Run Run Away

Question:

I’m not sure which is more pathetic.  The fact that you have 400 miles on a pair of jogging shoes, or the fact that you KNOW you have 400 miles on them.

Response:

You’re supposed to wear them on your hands you dolt.

I’ll give it a try. Bill R.

Response:

A great reply, Lorne – you make a lot of sense J

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It warms me to know you care so much. Yes, I think shoes companies would love it if we replaced their products more frequently.  They are profit-motivated, evidenced by the labour they recruit to make the shoes and the outrageous markups they charge on their products. As for the "expert" wisdom (whatever that is), it’s for the very reason that contemporary thinking is NOT consistent on this subject that posts like this arise from time to time.  The guy selling me the shoe is non- credible – I doubt they understand human physiology that well to be able to provide appropriate advice.  The shoe company is in a conflict of interest – I don’t trust them. I’ve visited MDs, a physical therapist, a chiro, and sports therapist – all have views across the board.  I’ve employed a top-flight running coach – his advice was that he’d never pay $80-120 for a pair of shoes ever, he recommends "less shoe, the better" and scoffs at generalizations about shoe life.  Recent articles in Marathon & Beyond are thematically the same.  Joe Henderson (an expert? – no, just a runner) advises similarly. I believe the prevailing wisdom is "we’re all an experiment of one" wins out here. I appreciate your taking the time to add your advice to the mix. Interesting reading. LS Perspective is in order.  This is one person making one claim of mileage and imo the exception, not the rule.   The person could also being running a flat shoe for 400 miles as well.   Just because you can lace on the shoe and run in it does not mean it’s a wise or healthy choice to run in a shoe with twice the mileage as what the shoe company suggests you can expect. Where most people are misguided on this subject is they focus on the word of the shoe companies…when it’s the Podiatrist that will tell you 400-600 miles max. So now where’s the conspiracy?….you wanna tell me they Podiatrist are in bed with the shoe companies?   Quite the opposite.  Podiatrist have a vested interest in serving those with foot ailments and if their interest was motivated solely by $, they would love to see you run in shoes with 800, 900, 1000 + miles (they’ll ultimately make a lot more money). Don’t be foolish….listen to the wisdom of professionals that examine the feet, hear the problems, and have the shoe background knowledge of hundreds of patients year in, year out. In general….people want to seem to cut corners or stretch, or convince themeselves that their shoe is perfectly fine at 800 miles, etc….when in fact the damage from running in this shoe might not show up until years and years later. Don’t believe me?   Talk to the Podiatrist people. We’re runners….and I suspect most of us run in a decent proper running shoe. However it’s not hard for us to go to a popular running route (park, trail, etc.) and see the jogger who’s running in a pair of $15 KMart-Walmater specials right?   Few of us would dispute that runner is going to pay a price over time in making that a standard habit.  Yet when it comes to running in shoes with 800-900+ miles people ignore the wisdom of Podiatrist, the shoe manufacturer and in defiant ignorance are basically running in what were once $90 Asics and now $15 Blue Light Specials. But…..I’ve no doubt there are those wise runners out there that swear their knowledge exceeds that of medical professionals and shoe manufacturers.  Oh…I could post links of Podiatrist affirming what I am asserting here and no, they are not being paid by shoe companies.  And on that note….hey you that think there’s some vast right wing conspiracy….oops!….I mean some vast shoe string conspiracy taking place….Call New Balance….before you spend a penny on their $200 NB 2000 shoe….they’ll forwardly acknowledge you can expect about 400-500 miles at best out of that $200 shoe….the same you can expect out of their $100 and $80 shoe or any competitors $80 shoe.   In otherwords with more money you are not buying more mileage. No….more money in the shoe business buys you better supported mileage for the duration/lifetime of the shoe…however NB says don’t fool yourself….the lifetime of that shoe is 400-500 miles.  Again, they’ll openly disclose/concede this BEFORE you’ve chosen to spend your $200 on their shoe and while your comparing it to a competitors shoe at half the price.   Not very "conspiracy like". OK OK…..go ahead and tell me how you get 1000 plus miles out of your shoes all the time and miles 600-1000 are "quality" damage free miles……yeah right. Andrew…. I guess I get around 1,000 miles. Interesting – flies against all the "published" logic of the 500 mile limit.  I’ve never bought into that myself – seems to be more of an artificial limit established by the shoe companies to sell more product. — Lorne Sundby

Response:

I usually buy my shoes 6 or so months apart. When the new shoes feel like heaven compared to the old shoes I toss the old ones out. I do a group run from a running store once a week and I try a new pair every so often to see how the old ones are doing. And, you rotate shoes as well.  So do I – the most helpful aspect of that is that you never have to wear a totally new pair all the time – the break in period always seems to produce a blister for me.

I’m lucky that I don’t seem to need a break in period more than a run or two. At times in my running life I’ve had as many as 4 pair of shoes in rotation. Now I have 2 but I’m taking this year easy and not pounding out the miles. Andy

Response:

Perspective is in order.  This is one person making one claim of mileage and imo the exception, not the rule.   The person could also being running a flat shoe for 400 miles as well.   Just because you can lace on the shoe and run in it does not mean it’s a wise or healthy choice to run in a shoe with twice the mileage as what the shoe company suggests you can expect.

It seems to work for me. Where most people are misguided on this subject is they focus on the word of the shoe companies…when it’s the Podiatrist that will tell you 400-600 miles max. So now where’s the conspiracy?….you wanna tell me they Podiatrist are in bed with the shoe companies?   Quite the opposite.  Podiatrist have a vested interest in serving those with foot ailments and if their interest was motivated solely by $, they would love to see you run in shoes with 800, 900, 1000 + miles (they’ll ultimately make a lot more money).  

Money I’ve sent to shoe companies buying shoes probably around $5,000. Money I’ve sent to podiatrists for looking at my injuries $0. Time spent pondering conspracies 0. 20+ years of running, priceless. Don’t be foolish….listen to the wisdom of professionals that examine the feet, hear the problems, and have the shoe background knowledge of hundreds of patients year in, year out.  

Screw the professionals I listen to my body. The "professional" sees me for 10 maybe 20 minutes. I get to live with me. In general….people want to seem to cut corners or stretch, or convince themeselves that their shoe is perfectly fine at 800 miles, etc….when in fact the damage from running in this shoe might not show up until years and years later. Don’t believe me?   Talk to the Podiatrist people.

20+ years and tendonitis every now and then. We’re runners….and I suspect most of us run in a decent proper running shoe. However it’s not hard for us to go to a popular running route (park, trail, etc.) and see the jogger who’s running in a pair of $15 KMart-Walmater specials right?   Few of us would dispute that runner is going to pay a price over time in making that a standard habit.  Yet when it comes to running in shoes with 800-900+ miles people ignore the wisdom of Podiatrist, the shoe manufacturer and in defiant ignorance are basically running in what were once $90 Asics and now $15 Blue Light Specials.

Are you a podiatrist, do you know a podiatrist, are you related to a podiatrist? Have you been brainwashed by a podiatrist? But…..I’ve no doubt there are those wise runners out there that swear their knowledge exceeds that of medical professionals and shoe manufacturers.   Oh…I could post links of Podiatrist affirming what I am asserting here and no, they are not being paid by shoe companies.    And on that note….hey you that think there’s some vast right wing conspiracy….oops!….I mean some vast shoe string conspiracy taking place.

I think you are getting your conspiracies mixed up. Are the podiatrists against me or is it the shoe companies? …Call New Balance….before you spend a penny on their $200 NB 2000 shoe….they’ll forwardly acknowledge you can expect about 400-500 miles at best out of that $200 shoe….the same you can expect out of their $100 and $80 shoe or any competitors $80 shoe.   In otherwords with more money you are not buying more mileage.  No….more money in the shoe business buys you better supported mileage for the duration/lifetime of the shoe…however NB says don’t fool yourself….the lifetime of that shoe is 400-500 miles.  Again, they’ll openly disclose/concede this BEFORE you’ve chosen to spend your $200 on their shoe and while your comparing it to a competitors shoe at half the price.   Not very "conspiracy like".  

Once again, I don’t care what the "experts" say. My body tells me what I need to know. OK OK…..go ahead and tell me how you get 1000 plus miles out of your shoes all the time and miles 600-1000 are "quality" damage free miles……yeah right.  

I just went through my old logs and found that I started running in a pair of Air Pegasus May 20th 1989 and retired them Dec 31 1992. During 89 and 90 they were my regular shoes, I ran in them 2 or 3 times a week. By 92 I typically wore them once a week. Right now I have a pair of Air Pegasus and Gel Verdict. I’ll probably add another pair in June. Two pair is the minimum but I’m taking this year easy and not putting the miles. I’ll keep you posted on how they progress. I CAN GET 1000 QUALITY MILES OUT OF MY SHOES. Andy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Andrew…. I guess I get around 1,000 miles. Interesting – flies against all the "published" logic of the 500 mile limit.  I’ve never bought into that myself – seems to be more of an artificial limit established by the shoe companies to sell more product.

Response:

I usually buy my shoes 6 or so months apart. When the new shoes feel like heaven compared to the old shoes I toss the old ones out. I do a group run from a running store once a week and I try a new pair every so often to see how the old ones are doing.

And, you rotate shoes as well.  So do I – the most helpful aspect of that is that you never have to wear a totally new pair all the time – the break in period always seems to produce a blister for me. — Lorne Sundby

Response:

That is as long as I properly rotate my shoes. I tried this, but I found on the days when I switched the right shoe to the left foot it was pretty uncomfortable. Bill R.

You’re supposed to wear them on your hands you dolt. Andy

Response:

I guess I get around 1,000 miles. Interesting – flies against all the "published" logic of the 500 mile limit.  I’ve never bought into that myself – seems to be more of an artificial limit established by the shoe companies to sell more product. I’ve got a couple of NB852 – shoes with a ton of material in them – that are around 700 miles.  I’ve never had knee or joint pain to speak of that others have indicated signifies dead shoes.  Previous to these pair, I threw them out at 500 without figuring out why. What are the warning signs for you that the shoe is shot?

I usually buy my shoes 6 or so months apart. When the new shoes feel like heaven compared to the old shoes I toss the old ones out. I do a group run from a running store once a week and I try a new pair every so often to see how the old ones are doing. Andy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Lorne Sundby

Response:

Asics DS Trainers or DS Lytes for marathon and over + threshold and quicker running. DS Trainers gave me around 700km (450miles). Lytes about the same. Asics GT2070s for long runs and trail running. First pair are currently at 500km (310miles) and still very good. Adidas Neftengas for short races (up to HM) and short intervals on track. They’re now getting a little too "flat" for HMs (300km/200miles) but were bought dead cheap sooooo… Adidas XC Neptunes for cross country, they’ll probably last 10 years or more. Nike Skylons: I bought them but don’t like them (feels like running on sponges) so I’m just using them up on alternate days to give the others a rest; 320km/200miles and counting. Had some success with NB763s for general training but parts of the carbon outer sole broke free after only around 350km/220 miles. Probably not a "Made in UK" pair. After using a special rubber compound to protect the exposed midsole, I got 600km/370 miles out of them. Lifetime for all of them has been around 6 months, given the "rotation" of 3 or 4 pairs for different runs. Love Asics and some Adidas. May try NBs again. Will probably not buy Nikes again. [Male 44yo 1.8m/5'11" 68kg/152lbs]

Response:

It warms me to know you care so much. Yes, I think shoes companies would love it if we replaced their products more frequently.  They are profit-motivated, evidenced by the labour they recruit to make the shoes and the outrageous markups they charge on their products. As for the "expert" wisdom (whatever that is), it’s for the very reason that contemporary thinking is NOT consistent on this subject that posts like this arise from time to time.  The guy selling me the shoe is non- credible – I doubt they understand human physiology that well to be able to provide appropriate advice.  The shoe company is in a conflict of interest – I don’t trust them.   I’ve visited MDs, a physical therapist, a chiro, and sports therapist – all have views across the board.  I’ve employed a top-flight running coach – his advice was that he’d never pay $80-120 for a pair of shoes ever, he recommends "less shoe, the better" and scoffs at generalizations about shoe life.  Recent articles in Marathon & Beyond are thematically the same.  Joe Henderson (an expert? – no, just a runner) advises similarly. I believe the prevailing wisdom is "we’re all an experiment of one" wins out here. I appreciate your taking the time to add your advice to the mix.   Interesting reading. LS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Perspective is in order.  This is one person making one claim of mileage and imo the exception, not the rule.   The person could also being running a flat shoe for 400 miles as well.   Just because you can lace on the shoe and run in it does not mean it’s a wise or healthy choice to run in a shoe with twice the mileage as what the shoe company suggests you can expect.   Where most people are misguided on this subject is they focus on the word of the shoe companies…when it’s the Podiatrist that will tell you 400-600 miles max. So now where’s the conspiracy?….you wanna tell me they Podiatrist are in bed with the shoe companies?   Quite the opposite.  Podiatrist have a vested interest in serving those with foot ailments and if their interest was motivated solely by $, they would love to see you run in shoes with 800, 900, 1000 + miles (they’ll ultimately make a lot more money).   Don’t be foolish….listen to the wisdom of professionals that examine the feet, hear the problems, and have the shoe background knowledge of hundreds of patients year in, year out.   In general….people want to seem to cut corners or stretch, or convince themeselves that their shoe is perfectly fine at 800 miles, etc….when in fact the damage from running in this shoe might not show up until years and years later. Don’t believe me?   Talk to the Podiatrist people.   We’re runners….and I suspect most of us run in a decent proper running shoe. However it’s not hard for us to go to a popular running route (park, trail, etc.) and see the jogger who’s running in a pair of $15 KMart-Walmater specials right?   Few of us would dispute that runner is going to pay a price over time in making that a standard habit.  Yet when it comes to running in shoes with 800-900+ miles people ignore the wisdom of Podiatrist, the shoe manufacturer and in defiant ignorance are basically running in what were once $90 Asics and now $15 Blue Light Specials. But…..I’ve no doubt there are those wise runners out there that swear their knowledge exceeds that of medical professionals and shoe manufacturers.  Oh…I could post links of Podiatrist affirming what I am asserting here and no, they are not being paid by shoe companies.    And on that note….hey you that think there’s some vast right wing conspiracy….oops!….I mean some vast shoe string conspiracy taking place….Call New Balance….before you spend a penny on their $200 NB 2000 shoe….they’ll forwardly acknowledge you can expect about 400-500 miles at best out of that $200 shoe….the same you can expect out of their $100 and $80 shoe or any competitors $80 shoe.   In otherwords with more money you are not buying more mileage.   No….more money in the shoe business buys you better supported mileage for the duration/lifetime of the shoe…however NB says don’t fool yourself….the lifetime of that shoe is 400-500 miles.  Again, they’ll openly disclose/concede this BEFORE you’ve chosen to spend your $200 on their shoe and while your comparing it to a competitors shoe at half the price.   Not very "conspiracy like".   OK OK…..go ahead and tell me how you get 1000 plus miles out of your shoes all the time and miles 600-1000 are "quality" damage free miles……yeah right.   Andrew…. I guess I get around 1,000 miles. Interesting – flies against all the "published" logic of the 500 mile limit.  I’ve never bought into that myself – seems to be more of an artificial limit established by the shoe companies to sell more product.

– Lorne Sundby

Response:

Ascis DS Trainers all the time. training, racing, long runs, speed work. Do not last very long..

Response:

I guess I get around 1,000 miles.

Interesting – flies against all the "published" logic of the 500 mile limit.  I’ve never bought into that myself – seems to be more of an artificial limit established by the shoe companies to sell more product. I’ve got a couple of NB852 – shoes with a ton of material in them – that are around 700 miles.  I’ve never had knee or joint pain to speak of that others have indicated signifies dead shoes.  Previous to these pair, I threw them out at 500 without figuring out why. What are the warning signs for you that the shoe is shot? — Lorne Sundby

Response:

Perspective is in order.  This is one person making one claim of mileage and imo the exception, not the rule.   The person could also being running a flat shoe for 400 miles as well.   Just because you can lace on the shoe and run in it does not mean it’s a wise or healthy choice to run in a shoe with twice the mileage as what the shoe company suggests you can expect.   Where most people are misguided on this subject is they focus on the word of the shoe companies…when it’s the Podiatrist that will tell you 400-600 miles max. So now where’s the conspiracy?….you wanna tell me they Podiatrist are in bed with the shoe companies?   Quite the opposite.  Podiatrist have a vested interest in serving those with foot ailments and if their interest was motivated solely by $, they would love to see you run in shoes with 800, 900, 1000 + miles (they’ll ultimately make a lot more money).   Don’t be foolish….listen to the wisdom of professionals that examine the feet, hear the problems, and have the shoe background knowledge of hundreds of patients year in, year out.   In general….people want to seem to cut corners or stretch, or convince themeselves that their shoe is perfectly fine at 800 miles, etc….when in fact the damage from running in this shoe might not show up until years and years later. Don’t believe me?   Talk to the Podiatrist people.   We’re runners….and I suspect most of us run in a decent proper running shoe. However it’s not hard for us to go to a popular running route (park, trail, etc.) and see the jogger who’s running in a pair of $15 KMart-Walmater specials right?   Few of us would dispute that runner is going to pay a price over time in making that a standard habit.  Yet when it comes to running in shoes with 800-900+ miles people ignore the wisdom of Podiatrist, the shoe manufacturer and in defiant ignorance are basically running in what were once $90 Asics and now $15 Blue Light Specials. But…..I’ve no doubt there are those wise runners out there that swear their knowledge exceeds that of medical professionals and shoe manufacturers.   Oh…I could post links of Podiatrist affirming what I am asserting here and no, they are not being paid by shoe companies.    And on that note….hey you that think there’s some vast right wing conspiracy….oops!….I mean some vast shoe string conspiracy taking place….Call New Balance….before you spend a penny on their $200 NB 2000 shoe….they’ll forwardly acknowledge you can expect about 400-500 miles at best out of that $200 shoe….the same you can expect out of their $100 and $80 shoe or any competitors $80 shoe.   In otherwords with more money you are not buying more mileage.   No….more money in the shoe business buys you better supported mileage for the duration/lifetime of the shoe…however NB says don’t fool yourself….the lifetime of that shoe is 400-500 miles.  Again, they’ll openly disclose/concede this BEFORE you’ve chosen to spend your $200 on their shoe and while your comparing it to a competitors shoe at half the price.   Not very "conspiracy like".   OK OK…..go ahead and tell me how you get 1000 plus miles out of your shoes all the time and miles 600-1000 are "quality" damage free miles……yeah right.   Andrew…. I guess I get around 1,000 miles.

Interesting – flies against all the "published" logic of the 500 mile limit.  I’ve never bought into that myself – seems to be more of an artificial limit established by the shoe companies to sell more product.

Response:

Just for conversation sake….what running shoe do you wear and what do you get for mileage. I run in Mizuno Wave and generally get about 400 miles to a pair. -Dr

New Balance 805.  I got 500 miles from my last pair, but I think I let it go about 50 miles too many.  I’m kinda big.  6′ 5", 215 lbs. It’s a solid feeling shoe that does well on asphalt and mud.  Dries easily. Art — Connection closed. Systems Administrator    -   Software Engineering/CSBU

Response:

…and before the Nike bashers flame me, Nike shoes suit me (very narrow feet) and others don’t. My answer: Nike Pegasus 2000 (have had 6 pairs, 5th and 6th pairs good for a bit more) Nike Storm Pegasus (for off-road) Nike Pegasus 2002 1 pair but prefer the 2000 version Nike Streak (defunct) for road racing/track training Adidas Neptune XC spikes – only last a season as shrink when continually drying out after races Nike Zoom Kennedy (defunct) track spikes – need to get a new pair as falling apart after 3 seasons The Pegasus tend to be "good" for about 3-4 months so about 300 miles at a guess. Cheers Tim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just for conversation sake….what running shoe do you wear and what do you get for mileage. I run in Mizuno Wave and generally get about 400 miles to a pair. -Dr

Response:

Since there are 4-5 different Mizuno Wave models, which one(s) do you wear? Mizuno Wave Creation Fan. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just for conversation sake….what running shoe do you wear and what do you get for mileage. I run in Mizuno Wave and generally get about 400 miles to a pair. -Dr

Response:

new balance 878 and I get about 400 miles per pair (6′ and 180 lbs)

Response:

Wave Rider 6, brand new for 2003 -dr

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since there are 4-5 different Mizuno Wave models, which one(s) do you wear? Mizuno Wave Creation Fan. Just for conversation sake….what running shoe do you wear and what do you get for mileage. I run in Mizuno Wave and generally get about 400 miles to a pair. -Dr

Response:

Just for conversation sake….what running shoe do you wear and what do you get for mileage. I run in Mizuno Wave and generally get about 400 miles to a pair. -Dr

I’ve used Nike Air Pegasus and I can get 20 months of running out of them. That is as long as I properly rotate my shoes. I usually have 2 or 3 pair that I keep current. I guess I get around 1,000 miles. Andy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

…and before the Nike bashers flame me, Nike shoes suit me (very narrow feet) and others don’t.

Fair enuff! Narrow feet on lightweight runners seem to do ok in them. But they still suck in the quality dept. Bill R.

Response:

That is as long as I properly rotate my shoes.

I tried this, but I found on the days when I switched the right shoe to the left foot it was pretty uncomfortable. Bill R.

Response:

train in NB 1210 & 20s….300 Miles/pair, race in NC RC 150  75 Miles/pair. i’m about to start trianing in Nike  Air Streak Ekiden flats…as i was able to nab them for about $30/a pair on close out…bought 4 pairs.   Used to run in Brooks Trance….thought it was a fabulous shoe.   Saucony’s have always disappointed my foot….the 4D has zero flexibility….very stiff….and Webs seemed OK once broken in.  NB 1210 and 1220s struck me as broken in on day one. I’ve always wondered about Mizunos….never owned a pair…and I’ve always wondered if NB2000 runners felt after the 400-500 they’re spec’ed for…if they were worth the money…. Andrew….

Response:

Just for conversation sake….what running shoe do you wear and what do you get for mileage. I run in Mizuno Wave and generally get about 400 miles to a pair. -Dr

Response:

Just for conversation sake….what running shoe do you wear and what do you get for mileage. I run in Mizuno Wave and generally get about 400 miles to a pair.

Recently gota  pair of Saucony Omni Grid, the cushioning is terrible, I do not like these shoes at all. Previously had a pair of Saucony Grid Webs which were OK and after that a pair of N*kes (but don’t tell anyone, they were pretty good).

Response:

Just for conversation sake….what running shoe do you wear and what do you get for mileage. I run in Mizuno Wave and generally get about 400 miles to a pair.

I train in NB rc230’s and get about 500km out of them. I have been racing in Saucony Static Racer 2, but I am probably going to change to the 2003 Asics Gel-Magic Racer. They are a little lighter and feel more comfortable, although very expensive. cheers, — David (in Hamilton, ON) www.angelfire.com/nc/swstudio/2003.htm (my schedule) www.soundclick.com/allfalldown (my band’s website)

Response: