At worst, it is the onset of plantar faciitis.

At 3 miles on a treadmill? Not likely.

Response:

I’m not sure if I should worry about this.  Any wild guess on what might be causing the pain?  Maybe my crummy 4-yr old worn-down tennis shoes or something?  A trip to the doctor essentially means wrecking the entire day’s schedule for everyone in the family and everyone at work.  So really… I don’t want to go out of my way to see a doctor unless I’m reasonably sure something’s afoot (sorry for the pun).

It’s not that usual for someone taking up a new activity to have some temporary pain.  It can simply be muscles/tendons being used in ways they’re not used to being used–one reason to take it easy in the beginning. What stands out, though, is the 4-year old tennis shoes.   The standard prescription around here, which I agree with, is to go to a real running store and get fitted with a proper pair of running shoes for your running style.  My sense is that you’re at least somewhat of a pronator with at least somewhat flat feet, and your feet need (at a minimum) some arch support that they’re not getting.  If you do not deal with the source of this pain, it is vey likely that you will get injured as you run more. Lyndon "Speed Kills…It kills those that don’t have it!"  –US Olympic Track Coach Brooks Johnson

Response:

I started jogging regularly five weeks ago.  I’ve been doing 3 miles on the treadmill for half an hour, six days a week.  In that time, I’ve experienced various minor pains along my shins, calves, knees, etc.

And you expected what? You’ll find lots of new pains for a month or two, until one or more becomes chronic, or repeated, it’s really not worth commenting on.

Response:

I started jogging regularly five weeks ago.  I’ve been doing 3 miles on the treadmill for half an hour, six days a week.  In that time, I’ve experienced various minor pains along my shins, calves, knees, etc. In the past few days, however, I started experiencing a relatively significant pain along the front arch at the bottom of my right foot. It hasn’t been painful enough to affect my 30-minute jogging routine… but it’s enough of a bother so that I wouldn’t last longer than my half an hour on the treadmill if I wanted to. The pain usually starts halfway through my workout.  It subsides within an hour after I stop jogging.  This same right foot was the source of a fairly severe ankle injury a couple of years ago.  But I’m quite sure the problem I’m experiencing right now isn’t related to that, because this pain is along the bottom arch on the front side of the foot (not along the ankle). I’m not sure if I should worry about this.  Any wild guess on what might be causing the pain?  Maybe my crummy 4-yr old worn-down tennis shoes or something?  A trip to the doctor essentially means wrecking the entire day’s schedule for everyone in the family and everyone at work.  So really… I don’t want to go out of my way to see a doctor unless I’m reasonably sure something’s afoot (sorry for the pun).

Response:

I am looking for a good trail running shoe that also provides some degree of motion control. I am not able to provide an expert opinion, but the new issue of Trail Runner that just hit the stands has a good overview of both trail running shoes and adventure racing shoes.  Lots of reviews, though they are not very detailed individually.  As I say, a good "overview."

That issue is one of the few duds I’ve seen from TrailRunner (as was last year’s gear review issue). Their "gear" issue is largely a list of some things on the market and a few general comments from elites. For instance with hydration bladders, I think they list 3 from camelbak and   20 from Liquid Solutions – which I’d never heard of before (and web page doesn’t have picture of the larger models). I think I "read" it in less than 1 hr. But the issue does have a list of shoes, although no info on whether shoe is motion control or whatever. I notice the newer Brooks Trespass 2 – the one I walk to work in because the toe box is too narrow – is listed as an "adventure racing" shoe Ahh, marketing ploys. Their monthly gear reviews are a little more substantial and actually useful for some things. Dot — "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Response:

I am looking for a good trail running shoe that also provides some degree of motion control. Any recommendations?

Response:

I am looking for a good trail running shoe that also provides some degree of

motion control. I am not able to provide an expert opinion, but the new issue of Trail Runner that just hit the stands has a good overview of both trail running shoes and adventure racing shoes.  Lots of reviews, though they are not very detailed individually.  As I say, a good "overview."

Response:

I am looking for a good trail running shoe that also provides some degree of motion control.

What type of trails are you running that you need a trail shoe? Are you sure you need a motion control shoe? or would stability work? Is this just your feeling or a recommendation from a running shoe store or PT or some other medical professional? Just asking – and not sure I can provide any recommendations if you do actually need a motion control trail shoe. Just wanted to be sure that’s what you intended to ask. My stability trail shoes (original Brooks Trespass) work fine for me, but I don’t think they’d work well on a pointy-side up rocky trail (Trespass 2 would work here, but they’ve changed the toe box so I can’t use the newer version), and there might be better shoes for deep, clay mud. Or a road shoe may work well for what you’re running on. I used a road shoe for years. Doug and many others run trail ultras in road shoes. Do you run in hot conditions where breathability would ba paramount issue? or is dust coming in open mesh an issue? or stream crossings? snow? Dot — "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Response:

Not mean so much as overconfident in my ability.  It’s a "fun" race that has a long history in the area and I was thrilled to finish it having NEVER run a cross country in my life let alone one up & down a black diamond xc ski trail.  I live near the ski area and plan to train there regularly this spring and summer

I like your way of thinking. Since I live close to to a good uphill I don’t have to trek to the ski area in the summer and spring. I actually have hundreds of state marked trails to choose from. Too narrow because you are sharing them with cars? Yes.  Blind curves and high snowbanks aren’t the best combination.

Gotcha. Says who? You can’t share them as long as you stay out of the ski tracks? Snowmobiles are worse than cars.  Up here it’s more of a way to head from bar to bar.  I like the idea of running on the lakes – wide open and unlimited possibilities.  There’s more water here than land.

Which floor of the ark do you live. I guess a frozen lake is better than a Tmill but still a bit flat. You can use the Tmill for   elevation runs(after they get it fixed) I’ve always had a screw or two loose so this won’t be a problem.

You got all the prerequisites for an endurance trail runner.  Am I getting warm? I’m waiting for them to get un-ugly.  Today’s high was -10 with -25 wind chills.  Tomorrow we’re supposed to have -35 wind chills.  The high on Saturday is supposed to be 10 and sunny so I may venture out.

A veritable heat spell – shorts and a tank top?  We are back in the 20’s. treadmills at the place I go blew up the other night and it’s going to be a while before it’s fixed or replaced so I have to suck up and deal with the cold if I want to accomplish my training goals.

And these training goals are????? As Dot asked, let us know how they work on pure ice. I have been using them on snow covered ice which works well so far. Good luck and have fun. — Doug Freese "Caveat Lector"

Response:

I live near the ski area and plan to train there regularly this spring and summer

Is there any reason why you can’t run there now – assuming you stay out of ski tracks? Different ski areas are different, but our local etiquette is that snowshoers can use trails as long as they stay off the tracks. However, there’s been occasional horses, people, and dogs there, so it’s a little pockmarked outside the tracks, but not bad. I had a really beautiful run on our local xc ski area this evening – beautiful half moon light casting shadows through the trees. Ran 1 lap with headlight on (normal running), then ran/walked a 2nd with snowshoes and headlight off. Not another soul on the trail or in the parking area. Snowmobiles are worse than cars.  Up here it’s more of a way to head from bar to bar.  I like the idea of running on the lakes – wide open and unlimited possibilities.  There’s more water here than land.

The snow machines where I am (southcentral Alaska) love to open throttle on the wide open lakes  I tend to hide on the trails in the trees. Here’s some ideas for other devices if the screws don’t work. I got these links from another Alaskan in another running group: http://www.adn.com/outdoors/story/2666130p-2707203c.html http://skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm http://www.compasspoint-online.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Metal_… http://www.icebug.se/launch.asp I’ve used Ice Joggers on smooth ice (black ice) around here, and I think that’s the most common type used here, but I could be wrong. The carbide tips will bite into most ice, but they aren’t particularly long so if you have snow on top of ice or lumpy ice, not all the studs grab. In the past, I’ve found this type running to be nasty on the legs, so I avoid it now. Studs get used in parking lots, walking to work, etc. They might be too narrow to grip packed snow, but I’ve always been able to get by with my normal shoes for most things except ice or hard-packed snow polished by the wind. http://www.running-shoes-n-clothing.com/Surefoot-Surefoot-Ice-Joggers… I wasn’t sure if cleats would work on ice (snow covered) and I was considering Yaktrax.

I haven’t used Yaktrax either, but have seen poor reviews for them on *ice*. But I’ve seen at least one good report for running on *snow* on trail – but I don’t remember what kind of snow – although may have a tendency to break. I do have Yaktrax for emergencies in the car or whatever and did take them with me on tonight’s trail run thinking I might need some traction, but the snow was so nice, I didn’t need anything except my normal shoes (Brooks Trespass 1). I think the screws are the cheapest way to go – and perhaps the most general – if you have an old pair of shoes, which I don’t (joys of changing shoe styles). But I’d be interested in hearing how they do on black ice (which is where I usually use IceJoggers) or bare lake ice. We tend to use the strap-on devices since we use them to negotiate walking around in normal life (remove when entering buildings) and since we have them, use them for running also.   BTW, I’m a very novice runner (8 months) and I’ve never run outdoors in the winter.  Now that I know there are races all winter I’m interested in expanding my horizons.  Plus I am getting rather sick of the treadmill. You can always slide back indoors when the conditions are truly ugly.

Ditto on that! Another adventurer! I’m waiting for them to get un-ugly.  Today’s high was -10 with -25 wind chills.  Tomorrow we’re supposed to have -35 wind chills.  The high on Saturday is supposed to be 10 and sunny so I may venture out.  

The winds can get interesting at those temperatues unless you’ve got good wind gear With experience, you’ll find out what layers work under what conditions and how to keep your sports drinks from freezing – or whether it’s not worth the hassle, depending on your goals and interests. Winter can be a truly enjoyable time to run outside *after* one has the gear figured out. Enjoy your running. Dot The moon and stars were so bright tonight I just had to go stand in the middle of the starting area and watch them after I was done. — "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Response:

I’m curious about this because I need something for better traction. This fall I did a 5K cross country race at a XC ski place and a friend recommended that I get cleats if I’m going to continue this folly (steep, snow over leaves, etc.).  Of course he neglected to tell me this when he gave me the entry form and I had no clue what I was getting into at the time. A friend with a mean streak?  :)

Not mean so much as overconfident in my ability.  It’s a "fun" race that has a long history in the area and I was thrilled to finish it having NEVER run a cross country in my life let alone one up & down a black diamond xc ski trail.  I live near the ski area and plan to train there regularly this spring and summer The only safe place to run outdoors for me during the winter is on the lakes because the roads are too narrow Too narrow because you are sharing them with cars?

Yes.  Blind curves and high snowbanks aren’t the best combination. and the trails are for snowmobiles or XC skiing. Says who? You can’t share them as long as you stay out of the ski tracks?

Snowmobiles are worse than cars.  Up here it’s more of a way to head from bar to bar.  I like the idea of running on the lakes – wide open and unlimited possibilities.  There’s more water here than land. I wasn’t sure if cleats would work on ice (snow covered) and I was considering Yaktrax. I have not tried the Yaktrax. I chose the screws because they are not expensive, no straps to break which happen all too frequently, used by fellow trail friends(not the cruel type <G) that do this all the time. At worst a screw or two might come out and you have to replace them.

I’ve always had a screw or two loose so this won’t be a problem. Eventually we’re going to get back above 0 and it is getting light enough later in the day that I’d like to get back outside as soon as possible, but I don’t want to fall and break something. For a few cents try the screws in an old pair and see how they work. If you’re not happy try the Yaktrax or some other flavor of cramp on device. If you missed the web page for a visual – dial in http://www.skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm

Cool beans!  I’m headed to Ace tomorrow BTW, I’m a very novice runner (8 months) and I’ve never run outdoors in the winter.  Now that I know there are races all winter I’m interested in expanding my horizons.  Plus I am getting rather sick of the treadmill. You can always slide back indoors when the conditions are truly ugly.

I’m waiting for them to get un-ugly.  Today’s high was -10 with -25 wind chills.  Tomorrow we’re supposed to have -35 wind chills.  The high on Saturday is supposed to be 10 and sunny so I may venture out.  One of the treadmills at the place I go blew up the other night and it’s going to be a while before it’s fixed or replaced so I have to suck up and deal with the cold if I want to accomplish my training goals. Thanks for the tips! Jenn

Response:

I’m curious about this because I need something for better traction.  This fall I did a 5K cross country race at a XC ski place and a friend recommended that I get cleats if I’m going to continue this folly (steep, snow over leaves, etc.).  Of course he neglected to tell me this when he gave me the entry form and I had no clue what I was getting into at the time.

A friend with a mean streak?  :) The only safe place to run outdoors for me during the winter is on the lakes because the roads are too narrow

Too narrow because you are sharing them with cars? and the trails are for snowmobiles or XC skiing.  

Says who? You can’t share them as long as you stay out of the ski tracks? I wasn’t sure if cleats would work on ice (snow covered) and I was considering Yaktrax.  

I have not tried the Yaktrax. I chose the screws because they are not expensive, no straps to break which happen all too frequently, used by fellow trail friends(not the cruel type <G) that do this all the time. At worst a screw or two might come out and you have to replace them. Eventually we’re going to get back above 0 and it is getting light enough later in the day that I’d like to get back outside as soon as possible, but I don’t want to fall and break something.

For a few cents try the screws in an old pair and see how they work. If you’re not happy try the Yaktrax or some other flavor of cramp on device. If you missed the web page for a visual – dial in http://www.skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm BTW, I’m a very novice runner (8 months) and I’ve never run outdoors in the winter.  Now that I know there are races all winter I’m interested in expanding my horizons.  Plus I am getting rather sick of the treadmill.  

You can always slide back indoors when the conditions are truly ugly. — Doug Freese "Caveat Lector"

Response:

WHO WAS IT, THREATENED THE PRESIDENT? WHO ADVOCATED AID TO TERRORISTS? YEP, our own BILL DAVIDSON, just one day after the 9-11 attack, while the victims were still burning. "we should bomb that pathetic excuse  for a man too, or at least give his location to every terrorist group we can find, and let them take him out. Just what we need in the white house, a coked-up dopehead running the country". Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bagpipe http://groups.google.com/groups?q=pathetic+pea-brain+mrrobottow&hl=en… YO!  Homeland Security dudes: KEY PHRASES! BOMB  "WHITE HOUSE" "TERRORIST GROUP" THERE’S YER ANTISOCIAL NUT CASE, RIGHT THERE! COULD BE another John Hinckley.  Check him out! This US citizen publicly called for AID to TERRORISTS: IS HIS NAME ON YOUR LIST? Check him out! To long-suffering RMMB contributors: DO COPY AND PASTE this message.  THEN use it to REPLY anytime you have an urge to respond to the NOT-REALLY-ANNONYMOUS troll on RMMB and rec.running.  (Why, YES, Bill Davidson, the source of thousands of lowlife postings under dozens of account names, is also "TheBillRodgers" and his clones. Will Bill’s own words  amuse him as much as they amuse us?   WILL THEY AMUSE OTHERS?  Let’s find out. Let’s be sure BILL gets the attention he deserves and craves. COPY, PASTE, REPLY to our TROLL.  IT’S THAT EASY

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know where one can buy these screws on-line (preferably in the UK)?  I’ve done all my local hardware stores and searched the net for suppliers but I can’t find a supplier anywhere. In the US we have very large, about the size of a football field, home improvement centers. Two in particular that are in my area are Lowes and Home Depot. I looked and they seem to be US only Stores. If it helps your search, I used "6X3/8 hex washer head" screws. I guess you can use 1/2 inch but they looked a little too long although the web page says they are ok for normal midsole thickness. The web page forgets that screws are measured in two dimensions, length and thickness. As you might imagine these come in various thickness’.  I chose the 6’s cuz they looked like they would do the job. I would think 8’s would also work. I did two spring time trails races last year and one in the fall where screws would have been my physical and mental salvation to get through the mud.  I will henceforth carry a spare pair with the extra hardware. Fool me once….. — Doug Freese "Caveat Lector"

I’m curious about this because I need something for better traction.  This fall I did a 5K cross country race at a XC ski place and a friend recommended that I get cleats if I’m going to continue this folly (steep, snow over leaves, etc.).  Of course he neglected to tell me this when he gave me the entry form and I had no clue what I was getting into at the time. The only safe place to run outdoors for me during the winter is on the lakes because the roads are too narrow and the trails are for snowmobiles or XC skiing.  I wasn’t sure if cleats would work on ice (snow covered) and I was considering Yaktrax.  Eventually we’re going to get back above 0 and it is getting light enough later in the day that I’d like to get back outside as soon as possible, but I don’t want to fall and break something. BTW, I’m a very novice runner (8 months) and I’ve never run outdoors in the winter.  Now that I know there are races all winter I’m interested in expanding my horizons.  Plus I am getting rather sick of the treadmill.  Any advice will be helpful. Jenn

Response:

me think you homo, go pee on your leg you big sonofagun you. tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yah go goat trail your self you loser. Congrats Tommie nearly a full sentance. Maybe you should post more often when angry so we discern what the hell you talking about.  I’m almost convinced that you are in fact the biggest r.r troll and not Willie Wanker or Miss Anne Thrope.

Response:

I beg your pardon But I would say it depends on your choice of shoe – like using snowshoes Or if you’ve only got 1 in, then that’s not enough.

Actually, in most years the conditions around these parts aren’t good for snow shoeing.  Most of my snowshoe pals are driving 1-2 hours to find a snow race. Without a snow volume off road it’s on the roads and that is typically some combination of hard slippery snow and ice. If we had consistent volume conditions from year to year I would buy a pair. Oh, oh. Doug’s extending his running conditions

How true, color me flexible. Last winter my training was severely stifled by icy conditions and I barely maintained low 40’s mileage instead of mid 50’s. If was enough mileage that I still did my spring races but I had to temper my resulting times big time. I’m hoping the screws will let me run in conditions that would normally keep me locked inside. No disrespect for inside training like Tmills but discovered years ago that regardless of the visual and auditory distractions, inside exercise even for short periods of time, hummmmmm, suck! Poor choice of word but you get the picture. I’m guessing it depends on what type of shoes you’re wearing – and how much material there is in the sole.

I simply took a pair of 2080’s with high mileage on them and put in the screws for a test. If you have a power screw driver it only takes a minute or so. We got another 6+ inches last night and I’ll give them a longer ride today. I usually run on Wed nights with some school teachers but I suspect schools will be closed and we can run mid day after the roads are cleared to gather at their place.  One of the benefits of retirement, being able to move your run to any time of the day. With the extra time I’m hoping we will run 8-12 rather than 6-8. — Doug Freese "Caveat Lector"

Response:

No it’s not a post to discuss sexual relations with a goat

Oh, OK, I’ll read no further.

Response:

I beg your pardon But I would say it depends on your choice of shoe – like using snowshoes Or if you’ve only got 1 in, then that’s not enough. Actually, in most years the conditions around these parts aren’t good for snow shoeing.  Most of my snowshoe pals are driving 1-2 hours to find a snow race.

Duh, that’s how far we usually have to drive to find a trail race in summer – except for 2 local ones, and one of those is a mtn one that’s beyond anything I think I’d be able to do. And I have to drive past decent trail heads to get there. There’s one this weekend that some are driving to that’s probably 2-3 hr (1 way), depending on road conditions. I can’t handle that much time on the road when I could be running. Actually, I’m trying to plant the seeds of thought in the new snowshoe club organizers’ mind, that we have some nice trails out here in the valley also and would be a nice place to have a get together. I’m not sure if there were any snowshoe races in our parts (2 hr either side of Anchorage) before the club started last year. Fbks has always had snowshoe races, but things down here are pretty dull in the winter for races. Without a snow volume off road it’s on the roads and that is typically some combination of hard slippery snow and ice. If we had consistent volume conditions from year to year I would buy a pair. I’m hoping the screws will let me run in conditions that would normally keep me locked inside. No disrespect for inside training like Tmills but discovered years ago that regardless of the visual and auditory distractions, inside exercise even for short periods of time, hummmmmm, suck! Poor choice of word but you get the picture.

Oh, I definitely get the picture. I enjoy this xt workout on Sat am to a certain extent because it provides a high intensity workout, most of the time, and does seem to help achilles – and is only place I can do reasonable bare foot work (everything except circuits with machines is bare foot on mats) this time of year. It’s also the only time I get to talk to other runners. But it comes at a substantial cost of what else I can do – both in terms of volume and scheduling. But I’m close to periodizing out of it now anyway (this wk and maybe 1 wk in Feb) – unless we get some ice storms. We got another 6+ inches last night and I’ll give them a longer ride today.

I’d sure like some fresh stuff  Ours is really drifted after the last wind storm. I’ve begun to appreciate the groomed trails since there’s less drifting, but it’s sorta like treadmill running compared to real running.  One of the benefits of retirement, being able to move your run to any time of the day.

Ya know, somebody on another group is rubbing this in also Well, the sooner I stop this and get my lab work and writing done, the sooner I’ll be there. Dot — "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Response:

yah allso got a crock 4 you too. 50 per cent off.  

Response:

Yah go goat trail your self you loser.

Response:

Yah go goat trail your self you loser.

Congrats Tommie nearly a full sentance. Maybe you should post more often when angry so we discern what the hell you talking about.  I’m almost convinced that you are in fact the biggest r.r troll and not Willie Wanker or Miss Anne Thrope. — Doug Freese "Caveat Lector"

Response:

Screwed. I finally broke down and put some screws into and old pair of shoes. Last night we got maybe an inch of dry snow. If you ski you would be happy but for running it really sucks. I broke down and spent about $1.50 for some 3/8" screws as described   in http://www.skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm  They worked great! I did 5 miles and not so much as a slip. I thought the screw heads might present a awkward feel on dry road but it didn’t happen at least for the short sections of bare road.  Would a longer run have some negative results, remains to be seen.

Does anyone know where one can buy these screws on-line (preferably in the UK)?  I’ve done all my local hardware stores and searched the net for suppliers but I can’t find a supplier anywhere. Tim — Please support rheumatoid arthritis research! Visit http://www.justgiving.com/pfp/speyside or http://www,justgiving.com/speyside if you’re a UK tax payer.

Response:

Does anyone know where one can buy these screws on-line (preferably in the UK)?  I’ve done all my local hardware stores and searched the net for suppliers but I can’t find a supplier anywhere.

In the US we have very large, about the size of a football field, home improvement centers. Two in particular that are in my area are Lowes and Home Depot. I looked and they seem to be US only Stores. If it helps your search, I used "6X3/8 hex washer head" screws. I guess you can use 1/2 inch but they looked a little too long although the web page says they are ok for normal midsole thickness. The web page forgets that screws are measured in two dimensions, length and thickness. As you might imagine these come in various thickness’.  I chose the 6’s cuz they looked like they would do the job. I would think 8’s would also work. I did two spring time trails races last year and one in the fall where screws would have been my physical and mental salvation to get through the mud.  I will henceforth carry a spare pair with the extra hardware. Fool me once….. — Doug Freese "Caveat Lector"

Response:

he could tell my the goats yaks trax plodzilla – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No it’s not a post to discuss sexual relations with a goat. It’s actually two topics of questionable running value. Screwed. I finally broke down and put some screws into and old pair of shoes. Last night we got maybe an inch of dry snow. If you ski you would be happy but for running it really sucks. I beg your pardon But I would say it depends on your choice of shoe – like using snowshoes Or if you’ve only got 1 in, then that’s not enough. I broke down and spent about $1.50 for some 3/8" screws as described  in http://www.skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm  They worked great! I did 5 miles and not so much as a slip. I thought the screw heads might present a awkward feel on dry road but it didn’t happen at least for the short sections of bare road.  Would a longer run have some negative results, remains to be seen. Oh, oh. Doug’s extending his running conditions I’m guessing it depends on what type of shoes you’re wearing – and how much material there is in the sole. Bill L. said he got blisters but no distance/time/conditions given (Building mileage/time in snow – posts on Nov 1, 2001 – kinda fun to reread that thread). It was a delightful experience. It wasn’t a heavily travel road but the few cars that did pass did double takes and laughed their asses  off. LOL. This was the first post I saw when I signed on tonight I got a note today from one of my goat herding fellow runners, he called another friend that lives and runs on the road to ask if he knew anything. He responded, hell yes, I run with the goat a few days a week and he’s great on the trails. I wonder if he ski-jors with the goat Dot — "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Response:

No it’s not a post to discuss sexual relations with a goat.

Don’t worry Freese, we know your mind (as wee as it maybe)

Response:

No it’s not a post to discuss sexual relations with a goat. It’s actually two topics of questionable running value. Screwed. I finally broke down and put some screws into and old pair of shoes. Last night we got maybe an inch of dry snow. If you ski you would be happy but for running it really sucks.

I beg your pardon But I would say it depends on your choice of shoe – like using snowshoes Or if you’ve only got 1 in, then that’s not enough. I broke down and spent about $1.50 for some 3/8" screws as described  in http://www.skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm  They worked great! I did 5 miles and not so much as a slip. I thought the screw heads might present a awkward feel on dry road but it didn’t happen at least for the short sections of bare road.  Would a longer run have some negative results, remains to be seen.

Oh, oh. Doug’s extending his running conditions I’m guessing it depends on what type of shoes you’re wearing – and how much material there is in the sole. Bill L. said he got blisters but no distance/time/conditions given (Building mileage/time in snow – posts on Nov 1, 2001 – kinda fun to reread that thread). It was a delightful experience. It wasn’t a heavily travel road but the few cars that did pass did double takes and laughed their asses  off.

LOL. This was the first post I saw when I signed on tonight I got a note today from one of my goat herding fellow runners, he called another friend that lives and runs on the road to ask if he knew anything. He responded, hell yes, I run with the goat a few days a week and he’s great on the trails.

I wonder if he ski-jors with the goat Dot — "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

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The little shit did 5 miles with us behaving as well as my old Golden retriever

How funny! I’ve had a few dogs tag along for a couple of miles. I think most dogs get bored when they realize you aren’t going to stop and sniff every fire hydrant. The record belongs to my friend the deerfly. The bastard followed my for 8 miles. That was an intense workout for my legs AND arms.    -Phil

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No it’s not a post to discuss sexual relations with a goat. It’s actually two topics of questionable running value. Screwed. I finally broke down and put some screws into and old pair of shoes. Last night we got maybe an inch of dry snow. If you ski you would be happy but for running it really sucks.

I ski, and I was quite happy. I moved to Indy from the Twin Cities last summer. I had decided to take up XC skiing last year, and we barely had any snow. Indy generally doesn’t get anywhere near what the Twin Cities does, but we had 3-4 inches Sunday and another 3-4 today, so I’ve gotten to go twice. It was sweet! <snip Goat. I’m sure we can all relate to dogs and some to cows or bulls and other wild creatures especially when challenged. Yesterday three of us were on a 13 mile run and as we approached a house we saw a goat in the front yard. As we passed the little billy goat came out to visit us. Our first reaction was to be leery and not get butted. We continued to run thinking it would return to the front yard. The little shit did 5 miles with us behaving as well as my old Golden retriever. Not unlike most dogs that run he liked to be about a heads length in front of first runner. It was a delightful experience. It wasn’t a heavily travel road but the few cars that did pass did double takes and laughed their asses   off.

So then you were running with a goat and some donkeys? –Harold Buck "I used to rock and roll all night,  and party every day.  Then it was every other day. . . ."       -Homer J. Simpson

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Have had a skunk tag along with me before, but he only stayed with me for maybe 50 yards or so and then peeled off.  Even so, it was a little intimidating because I didn’t know whether he’d try to spray me (he didn’t).

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No it’s not a post to discuss sexual relations with a goat.

We know, you prefer young boys.

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Upstate NY- we steal your women not your wallet. I don’t hang with the those gun totin’ macho city slickers that hang out by Central Park with plastic ice cream cones. I moved out at age 11 just as I ordered my first pair of brass knuckles.

I dunno, Doug. The more I learn about you the more I think you would have been fine in northern Arkansas. We had hills there, if that helps any. Neat run with the goat, by the way. Layne The rec.running report archives may be found at http://kinder.cis.unf.edu/rec.running

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where do you run? i thought you were in NY?? goats, asses, all sorts of farm animals..

Upstate NY- we steal your women not your wallet. I don’t hang with the those gun totin’ macho city slickers that hang out by Central Park with plastic ice cream cones. I moved out at age 11 just as I ordered my first pair of brass knuckles. does he have a preference when it comes to deciding whether to eat before or after a run?

Now that we are on a first name basis, I’ll ask him. or is he like you – adept at eating on the run?

It was about 5 degrees and I wasn’t stopping to munch. Only one udder so we passed on trying for some milk. — Doug Freese "Caveat Lector"

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No it’s not a post to discuss sexual relations with a goat. It’s actually two topics of questionable running value. Screwed. I finally broke down and put some screws into and old pair of shoes. Last night we got maybe an inch of dry snow. If you ski you would be happy but for running it really sucks. I broke down and spent about $1.50 for some 3/8" screws as described   in http://www.skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm  They worked great! I did 5 miles and not so much as a slip. I thought the screw heads might present a awkward feel on dry road but it didn’t happen at least for the short sections of bare road.  Would a longer run have some negative results, remains to be seen. Goat. I’m sure we can all relate to dogs and some to cows or bulls and other wild creatures especially when challenged. Yesterday three of us were on a 13 mile run and as we approached a house we saw a goat in the front yard. As we passed the little billy goat came out to visit us. Our first reaction was to be leery and not get butted. We continued to run thinking it would return to the front yard. The little shit did 5 miles with us behaving as well as my old Golden retriever. Not unlike most dogs that run he liked to be about a heads length in front of first runner. It was a delightful experience. It wasn’t a heavily travel road but the few cars that did pass did double takes and laughed their asses   off. I got a note today from one of my goat herding fellow runners, he called another friend that lives and runs on the road to ask if he knew anything. He responded, hell yes, I run with the goat a few days a week and he’s great on the trails. Next time we’ll bring some oats to give him a treat. — Doug Freese "Caveat Lector"

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I’m looking for insoles or supports to help with supination.  I actually have a pair of Brooks that are pretty good, I want something for work/exercise outside of running that could fit in a boot or sneaker.  I figured someone here might have some ideas, since there is no sci.med.podiatry.  Most of the insoles seem targeted at pronators. I’m wary of this sort of thing, since my first pair of running shoes (before I knew about supination) had anti-pronation motion control..and caused me a bit of knee trouble before I figured out what was up. Thanks, arcane ps please dont respond via email, that account no longer works.. please just follow up.. sorry if this is slightly OT, but who knows feet better than runners?

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 I figured someone here might have some ideas, since there is no sci.med.podiatry.

sci.med.orthopedics

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     I supinated badly until I started wearing Brooks’ road-racing shoes for everyday training.  They cured the problem completely. Steve McDonald

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I’m looking for insoles or supports to help with supination.  I actually have a pair of Brooks that are pretty good, I want something for work/exercise outside of running that could fit in a boot or sneaker.  I figured someone here might have some ideas, since there is no sci.med.podiatry.  Most of the insoles seem targeted at pronators. I’m wary of this sort of thing, since my first pair of running shoes (before I knew about supination) had anti-pronation motion control..and caused me a bit of knee trouble before I figured out what was up.

Look for the DownUnder brand of orthotics. Very deep heel cup with slight arch support and work well for supinators. Jim Johnson

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I have begun to do a lot more training on grass, and have started doing high mileage in cross-country spikes. This is simply because trainers absorb too much water and get heavy, and also don’t offer much grip in the mud. However people have warned me not to do to much mileage in spikes as they don’t offer enough protection. I would have thought that running on a soft surface like grass would compensate for this. After all, trainers may have a lot of cushioning, but when they are worn on concrete they must generate comparable impact forces. Also, wearing spikes offers a more natural feel. After all, humans were designed to run barefooted. NB, the grass I run on is fairly soft, and I can get 7 minute loops out of my local recreation ground so there is no running over trails and paths etc. Any Ideas? Andrew Grenfell.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have begun to do a lot more training on grass, and have started doing high mileage in cross-country spikes. This is simply because trainers absorb too much water and get heavy, and also don’t offer much grip in the mud. However people have warned me not to do to much mileage in spikes as they don’t offer enough protection. I would have thought that running on a soft surface like grass would compensate for this. After all, trainers may have a lot of cushioning, but when they are worn on concrete they must generate comparable impact forces. Also, wearing spikes offers a more natural feel. After all, humans were designed to run barefooted. NB, the grass I run on is fairly soft, and I can get 7 minute loops out of my local recreation ground so there is no running over trails and paths etc. Any Ideas?

My feeling is that this is what trail running shoes are for.  The key words are "high mileage."  Now, I run in spikes on the track every week–but not high mileage.  I think if you run high mileage in any kind of spikes, on any kind of surface, you will pay for it with high injuries. Lyndon "Speed Kills…It kills those that don’t have it!"  –US Olympic Track Coach Brooks Johnson

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I have begun to do a lot more training on grass

I’m an expert on training on grass. I normally smoke a joint as I drive to my run, and half of one as I walk to warmup, the last half on the ride home. and have started doing high mileage in cross-country spikes.

Huh? You must be english, eh? This is simply because trainers absorb too much water and get heavy, and also don’t offer much grip in the mud. However people have warned me not to do to much mileage in spikes as they don’t offer enough protection.

I guess if your running in muck like that, and stay off of hard surfaces you maybe ok then. Chiros rock man! Bill R.

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and have started doing high mileage in cross-country spikes. Huh? You must be english, eh?

How did you work that out. I thought you use miles on your side of the pond too.

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How did you work that out.

Usually when someone does something strange, I first suspect they are polish, but you didn’t spell your name backwards so I ruled that out, second-weirdest to the polish comes englishman. Chiropractors rock man! Bill R.

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How did you work that out. Usually when someone does something strange, I first suspect they are polish, but you didn’t spell your name backwards so I ruled that out, second-weirdest to the polish comes englishman. Chiropractors rock man! Bill R.

Nah, it’s not strange its just hardcore. Maybe if Americans had the same training mentality, they would have had the abundance of distance talent that we have. Its no coincidence that we have half the population of the USA yet we have had Coe, Cram, Ovett, Elliot, Foster, Moorcroft, Bedford… to name but a few, and you only have ‘pre’ the so-called champion to keep blathering on about. However I must admit, he does make good movies. AG.

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had the abundance of distance talent that we have.

Inbreeding has it’s advantages. Its no coincidence that we have half the population of the USA yet we have had Coe, Cram, Ovett, Elliot, Foster, Moorcroft, Bedford… to name but a few,

Only because you have scotland next to you, otherwise you’d suck completely. Chiropractors rock man! Bill R.

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had the abundance of distance talent that we have. Inbreeding has it’s advantages. Its no coincidence that we have half the population of the USA yet we have had Coe, Cram, Ovett, Elliot, Foster, Moorcroft, Bedford… to name but a few, Only because you have scotland next to you, otherwise you’d suck completely. Chiropractors rock man! Bill R.

But these are all English runners.

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But these are all English runners.

Their REAL fathers were scots. Chiropractors rock man! Bill R.

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But these are all English runners.

S’cuse me? 5 of those 7 are scots. Cram, Elliot, Foster, Moorcroft, Bedford..

Chiropractors rock man! Bill R.

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But these are all English runners. S’cuse me? 5 of those 7 are scots. Cram, Elliot, Foster, Moorcroft, Bedford.. Chiropractors rock man! Bill R.

Just to set the record straight: Morecroft – Coventry Coe – London/Sheffield Cram – Gateshead Elliot – Rotheram Foster – Hebburn Ovett – Brighton Bedford – London I.e. ALL English. Besides, its just like saying the USA haven’t got any good sprinters, because they all belong to different individual states.

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Morecroft – Coventry Coe – London/Sheffield Cram – Gateshead Elliot – Rotheram Foster – Hebburn Ovett – Brighton Bedford – London

Where they live is irrelevant, it’s whats in their blood that makes ‘em what they are. Besides, its just like saying the USA haven’t got any good sprinters, because they all belong to different individual states.

Scotland is no more a part of your england than afghanistan is our 51st state. Chiropractors rock man! Bill R.

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Also, wearing spikes offers a more natural feel. After all, humans were designed to run barefooted.

This is a little backward. Humans started running before shoes and after the leg was "designed". NB, the grass I run on is fairly soft, and I can get 7 minute loops out of my local recreation ground so there is no running over trails and paths etc.

If XC spikes feel good on the trail you run then keep using them. Yes you’ll experience lots of trouble if you wear them on concrete. I’d suggest getting a pair of trail shoes for an occasional change of pace. But you’ll find that they will get waterlogged as well. Keep an eye out for injury. I’m guessing you’re young (college age?). If so your body is pretty resiliant. As you get older you’ll find that cushier shoes will be a saner choice. my $0.02 Andy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any Ideas? Andrew Grenfell.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Morecroft – Coventry Coe – London/Sheffield Cram – Gateshead Elliot – Rotheram Foster – Hebburn Ovett – Brighton Bedford – London Where they live is irrelevant, it’s whats in their blood that makes ‘em what they are. Besides, its just like saying the USA haven’t got any good sprinters, because they all belong to different individual states. Scotland is no more a part of your england than afghanistan is our 51st state. Chiropractors rock man!

No there definately all English. I bet Prefontaine had more English blood in him than they’ve got scottish blood in them. Besides, Britain is pretty much united. I only get reminded that I’m English when I watch the Football. Other than that I’m British through and through. I think people in the states get the impression there is more of a divide because of the separate tourists boards. Were obviously going to sell ourselves as separate countries, that way we can scrounge more money out of gullible yanks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bill R.

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No there definately all English.

Dream on faerie boy. I bet Prefontaine had more English He was a fag. Besides, Britain is pretty much united

So, whens the last time you drove through there? Seems like a 10 to 1 ratio of Scots flags to one english. Chiropractors rock man! Bill R.

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of the separate tourists boards. Were obviously going to sell ourselves as separate countries, that way we can scrounge more money out of gullible yanks.

No we really do believe in Nessie, really we do… Chiropractors rock man! Bill R.

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Nah, it’s not strange its just hardcore. Maybe if Americans had the same training mentality, they would have had the abundance of distance talent that we have. Its no coincidence that we have half the population of the USA yet we have had Coe, Cram, Ovett, Elliot, Foster, Moorcroft, Bedford… to name but a few, and you only have ‘pre’ the so-called champion to keep blathering on about.

As Frank Horwill has pointed out, your list is past tense.  Now, if I mention Krummenacker, you have…….videos of Coe and Ovett.   THIS YEAR, Krum beat Wilson Kipketer (by 5 meters) to win the Indoor Worlds 800, was ranked #3 in the world at 800 last year by IAAF and ran the 5th fastest American 1500 of all time, and the country that produced Coe, Cram, and Ovett doesn’t have anybody who can compete with him. Sad, but true. Lyndon "Speed Kills…It kills those that don’t have it!"  –US Olympic Track Coach Brooks Johnson

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Keep an eye out for injury. I’m guessing you’re young (college age?). If so your body is pretty resiliant. As you get older you’ll find that cushier shoes will be a saner choice.

Correct my $0.02

Thanks.

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Keep an eye out for injury. I’m guessing you’re young (college age?). If so your body is pretty resiliant. As you get older you’ll find that cushier shoes will be a saner choice. Correct my $0.02 Thanks.

If you can wear them, why not?  I never did get used to them.  My calves hurt so much after every single x-c race I could hardly walk. That was probably due to the long spikes, and perhaps the lack of heal lift. I’ve run (soft) trails in road racing flats and like them much better than trainers or my 805s. The problem for me is getting TO the soft trails … Scott

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nah, it’s not strange its just hardcore. Maybe if Americans had the same training mentality, they would have had the abundance of distance talent that we have. Its no coincidence that we have half the population of the USA yet we have had Coe, Cram, Ovett, Elliot, Foster, Moorcroft, Bedford… to name but a few, and you only have ‘pre’ the so-called champion to keep blathering on about. As Frank Horwill has pointed out, your list is past tense.  Now, if I mention Krummenacker, you have…….videos of Coe and Ovett.   THIS YEAR, Krum beat Wilson Kipketer (by 5 meters) to win the Indoor Worlds 800, was ranked #3 in the world at 800 last year by IAAF and ran the 5th fastest American 1500 of all time, and the country that produced Coe, Cram, and Ovett doesn’t have anybody who can compete with him. Sad, but true. Lyndon "Speed Kills…It kills those that don’t have it!"  –US Olympic Track Coach Brooks Johnson

Well let’s wait and see the results of GB versus Russia and the USA shall we (in Glasgow). As for ‘Krum,’ he only just broke 1.44 for the 800m and the world indoors is a bit of a soft competition to win. But be sure, there is young talent waiting in the wings, that is just waiting to ripen.

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Keep an eye out for injury. I’m guessing you’re young (college age?). If so your body is pretty resiliant. As you get older you’ll find that cushier shoes will be a saner choice. Correct my $0.02 Thanks.

Just another caution, they are trip hazards. I guess you’ll be lifting your knees well, should do wonders for your form. Or you’ll spend lots of time picking yourself up off the trail. Andy

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Hi folks.I’m currently sufferering thru an achilles/inner ankle pain layoff.When I return to running in a couple of weeks I’d like to go back to my preference of rocky,hilly trails.Everything I read about achilles injuries says to avoid,hills,speedwork,and uneven ground.Problem is that’s the only type of running that I really enjoy.Anyone have any suggestions ?

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Hi folks.I’m currently sufferering thru an achilles/inner ankle pain layoff.When I return to running in a couple of weeks I’d like to go back to my preference of rocky,hilly trails.Everything I read about achilles injuries says to avoid,hills,speedwork,and uneven ground.Problem is that’s the only type of running that I really enjoy.Anyone have any suggestions ?

You know the answer – stay off the speed, hills, uneven terrain after you get back. Said differently, stay flat and even on disgusting roads if necessary for a few weeks and slowly add the fun stuff back in.  If you jump back too soon you’ll start to ponder the 1/2 way trip across the bridge. Patience! — Caveat Lector "the further you go outside, the further you go inside" – B. McKibben Doug Freese

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Hi folks.I’m currently sufferering thru an achilles/inner ankle pain layoff.When I return to running in a couple of weeks I’d like to go back to my preference of rocky,hilly trails.Everything I read about achilles injuries says to avoid,hills,speedwork,and uneven ground.Problem is that’s the only type of running that I really enjoy.Anyone have any suggestions ?

What’s missing here is a review of appropriate running shoes for your style. Either overpronation or oversupination place strain on the achilles tendon and often trigger achilles tendonitis.  Go to a real runing store and have someone watch you while you run, or look at the wear pattern on your shoes, and if the wear is toward the edges make appropriate choices.  You could need orthotics. Lyndon "Speed Kills…It kills those that don’t have it!"  –US Olympic Track Coach Brooks Johnson

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Hi folks.I’m currently sufferering thru an achilles/inner ankle pain layoff.When I return to running in a couple of weeks I’d like to go back to my preference of rocky,hilly trails.Everything I read about achilles injuries says to avoid,hills,speedwork,and uneven ground.Problem is that’s the only type of running that I really enjoy.Anyone have any suggestions ?

My sincere sympathies  I love hills and trails also (most aren’t rocky though) and work on hills a fair amount in my job (field ecologist), and running/walking flat only was not an acceptable long-term solution as someone suggested to me recently. A physical therapist did a gait analysis and identified some biomechanics issues in my toes and the way I overpronate, which can whiplash the achilles. He’ll be making some shoe suggestions, exercises, and probably orthotics, but won’t know until he’s had a chance to do a full evaluation. (He did a quicky free evaluation when I was in from field this summer, and we’ve been waiting for me to get finished with field work to get started.) Everything he has picked up on has been consistent with some niggling discomfort in my feet last winter so it makes sense. In the meantime, I’ve been doing some barefoot walking/running to strengthen feet (got brownie points with PT for doing this, but will probably need to dig out neoprene socks to continue this much longer in Alaska) even after I’ve started some normal running again. For a while this summer, it seemed like all my shoes (everyday walking and hiking included) were aggravating the minor AT, but discovered that barefoot walking was tolerable and actually beneficial, and eventually built it up to some running. And figured out which shoes wouldn’t aggravate feet. Some really good exercises for recovery/strengthening – NOT for the actual healing, at least in my case, since they may aggravate the inflammation – before running again are on http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0125.htm I’ve also found many foot exercises, like toe clenches, seem to help, but that may be because of my toe issues. And the usual achilles, calf, hamstring stretches help also – but not if the achilles is still inflamed / injured. My field work and general hiking, including hills, in a particular pair of hiking boots (fairly flexible and has a good notch for achilles) have also helped. If a hill got in the way with the little bit of running I did during the summer, I walked it or ran it sideways to keep the foot flat – lousy form, BUT *for me* it’s a reasonable compromise between insanity from totally flat. Actually, it’s the way my GP suggested walking when recovering from AT/PF 5 yrs ago when I was headed out for some hilly field work. I was being reasonably patient, but I couldn’t abstain completely and some gentle exercise helps recovery in my case. I also mountain biked some of the flatter (many are too steep for my mtb conditioning as it was this summer), but hilly trails to relieve some of the insanity. Good luck. Dot

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Hi! Allthough the local track (in excellent condition) is only 1/4 mile away from my home it was only yesterday that I actually went there for a run – perhaps high school nightmares of ‘dying’ while taking the Cooper’s test there have kept me away? I did few laps after my 30 minute run and running on the track felt nice, and the surface was kind of soft yet very comfortable to run on. I was wondering about shoes – if I decide to include track sessions to my running regurlarly should I nevertheless use the same shoes I run with on other surfaces (NB 1021) or does running on a track require special shoes? BTW, I’m not going to tell you how slow my 800 meters was, but it sure gave me some perspective on the times posted here (Roger 2k for example), not to mention world class performances on middle distances. ) Jarno — The woods are lovely, dark and deep But I have promises to keep And miles to go before I sleep And miles to go before I sleep.  - Robert Frost

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You don’t really need track spikes to practice on the track. The sprinters on our team practice in spikes, but it’s because they only know the track. All of the long distance squad runs their track workouts in their normal training shoes. IMO, unless you plan to race on the track, spikes aren’t really neccessary. –Vincent

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You don’t really need track spikes to practice on the track. The sprinters on our team practice in spikes, but it’s because they only know the track. All of the long distance squad runs their track workouts in their normal training shoes. IMO, unless you plan to race on the track, spikes aren’t really neccessary.

OK. The reason I asked was that a couple of years ago (before I started to run) I took a walking test on the same course (walk 2 k as fast as you can, and with HR at the end some kind of a condition measure is calculated with time, HR, gender, age and weight) and allthough I had been walking on other surfaces the track tartan gave me acute shinpain during and after the walk, and I wondered whether it had something to do with the surface and shoes rather than wrong form or technique doing fast walking. Jarno — The woods are lovely, dark and deep But I have promises to keep And miles to go before I sleep And miles to go before I sleep.  - Robert Frost

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Jarno, Track spikes really do two things for you.  Spikes provide extra traction and allow you to go faster in the turns (this is where they beat the flats badly), and (on an all-weather surface) spikes allow you to run fast even in the rain. If you are not intending to race on the track, you don’t need them. Track surfaces (mondo excepted) are usually softer than roads, and for this reason beginners and those with shin problems are often encouraged to run on tracks.  But track surfaces also have more traction even without spikes, and thus you are able to apply more force through the surface, and this may have been how you got into trouble before–but this is most likely to occur without spikes only on inclined surfaces (as you would have in a treadmill test) but not on track surfaces that you run on. You can run on a track surface in any running shoes you chose. Lyndon "Speed Kills.  It kills those that don’t have it" –Brooks Johnson

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jarno, Track spikes really do two things for you.  Spikes provide extra traction and allow you to go faster in the turns (this is where they beat the flats badly), and (on an all-weather surface) spikes allow you to run fast even in the rain. If you are not intending to race on the track, you don’t need them. Track surfaces (mondo excepted) are usually softer than roads, and for this reason beginners and those with shin problems are often encouraged to run on tracks.  But track surfaces also have more traction even without spikes, and thus you are able to apply more force through the surface, and this may have been how you got into trouble before–but this is most likely to occur without spikes only on inclined surfaces (as you would have in a treadmill test) but not on track surfaces that you run on. You can run on a track surface in any running shoes you chose. Lyndon

Thank you and the rest who replied! Jarno — The woods are lovely, dark and deep But I have promises to keep And miles to go before I sleep And miles to go before I sleep.  - Robert Frost

Response:

Hi! Allthough the local track (in excellent condition) is only 1/4 mile away from my home it was only yesterday that I actually went there for a run – perhaps high school nightmares of ‘dying’ while taking the Cooper’s test there have kept me away? I did few laps after my 30 minute run and running on the track felt nice, and the surface was kind of soft yet very comfortable to run on. I was wondering about shoes – if I decide to include track sessions to my running regurlarly should I nevertheless use the same shoes I run with on other surfaces (NB 1021) or does running on a track require special shoes? BTW, I’m not going to tell you how slow my 800 meters was, but it sure gave me some perspective on the times posted here (Roger 2k for example), not to mention world class performances on middle distances. ) Jarno — The woods are lovely, dark and deep But I have promises to keep And miles to go before I sleep And miles to go before I sleep.  - Robert Frost

Response:

You don’t really need track spikes to practice on the track. The sprinters on our team practice in spikes, but it’s because they only know the track. All of the long distance squad runs their track workouts in their normal training shoes. IMO, unless you plan to race on the track, spikes aren’t really neccessary. –Vincent

Response:

You don’t really need track spikes to practice on the track. The sprinters on our team practice in spikes, but it’s because they only know the track. All of the long distance squad runs their track workouts in their normal training shoes. IMO, unless you plan to race on the track, spikes aren’t really neccessary.

OK. The reason I asked was that a couple of years ago (before I started to run) I took a walking test on the same course (walk 2 k as fast as you can, and with HR at the end some kind of a condition measure is calculated with time, HR, gender, age and weight) and allthough I had been walking on other surfaces the track tartan gave me acute shinpain during and after the walk, and I wondered whether it had something to do with the surface and shoes rather than wrong form or technique doing fast walking. Jarno — The woods are lovely, dark and deep But I have promises to keep And miles to go before I sleep And miles to go before I sleep.  - Robert Frost

Response:

Jarno, Track spikes really do two things for you.  Spikes provide extra traction and allow you to go faster in the turns (this is where they beat the flats badly), and (on an all-weather surface) spikes allow you to run fast even in the rain. If you are not intending to race on the track, you don’t need them. Track surfaces (mondo excepted) are usually softer than roads, and for this reason beginners and those with shin problems are often encouraged to run on tracks.  But track surfaces also have more traction even without spikes, and thus you are able to apply more force through the surface, and this may have been how you got into trouble before–but this is most likely to occur without spikes only on inclined surfaces (as you would have in a treadmill test) but not on track surfaces that you run on. You can run on a track surface in any running shoes you chose. Lyndon "Speed Kills.  It kills those that don’t have it" –Brooks Johnson

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jarno, Track spikes really do two things for you.  Spikes provide extra traction and allow you to go faster in the turns (this is where they beat the flats badly), and (on an all-weather surface) spikes allow you to run fast even in the rain. If you are not intending to race on the track, you don’t need them. Track surfaces (mondo excepted) are usually softer than roads, and for this reason beginners and those with shin problems are often encouraged to run on tracks.  But track surfaces also have more traction even without spikes, and thus you are able to apply more force through the surface, and this may have been how you got into trouble before–but this is most likely to occur without spikes only on inclined surfaces (as you would have in a treadmill test) but not on track surfaces that you run on. You can run on a track surface in any running shoes you chose. Lyndon

Thank you and the rest who replied! Jarno — The woods are lovely, dark and deep But I have promises to keep And miles to go before I sleep And miles to go before I sleep.  - Robert Frost

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The figure I hear most often is 300-500 miles for a pair of running shoes – there’s nothing to suggest the brand and model you mention would be any different.

If it’s a true racing flat (as the name suggests), I would give them a lot less than what you are used to in a standard trainer. They are all nothing but blown rubber and no medial support, which translates into a worn-out shoe very quickly. As you know, I wear racing flats as a trainer, and I get 400 – 500km out of each pair (depending on season, etc). I’d say Steve Waco is about right, in my experience. — David (in Hamilton, Ont) "Bid me run, and I will strive with things impossible."                                    Shakespeare, Julius Caesar http://www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/home.html – – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was curious if anyone knew the typical mileage that you can get out of a brooks Hyperion racer shoe.  I’m thinking its maybe around 200 or 300 miles, much less then, maybe half as much as you would get out of a regular shoe. Appreciate your input

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The figure I hear most often is 300-500 miles for a pair of running shoes – there’s nothing to suggest the brand and model you mention would be any different. -S- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was curious if anyone knew the typical mileage that you can get out of a brooks Hyperion racer shoe.  I’m thinking its maybe around 200 or 300 miles, much less then, maybe half as much as you would get out of a regular shoe. Appreciate your input

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I was curious if anyone knew the typical mileage that you can get out of a brooks Hyperion racer shoe.  I’m thinking its maybe around 200 or 300 miles, much less then, maybe half as much as you would get out of a regular shoe. Appreciate your input

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Does anyone know a good website to purchase running shoes? Paricularly one that has a good selection and low prices? Thanks Paul

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Good selection, fair prices, sometimes great bargains: www.roadrunnersports.com Brian Jones

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know a good website to purchase running shoes? Paricularly one that has a good selection and low prices? Thanks Paul

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Paul, http://www.shoefits.com/ is very good for Saucony and New Balance prices. Just ordered my first pair from them. Tom — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know a good website to purchase running shoes? Paricularly one that has a good selection and low prices? Thanks

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Try www.holabirdsports.com. I buy two pairs of shoes at a time, a couple times a year. BoB

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Kelly’s Running Warehouse – www.kellysrunningwarehouse.com.  No frills but cheap shoes.

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you can find good deals on www.sportsbasement.com….on my shoes, Brooks Ariel, the other sites were $15-$20 higher. the sizes are limited online. if you live in San Francisco, the Sportsbasement store is the place to go – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know a good website to purchase running shoes? Paricularly one that has a good selection and low prices? Thanks Paul

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All try www.runningshoes.com  they have great prices, great customer services, and free shipping over $30.00.

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services, and free shipping over $30.00.

Holabird’s prices are much better. David Olsen

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What is there web site?

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What is there web site?

http://www.holabirdsports.com But there prices are elusive because they won’t list them (or let you order) online.

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http://www.holabirdsports.com But there prices are elusive because they won’t list them (or let you order) online.

Huh? I’ve been buying shoes online from them for years. I just bought another pair from them today.    -Phil

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