Run Run Away

Question:

Not mean so much as overconfident in my ability.  It’s a "fun" race that has a long history in the area and I was thrilled to finish it having NEVER run a cross country in my life let alone one up & down a black diamond xc ski trail.  I live near the ski area and plan to train there regularly this spring and summer

I like your way of thinking. Since I live close to to a good uphill I don’t have to trek to the ski area in the summer and spring. I actually have hundreds of state marked trails to choose from. Too narrow because you are sharing them with cars? Yes.  Blind curves and high snowbanks aren’t the best combination.

Gotcha. Says who? You can’t share them as long as you stay out of the ski tracks? Snowmobiles are worse than cars.  Up here it’s more of a way to head from bar to bar.  I like the idea of running on the lakes – wide open and unlimited possibilities.  There’s more water here than land.

Which floor of the ark do you live. I guess a frozen lake is better than a Tmill but still a bit flat. You can use the Tmill for   elevation runs(after they get it fixed) I’ve always had a screw or two loose so this won’t be a problem.

You got all the prerequisites for an endurance trail runner.  Am I getting warm? I’m waiting for them to get un-ugly.  Today’s high was -10 with -25 wind chills.  Tomorrow we’re supposed to have -35 wind chills.  The high on Saturday is supposed to be 10 and sunny so I may venture out.

A veritable heat spell – shorts and a tank top?  We are back in the 20’s. treadmills at the place I go blew up the other night and it’s going to be a while before it’s fixed or replaced so I have to suck up and deal with the cold if I want to accomplish my training goals.

And these training goals are????? As Dot asked, let us know how they work on pure ice. I have been using them on snow covered ice which works well so far. Good luck and have fun. — Doug Freese "Caveat Lector"

Response:

I live near the ski area and plan to train there regularly this spring and summer

Is there any reason why you can’t run there now – assuming you stay out of ski tracks? Different ski areas are different, but our local etiquette is that snowshoers can use trails as long as they stay off the tracks. However, there’s been occasional horses, people, and dogs there, so it’s a little pockmarked outside the tracks, but not bad. I had a really beautiful run on our local xc ski area this evening – beautiful half moon light casting shadows through the trees. Ran 1 lap with headlight on (normal running), then ran/walked a 2nd with snowshoes and headlight off. Not another soul on the trail or in the parking area. Snowmobiles are worse than cars.  Up here it’s more of a way to head from bar to bar.  I like the idea of running on the lakes – wide open and unlimited possibilities.  There’s more water here than land.

The snow machines where I am (southcentral Alaska) love to open throttle on the wide open lakes  I tend to hide on the trails in the trees. Here’s some ideas for other devices if the screws don’t work. I got these links from another Alaskan in another running group: http://www.adn.com/outdoors/story/2666130p-2707203c.html http://skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm http://www.compasspoint-online.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Metal_… http://www.icebug.se/launch.asp I’ve used Ice Joggers on smooth ice (black ice) around here, and I think that’s the most common type used here, but I could be wrong. The carbide tips will bite into most ice, but they aren’t particularly long so if you have snow on top of ice or lumpy ice, not all the studs grab. In the past, I’ve found this type running to be nasty on the legs, so I avoid it now. Studs get used in parking lots, walking to work, etc. They might be too narrow to grip packed snow, but I’ve always been able to get by with my normal shoes for most things except ice or hard-packed snow polished by the wind. http://www.running-shoes-n-clothing.com/Surefoot-Surefoot-Ice-Joggers… I wasn’t sure if cleats would work on ice (snow covered) and I was considering Yaktrax.

I haven’t used Yaktrax either, but have seen poor reviews for them on *ice*. But I’ve seen at least one good report for running on *snow* on trail – but I don’t remember what kind of snow – although may have a tendency to break. I do have Yaktrax for emergencies in the car or whatever and did take them with me on tonight’s trail run thinking I might need some traction, but the snow was so nice, I didn’t need anything except my normal shoes (Brooks Trespass 1). I think the screws are the cheapest way to go – and perhaps the most general – if you have an old pair of shoes, which I don’t (joys of changing shoe styles). But I’d be interested in hearing how they do on black ice (which is where I usually use IceJoggers) or bare lake ice. We tend to use the strap-on devices since we use them to negotiate walking around in normal life (remove when entering buildings) and since we have them, use them for running also.   BTW, I’m a very novice runner (8 months) and I’ve never run outdoors in the winter.  Now that I know there are races all winter I’m interested in expanding my horizons.  Plus I am getting rather sick of the treadmill. You can always slide back indoors when the conditions are truly ugly.

Ditto on that! Another adventurer! I’m waiting for them to get un-ugly.  Today’s high was -10 with -25 wind chills.  Tomorrow we’re supposed to have -35 wind chills.  The high on Saturday is supposed to be 10 and sunny so I may venture out.  

The winds can get interesting at those temperatues unless you’ve got good wind gear With experience, you’ll find out what layers work under what conditions and how to keep your sports drinks from freezing – or whether it’s not worth the hassle, depending on your goals and interests. Winter can be a truly enjoyable time to run outside *after* one has the gear figured out. Enjoy your running. Dot The moon and stars were so bright tonight I just had to go stand in the middle of the starting area and watch them after I was done. — "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Response:

I’m curious about this because I need something for better traction. This fall I did a 5K cross country race at a XC ski place and a friend recommended that I get cleats if I’m going to continue this folly (steep, snow over leaves, etc.).  Of course he neglected to tell me this when he gave me the entry form and I had no clue what I was getting into at the time. A friend with a mean streak?  :)

Not mean so much as overconfident in my ability.  It’s a "fun" race that has a long history in the area and I was thrilled to finish it having NEVER run a cross country in my life let alone one up & down a black diamond xc ski trail.  I live near the ski area and plan to train there regularly this spring and summer The only safe place to run outdoors for me during the winter is on the lakes because the roads are too narrow Too narrow because you are sharing them with cars?

Yes.  Blind curves and high snowbanks aren’t the best combination. and the trails are for snowmobiles or XC skiing. Says who? You can’t share them as long as you stay out of the ski tracks?

Snowmobiles are worse than cars.  Up here it’s more of a way to head from bar to bar.  I like the idea of running on the lakes – wide open and unlimited possibilities.  There’s more water here than land. I wasn’t sure if cleats would work on ice (snow covered) and I was considering Yaktrax. I have not tried the Yaktrax. I chose the screws because they are not expensive, no straps to break which happen all too frequently, used by fellow trail friends(not the cruel type <G) that do this all the time. At worst a screw or two might come out and you have to replace them.

I’ve always had a screw or two loose so this won’t be a problem. Eventually we’re going to get back above 0 and it is getting light enough later in the day that I’d like to get back outside as soon as possible, but I don’t want to fall and break something. For a few cents try the screws in an old pair and see how they work. If you’re not happy try the Yaktrax or some other flavor of cramp on device. If you missed the web page for a visual – dial in http://www.skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm

Cool beans!  I’m headed to Ace tomorrow BTW, I’m a very novice runner (8 months) and I’ve never run outdoors in the winter.  Now that I know there are races all winter I’m interested in expanding my horizons.  Plus I am getting rather sick of the treadmill. You can always slide back indoors when the conditions are truly ugly.

I’m waiting for them to get un-ugly.  Today’s high was -10 with -25 wind chills.  Tomorrow we’re supposed to have -35 wind chills.  The high on Saturday is supposed to be 10 and sunny so I may venture out.  One of the treadmills at the place I go blew up the other night and it’s going to be a while before it’s fixed or replaced so I have to suck up and deal with the cold if I want to accomplish my training goals. Thanks for the tips! Jenn

Response:

I’m curious about this because I need something for better traction.  This fall I did a 5K cross country race at a XC ski place and a friend recommended that I get cleats if I’m going to continue this folly (steep, snow over leaves, etc.).  Of course he neglected to tell me this when he gave me the entry form and I had no clue what I was getting into at the time.

A friend with a mean streak?  :) The only safe place to run outdoors for me during the winter is on the lakes because the roads are too narrow

Too narrow because you are sharing them with cars? and the trails are for snowmobiles or XC skiing.  

Says who? You can’t share them as long as you stay out of the ski tracks? I wasn’t sure if cleats would work on ice (snow covered) and I was considering Yaktrax.  

I have not tried the Yaktrax. I chose the screws because they are not expensive, no straps to break which happen all too frequently, used by fellow trail friends(not the cruel type <G) that do this all the time. At worst a screw or two might come out and you have to replace them. Eventually we’re going to get back above 0 and it is getting light enough later in the day that I’d like to get back outside as soon as possible, but I don’t want to fall and break something.

For a few cents try the screws in an old pair and see how they work. If you’re not happy try the Yaktrax or some other flavor of cramp on device. If you missed the web page for a visual – dial in http://www.skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm BTW, I’m a very novice runner (8 months) and I’ve never run outdoors in the winter.  Now that I know there are races all winter I’m interested in expanding my horizons.  Plus I am getting rather sick of the treadmill.  

You can always slide back indoors when the conditions are truly ugly. — Doug Freese "Caveat Lector"

Response:

WHO WAS IT, THREATENED THE PRESIDENT? WHO ADVOCATED AID TO TERRORISTS? YEP, our own BILL DAVIDSON, just one day after the 9-11 attack, while the victims were still burning. "we should bomb that pathetic excuse  for a man too, or at least give his location to every terrorist group we can find, and let them take him out. Just what we need in the white house, a coked-up dopehead running the country". Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bagpipe http://groups.google.com/groups?q=pathetic+pea-brain+mrrobottow&hl=en… YO!  Homeland Security dudes: KEY PHRASES! BOMB  "WHITE HOUSE" "TERRORIST GROUP" THERE’S YER ANTISOCIAL NUT CASE, RIGHT THERE! COULD BE another John Hinckley.  Check him out! This US citizen publicly called for AID to TERRORISTS: IS HIS NAME ON YOUR LIST? Check him out! To long-suffering RMMB contributors: DO COPY AND PASTE this message.  THEN use it to REPLY anytime you have an urge to respond to the NOT-REALLY-ANNONYMOUS troll on RMMB and rec.running.  (Why, YES, Bill Davidson, the source of thousands of lowlife postings under dozens of account names, is also "TheBillRodgers" and his clones. Will Bill’s own words  amuse him as much as they amuse us?   WILL THEY AMUSE OTHERS?  Let’s find out. Let’s be sure BILL gets the attention he deserves and craves. COPY, PASTE, REPLY to our TROLL.  IT’S THAT EASY

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know where one can buy these screws on-line (preferably in the UK)?  I’ve done all my local hardware stores and searched the net for suppliers but I can’t find a supplier anywhere. In the US we have very large, about the size of a football field, home improvement centers. Two in particular that are in my area are Lowes and Home Depot. I looked and they seem to be US only Stores. If it helps your search, I used "6X3/8 hex washer head" screws. I guess you can use 1/2 inch but they looked a little too long although the web page says they are ok for normal midsole thickness. The web page forgets that screws are measured in two dimensions, length and thickness. As you might imagine these come in various thickness’.  I chose the 6’s cuz they looked like they would do the job. I would think 8’s would also work. I did two spring time trails races last year and one in the fall where screws would have been my physical and mental salvation to get through the mud.  I will henceforth carry a spare pair with the extra hardware. Fool me once….. — Doug Freese "Caveat Lector"

I’m curious about this because I need something for better traction.  This fall I did a 5K cross country race at a XC ski place and a friend recommended that I get cleats if I’m going to continue this folly (steep, snow over leaves, etc.).  Of course he neglected to tell me this when he gave me the entry form and I had no clue what I was getting into at the time. The only safe place to run outdoors for me during the winter is on the lakes because the roads are too narrow and the trails are for snowmobiles or XC skiing.  I wasn’t sure if cleats would work on ice (snow covered) and I was considering Yaktrax.  Eventually we’re going to get back above 0 and it is getting light enough later in the day that I’d like to get back outside as soon as possible, but I don’t want to fall and break something. BTW, I’m a very novice runner (8 months) and I’ve never run outdoors in the winter.  Now that I know there are races all winter I’m interested in expanding my horizons.  Plus I am getting rather sick of the treadmill.  Any advice will be helpful. Jenn

Response:

me think you homo, go pee on your leg you big sonofagun you. tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yah go goat trail your self you loser. Congrats Tommie nearly a full sentance. Maybe you should post more often when angry so we discern what the hell you talking about.  I’m almost convinced that you are in fact the biggest r.r troll and not Willie Wanker or Miss Anne Thrope.

Response:

I beg your pardon But I would say it depends on your choice of shoe – like using snowshoes Or if you’ve only got 1 in, then that’s not enough.

Actually, in most years the conditions around these parts aren’t good for snow shoeing.  Most of my snowshoe pals are driving 1-2 hours to find a snow race. Without a snow volume off road it’s on the roads and that is typically some combination of hard slippery snow and ice. If we had consistent volume conditions from year to year I would buy a pair. Oh, oh. Doug’s extending his running conditions

How true, color me flexible. Last winter my training was severely stifled by icy conditions and I barely maintained low 40’s mileage instead of mid 50’s. If was enough mileage that I still did my spring races but I had to temper my resulting times big time. I’m hoping the screws will let me run in conditions that would normally keep me locked inside. No disrespect for inside training like Tmills but discovered years ago that regardless of the visual and auditory distractions, inside exercise even for short periods of time, hummmmmm, suck! Poor choice of word but you get the picture. I’m guessing it depends on what type of shoes you’re wearing – and how much material there is in the sole.

I simply took a pair of 2080’s with high mileage on them and put in the screws for a test. If you have a power screw driver it only takes a minute or so. We got another 6+ inches last night and I’ll give them a longer ride today. I usually run on Wed nights with some school teachers but I suspect schools will be closed and we can run mid day after the roads are cleared to gather at their place.  One of the benefits of retirement, being able to move your run to any time of the day. With the extra time I’m hoping we will run 8-12 rather than 6-8. — Doug Freese "Caveat Lector"

Response:

No it’s not a post to discuss sexual relations with a goat

Oh, OK, I’ll read no further.

Response:

I beg your pardon But I would say it depends on your choice of shoe – like using snowshoes Or if you’ve only got 1 in, then that’s not enough. Actually, in most years the conditions around these parts aren’t good for snow shoeing.  Most of my snowshoe pals are driving 1-2 hours to find a snow race.

Duh, that’s how far we usually have to drive to find a trail race in summer – except for 2 local ones, and one of those is a mtn one that’s beyond anything I think I’d be able to do. And I have to drive past decent trail heads to get there. There’s one this weekend that some are driving to that’s probably 2-3 hr (1 way), depending on road conditions. I can’t handle that much time on the road when I could be running. Actually, I’m trying to plant the seeds of thought in the new snowshoe club organizers’ mind, that we have some nice trails out here in the valley also and would be a nice place to have a get together. I’m not sure if there were any snowshoe races in our parts (2 hr either side of Anchorage) before the club started last year. Fbks has always had snowshoe races, but things down here are pretty dull in the winter for races. Without a snow volume off road it’s on the roads and that is typically some combination of hard slippery snow and ice. If we had consistent volume conditions from year to year I would buy a pair. I’m hoping the screws will let me run in conditions that would normally keep me locked inside. No disrespect for inside training like Tmills but discovered years ago that regardless of the visual and auditory distractions, inside exercise even for short periods of time, hummmmmm, suck! Poor choice of word but you get the picture.

Oh, I definitely get the picture. I enjoy this xt workout on Sat am to a certain extent because it provides a high intensity workout, most of the time, and does seem to help achilles – and is only place I can do reasonable bare foot work (everything except circuits with machines is bare foot on mats) this time of year. It’s also the only time I get to talk to other runners. But it comes at a substantial cost of what else I can do – both in terms of volume and scheduling. But I’m close to periodizing out of it now anyway (this wk and maybe 1 wk in Feb) – unless we get some ice storms. We got another 6+ inches last night and I’ll give them a longer ride today.

I’d sure like some fresh stuff  Ours is really drifted after the last wind storm. I’ve begun to appreciate the groomed trails since there’s less drifting, but it’s sorta like treadmill running compared to real running.  One of the benefits of retirement, being able to move your run to any time of the day.

Ya know, somebody on another group is rubbing this in also Well, the sooner I stop this and get my lab work and writing done, the sooner I’ll be there. Dot — "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Response:

yah allso got a crock 4 you too. 50 per cent off.  

Response:

Yah go goat trail your self you loser.

Response:

Yah go goat trail your self you loser.

Congrats Tommie nearly a full sentance. Maybe you should post more often when angry so we discern what the hell you talking about.  I’m almost convinced that you are in fact the biggest r.r troll and not Willie Wanker or Miss Anne Thrope. — Doug Freese "Caveat Lector"

Response:

Screwed. I finally broke down and put some screws into and old pair of shoes. Last night we got maybe an inch of dry snow. If you ski you would be happy but for running it really sucks. I broke down and spent about $1.50 for some 3/8" screws as described   in http://www.skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm  They worked great! I did 5 miles and not so much as a slip. I thought the screw heads might present a awkward feel on dry road but it didn’t happen at least for the short sections of bare road.  Would a longer run have some negative results, remains to be seen.

Does anyone know where one can buy these screws on-line (preferably in the UK)?  I’ve done all my local hardware stores and searched the net for suppliers but I can’t find a supplier anywhere. Tim — Please support rheumatoid arthritis research! Visit http://www.justgiving.com/pfp/speyside or http://www,justgiving.com/speyside if you’re a UK tax payer.

Response:

Does anyone know where one can buy these screws on-line (preferably in the UK)?  I’ve done all my local hardware stores and searched the net for suppliers but I can’t find a supplier anywhere.

In the US we have very large, about the size of a football field, home improvement centers. Two in particular that are in my area are Lowes and Home Depot. I looked and they seem to be US only Stores. If it helps your search, I used "6X3/8 hex washer head" screws. I guess you can use 1/2 inch but they looked a little too long although the web page says they are ok for normal midsole thickness. The web page forgets that screws are measured in two dimensions, length and thickness. As you might imagine these come in various thickness’.  I chose the 6’s cuz they looked like they would do the job. I would think 8’s would also work. I did two spring time trails races last year and one in the fall where screws would have been my physical and mental salvation to get through the mud.  I will henceforth carry a spare pair with the extra hardware. Fool me once….. — Doug Freese "Caveat Lector"

Response:

he could tell my the goats yaks trax plodzilla – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No it’s not a post to discuss sexual relations with a goat. It’s actually two topics of questionable running value. Screwed. I finally broke down and put some screws into and old pair of shoes. Last night we got maybe an inch of dry snow. If you ski you would be happy but for running it really sucks. I beg your pardon But I would say it depends on your choice of shoe – like using snowshoes Or if you’ve only got 1 in, then that’s not enough. I broke down and spent about $1.50 for some 3/8" screws as described  in http://www.skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm  They worked great! I did 5 miles and not so much as a slip. I thought the screw heads might present a awkward feel on dry road but it didn’t happen at least for the short sections of bare road.  Would a longer run have some negative results, remains to be seen. Oh, oh. Doug’s extending his running conditions I’m guessing it depends on what type of shoes you’re wearing – and how much material there is in the sole. Bill L. said he got blisters but no distance/time/conditions given (Building mileage/time in snow – posts on Nov 1, 2001 – kinda fun to reread that thread). It was a delightful experience. It wasn’t a heavily travel road but the few cars that did pass did double takes and laughed their asses  off. LOL. This was the first post I saw when I signed on tonight I got a note today from one of my goat herding fellow runners, he called another friend that lives and runs on the road to ask if he knew anything. He responded, hell yes, I run with the goat a few days a week and he’s great on the trails. I wonder if he ski-jors with the goat Dot — "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Response:

No it’s not a post to discuss sexual relations with a goat.

Don’t worry Freese, we know your mind (as wee as it maybe)

Response:

No it’s not a post to discuss sexual relations with a goat. It’s actually two topics of questionable running value. Screwed. I finally broke down and put some screws into and old pair of shoes. Last night we got maybe an inch of dry snow. If you ski you would be happy but for running it really sucks.

I beg your pardon But I would say it depends on your choice of shoe – like using snowshoes Or if you’ve only got 1 in, then that’s not enough. I broke down and spent about $1.50 for some 3/8" screws as described  in http://www.skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm  They worked great! I did 5 miles and not so much as a slip. I thought the screw heads might present a awkward feel on dry road but it didn’t happen at least for the short sections of bare road.  Would a longer run have some negative results, remains to be seen.

Oh, oh. Doug’s extending his running conditions I’m guessing it depends on what type of shoes you’re wearing – and how much material there is in the sole. Bill L. said he got blisters but no distance/time/conditions given (Building mileage/time in snow – posts on Nov 1, 2001 – kinda fun to reread that thread). It was a delightful experience. It wasn’t a heavily travel road but the few cars that did pass did double takes and laughed their asses  off.

LOL. This was the first post I saw when I signed on tonight I got a note today from one of my goat herding fellow runners, he called another friend that lives and runs on the road to ask if he knew anything. He responded, hell yes, I run with the goat a few days a week and he’s great on the trails.

I wonder if he ski-jors with the goat Dot — "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Response:

The little shit did 5 miles with us behaving as well as my old Golden retriever

How funny! I’ve had a few dogs tag along for a couple of miles. I think most dogs get bored when they realize you aren’t going to stop and sniff every fire hydrant. The record belongs to my friend the deerfly. The bastard followed my for 8 miles. That was an intense workout for my legs AND arms.    -Phil

Response:

No it’s not a post to discuss sexual relations with a goat. It’s actually two topics of questionable running value. Screwed. I finally broke down and put some screws into and old pair of shoes. Last night we got maybe an inch of dry snow. If you ski you would be happy but for running it really sucks.

I ski, and I was quite happy. I moved to Indy from the Twin Cities last summer. I had decided to take up XC skiing last year, and we barely had any snow. Indy generally doesn’t get anywhere near what the Twin Cities does, but we had 3-4 inches Sunday and another 3-4 today, so I’ve gotten to go twice. It was sweet! <snip Goat. I’m sure we can all relate to dogs and some to cows or bulls and other wild creatures especially when challenged. Yesterday three of us were on a 13 mile run and as we approached a house we saw a goat in the front yard. As we passed the little billy goat came out to visit us. Our first reaction was to be leery and not get butted. We continued to run thinking it would return to the front yard. The little shit did 5 miles with us behaving as well as my old Golden retriever. Not unlike most dogs that run he liked to be about a heads length in front of first runner. It was a delightful experience. It wasn’t a heavily travel road but the few cars that did pass did double takes and laughed their asses   off.

So then you were running with a goat and some donkeys? –Harold Buck "I used to rock and roll all night,  and party every day.  Then it was every other day. . . ."       -Homer J. Simpson

Response:

Have had a skunk tag along with me before, but he only stayed with me for maybe 50 yards or so and then peeled off.  Even so, it was a little intimidating because I didn’t know whether he’d try to spray me (he didn’t).

Response:

No it’s not a post to discuss sexual relations with a goat.

We know, you prefer young boys.

Response:

Upstate NY- we steal your women not your wallet. I don’t hang with the those gun totin’ macho city slickers that hang out by Central Park with plastic ice cream cones. I moved out at age 11 just as I ordered my first pair of brass knuckles.

I dunno, Doug. The more I learn about you the more I think you would have been fine in northern Arkansas. We had hills there, if that helps any. Neat run with the goat, by the way. Layne The rec.running report archives may be found at http://kinder.cis.unf.edu/rec.running

Response:

where do you run? i thought you were in NY?? goats, asses, all sorts of farm animals..

Upstate NY- we steal your women not your wallet. I don’t hang with the those gun totin’ macho city slickers that hang out by Central Park with plastic ice cream cones. I moved out at age 11 just as I ordered my first pair of brass knuckles. does he have a preference when it comes to deciding whether to eat before or after a run?

Now that we are on a first name basis, I’ll ask him. or is he like you – adept at eating on the run?

It was about 5 degrees and I wasn’t stopping to munch. Only one udder so we passed on trying for some milk. — Doug Freese "Caveat Lector"

Response:

No it’s not a post to discuss sexual relations with a goat. It’s actually two topics of questionable running value. Screwed. I finally broke down and put some screws into and old pair of shoes. Last night we got maybe an inch of dry snow. If you ski you would be happy but for running it really sucks. I broke down and spent about $1.50 for some 3/8" screws as described   in http://www.skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm  They worked great! I did 5 miles and not so much as a slip. I thought the screw heads might present a awkward feel on dry road but it didn’t happen at least for the short sections of bare road.  Would a longer run have some negative results, remains to be seen. Goat. I’m sure we can all relate to dogs and some to cows or bulls and other wild creatures especially when challenged. Yesterday three of us were on a 13 mile run and as we approached a house we saw a goat in the front yard. As we passed the little billy goat came out to visit us. Our first reaction was to be leery and not get butted. We continued to run thinking it would return to the front yard. The little shit did 5 miles with us behaving as well as my old Golden retriever. Not unlike most dogs that run he liked to be about a heads length in front of first runner. It was a delightful experience. It wasn’t a heavily travel road but the few cars that did pass did double takes and laughed their asses   off. I got a note today from one of my goat herding fellow runners, he called another friend that lives and runs on the road to ask if he knew anything. He responded, hell yes, I run with the goat a few days a week and he’s great on the trails. Next time we’ll bring some oats to give him a treat. — Doug Freese "Caveat Lector"

Response: