest Day 15 Run 3k Day 16 Sprint 400m on track x 6 with three minute rest between reps Day 17 Run 2k Day 18 Rest Day 19 Run 5k Day 20 Rest Day 21 Run 4k Day 22 Sprint 400m on track x 8 with three minute rest between reps Day 23 Run 2k Day 24 Rest Day 25 Run 6k Day 27 Rest Day 28 Run 5k Day 29 Sprint 400m on track x 8 with three minute rest between reps Day 30 Run 2k Day 31 Rest Day 32 Sprint 400m on track x 4 with three minute rest between reps Day 33 Run 5k time trial. Total 46k road/grass, 17k track. The ONLY runs you time will be your track sprints and your 5k time trial. Warm up and cool down THOROUGHLY before your track sessions. You should sprint HARD during these sessions. Your final 5k time will be sub 20 minutes. Have fun.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can run 2km at 16kph. I want to be able to run 5km at 16kph. Is attempting to increase my distance each time I run, while maintaining the same speed, a good way to reach that goal? It’s one way, and it’ll probably work, but it isn’t the best way. 5k isn’t far but it does rather test your ability to run anaerobically. To this end you need to develop the ability to feel comfortable (and this is relative) near your anaerobic limit. Strangely enough, the best way to achieve this is to spend some considerable time training beyond this limit. You’ll find there are 10,000 different training plans that will achieve your goal. Google ‘5K training plans’ or wait until Donovan picks up your question. However, I did promise some advice so here it comes… Day 1 Run 2k Day 2 Sprint 400m on track x 6 with three minute rest between reps [snip] Day 32 Sprint 400m on track x 4 with three minute rest between reps Day 33 Run 5k time trial. The ONLY runs you time will be your track sprints and your 5k time trial. Warm up and cool down THOROUGHLY before your track sessions. You should sprint HARD during these sessions. Your final 5k time will be sub 20 minutes.

When you say "Run 2k", what sort of pace would I aim for? As fast as I can, or some other effort level? Now I just need to find a track… Have fun.

Thanks! Paul

Response:

When you say "Run 2k", what sort of pace would I aim for? As fast as I can, or some other effort level?

I think (certainly hope) he means that the other runs are supposed to be fairly comfortable. Now I just need to find a track…

Or just measure out a 400m stretch (if you can’t measure one out, estimate it) Since the rests are 3 minutes long, you should have plenty of time to jog back to the "starting line" of each rep. Doing so should take you between 2 and 2.5 min — they’re supposed to be rests. Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

When you say "Run 2k", what sort of pace would I aim for? As fast as I can, or some other effort level? I think (certainly hope) he means that the other runs are supposed to be fairly comfortable.

The recovery run the day after your track sessions should always be a steady jog, i.e. a pace at which you could maintain a conversation. For the others, I’d push as hard as you feel. If you’re feeling strong, work hard. If you feel ‘tender’, take it easy. Or just measure out a 400m stretch (if you can’t measure one out, estimate it)

No. Find a track. It’s more focussed and it’s accurate. With any luck you’ll find others doing interval work (that’s what you’re doing) who’ll be happy to offer advice. Since the rests are 3 minutes long, you should have plenty of time to jog back to the "starting line" of each rep. Doing so should take you between 2 and 2.5 min — they’re supposed to be rests.

Agreed, but not too much of a rest. The aim should be to assist lactic dispersal NOT to recover completely. I’m trying to build a degree of lactic tolerance within the bounds of common sense for a newbie runner. The nice thing about this trackwork is that in the fifth and sixth session he’ll cover 3200m MUCH faster than his ‘time trial’ pace and around 2500-3000m in his recovery jogs. He’ll probably spend around 34-36 minutes on his feet covering over 6k, most of that time being spent with lactic acid whooshing round his leggies. I’m guessing a 6 min/mile 5k won’t feel too hard after that. Funnily enough, this is almost exactly how I started running. Concentrate on maintaining speed through regular interval work and the distance will take care of itself. As I said somewhere else, I ran some spectacular road, track and cross country races – up to 10 miles – off 35 mpw, but at least half of those miles were track based (and I didn’t count the recovery jogs) and bloody hard work.

Response:

[snip] No. Find a track. It’s more focussed and it’s accurate. With any luck you’ll find others doing interval work (that’s what you’re doing) who’ll be happy to offer advice.

[snip] The nice thing about this trackwork is that in the fifth and sixth session he’ll cover 3200m MUCH faster than his ‘time trial’ pace and around 2500-3000m in his recovery jogs. He’ll probably spend around 34-36 minutes on his feet covering over 6k, most of that time being spent with lactic acid whooshing round his leggies. I’m guessing a 6 min/mile 5k won’t feel too hard after that.

Advice appreciated. Thanks. Paul

Response:

A 5K is not very "anaerobic" at all. It is an aerobic event, most of the time should be spent building the aerobic system first and then adding some lactate threshold work. Paul, I would recommend starting with running at an easy pace (conversation pace) several times a week for several weeks before doing anything hard. Run 5x/wk for at least 30min at a time. Come back after 6 weeks and I’ll share more.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can run 2km at 16kph. I want to be able to run 5km at 16kph. Is attempting to increase my distance each time I run, while maintaining the same speed, a good way to reach that goal? There you go, 38 words. Such effort merits a serious reply… It’s one way, and it’ll probably work, but it isn’t the best way. 5k isn’t far but it does rather test your ability to run anaerobically. To this end you need to develop the ability to feel comfortable (and this is relative) near your anaerobic limit. Strangely enough, the best way to achieve this is to spend some considerable time training beyond this limit. You’ll find there are 10,000 different training plans that will achieve your goal. Google ‘5K training plans’ or wait until Donovan picks up your question. However, I did promise some advice so here it comes… Day 1 Run 2k Day 2 Sprint 400m on track x 6 with three minute rest between reps Day 3 Run 1k Day 4 Rest Day 5 Run 3k Day 6 Sprint 400m on track x 6 with three minute rest between reps Day 7 Run 2k Day 8 Rest Day 9 Run 4k Day 10 Rest Day 11 Run 3k Day 12 Sprint 400m on track x 6 with three minute rest between reps Day 13 Run 2k Day 14 Rest Day 15 Run 3k Day 16 Sprint 400m on track x 6 with three minute rest between reps Day 17 Run 2k Day 18 Rest Day 19 Run 5k Day 20 Rest Day 21 Run 4k Day 22 Sprint 400m on track x 8 with three minute rest between reps Day 23 Run 2k Day 24 Rest Day 25 Run 6k Day 27 Rest Day 28 Run 5k Day 29 Sprint 400m on track x 8 with three minute rest between reps Day 30 Run 2k Day 31 Rest Day 32 Sprint 400m on track x 4 with three minute rest between reps Day 33 Run 5k time trial. Total 46k road/grass, 17k track. The ONLY runs you time will be your track sprints and your 5k time trial. Warm up and cool down THOROUGHLY before your track sessions. You should sprint HARD during these sessions. Your final 5k time will be sub 20 minutes. Have fun.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] No. Find a track. It’s more focussed and it’s accurate. With any luck you’ll find others doing interval work (that’s what you’re doing) who’ll be happy to offer advice. [snip] The nice thing about this trackwork is that in the fifth and sixth session he’ll cover 3200m MUCH faster than his ‘time trial’ pace and around 2500-3000m in his recovery jogs. He’ll probably spend around 34-36 minutes on his feet covering over 6k, most of that time being spent with lactic acid whooshing round his leggies. I’m guessing a 6 min/mile 5k won’t feel too hard after that. Advice appreciated. Thanks. Paul

Paul, based on what you have been doing, this seems like moving into this realm awfully fast. the 5K is an aerobic event dammit!

Response:

Paul, based on what you have been doing, this seems like moving into this realm awfully fast.

Piffle. Based on his statement that he’s fit enough to sustain a 16 kph pace for 2k, he’s fit enough for that programme. He didn’t ask for a programme to introduce him to a lifetimes running, he asked for a plan to get to 5k at 16 kph. That’ll do it. the 5K is an aerobic event dammit!

Sure. *Everything* is aerobic to the rec.runners. Go google for a table displaying the relative aerobic/anaerobic components of the 5k. Or better still, go run one fast. Then come back here and tell me it’s an aerobic event. For the few of you that have any inclination to actually *run*, you’ll have to become familiar with speed. If you’ve mental discipline for it, I’d suggest fartlek, but it’s damn hard to push yourself as hard as you should when it’s only you and your god watching. OTOH, track work is blindly straightforward. You have the track, your watch and your schedule. You do the work, it hurts, but you get faster. I’ve seen a slightly modified version of the programme work many times, although it’s fair to point out that it’s also broken a few spirits too. It’s a pure guess of course, but I’ll happily bet than anyone who could respond to my original post in the manner Paul chose has the personality to achieve his goals via the most direct route.

Response:

Come back after 6 weeks and I’ll share more.

Ha! In six weeks he’ll have completed his aim and be windsurfing in the Med, whilst you, my little plodder, are still churning out your pointless miles.

Response:

Try running on a road. A treadmill is only a simulation, and a poor one at that.

Response:

Paul, based on what you have been doing, this seems like moving into this realm awfully fast. the 5K is an aerobic event dammit!

I don’t think I said what I’ve been doing. Just got back from a lunchtime run: 11.5 miles at 07:55/mi. I started running at the beginning of January and am running about 3 times a week and playing squash twice a week. My aim was just to get fit and lose some weight. I’ve lost about 17 pounds and gone from 24.5% fat to 17% (according to a tanita body fat monitor scale). Paul

Response:

Try running on a road. A treadmill is only a simulation, and a poor one at that.

Bullshit. — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Paul, based on what you have been doing, this seems like moving into this realm awfully fast. Piffle. Based on his statement that he’s fit enough to sustain a 16 kph pace for 2k, he’s fit enough for that programme. He didn’t ask for a programme to introduce him to a lifetimes running, he asked for a plan to get to 5k at 16 kph. That’ll do it. the 5K is an aerobic event dammit! Sure. *Everything* is aerobic to the rec.runners. Go google for a table displaying the relative aerobic/anaerobic components of the 5k. Or better still, go run one fast. Then come back here and tell me it’s an aerobic event.

Ingrid Kristiansen was a former record holder for the 5k and yet was a lousy sprinter. http://ingrid-kristiansen.com/holisticfitness/running.htm Sure it’s fast, but it’s all about endurance. Tell me something — who is a likely to be a better 5k runner, an elite marathoner or an elite 400m runner ? Could Michael Johnson beat Martin Lel in a 5k ? Of course the 5k is fast, but it’s still largely about endurance. For the few of you that have any inclination to actually *run*, you’ll have to become familiar with speed.

Even then, you need to be able to not just sprint, but actually sustain a fast pace. I’ve found 1200m repeats very effective — the distance is short enough that one can do them at a good pace (faster than 5k pace), but long enough that you can’t just sprint through them. I found that the end result of doing 400m repeats was that I could beat other runners in short interval sessions, only to have the same runners kick my butt in races. If you’ve mental discipline for it, I’d suggest fartlek, but it’s damn hard to push yourself as hard as you should when it’s only you and your god watching.

IMO fartlek is better done in groups or as an "entry level" speed workout that one could use in weeks leading up to serious speed training (to me that means "track work" or hill work with a training group) OTOH, track work is blindly straightforward. You have the track, your watch and your schedule. You do the work, it hurts, but you get faster.

You get faster at something anyway. Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

Ingrid Kristiansen was a former record holder for the 5k and yet was a lousy sprinter.

You’d like me to list the 5k record holders who are good sprinters? And what would that prove? That we can both make lists? Sure it’s fast, but it’s all about endurance. Tell me something — who is a likely to be a better 5k runner, an elite marathoner or an elite 400m runner ? Could Michael Johnson beat Martin Lel in a 5k ?

You’re being disingenuous. We both know it’s *easier* to encompass 5k and marathon running than it is to encompass 400m and 5k running. That wasn’t the point. The OP asked for the ‘best’ way to reach 5k at 16 kph, and noted that he was already running up to ten miles. I provided a minimum mileage, track based, answer. It isn’t the only answer but, in this instance, I believe it to be the most straightforward way for the OP to achieve his goal. Even then, you need to be able to not just sprint, but actually sustain a fast pace. I’ve found 1200m repeats very effective — the distance is short enough that one can do them at a good pace (faster than 5k pace), but long enough that you can’t just sprint through them. I found that the end result of doing 400m repeats was that I could beat other runners in short interval sessions, only to have the same runners kick my butt in races.

We’re all different, but 400m repeats are a good place for a newbie to start To suggest that someone only able to sustain a fast pace for 2000m should commence at any other level would be ridiculous. IMO fartlek is better done in groups or as an "entry level" speed workout that one could use in weeks leading up to serious speed training (to me that means "track work" or hill work with a training group)

Donny, Donny, Donny, you keep telling me what you believe, rather than what may be useful to the OP. Frankly, I consider much of your advice to be a little too theoretical and research based, rather than founded on personal experience or observation. Would you be insulted if I used the phrase ‘book learning’? Give yourself ten years of national-standard running and you’ll develop a more rounded approach to running theory and practice. As I said elsewhere, Paul will achieve by attitude and effort what you would seek to diss through theory and statistics. Give me an athlete with a clear ambition over a head full of theories any day.

Response:

Ingrid Kristiansen was a former record holder for the 5k and yet was a lousy sprinter. You’d like me to list the 5k record holders who are good sprinters? And what would that prove? That we can both make lists? Sure it’s fast, but it’s all about endurance. Tell me something — who is a likely to be a better 5k runner, an elite marathoner or an elite 400m runner ? Could Michael Johnson beat Martin Lel in a 5k ? You’re being disingenuous. We both know it’s *easier* to encompass 5k and marathon running than it is to encompass 400m and 5k running.

You argued that the running 5k was "anaerobic". That was the point I took issue with. It is "anaerobic" in terms of technical definitions (above LT in intensity), but not in terms of training requirements. That wasn’t the point. The OP asked for the ‘best’ way to reach 5k at 16 kph, and noted that he was already running up to ten miles. I provided a minimum mileage, track based, answer.

FWIW, I didn’t think your schedule was all that bad, and it wasn’t your schedule I was disputing. Even then, you need to be able to not just sprint, but actually sustain a fast pace. I’ve found 1200m repeats very effective — the distance is short enough that one can do them at a good pace (faster than 5k pace), but long enough that you can’t just sprint through them. I found that the end result of doing 400m repeats was that I could beat other runners in short interval sessions, only to have the same runners kick my butt in races. We’re all different, but 400m repeats are a good place for a newbie to start

There’s nothing wrong with starting with 400m repeats, but … To suggest that someone only able to sustain a fast pace for 2000m should commence at any other level would be ridiculous.

By this argument, someone who runs 5k at 8:00 pace should start by doing 100m sprints, since they can only sustain a "fast" pace for about 400m. So I think it’s a silly argument. However, I agree that shorter intervals make a good starting point. Longer intervals take getting used to and beginners are likely to "bomb out" in long interval sessions unless they start with shorter sessions. For example, I prefer to do a few weeks of 800s before doing 1200s. IMO fartlek is better done in groups or as an "entry level" speed workout that one could use in weeks leading up to serious speed training (to me that means "track work" or hill work with a training group) Donny, Donny, Donny, you keep telling me what you believe, rather than what may be useful to the OP.

I was commenting on your post, not giving advice to the OP. Frankly, I consider much of your advice to be a little too theoretical and research based, rather than founded on personal experience or observation.

In this case, I call "bullshit". Not only do I *understand* it, through *experience*, I get a refresher on it every week. I’m not drawing on distant memories of great workouts in the distant past. I’ve done my track workout in the last week. Have you ? I’ve done fartlek running before, in groups and alone. I’ve done a lot of track training, it’s been my primary source of interval work, so I’ve probably done more track work than some of the more experienced runners here. You yourself said track work is "more precise". I’d argue that track work not only gives you precision, it gives you *structure*. When you go to the track with a watch, the track is simply a vast, barren, merciless landscape, and the watch is a brutal taskmaster. You can’t fool the track or your watch. That’s what makes it so demanding — the transparency of it all. Track workouts are just brutal. You can possibly make fartlek as demanding physiologically, but it doesn’t come close mentally. If you don’t understand this, go outside and do some track work instead of trolling usenet. Would you be insulted if I used the phrase ‘book learning’?

Why would I be insulted by such an obvious falsehood ? I’m out there doing the miles, doing my track work, doing my tempos, doing my races week after week, while you’re drawing from distant memories from back in "the good old days" when you felt more like a winner and less like a has-been. Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

You argued that the running 5k was "anaerobic". That was the point I took issue with.

No. That was the point with which you took issue. A Yankee grad student that can’t write. Now there’s a surprise. FWIW, I didn’t think your schedule was all that bad, and it wasn’t your schedule I was disputing.

And this is meant to make me happy? Now I’m convinced my schedule is wrong. So I think it’s a silly argument.

And boy, do you know all about silly arguments… I was commenting on your post, not giving advice to the OP.

Well don’t bother, for I have neither the time nor the inclination to point out the many technical and logical faults in your inane and self-congratulatory musings. In this case, I call "bullshit".

Of course. It’s your standard response when you run out of words which, regrettably, isn’t that often. Not only do I *understand* it, through *experience*, I get a refresher on it every week. I’m not drawing on distant memories of great workouts in the distant past.

Therefore, when offering advice, experience carries no value, currency is all. Donny, you are verging on the offensive. May I suggest an apology would be appropriate here? I’ve done my track workout in the last week. Have you ?

Why, yes. I have a race this weekend. I’ve done fartlek running before, in groups and alone. I’ve done a lot of track training, it’s been my primary source of interval work, so I’ve probably done more track work than some of the more experienced runners here. You yourself said track work is "more precise". I’d argue that track work not only gives you precision, it gives you *structure*. When you go to the track with a watch, the track is simply a vast, barren, merciless landscape, and the watch is a brutal taskmaster. You can’t fool the track or your watch. That’s what makes it so demanding — the transparency of it all. Track workouts are just brutal. You can possibly make fartlek as demanding physiologically, but it doesn’t come close mentally.

Donny, you’re telling me what I’ve already written. If you don’t understand this, go outside and do some track work instead of trolling usenet.

Surely even you can tell the difference between a post and a troll? I made my aims in this thread perfectly clear in my second post to Paul. I’m out there doing the miles, doing my track work, doing my tempos, doing my races week after week, while you’re drawing from distant memories from back in "the good old days" when you felt more like a winner and less like a has-been.

Oh dear! Perhaps Wobbot was right, you are all hot air, testosterone and a strong right arm. A ‘has-been’ I most certainly am, but may I point out two things? Firstly, at least for some portion of my running career I was ‘there’, which you most certainly will never be. And secondly, based on your posted run times, this ‘has been’ could still comfortably whip your ill-mannered ass over 5k, 10k and 10 miles. Frankly, if I ever find myself in New York, I would consider it a pleasure to provide you with a lesson in both manners and running. For free, of course.

Response:

You argued that the running 5k was "anaerobic". That was the point I took issue with. No. That was the point with which you took issue. A Yankee grad student that can’t write. Now there’s a surprise.

Sure, your writing is indeed better than mine. I never argued otherwise. FWIW, I didn’t think your schedule was all that bad, and it wasn’t your schedule I was disputing. And this is meant to make me happy? Now I’m convinced my schedule is wrong.

It’s a *fantastic* schedule. Also, let me remind you not to let Tom Wheeler paint your house. So I think it’s a silly argument. And boy, do you know all about silly arguments…

I’m learning from an expert even as I type … I was commenting on your post, not giving advice to the OP. Well don’t bother, for I have neither the time nor the inclination to point out the many technical and logical faults in your inane and self-congratulatory musings.

Fair enough — I understand that your time is an extremely scarce and valuable resource. Not only do I *understand* it, through *experience*, I get a refresher on it every week. I’m not drawing on distant memories of great workouts in the distant past. Therefore, when offering advice, experience carries no value, currency is all.

They are both important. Donny, you are verging on the offensive. May I suggest an apology would be appropriate here?

I’m sorry “verging on the offensive”, or challenging your experience. I try to do better than this. Let me try to say it more politely — I have experience and currency. I am not an elite athlete, but my experience is very relevant to newbies who are pushing towards the 6:00 range. In the other post, you repeatedly criticise me as being some sort of armchair-runner, which is a mischaracterisation that borders on dishonest. Sure, I read books. I try to understand the theories. Theories and more importantly, research results, are interesting, and they give us a framework for explaining our observations, but I understand that you don’t win races by having a better theory. Scientific curiosity drives my interest in theories and lab results, but I can assure you that such interest does not in any way inhibit my desire to run a great race, and do the required training. I’ve done my track workout in the last week. Have you ? Why, yes. I have a race this weekend.

Great. I’m out there doing the miles, doing my track work, doing my tempos, doing my races week after week, while you’re drawing from distant memories from back in "the good old days" when you felt more like a winner and less like a has-been. Oh dear! Perhaps Wobbot was right,

I see your humorous side is showing. A ‘has-been’ I most certainly am, but may I point out two things? Firstly, at least for some portion of my running career I was ‘there’, which you most certainly will never be. And secondly, based on your posted run times, this ‘has been’ could still comfortably whip your ill-mannered ass over 5k, 10k and 10 miles.

Neither your ability nor your unique experience places you in much of a position to trash mine. Ability is a gift, not a virtue. When a newbie who looks like he’s going to be the next Roger Bannister posts here, I have little doubt that your unique insights will be more relevant than mine (assuming of course that you’re being honest about your ability/achievements). Until that happens, and I’m sure we can agree that it may not happen terribly soon, perhaps we can both offer interesting and relevant perspectives. Frankly, if I ever find myself in New York, I would consider it a pleasure to provide you with a lesson in both manners and running.

I’d be happy take you up on the running lesson. A lesson in manners ? Yes, sure. I would love to reciprocate by ensuring that you enjoy an equally enlightening experience. I could arrange for Tom Wheeler to give you grammar lessons, how does that sound ? Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

Fair enough — I understand that your time is an extremely scarce and valuable resource.

I’m more than happy – when the mood takes me – to offer what I can to those prepared to listen with an open mind. I find it tiresome in the extreme to waste my time talking to someone who has nothing to learn, and who has an answer for everything. Donny, you will never rise above the herd if you insist on being right all of the time. One intelligent probing question is worth a thousand trivial answers. Concentrate on discovering what you don’t know rather than expounding upon what you do. They are both important.

Then why suggest otherwise? I’m sorry “verging on the offensive”, or challenging your experience. I try to do better than this.

You misunderstand. Challenge all you want. All I was asking was that you manage to do so with a degree of politeness. Scientific curiosity drives my interest in theories and lab results, but I can assure you that such interest does not in any way inhibit my desire to run a great race, and do the required training.

I’m wondering if this is true. I think sometimes you let your ‘knowledge’ define your athletic expectations. In short, you may have been a better and more adventurous runner had you ‘known’ less. Does that make sense? Oh dear! Perhaps Wobbot was right, I see your humorous side is showing.

I wasn’t making a joke. He may have you sussed. Neither your ability nor your unique experience places you in much of a position to trash mine.

Au contraire. They place me in *exactly* that position. I can spot an emperor without any clothes with ease. Ability is a gift, not a virtue. When a newbie who looks like he’s going to be the next Roger Bannister posts here, I have little doubt that your unique insights will be more relevant than mine (assuming of course that you’re being honest about your ability/achievements).

If/when that happens, he/she won’t be looking to me for advice. They’ll have the balls to find things out for themselves. Until that happens, and I’m sure we can agree that it may not happen terribly soon, perhaps we can both offer interesting and relevant perspectives.

Fine words, Donny. I somehow doubt that either of us – for very different reasons – will live up to these idealistic goals. I’d be happy take you up on the running lesson.

Oh, it wasn’t a friendly offer. I’d simply find out what race you were in and grind you into the ground. I’ll even do my ‘you’re a pathetic loser’ dance as you stumble over the finish line. Sometimes I enjoy running for its own sake, and sometimes I enjoy it for the misery I can bring to the lives of those less talented…

Response:

Sometimes I enjoy running for its own sake, and sometimes I enjoy it for the misery I can bring to the lives of those less talented…

Speaking as one of those less talented… Well, I’ve located a track about 5 miles from home. Now got to figure out the logistics of getting there before work. I just have one more question about the training schedule. Is there anything special about the 2-5k recovery runs? Would swapping them with easy 6-10 mile ones do any harm, or must they be so short? Cheers, Paul

Response:

Sure. *Everything* is aerobic to the rec.runners. Go google for a table displaying the relative aerobic/anaerobic components of the 5k. Or better still, go run one fast. Then come back here and tell me it’s an aerobic event.

You may find this hard to believe Paul, but the 5k *is* an aerobic event. I believe your idea of what aerobic means could be misunderstood. It would be impossible to run anaerobically more than a very short time. Even distance such as the mile and 800m have major aerobic significance. cheers, — David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org

Response:

DONOVAN SAID: Scientific curiosity drives my interest in theories and lab results, but I can assure you that such interest does not in any way inhibit my desire to run a great race, and do the required training.

ROGER REPLIED: I’m wondering if this is true. I think sometimes you let your ‘knowledge’ define your athletic expectations. In short, you may have been a better and more adventurous runner had you ‘known’ less. Does that make sense?

TRANSLATION: Donovan: "Think and run better." Roger: "Think less, run more." MY COMMENT: This exchange just about sums up why BOTH Roger and Donovan make valuable contributors to this NG. Without their posts, would we really keep coming back here so often?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – DONOVAN SAID: Scientific curiosity drives my interest in theories and lab results, but I can assure you that such interest does not in any way inhibit my desire to run a great race, and do the required training. ROGER REPLIED: I’m wondering if this is true. I think sometimes you let your ‘knowledge’ define your athletic expectations. In short, you may have been a better and more adventurous runner had you ‘known’ less. Does that make sense? TRANSLATION: Donovan: "Think and run better." Roger: "Think less, run more."

It’s a translation. Donovan is the ultimate pragmatist that needs to track and justify every step with some applied science. He is by nature and job a type A scientist. I think Roger is sugesting one can over think, over science and maybe stifle progress because an action is bypassed that does not fit into a dogmatic plan. There are many way to skin the cat and what makes this so much fun. — Doug Freese "Caveat Lector"

Response:

Stopping the meds

admin — Tue, 06 Jan 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Dave

5 year old FINISHES first 5k

admin — Sun, 09 Nov 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Can you please post the name of the 5K race and your son’s name so we can check the results online? Oooo.., what a nasty suspicious mind you have.

With folks like Wille Wanker and Roger Dr. No_real_name to name two hanging out here, we have reason to be suspiciuos. — Doug Freese "Caveat Lector"

Response:

Yes my son and I entered our first ever 5k race and my son a 5 year old finished 7th in the 14 and under catagory. The 6 racers who finished ahead of him were four 14 year old and two 13 year old boys. My son beat all the female entries in the race in the 14 and under catagory, he beat the best female time by 2.35. My sons official time was 27.32.8 with a 8.52 per mile pace. The six boys who beat my son were 8 and 9 years older than he is which gives him that much time to improve his time. The next finisher after my son was a 15 year old who came in .7 tenths of a second behind my son. I have the video. I have to say that the entire crowd was very pleasing to be around, runners seem to be a very fine bunch of people. Just one very proud and happy DAD!!

I realise that this might be OT in terms of distance, but it’s an interesting article nonetheless (about Children and Marathon Running) http://www.aims-association.org/Articles/Children&Marathoning.pdf Edward — The reading group’s reading group: http://www.bookgroup.org.uk

Response:

I realise that this might be OT in terms of distance, but it’s an interesting article nonetheless (about Children and Marathon Running) http://www.aims-association.org/Articles/Children&Marathoning.pdf Edward

Actually, thanks for posting this. The pdf will reappear the next time some parent posts about having a child run an inappropriate distance. In my mind, 5K is the maximum anyone under 10-12 should be running. Lyndon "Speed Kills…It kills those that don’t have it!" –US Olympic Track Coach Brooks Johnson

Response:

Yes my son and I entered our first ever 5k race and my son a 5 year old finished 7th in the 14 and under catagory.

Congratulations. At the other end of the scale, a 59 year old completed 7 marathons in 7 days on 7 continents… a few months after having heart by-pass surgery.

Response:

I realise that this might be OT in terms of distance, but it’s an interesting article nonetheless (about Children and Marathon Running) http://www.aims-association.org/Articles/Children&Marathoning.pdf Edward Actually, thanks for posting this. The pdf will reappear the next time some parent posts about having a child run an inappropriate distance. In my mind, 5K is the maximum anyone under 10-12 should be running.

I generally agree but not always. I have seen several kids that get a boost of esteem from running longer races because they want to. It isn’t the best, say from a developmental perspective in terms of creating the best runners, but some kids are just trying to find something in which they are decent. And building up to running in a very slow and deliberate manner often prevents any injury. I would rather see a 10 year-old that wants to run a 10k than watch the same kid play pee wee tackle football or hours of Playstation – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lyndon "Speed Kills…It kills those that don’t have it!" –US Olympic Track Coach Brooks Johnson

Response:

Can you please post the name of the 5K race and your son’s name so we can check the results online?

Oooo.., what a nasty suspicious mind you have. Tim

Response:

I counted 6 "my son"’s. Did I miss any? ….just kidding….(pardon the pun)… Congrats Dad…

Response:

Will someone please call Child Proctective Services on this putz already? I stand behind my statements about mandatory testing for parents, before they get to take the baby home.

Response:

Thanks, I am glad to be here.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I counted 6 "my son"’s. Did I miss any? ….just kidding….(pardon the pun)… Congrats Dad…

Response:

I’m glad to hear he did so well but not surprised after reading some of your previous posts. Congratulations and best wishes to both of you. — Lewis. http://tinyurl.com/r3r6

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes my son and I entered our first ever 5k race and my son a 5 year old finished 7th in the 14 and under catagory. The 6 racers who finished ahead of him were four 14 year old and two 13 year old boys. My son beat all the female entries in the race in the 14 and under catagory, he beat the best female time by 2.35. My sons official time was 27.32.8 with a 8.52 per mile pace. The six boys who beat my son were 8 and 9 years older than he is which gives him that much time to improve his time. The next finisher after my son was a 15 year old who came in .7 tenths of a second behind my son. I have the video. I have to say that the entire crowd was very pleasing to be around, runners seem to be a very fine bunch of people. Just one very proud and happy DAD!!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes my son and I entered our first ever 5k race and my son a 5 year old finished 7th in the 14 and under catagory. The 6 racers who finished ahead of him were four 14 year old and two 13 year old boys. My son beat all the female entries in the race in the 14 and under catagory, he beat the best female time by 2.35. My sons official time was 27.32.8 with a 8.52 per mile pace. The six boys who beat my son were 8 and 9 years older than he is which gives him that much time to improve his time. The next finisher after my son was a 15 year old who came in .7 tenths of a second behind my son. I have the video. I have to say that the entire crowd was very pleasing to be around, runners seem to be a very fine bunch of people. Just one very proud and happy DAD!!

Can you please post the name of the 5K race and your son’s name so we can check the results online? –Harold Buck "I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ." -Homer J. Simpson

Response:

Yes my son and I entered our first ever 5k race and my son a 5 year old finished 7th in the 14 and under catagory. The 6 racers who finished ahead of him were four 14 year old and two 13 year old boys. My son beat all the female entries in the race in the 14 and under catagory, he beat the best female time by 2.35. My sons official time was 27.32.8 with a 8.52 per mile pace. The six boys who beat my son were 8 and 9 years older than he is which gives him that much time to improve his time. The next finisher after my son was a 15 year old who came in .7 tenths of a second behind my son. I have the video. I have to say that the entire crowd was very pleasing to be around, runners seem to be a very fine bunch of people. Just one very proud and happy DAD!!

Response:

Water Anyone?

admin — Mon, 13 Oct 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I was just curious to know how much water you folks drink. I usually drink around 12 to 15 glasses a day. It was really warm out today and I went for a nice long and hilly 6-mile walk, so I drank closer to 17 glasses, including milk. My walk: I went from my house up to Nob Hill down through Chinatown and Northbeach, up to Coit Tower and down to the Embarcadero. It’s Fleet Week, so there are lots of cool Navy ships docked. It was around 80 degrees and not a cloud in the sky. I nice day to be off work! : D I haven’t lost weight; I gained two pounds from my biz trip to Chicago this week. But, I did get a compliment on my arms. A co-worker told me she could see my muscle definition. Cool. Martha

Response:

You drink 16-24 cups of water a day???? I bet you spend the other 1/2 of your day in the bathroom!! I am impressed!!! — Email me at: perpleglow(AT)comcast.net – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just curious to know how much water you folks drink. I usually drink around 12 to 15 glasses a day. anywhere from 8 to 12 16-oz glasses a day.

Response:

I drink about 8-14 8 oz glasses a day…. — Email me at: perpleglow(AT)comcast.net

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just curious to know how much water you folks drink. I usually drink around 12 to 15 glasses a day. It was really warm out today and I went for a nice long and hilly 6-mile walk, so I drank closer to 17 glasses, including milk. My walk: I went from my house up to Nob Hill down through Chinatown and Northbeach, up to Coit Tower and down to the Embarcadero. It’s Fleet Week, so there are lots of cool Navy ships docked. It was around 80 degrees and not a cloud in the sky. I nice day to be off work! : D I haven’t lost weight; I gained two pounds from my biz trip to Chicago this week. But, I did get a compliment on my arms. A co-worker told me she could see my muscle definition. Cool. Martha

Response:

I was just curious to know how much water you folks drink. I usually drink around 12 to 15 glasses a day.

anywhere from 8 to 12 16-oz glasses a day.

Response:

I drink 3-6 glasses per day, depending on my activity. That’s 32-72 ounces. I think it is necessary to drink enough, but I don’t see the need to force it. I can tell, especially during cold weather, if I’m drinking enough if my lips aren’t dry and my hands aren’t chapped. When I start noticing dryness, I up my water a bit. Melissa

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just curious to know how much water you folks drink. I usually drink around 12 to 15 glasses a day. It was really warm out today and I went for a nice long and hilly 6-mile walk, so I drank closer to 17 glasses, including milk. My walk: I went from my house up to Nob Hill down through Chinatown and Northbeach, up to Coit Tower and down to the Embarcadero. It’s Fleet Week, so there are lots of cool Navy ships docked. It was around 80 degrees and not a cloud in the sky. I nice day to be off work! : D I haven’t lost weight; I gained two pounds from my biz trip to Chicago this week. But, I did get a compliment on my arms. A co-worker told me she could see my muscle definition. Cool. Martha

Response:

Susan Jones-Anderson writes: I end up each day with 6 liters of water and then maybe 3 liters in unsweet iced tea. More recently since I quit smoking.

You must visit the bathroom about every 1-2 hours, then. — Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Response:

You drink 16-24 cups of water a day???? I bet you spend the other 1/2 of your day in the bathroom!! I am impressed!!!

mheh. yeah, i guess i do spend a fair amount of time peeing…but at work i combine my visits to the loo with my trips to refill my glass (the water cooler is right next to the ladies’), so the timing ends up working out pretty well – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just curious to know how much water you folks drink. I usually drink around 12 to 15 glasses a day. anywhere from 8 to 12 16-oz glasses a day.

Response:

MH writes: I was just curious to know how much water you folks drink. I usually drink around 12 to 15 glasses a day.

About 1 litre per day on normal days. In very hot weather, about 1 litre per hour. It was really warm out today and I went for a nice long and hilly 6-mile walk, so I drank closer to 17 glasses, including milk.

Almost six litres? How many times did you stop to urinate? My walk: I went from my house up to Nob Hill down through Chinatown and Northbeach, up to Coit Tower and down to the Embarcadero

What distance does this represent, and what were the temperature and humidity? — Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Response:

I end up each day with 6 liters of water and then maybe 3 liters in unsweet iced tea. More recently since I quit smoking. Susan 260/219/160 — 1month 5days 17:03hours of being smoke-free, 1,436 cigs not smoked, $265.66 saved, 4day 23:40hours of my life saved

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just curious to know how much water you folks drink. I usually drink around 12 to 15 glasses a day. It was really warm out today and I went for a nice long and hilly 6-mile walk, so I drank closer to 17 glasses, including milk. My walk: I went from my house up to Nob Hill down through Chinatown and Northbeach, up to Coit Tower and down to the Embarcadero. It’s Fleet Week, so there are lots of cool Navy ships docked. It was around 80 degrees and not a cloud in the sky. I nice day to be off work! : D I haven’t lost weight; I gained two pounds from my biz trip to Chicago this week. But, I did get a compliment on my arms. A co-worker told me she could see my muscle definition. Cool. Martha

Response:

MH writes: About once an hour.

Must be inconvenient, especially if you’re somewhere with no convenient toilets. About 6 miles, mostly up and down steep hills, except for the last 2.5 miles.

A good walk. It’s San Francisco, so almost zero humidity.

Are you sure you don’t mean almost 100% humidity? I think I said in my original post it was around 80 degrees.

Right now? Isn’t that awfully warm for San Francisco at any time of year? — Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Response:

I love San Fran…. last time I checked, they had alot of humidity… since they are right off of the coast. — Email me at: perpleglow(AT)comcast.net

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – MH writes: I was just curious to know how much water you folks drink. I usually drink around 12 to 15 glasses a day. About 1 litre per day on normal days. In very hot weather, about 1 litre per hour. It was really warm out today and I went for a nice long and hilly 6-mile walk, so I drank closer to 17 glasses, including milk. Almost six litres? How many times did you stop to urinate? About once an hour. My walk: I went from my house up to Nob Hill down through Chinatown and Northbeach, up to Coit Tower and down to the Embarcadero What distance does this represent, and what were the temperature and humidity? About 6 miles, mostly up and down steep hills, except for the last 2.5 miles. It’s San Francisco, so almost zero humidity. I think I said in my original post it was around 80 degrees. Martha — Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Response:

MH writes: I was just curious to know how much water you folks drink. I usually drink around 12 to 15 glasses a day. About 1 litre per day on normal days. In very hot weather, about 1 litre per hour. It was really warm out today and I went for a nice long and hilly 6-mile walk, so I drank closer to 17 glasses, including milk. Almost six litres? How many times did you stop to urinate?

About once an hour. My walk: I went from my house up to Nob Hill down through Chinatown and Northbeach, up to Coit Tower and down to the Embarcadero What distance does this represent, and what were the temperature and humidity?

About 6 miles, mostly up and down steep hills, except for the last 2.5 miles. It’s San Francisco, so almost zero humidity. I think I said in my original post it was around 80 degrees. Martha – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Response:

I was just curious to know how much water you folks drink. I usually drink around 12 to 15 glasses a day.

I live in the heat. It was 80 degrees at 7:30am this morning as I was driving to work. There was fog in the air this morning. Because of the heat, if I’m out in it, I drink ALOT. Typical day for me: 5am – 32oz water for workout. 9am – 12 oz diet coke 10am – 32oz water Noon – 2 glasses water w/ lunch 2pm – 12oz diet coke (optional these days) 3pm – 32 oz water 6pm – 32 oz water w/ dinner **If I do an evening workout – add in another 32oz water. 8pm – 32 oz water (Optional). ANd in the heat of the summer – evening bike rides or exercise I’ll fill up a 96oz hydration pack for the journel. Hydration is really essential for me.

Response:

I’m counting all fluids. Water, milk, crystal light and coffee: I almost never drink soda. Total it all up its probably about 1 to 1.5 gallons for me (128 – 194 oz). I work out or at least walk every day. If I do a tough cardio workout, I will easily weat off 5 – 8 pounds in an hour: thats all gotts be replenished. I know crystal light has a small amount of calories, but as far as I’m concerned, it’s flavored water. AL – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just curious to know how much water you folks drink. I usually drink around 12 to 15 glasses a day. It was really warm out today and I went for a nice long and hilly 6-mile walk, so I drank closer to 17 glasses, including milk. My walk: I went from my house up to Nob Hill down through Chinatown and Northbeach, up to Coit Tower and down to the Embarcadero. It’s Fleet Week, so there are lots of cool Navy ships docked. It was around 80 degrees and not a cloud in the sky. I nice day to be off work! : D I haven’t lost weight; I gained two pounds from my biz trip to Chicago this week. But, I did get a compliment on my arms. A co-worker told me she could see my muscle definition. Cool. Martha

Response:

It’s San Francisco, so almost zero humidity. I think I said in my original post it was around 80 degrees. Martha

how is that possible? san fran is on the pacific ocean!

Response:

I was just curious to know how much water you folks drink. I usually drink around 12 to 15 glasses a day.

Between 2 and 3 quarts of non-caloric beverages, none of which is plain water. — "There’s a seeker born every minute."

Response:

Jayjay writes: ANd in the heat of the summer – evening bike rides or exercise I’ll fill up a 96oz hydration pack for the journel. Hydration is really essential for me.

Are you diabetic? — Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just curious to know how much water you folks drink. I usually drink around 12 to 15 glasses a day. It was really warm out today and I went for a nice long and hilly 6-mile walk, so I drank closer to 17 glasses, including milk. My walk: I went from my house up to Nob Hill down through Chinatown and Northbeach, up to Coit Tower and down to the Embarcadero. It’s Fleet Week, so there are lots of cool Navy ships docked. It was around 80 degrees and not a cloud in the sky. I nice day to be off work! : D I haven’t lost weight; I gained two pounds from my biz trip to Chicago this week. But, I did get a compliment on my arms. A co-worker told me she could see my muscle definition. Cool. Martha

It varies. When I am on the road travelling, I probably do not drink enough. I have been genuinely thirsty driving home from New Orleans or Lafayette but there are huge stretches of swamp with no exits for bathrooms. When I am at the house, I probably drink at least a gallon a day. I start off with 2 16 oz coffee and then turn to water. I have two quart bottles that I refill several times during the day. Mainly, though, it is boredom. When I work at the house, I will get up and peruse the kitchen. The water is a nice alternative to triscuits. When I play tennis, I drink about 2 litres an hour – one of water and one of gatorade because we play in the evenings before dinner and the calories keep me from keeling over on the tennis courts out of hunger. I do the sports drink because it is easier on my stomach than fruit juices while playing and is half the sugar of a soft drink. Besides tennis, I rarely drink anything throughout the day other than water and coffee. In the evenings, I will enjoy dry white wine or low carb beer most nights. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Jayjay writes: ANd in the heat of the summer – evening bike rides or exercise I’ll fill up a 96oz hydration pack for the journel. Hydration is really essential for me. Are you diabetic?

Nope, just don’t like to be dehydrated. I’ve had one bad case of heat/sun over exposure sickness (not necessarily heat stroke, but I was sicker than hell for a few days). THat was due to working too hard and not hydrating myself well enough. Therefore I’m always cautious. Living in Florida with the heat and humidity here, its very easy to suffer heatstroke and die just by doing yardwork in the afternoon.

Response:

Jayjay writes: Nope, just don’t like to be dehydrated.

You’re drinking far more than you need to just to avoid dehydration, unless it’s always 116

Galloway Running school worth it?

admin — Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In September there is a one day running school taught by Jeff Galloway in NYC. Has anyone attended a similar event? Was it worthwhile? I didn’t go any school, and I ran every step of my first marathon. I was slow as a snail at 5:05:12, but a 5:05:12 achieved by running is completely in a different class to a 5:05:12 achieved by walking and running. Oh god, do we need to go here? Slow is slow, fast is fast, and nothing else matters. Tell that to the judges who disqualify you for taking runnig steps in a speedwalking race. Or for doing a front crawl in a breaststroke race, etc. Some of us simply don’t view running as a freestyle event.

Funny, I must have missed that part of the USATF regulations regarding running. Wheels – no go. Outside assistance – no go. Excessive wind – no record. Springs in your shoes – bad. Walking? Just fine. If you’re going to play one-upsmanship games I think we have a word for those: “sports”.

No. The one-upsmanship is claiming that a 5:05 marathon with no walking steps makes you somehow better than a 5:04 marathon with walking mixed in. Take that to its logical conclusion: A 5:05 walking marathon is better than, say, a 3:30 wherein the runner walked through aid stations. Ok, whatever. A 5:00+ marathon is averaging about eleven and a half minutes per mile. At that speed, the line between running and walking is pretty blurry. In fact, at 6′3", I can _not_ run an 11:30 pace. I can walk a 13:00 pace. I can kind of jog a 10:00 pace. But there’s an awful middle ground in there where I can’t find a pace that works. So, if I were to try to run a 5:00 marathon, I’d probably have to do it by alternating running and walking. In fact, if you look at energy expenditure vs pace, the graph goes something like this: | + — | + — | –___ + — effort | +++– ++ = walking | +++ – = running pace This was gruesomly demonstrated to me during a a physiology study in which I participated, in which we had to run and walk at the same paces. Walking at a ~10 minute mile pace was gruesome. Much harder than running at an ~8 minute mile pace. Running at ~4.5mph was clunky and ugly. Sports is about doing the best you can within the rules of the game, and the rules of running races permit walking. with running, at least use the one objective measuring stick we have: time. What is subjective about walking steps versus running steps? When a speedwalker is disqualified for running, that’s pretty darn objective: fewer than two feet were on the ground at some point!

Yes, because speedwalking explicitly excludes running. But there’ve been some very decent marathon running performances in which a participant took a few walking steps, or tripped, or had to stop to tie a shoelace, or totally and utterly bonked 100 feet before the finish line and had to walk the rest of the way. Or take Sian Welch and Wendy Ingraham’s _amazing_ finish in the 1997 Ironman World Championships, where both of the lead women had to _crawl_ across the finish line. You tell Ingraham her victor’s piddling because she didn’t run the entire way. It’s when you allow arbitrary variation in style that objectivity starts to be eroded. You can take all the people who ran every step and rank them according to time. But in a mixture of walkers and runners, it’s no longer clear cut. There is the walk-runner who walked 60% of the distance, then there is the one who walked 10%. Time is the only measuring stick when you have some purpose other than the sport, like delivering a message between two army generals. When the sport itself matters, there are all kinds of additional rules!

Yes, but the sport of running doesn’t explicitly ban walking in the way racewalking bans running. Doing some walking is perfectly legal within the context of running. And if you do too much of it, it’s going to show up in your time. That’s _why_ you can’t run in racewalking – it gives you a huge advantage over your competitors. But extensive walking in most road races only slows you down. (Let’s not devolve into an argument about whether or not walking helps you go faster overall… if you can walk 60% of a marathon and finish in under 4 hours, you’re either deliberately taking it easy, or should enter some serious racewalking competitions). If you want to brag, brag that you completed the damn thing, or brag that you were faster than X% of the field. Or just be happy that you’re crazy enough to train for and run the damn thing, and keep it at that. -Dave — work: dga – at – lcs.mit.edu me: angio – at – pobox.com MIT Laboratory for Computer Science http://www.angio.net/ (note that my reply-to address is vaguely despammed…) bulk emailers: I do not accept unsolicited email. Do not mail me.

Response:

You are too uptight. Relax. HFP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In September there is a one day running school taught by Jeff Galloway in NYC. Has anyone attended a similar event? Was it worthwhile? I didn’t go any school, and I ran every step of my first marathon. I was slow as a snail at 5:05:12, but a 5:05:12 achieved by running is completely in a different class to a 5:05:12 achieved by walking and running. Oh god, do we need to go here? Slow is slow, fast is fast, and nothing else matters. Tell that to the judges who disqualify you for taking runnig steps in a speedwalking race. Or for doing a front crawl in a breaststroke race, etc. Some of us simply don’t view running as a freestyle event. If you’re going to play one-upsmanship games I think we have a word for those: “sports”. with running, at least use the one objective measuring stick we have: time. What is subjective about walking steps versus running steps? When a speedwalker is disqualified for running, that’s pretty darn objective: fewer than two feet were on the ground at some point! It’s when you allow arbitrary variation in style that objectivity starts to be eroded. You can take all the people who ran every step and rank them according to time. But in a mixture of walkers and runners, it’s no longer clear cut. There is the walk-runner who walked 60% of the distance, then there is the one who walked 10%. Time is the only measuring stick when you have some purpose other than the sport, like delivering a message between two army generals. When the sport itself matters, there are all kinds of additional rules!

Response:

In September there is a one day running school taught by Jeff Galloway in NYC. Has anyone attended a similar event? Was it worthwhile? I didn’t go any school, and I ran every step of my first marathon. I was slow as a snail at 5:05:12, but a 5:05:12 achieved by running is completely in a different class to a 5:05:12 achieved by walking and running. Oh god, do we need to go here? Slow is slow, fast is fast, and nothing else matters.

Tell that to the judges who disqualify you for taking runnig steps in a speedwalking race. Or for doing a front crawl in a breaststroke race, etc. Some of us simply don’t view running as a freestyle event. If you’re going to play one-upsmanship games

I think we have a word for those: “sports”. with running, at least use the one objective measuring stick we have: time.

What is subjective about walking steps versus running steps? When a speedwalker is disqualified for running, that’s pretty darn objective: fewer than two feet were on the ground at some point! It’s when you allow arbitrary variation in style that objectivity starts to be eroded. You can take all the people who ran every step and rank them according to time. But in a mixture of walkers and runners, it’s no longer clear cut. There is the walk-runner who walked 60% of the distance, then there is the one who walked 10%. Time is the only measuring stick when you have some purpose other than the sport, like delivering a message between two army generals. When the sport itself matters, there are all kinds of additional rules!

Response:

You’re right but so many insist on the Big Dick contest. For some running every step of 5 hour marathon carries mare macho than running a 4:45 with carefully spaced walking breaks. I find this run at all costs attitude almost child like.

Shoes for a marathon

admin — Fri, 11 Jul 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I am about to startraining for my first marathon. Can anybody reccomend a good pair of running shoes for marathon running? THANKS

Response:

Idiot. Viagra Bill

Response:

The only pair of shoes you should consider for a marathon is a pair you have been training in. Two points here. First, NEVER run a race, especially a long one, in a new pair of shoes, even if they are the same brand and make you have used before! Never. Second, except for some experienced runners looking for top times, you should not try to switch types of shoes for a marathon. So now the question is what shoes should you be wearing when you are training. That is also an easy answer. The ones that are right for YOU. You don’t want to run in the shoes that are right for me or Ted or Mary. Everyone’s feet, weight and running style are different and that calls for different shoes. That is one reason there are so many to choose from. All the brands have good shoes and not so good shoes. There is no one "best" shoe. Things like your weight, and where you run are important in the choice of shoes, but more important is your foot and running style. The best way of finding the right KIND of shoe is to stop at a real running store and find someone who knows running shoes and running feet. You are not likely to find this kind of person at your local Super Shoe store or even the shoe department at your local Super Sports store. They can then offer you choices from several brands and you can see what works best for you. Don’t chose a shoe because this or that brand or style works for them. Doing so is like taking their prescription medication. I doubt if my prescription for kidney stones would help someone’s infection. — Joseph E. Meehan 26 + 6 = 1 It’s Irish Math

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am about to startraining for my first marathon. Can anybody reccomend a good pair of running shoes for marathon running? THANKS

Response:

Josephs points are all excellant ones. I’ll add that the best ones are not always the most expensive ones. And just because your shoe is showing a certain wear pattern or your foot conforms to the "classic" style does not mean that you should be in a shoe to fit that style. I.E. it is entirely possible to have a high arch and still be an overpronator. The better shoe stores will watch you walk and run in a the shoes you are trying on as well as look at your foot structure and wear patterns. ~Matt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The only pair of shoes you should consider for a marathon is a pair you have been training in. Two points here. First, NEVER run a race, especially a long one, in a new pair of shoes, even if they are the same brand and make you have used before! Never. Second, except for some experienced runners looking for top times, you should not try to switch types of shoes for a marathon. So now the question is what shoes should you be wearing when you are training. That is also an easy answer. The ones that are right for YOU. You don’t want to run in the shoes that are right for me or Ted or Mary. Everyone’s feet, weight and running style are different and that calls for different shoes. That is one reason there are so many to choose from. All the brands have good shoes and not so good shoes. There is no one "best" shoe. Things like your weight, and where you run are important in the choice of shoes, but more important is your foot and running style. The best way of finding the right KIND of shoe is to stop at a real running store and find someone who knows running shoes and running feet. You are not likely to find this kind of person at your local Super Shoe store or even the shoe department at your local Super Sports store. They can then offer you choices from several brands and you can see what works best for you. Don’t chose a shoe because this or that brand or style works for them. Doing so is like taking their prescription medication. I doubt if my prescription for kidney stones would help someone’s infection. — Joseph E. Meehan 26 + 6 = 1 It’s Irish Math I am about to startraining for my first marathon. Can anybody reccomend a good pair of running shoes for marathon running? THANKS

Response:

I am about to startraining for my first marathon. Can anybody reccomend a good pair of running shoes for marathon running?

Yes, it’s true that everyone is different and that what works for me won’t necessarily work for you–you may have mechanical issues I don’t have, etc. But having said that, I have found New Balance 763, 764 and now 765 to be good, basic, well-cushioned marathon training and racing shoes. The 764s can still be found marked down (last year’s model) at some stores, but they are not as immediately comfortable as the newer 765 in my opinion. Others have their own brand preferences, this is just mine. Go try on some shoes at a running store, talk to people there who actually run regularly, and buy something a little more expensive than is comfortable but that fits GREAT when you put them on and run a bit in them. Then continue conducting your own experiment of one. You’ll find some good shoes for YOU by trial and error, hopefully not too much error. Good luck. chris

Response:

All the brands have good shoes and not so good shoes.

Except Nike, they ALL suck. Real viagra Bill

Response:

Typical !

admin — Mon, 16 Jun 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Perhaps a monicle would be a better option … but I would probably blink and lose it in my soup knowing me !!!

Mmmmmmmm! Monocle soup — my favorite . . . and it’s even vegetarian

Response:

Thanks for the offer Kay , but I’ve decided that it could be too much of a nuisance to my hectic social life …… i.e. bungee jumping , white water rafting , gymnastics , marathon running … watching TV ( nos 1-4 are lies I’m afraid!) Perhaps a monicle would be a better option … but I would probably blink and lose it in my soup knowing me !!! Keep Smiling, Luv Mazza xxx

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you go for the peg leg I know where you can get one cheep. I’ll widdle it for you. heh Thanx for the laugh. Kay May Angels Watch Over My onc suggested I went for my eyes testing , as I seem to be suffering with I felt really ‘under pressure’ to get the questions right ! They were going to check with ‘Medicare’ to find out when I’d last had an eye test… I said,"I’ll save you a phone call.. it was 1979 .. in England !" Well, the GOOD NEWS is ……. I passed , sort of ….except that one eye is good for close up , and the other for distance !!!!! Trust me ????? Anyway , I dont really need glasses , but the optician did suggest getting a Keep smiling, Luv Mazza xxx

Response:

Tim, thanks for a BIG laugh this morning – I needed one… Ann *humph* parity error indeed…wonder how many caught that??

Response:

Tim, thanks for a BIG laugh this morning – I needed one… Ann *humph* parity error indeed…wonder how many caught that??

The way I originally heard it, it was seven, but seven and eight both have the same (odd) parity! Someone hadn’t done their homework. Tim

Response:

<< Anyway , I dont really need glasses , but the optician did suggest getting a Keep smiling, Luv Mazza xxx Thanks for the giggle

Response:

<< "Aye Jim lad!" "Pieces of nine! Pieces of nine!" Oh damn, I’ve got a parity error.

Response:

If you go for the peg leg I know where you can get one cheep. I’ll widdle it for you. heh Thanx for the laugh. Kay May Angels Watch Over

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My onc suggested I went for my eyes testing , as I seem to be suffering with I felt really ‘under pressure’ to get the questions right ! They were going to check with ‘Medicare’ to find out when I’d last had an eye test… I said,"I’ll save you a phone call.. it was 1979 .. in England !" Well, the GOOD NEWS is ……. I passed , sort of ….except that one eye is good for close up , and the other for distance !!!!! Trust me ????? Anyway , I dont really need glasses , but the optician did suggest getting a Keep smiling, Luv Mazza xxx

Response:

Hmmph! Yes, I’m thinking I might audition for Peter Pan, but its out of vogue at the moment …. Lion King is all the rage ….. but which animal can I play ? .. oh I know …. the cross eyed optomist !! Mazza xxx – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Aye Jim lad!" "Pieces of nine! Pieces of nine!" Oh damn, I’ve got a parity error.

Response:

"Aye Jim lad!" "Pieces of nine! Pieces of nine!" Oh damn, I’ve got a parity error.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My onc suggested I went for my eyes testing , as I seem to be suffering with Well, the GOOD NEWS is ……. I passed , sort of ….except that one eye is good for close up , and the other for distance !!!!! Trust me ????? Anyway , I dont really need glasses , but the optician did suggest getting a Keep smiling, Luv Mazza xxx

Response:

My onc suggested I went for my eyes testing , as I seem to be suffering with I felt really ‘under pressure’ to get the questions right ! They were going to check with ‘Medicare’ to find out when I’d last had an eye test… I said,"I’ll save you a phone call.. it was 1979 .. in England !" Well, the GOOD NEWS is ……. I passed , sort of ….except that one eye is good for close up , and the other for distance !!!!! Trust me ????? Anyway , I dont really need glasses , but the optician did suggest getting a Keep smiling, Luv Mazza xxx

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My onc suggested I went for my eyes testing , as I seem to be suffering with I felt really ‘under pressure’ to get the questions right ! They were going to check with ‘Medicare’ to find out when I’d last had an eye test… I said,"I’ll save you a phone call.. it was 1979 .. in England !" Well, the GOOD NEWS is ……. I passed , sort of ….except that one eye is good for close up , and the other for distance !!!!! Trust me ????? Anyway , I dont really need glasses , but the optician did suggest getting a Keep smiling, Luv Mazza xxx

Response:

Doing some Marathon Psyching on Sunday Morning at Rock & Roll

admin — Wed, 28 May 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I’ll be at the starting area on Sunday morning, giving some mental psyching and pre-race inductions for reducing anxiety during the first few miles and post hypnotic suggestions for the last 10 miles. I’ll be along the course at the beginning, mile 3, mile 6 and at mile 20 and a few other places. At some of those locations where you see me, I won’t be there; you’ll have created the illusion. RELAX SHOULDERS. BREATHE. EYES on the HORIZON. RELAX JAW In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer – rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975 Mindful Running: http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/

Response:

I’ll be at the starting area on Sunday morning, giving some mental psyching and pre-race inductions for

…those of you who are weak, and need a mental boost. Bill R. OO

Response:

What do you know about marathon running, Bill? Ozzie does great work. I’ve used many of his messages here for inspiration. I guess you’d actually have to run a marathon to know what we’re talking about. Stef Boston Marathon 2003 sub 3:40 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll be at the starting area on Sunday morning, giving some mental psyching and pre-race inductions for …those of you who are weak, and need a mental boost. Bill R. OO

Response:

What do you know about marathon running, Bill?

Be serious MsBoobJob. I AM a running god/legend. Ozzie does great work.

Oh? He’s "done you" then? I’ve used many of his messages here for inspiration. I guess you’d actually have to run a marathon to know what we’re talking about.

If you’re that "soft in the head" that after years of preparation, you need anything but your inner strength for inspiration, then you’re, well, soft in the head. sub 3:40

Gotta love this dontcha guys? How "sub 3:40" is it? Maybe 3:32, nope. Maybe 3:35, nope. Or could it be……. 3:39? YES! Give the girl a boner. Bill R. OO

Response:

Like you. You’re weak, insignificant, petty, and vulgar. There’s is life away from that computer of yours – you wouldn’t know. You surf for pornography, violate this newsgroup, and engage in constant mental flagellation. My guess is that you’re about 14 years old. It’s obvious you’ve never been around women. You degrade them and defile their being with vulgarities and obscenities. When you look at yourself in the mirror, are you proud of what you see? Just look at your rantings in this group. That penis of a signature line, how pitiful is that. You’re a disgrace. Steven. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll be at the starting area on Sunday morning, giving some mental psyching and pre-race inductions for …those of you who are weak, and need a mental boost. Bill R. OO

Response:

You’re just jealous, Bill. I bet you can’t even complete a marathon. Stef. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What do you know about marathon running, Bill? Be serious MsBoobJob. I AM a running god/legend. Ozzie does great work. Oh? He’s "done you" then? I’ve used many of his messages here for inspiration. I guess you’d actually have to run a marathon to know what we’re talking about. If you’re that "soft in the head" that after years of preparation, you need anything but your inner strength for inspiration, then you’re, well, soft in the head. sub 3:40 Gotta love this dontcha guys? How "sub 3:40" is it? Maybe 3:32, nope. Maybe 3:35, nope. Or could it be……. 3:39? YES! Give the girl a boner. Bill R. OO

Response:

You’re just jealous, Bill. I bet you can’t even complete a marathon.

Jealous of what? Your lies about running? The only exercise you get is kicking your legs in the air as a porn star. You can recite a name from the race archives, but we all know it’s not really you. Bill R. OO

Response:

Billy, give it up. Unlike you, some of us are not perfect. I won’t deny that I got into some things I’m not that proud of when I was in college. And, unlike you some of us enjoy the sport of running and want to talk about it in this forum. Stef – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re just jealous, Bill. I bet you can’t even complete a marathon. Jealous of what? Your lies about running? The only exercise you get is kicking your legs in the air as a porn star. You can recite a name from the race archives, but we all know it’s not really you. Bill R. OO

Response:

I won’t deny that I got into some things I’m not that proud of when I was in college.

So then you admit being a dirty slut? Bill R. OO

Response:

I admit to doing some things I’ve come to regret. I’ll grant you that, you took a stab in the dark and made a correct guess. It doesn’t change who I am, because I’ve moved on past it. Stef – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I won’t deny that I got into some things I’m not that proud of when I was in college. So then you admit being a dirty slut? Bill R. OO

Response:

I admit to doing some things I’ve come to regret. I’ll grant you that, you took a stab in the dark and made a correct guess. It doesn’t change who I am, because I’ve moved on past it.

LMAO! But you still didn’t answer the question. Do you admit being a dirty little slut? Answer truthfully, and I promise never to bring it up again. Bill R. OO

Response:

we are all weak and we all need a mental boost unless, maybe, our name is Andy Hass or Roger 2k or Lorne Jonathan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll be at the starting area on Sunday morning, giving some mental psyching and pre-race inductions for …those of you who are weak, and need a mental boost. Bill R. OO

Response:

Why aren’t you proud of them? It is only the dent to your self-esteem that allows The BillRogers to beat you with this particular stick. If you told yourself "Yes, I did that, and at least I’ve got a souvenir of what I looked like in my prime, and boy did I look good", your vulnerabilty on this score would evaporate instantly. I bet you are the only person bothered by your past – nobody else worth knowing would give it a second thought, apart from maybe the curiosity value. J

Billy, give it up. Unlike you, some of us are not perfect. I won’t deny that I got into some things I’m not that proud of when I was in college. And, unlike you some of us enjoy the sport of running and want to talk about it in this forum. Stef

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re just jealous, Bill. I bet you can’t even complete a marathon. Jealous of what? Your lies about running? The only exercise you get is kicking your legs in the air as a porn star. You can recite a name from the race archives, but we all know it’s not really you. Bill R. OO

Response:

what john wants john gets

Response:

we are all weak and we all need a mental boost unless, maybe, our name is Andy Hass or Roger 2k or Lorne

Those three stooges are amatuers, you need to first have a brain to be weak, those three aren’t included. I’m the only guy tough enough to not need a boost. Bill R. OO

Response:

Why aren’t you proud of them?

Because she’s a dirty slut, and she knows it John. Licking loads isn’t much to be proud of, butt of course in a miserable existence like she is leading, it just maybe the high point in her life. It is only the dent to your self-esteem that allows The BillRogers to beat you with this particular stick.

Please! I’ve got WAY more ammo if I reallt felt the need to tear down the slut further. If you told yourself "Yes, I did that, and at least I’ve got a souvenir of what I looked like in my prime, and boy did I look good",

Except she’s homely. I’ve had better looking hookers for $5. I bet you are the only person bothered by your past –

Except her husband who hides his head in shame, her kids who have to put up with taunts of "Yo mamma’s a ho" and "Boy your mom throws a good one"… Bill R. OO

Response:

Sorry – I thought YOU were her husband. My mistake. (2nd in two days. Hmm.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why aren’t you proud of them? Because she’s a dirty slut, and she knows it John. Licking loads isn’t much to be proud of, butt of course in a miserable existence like she is leading, it just maybe the high point in her life. It is only the dent to your self-esteem that allows The BillRogers to beat you with this particular stick. Please! I’ve got WAY more ammo if I reallt felt the need to tear down the slut further. If you told yourself "Yes, I did that, and at least I’ve got a souvenir of what I looked like in my prime, and boy did I look good", Except she’s homely. I’ve had better looking hookers for $5. I bet you are the only person bothered by your past – Except her husband who hides his head in shame, her kids who have to put up with taunts of "Yo mamma’s a ho" and "Boy your mom throws a good one"… Bill R. OO

Response:

In your case boosts might prove fatal J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – we are all weak and we all need a mental boost unless, maybe, our name is Andy Hass or Roger 2k or Lorne Those three stooges are amatuers, you need to first have a brain to be weak, those three aren’t included. I’m the only guy tough enough to not need a boost. Bill R. OO

Response:

how about telling us what john wants? On second thoughts … J

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – what john wants john gets

Response:

It’s not like I’m over the hill, Jonathan. I’ve had one child and I’m in my mid 20’s. They were modeling pictures – not porn. I’m not ashamed of them, it just that I’d rather move on with my life. Bill exaggerates. What he sent me, however, was porn. Stef – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why aren’t you proud of them? It is only the dent to your self-esteem that allows The BillRogers to beat you with this particular stick. If you told yourself "Yes, I did that, and at least I’ve got a souvenir of what I looked like in my prime, and boy did I look good", your vulnerabilty on this score would evaporate instantly. I bet you are the only person bothered by your past – nobody else worth knowing would give it a second thought, apart from maybe the curiosity value. J Billy, give it up. Unlike you, some of us are not perfect. I won’t deny that I got into some things I’m not that proud of when I was in college. And, unlike you some of us enjoy the sport of running and want to talk about it in this forum. Stef You’re just jealous, Bill. I bet you can’t even complete a marathon. Jealous of what? Your lies about running? The only exercise you get is kicking your legs in the air as a porn star. You can recite a name from the race archives, but we all know it’s not really you. Bill R. OO

Response: