Run Run Away » asics running shoes

Help for the duck-footed woman

admin — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I have a very wide (D, maybe E) instep, and a very narrow heel.

I have very long, narrow feet both in the heel and toes 8.5AA. Asics running shoes fit very nicely. But I’m 5′5". If I was built like my feet, I’d be tall and thin….sigh… Martha

Response:

I wear D’s as well. Try Maryland Square. I’ve been buying from them for years, they have tons of styles of boots, shoes, sandals, and exercise shoes and they ship reliably. I find the trick with exercise shoes is run the laces through ALL the holes to snug the heel up properly. NO I don’t work for Maryland Square. http://www.marylandsquare.com/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have a very wide (D, maybe E) instep, and a very narrow heel. I have to seek very flexible shoes, or else my heel constantly slides in and out of the shoe while walking. The around-the-heel inserts they used to put in my shoes when I was a child never seemed to work in adulthood, they just caused even more rubbing as my heel slid in and out. For 20 some-odd years, I wore old-fashioned canvas Keds as a casual shoe, white ones at home, and the all-black including black rubber and grommets at work — until a few years ago, when they altered the "last" (form) when they added the terrycloth lining and called it "classic". Suddenly their WW was only as wide as the W used to be and half a size longer, and they didn’t fit right any more. With much searching in several shoes stores, trying to find a sneaker that was both wide enough and flexible enough, I finally found one, a leather Easy Spirit model, that fit the bill. They didn’t have as much arch support as the Keds had had, so I added a Dr Scholl’s arch support insert (men’s, women’s is too narrow for a wide shoe) for my flat duck-feet, and wore them very comfortably for the past 2 1/2 years, and they are pretty worn out. I’ve had difficulty finding this model again, as neither the model number nor name was on the tag in the tongue of the shoe, and this particular model was not shown on the Easy Spirit Website. I wasn’t able to find anything else in 3 or 4 shoe stores that was both wide enough and flexible enough for my foot to stay in it. Somebody suggested the Famous Footwear chain for wide shoes, and I went there last week. Much to my surprise, they had the exact model Easy Spirit that I was looking to replace – it’s the Strand. Unfortunately, I didn’t realize until I got home that the ones I was wearing were 2W width, and the two pair I brought home were just W. When I brought them back to the store for an exchange, they didn’t stock the 2W in the store, *but* they offered to send the two pair of 2W Strand from the warehouse to my home for no charge. I’m very happy, and now I know the model name in case I want to stock up on more pairs, just in case this one is discontinued. (The store said I’d be able to order them online in the future, but unfortunately, Easy Spirit brand doesn’t seem to be listed on the Famous Footwear website. But google turns up plenty of online shoe stores selling the Easy Spirit Strand model in the 2W width.) — "There’s a seeker born every minute."

Response:

I have a very wide (D, maybe E) instep, and a very narrow heel. I have to seek very flexible shoes, or else my heel constantly slides in and out of the shoe while walking. The around-the-heel inserts they used to put in my shoes when I was a child never seemed to work in adulthood, they just caused even more rubbing as my heel slid in and out. For 20 some-odd years, I wore old-fashioned canvas Keds as a casual shoe, white ones at home, and the all-black including black rubber and grommets at work — until a few years ago, when they altered the "last" (form) when they added the terrycloth lining and called it "classic". Suddenly their WW was only as wide as the W used to be and half a size longer, and they didn’t fit right any more. With much searching in several shoes stores, trying to find a sneaker that was both wide enough and flexible enough, I finally found one, a leather Easy Spirit model, that fit the bill. They didn’t have as much arch support as the Keds had had, so I added a Dr Scholl’s arch support insert (men’s, women’s is too narrow for a wide shoe) for my flat duck-feet, and wore them very comfortably for the past 2 1/2 years, and they are pretty worn out. I’ve had difficulty finding this model again, as neither the model number nor name was on the tag in the tongue of the shoe, and this particular model was not shown on the Easy Spirit Website. I wasn’t able to find anything else in 3 or 4 shoe stores that was both wide enough and flexible enough for my foot to stay in it. Somebody suggested the Famous Footwear chain for wide shoes, and I went there last week. Much to my surprise, they had the exact model Easy Spirit that I was looking to replace – it’s the Strand. Unfortunately, I didn’t realize until I got home that the ones I was wearing were 2W width, and the two pair I brought home were just W. When I brought them back to the store for an exchange, they didn’t stock the 2W in the store, *but* they offered to send the two pair of 2W Strand from the warehouse to my home for no charge. I’m very happy, and now I know the model name in case I want to stock up on more pairs, just in case this one is discontinued. (The store said I’d be able to order them online in the future, but unfortunately, Easy Spirit brand doesn’t seem to be listed on the Famous Footwear website. But google turns up plenty of online shoe stores selling the Easy Spirit Strand model in the 2W width.) — "There’s a seeker born every minute."

Response:

Quiz 934789o3847

admin — Sat, 05 Nov 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

>Finally finished "Under the Banner of Heaven", started "In a Sunburned >Country"

What’s "In a Sunburned Country" like? >Fuzzy tan fleece-lined boots

Oh no, not ugg boots?

Response:

MrWigglesworth wrote: >>Finally finished "Under the Banner of Heaven", started "In a Sunburned >>Country" > What’s "In a Sunburned Country" like?

It’s about Australia, and it’s funny. I’m only about 5 pages into it, so that’s all I can tell you. >>Fuzzy tan fleece-lined boots > Oh no, not ugg boots?

No, they’re "Paris Blues", with flowers embroidered on them. They are every bit as hideous and comfortable as Uggs, though. From what I hear. I also have a blue pair, which I like less well but wear more often because I don’t want to wear the tan ones out. — why? Morals is about having the right to do everything you’re strong enough to do, or not. – Frank, french philosophy student

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 In article <1131293960.700946.140…@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Virgo Cluster wrote: >Me either, but I like the one in this post. Did you catch the extra >"William P" I stuck in my previous post’s quote?

William P appears four times in this post. Did you write it with the first letter in each line or what? I did that once (though not with the string "William P") in a high school essay where I declared (to an unfortunately wider-than-intended audience) undying AFC lvu to some MOTOS. – — It is manipulative to not be manipulative. —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Please fetch my new key 804177F8 from hkp://wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net/ iD8DBQFDb33OwyMv24BBd/gRAoqAAKCfhJBodDg9s1f6p7Dd6g+CWXwwBQCfZsr3 Gt8I8hONZAr7bnORTtnOdVA= =4ZVi —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -meg wrote: > What’s with the Saturday night silence? Seriously, I can’t believe > that you’re all out. I’m sure not. > What are you doing tonight? > A) Playing computer games > B) Watching TV/movies > C) Reading > D) Homework > E) Internet crap > F) Working out > G) Coming in from an unsuccessful date > H) Still on a successful date, posting from bed > I) Nothing > J) (fill in the blank)

I was sleeping but now I’m not. > What are your plans for tomorrow?

Finish packing. > Read any good books lately?

Nope > If you’re on a full bus, do you give up your seat for: > A) An elderly or disabled person > B) Women who look like your mom > C) Someone of either gender carrying heavy stuff > D) All females > E) All males > F) Attractive MOTAS > G) (fill in the blank) > H) No one. > I) No one, and I put my bag on the seat next to me so no one can sit > there either. > J) Busses are for peasants. > K) I don’t leave home. If you leave home you must not be shy.

L I don’t ride the bust. It is too scary. I hace a car. > Sorry, I’m just curious about that one. I spend a lot of time on the > bus right now and it’s interesting to see who does what. > What do your favorite shoes look like?

green light up thongs. > Who is the most absurdly bored person on this froup?

varies —

Response:

J) Sleeping > What are your plans for tomorrow?

Sleeping > Read any good books lately?

Finally finished "Under the Banner of Heaven", started "In a Sunburned Country" > If you’re on a full bus, do you give up your seat for: > A) An elderly or disabled person > B) Women who look like your mom > C) Someone of either gender carrying heavy stuff > D) All females > E) All males > F) Attractive MOTAS > G) (fill in the blank) > H) No one. > I) No one, and I put my bag on the seat next to me so no one can sit > there either. > J) Busses are for peasants. > K) I don’t leave home. If you leave home you must not be shy.

A), C), K) and G) People who look carsick. > Sorry, I’m just curious about that one. I spend a lot of time on the > bus right now and it’s interesting to see who does what. > What do your favorite shoes look like?

Fuzzy tan fleece-lined boots > Who is the most absurdly bored person on this froup?

Troll — why? Morals is about having the right to do everything you’re strong enough to do, or not. – Frank, french philosophy student

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 In article <1131251221.457530.124…@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> meg wrote: >What’s with the Saturday night silence? Seriously, I can’t believe >that you’re all out. I’m sure not.

I was at home. >What are you doing tonight?

"Today" (Saturday) I was messing around in the garden, planting five chilli plants out from their shared pot, to free them from their tangled roots. >B) Watching TV/movies

Probably, somewhere along the line. >C) Reading

Reading. A comparison between CANDU and Chernobyl. Also the newspaper, and a printed copy of the Wikipedia article "Propaganda". >E) Internet crap

Printed on dead trees… >F) Working out

Walking the dog. >What are your plans for tomorrow? >Read any good books lately?

No. I get distracted too easily and it took me a few weeks of weekends to read dead-treeized Wikipedia articles on Chernobyl and nuclear weapon design. I think I squeezed in an article on event horizons, but that’s a very short one. >If you’re on a full bus, do you give up your seat for:

Z) Nobody. I am Rosa Parks. Y) Anyone. I am a obsequious nice guy. I’d give up my seat apologetically to a tattooed Jim Summers certified Bad Boy. X) Nobody. I am recovering. >F) Attractive MOTAS

Two years ago while I was in Germany the bus was filling up and I took my suitcase onto my lap to make space for whoever it would be who happened to take it. It turned out to bu such a (very) attractive MOTOS. Gosh, I must go to Ramstadt again… now I just need an excuse. >J) Busses are for peasants.

Buses are for profligate wasters. I walk barefoot uphill both ways to save a penny! >What do your favorite shoes look like?

I’m a straight guy. I don’t look at shoes. I wear my hiking boots every day. >Who is the most absurdly bored person on this froup?

Strangely, I’m hardly ever bored, despite the relative lack of a "life". – — A PC without Windows is like ice cream without ketchup. —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Please fetch my new key 804177F8 from hkp://wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net/ iD8DBQFDb3XpwyMv24BBd/gRAuABAKCbZp/JG9YSMPYarbq3QxgwA/bF3wCgpcrP rOoKbTPs1txp2AC1FBnvh4Y= =YZVj —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Response:

meg wrote: > LisatheSequel wrote: >>meg wrote: >>>What are your plans for tomorrow? >>Read newsgroup. Take shower. Go to Holland, shop. Clean the living >>room. Make food in between at 3-4 hour intervals. Eat said food. >>Eventually sleep. > I hate going to Holland on the weekends, it’s always so crowded. I > usually just go to Bulgaria.

Your reply made me laugh because Holland on the weekends *IS* crowded. German shops are closed on Sundays except for gas stations and restaurants and such. If we don’t get our shopping done on Saturday we have to drive into (technically) The Netherlands to stock up, and every other German person who didn’t get to do *their* shopping on Saturday is there too. The lines are unbelievable. Sadly, Bulgaria isn’t a possibility. :) Belgium and France would be, but in Belgium I always get sidetracked by the chocolate and cool leather furniture. In France the food is great but the drive is a commitment. >>>Read any good books lately? >>Yes.

"Extra Virgin" and "Ripe for the Picking" by Annie Hawes, true story and sequel about an Englishwoman who goes to work in the Italian Riviera for a change of scenery and ends up staying forever. The book is a hilarious running commentary on culture shock and of course I identify with this. I’ve read them both about 10 times each in the past two years. I just looked on Amazon and she’s got a new one out in the series titled "Journey to the South". A couple nights ago I started Cryptonomicon and find it very hard to get interested in. Neal Stephenson’s writing style is taking some getting used to, and the fact it’s about 900 pages is a bit intimidating. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Glad to hear it. >>>If you’re on a full bus, do you give up your seat for: >>A) An elderly or disabled person >>Yes. >>B) Women who look like your mom >>Heck no. She’s in better shape than I am. > Yeah most people wouldn’t do this one I think. The only reason I added > that one is because there’s this guy on my bus around my age who always > gives his seat up to a couple of middle aged ladies who come on after > he does.

This poor man never gets to sit down? :-/ Seems like he’d wise up, jog a couple blocks down and get on *after* they do. That way when he gets on they’re already seated. I had the sweetest thing happen to me the other day. We finally sold our pup and I was determined to buy a cockatiel. It was a lovely day so we walked to town instead of driving. We ended up taking the bus back with the bird in a bag and this HUGE bird cage tied to the baby’s stroller with my husband carrying the baby. We got on in the middle and he went up front to buy our tickets. One of the elderly ladies who everyone is always giving up their seats for had a portable folding seat which she whisked out and unfolded for the baby to sit in. So I didn’t have to balance the baby and cage, and he got to sit for the couple block ride. I thought that was very sweet of her considering how crowded the bus was and how little space she had to maneuver. Right after the World Trade Center was hit I was riding the bus to my language class and this little old woman who looked like she was about 90 years old saw how upset I was and got up and gave me her special reserved seat in the front. Little acts of kindness from strangers like that always touch me right to the bone. >>G) >>Disheveled people with babies and small children. > What about generally disheveled people with no babies? I definitely fit > in this category. In the mornings I’m falling all over the place and > bumping into people and dropping my bags (and on one memorable occasion > getting stuck in the back door of the bus)

*LOL* :D *ahem* No. After a quick visual inspection to determine they’re not mentally challenged and otherwise physically healthy, generally not. >>J) Busses are for peasants. >>YES. Unfortunately I am a peasant. > Me too. Want to start an uprising together?

Yes. Let’s threaten the government by causing general unrest until they invent single rider busses with an extra-wide fluffy seat. I am prepared to overturn as many park trash cans and throw down as many pieces of half-chewed gum on the sidewalk as I can until this becomes a reality. Since you’re the more creative of us two, I’ll let you phone in our demands. >>>What do your favorite shoes look like? >>I don’t have any favorite shoes right now. I intend to get some, >>though. I do have a favorite purse. Does that count? Does it count >>even if I don’t own it yet? > Purse counts. What does it look like?

I don’t own it yet but if I have my way I will soon. It’s an Aigner burgundy leather hobo bag like I had when I wuz a chile. Not an unrealistically expensive wish, but more extravagant than usual since I don’t even carry a purse and probably wouldn’t even after I bought it. The plan is to get it out and pet it every now and then. Or maybe hang it on a doorknob so I can admire it from afar. Yeah, doorknob decoration sounds good.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -William P wrote: > "meg" wrote in news:1131251221.457530.124050 > @g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: >>What’s with the Saturday night silence? Seriously, I can’t believe >>that you’re all out. I’m sure not. >>What are you doing tonight? >>A) Playing computer games > I’ve been playing a ton and I mean a ton of Age of Empires 3. 13 year > olds are handing me my ass online with frequency and intensity. >>B) Watching TV/movies >>C) Reading >>D) Homework >>E) Internet crap >>F) Working out >>G) Coming in from an unsuccessful date >>H) Still on a successful date, posting from bed >>I) Nothing >>J) (fill in the blank) >>What are your plans for tomorrow? > See a movie with my gf probably. >>Read any good books lately? > I finished Cryptonomicon after literally a couple years putting off > reading it. It was okay but I wouldn’t call it a page turner.

I haven’t even turned the first page after buying it from a second hand store… must be well over a year and a half ago. I’m also procrastinating reading a book about procrastination that I ordered a little more than a year ago (but that one I did start –barely). [snip] August Pamplona — Do not weep for her. She’s in the sky now, drinking with Jesus. – Antares on a.s.s. a.a. # 1811 apatriot #20 Eater of smut Proud member of the reality-based community. The address in this message’s ‘From’ field, in accordance with individual.net’s TOS, is real. However, almost all messages reaching this address are deleted without human intervention. In other words, if you e-mail me there, I will not receive your message. To make sure that e-mail messages actually reach me, make sure that my e-mail address is not hot.

Response:

I watched four back-to-back episodes of La Femme Nikita that I had ordered on the internet. > What are your plans for tomorrow?

Today, I played chess online. I also read a book, went shopping, and wasted lots of time surfing the web. > Read any good books lately?

"The Secret Life of Bees," and "The Concise Book of Lying." > If you’re on a full bus, do you give up your seat for: > A) An elderly or disabled person > B) Women who look like your mom > C) Someone of either gender carrying heavy stuff > D) All females > E) All males > F) Attractive MOTAS > G) (fill in the blank) > H) No one. > I) No one, and I put my bag on the seat next to me so no one can sit > there either. > J) Busses are for peasants. > K) I don’t leave home. If you leave home you must not be shy.

The only person I’d give up my seat for would be a seriously crippled/elderly person. Otherwise, it would just fall into that category of things I *just don’t do* – like hitting on women in the street, chatting up strangers, etc. Basically anything that involves thrusting myself into a stranger’s life. It would never even occur to me to give up my seat to an attractive MOTOS. Or rather, it might *occur* to me, but then I’d immediately laugh at myself for backsliding into Nice Guyhood. I sometimes remember with amusement the days when I actually believed that such ingratiating behavior would get you anywhere with people, let alone women. > Sorry, I’m just curious about that one. I spend a lot of time on the > bus right now and it’s interesting to see who does what. > What do your favorite shoes look like?

Shoes are irrelevant. > Who is the most absurdly bored person on this froup?

I’m pretty bored. Not sure about my ranking in the group.

Response:

Pikabu wrote: > meg wrote: > > What’s with the Saturday night silence? Seriously, I can’t believe > > that you’re all out. I’m sure not. > > What are you doing tonight? > Im picking crabs out of my pussy.

Mizuno Rider, Creation, Nirvana

admin — Thu, 30 Sep 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Am looking for a second pair of choos. In the neutral arena. I stand 6′, weigh just under 170, currently at 5 days/wk for 16 miles with my goal for a month or two out to be at a consistent 20mpw. I’ll likely stay there for a while as I work on getting a bit faster. I’m currently in a pair of Asics Landreth that are a couple weeks old and they seem to be OK. I’m thinking I’d like to try a little more cushioning and maybe something in the Mizuno line. The Mizuno site, the Roadrunner site and a couple of reviews I’ve read don’t seem to nail down how the Nirvana fits into the lineup. Or when one might be recommended to go with the Rider over the Creation or vice versa. Other than ordering all three and then returning two, any guidance in this?

Response:

I’m currently in a pair of Asics Landreth that are a couple weeks old and they seem to be OK. I’m thinking I’d like to try a little more cushioning and maybe something in the Mizuno line. The Mizuno site, the Roadrunner site and a couple of reviews I’ve read don’t seem to nail down how the Nirvana fits into the lineup.

The rider isn’t going to have much more cushioning than the landreth — in fact it’s a similar shoe from what I know of the landreth (it’s certainly got less heel cushioning than the Asics Cumulus or Nimbus). The rider is on the light end of the spectrum, solid forefoot cushioning but not as much on the heels. So you’re probably better off with the wave creation. Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

Nirvana is either a stability or MC shoe. Or when one might be recommended to go with the Rider over the Creation or vice versa. Other than ordering all three and then returning two, any guidance in this? The rider isn’t going to have much more cushioning than the landreth — in fact it’s a similar shoe from what I know of the landreth (it’s certainly got less heel cushioning than the Asics Cumulus or Nimbus). The rider is on the light end of the spectrum, solid forefoot cushioning but not as much on the heels. So you’re probably better off with the wave creation.

Thank you Donovan – I was hoping you’d offer your Mizuno experience.

Response:

I switched from the Creation to the Rider without really noticing a difference, beside the price drop and lower weight. However, I’m around 155. The Creation is definitely a sturdier shoe and might be a better choice until you get a few more miles of experience. Love the Mizuno fit. — Wake

Response:

<< Wake From the dead, or waves ripple? O, gee, that tickles… _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!

Response:

<< nail down how the Nirvana fits into the lineup. Or when one might be recommended to go with the Rider over the Creation or vice versa Recto, Or verso? Anal- Ize intent. Pay the rent. That waht you meant? *Smile* How many miles Up? 7-Up, Dr. Pepper, or A Mountain Dew? Morning Wood — dappled moisture. From all, I’m red. Plant a garden of verse In that flowering bed. _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!

Response:

From the dead

Jerry Garcia; My only Dad; And millions unknown. — The problem in this country is that the bar is constantly being lowered; we then cheer clearing the bar as a great accomplishment and achievment.

Response:

I am not a shoe expert, but I absolutely love my Creations. Not so good for the dirt/gravel trails I use sometimes (no traction), but on roads, they’re the bomb. Regards, H.

Response:

The Nirvana won’t be available until after Oct. 15 and it’s going to be Mizuno’s answer to the Asics Kayano. I’ve been running in a pair since the beginning of summer and I’d call it a highly cushioned shoe with medium medial support. Definitely not a motion control shoe just by virtue of it’s shape and flexibility. Another Mizuno shoe you might want to try is the Mustang. It has the same midsole height of the Creation but with a firmer arch. Jim Johnson

Response:

Yeah, I knew the Nirvana wouldn’t be available for a couple weeks – I was looking for just the insider info you gave. Thanks. I bought a pair of Creations a week ago and have put a tad over 13 miles on them. They feel very good and I don’t think I need anything with more support or structure. (I tried some Nike Triax 8 and Asics 1090’s a few weeks back and I felt twinges of pain/discomfort towards the inside of my right ankle and up to the inside of my right knee. I also have a newish pair of Asics Landreths and neither they nor the Creations cause this discomfort. The Landreths seem to have a wider toe area and are definitely lighter in weight than the Creations but otherwise they both seem to fit my foot and gait.) Something interesting the other day – I also picked up a pair of Wright CoolMesh socks to check out in place of my JC Penney white cotton crews I wear 100% of the time. I’d never felt a cooling breeze *through* a shoe before – very different and a pleasant surprise.

Response:

I am not a shoe expert, but I absolutely love my Creations. Not so good for the dirt/gravel trails I use sometimes (no traction), but on roads, they’re the bomb.

Thanks for the input. The pair I just got seem to be just right for me and I very well may come to the same opinion as you.

Response:

<< The pair I just got seem to be just right for me and I very well may come to the same opinion as you. What pair? _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!

Response:

<< I use sometimes (no traction), but on roads, they’re the bomb.

Thanks for the input. A track… _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!

Response:

x I am not a shoe expert, but I absolutely love my Creations. Not so good for the dirt/gravel trails I use sometimes (no traction), but on roads, they’re the bomb. ____ care for a countering opinion? it’s a lousy shoe that is assisting you in becoming a less efficient and worse runner. "bomb" is right and they should be detonated asap! mizuno’s patent 4561195 they so proudly emboss on that plastic wave gimmick on that model extends from the heel to the toe embedded within the soles the length of the entire shoe. as a consequence, the shoe is not flexible, it’s very engineering/design counters a flexible shoe in the forefoot. if you’re serious about running and want to become the best runner you can be, if you want to run for a lifetime (as long as you can)…you want to eventually become a ball/toe striker. you’ll be a faster runner, you’ll have a longer running career, you’ll reduce impact on your physical structure. The engineering in the Creation works against/counters those seeking to strike on the balls of their feet. The shoe is designed to stay stiff (and does a good job in staying stiff). You actually have to fight the shoe, to ball strike in Creations (due to the single plastic crap running the length of the shoe). *notice* Mizuno does not design their other models with this same plastic technology running the entire length of the shoe. that Mizuno technology extends from the heel to the arch….allowing the forefoot to be flexible. i have nothing but praises for the Maverick, I have a brand new pair of Mustangs I have yet to even lace up sitting right here with me. IMO Creations have no business being characterized as a "cushion" running shoe and belong in the Motion Control category right next to Beast and all the other "bricks" with laces you can buy. It took me approx. 75-85 miles before I even got Creations broken in. They’re like SUVs of running shoes….inefficient, clumsy with a huge-o-mongous platform they’re built on incredibly wider than any other shoe on the market, including all the motion control anchors out there. I’m looking at these SOB’s right now…and after 400 mile they still are not flexible. I’ve not ran in them in a year and use them as walk around shoe now. However I would not reccommend any level of runner buy a shoe that prevents you from ultimately migrating to becoming better as a runner….and that’s what Creations do. There are other cushion shoes out there that have flexibility in the forefoot…hell…Mizuno makes other models that serve you better (even you hoofers)… Not a shoe pro/expert….but I’ve bought a lot of running shoes, I am hard on shoes, I buy’em all…NB/Asics/Miz, even Saucs, and I will buy Nikes only in flats and Adiddas for trails.

Response:

There are other cushion shoes out there that have flexibility in the forefoot…hell…Mizuno makes other models that serve you better (even you hoofers)…

Well after 20 miles in Creations and in comparison to 15 miles on a pair of Riders, I chose the Riders. They just fit better – it seemed as though I could "feel" the arch structure in the Creations which had the effect of making my arches sore just ahead of my heel. The Riders are noticeably lighter, more flexible and just feel cushier. The only thing I wish the Riders had from the Creation is the very open mesh material over the toes. I could actually feel a cooling breeze wearing the Creations but the Riders don’t have that level of ventilation. As an aside, RRS indicates to buy the Riders at a full size over one’s normal shoe size (and the Creations 1/2 size over). I’m thinking this extra 1/2 for the Riders is unnecessary – IOW, just go 1/2 over, not 1 over. — "To know the world intimately is the beginning of caring." – Ann Hayman Zwinger

Response:

Of Fitting New Shoes

admin — Wed, 15 Sep 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

and was wondering if gels or other padding was any better.

WAY better! Anyways, after ~150 miles on them, I’m starting to notice some hip discomfort & some tenseness in my lower legs. It’s feeling as if there’s a lack of cushioning in the shoes as my foot hits the ground. Thus, I’m wondering what the Asic users are typically getting in their shoe life.

I get 1 to 2 years from a pair of 2090’s, at about 65 mpw. Or, perhaps more generally, what kind of mileage are you putting on your shoes? From above, 2000 miles in 8 shoes comes to about 250 miles each. Is that about what I should expect?

Maybe for you. I haven’t been keeping track for very long, but looking back, it appears that one Nike got about 500 miles

"looking back" indicates that possibly you were doing lower mileage then, and that’s why they lasted longer? Anyways that’s a fluke, no nikes I ever had outlasted, or even came CLOSE to Asics for longevity. while the next had to be returned after <100, and it’s replacement has failed after ~200 (I’ll have to call Nike again).

Now THAT is more typical of Nikes. Why even consider going back? I wouldn’t. As I stated, I’m at about 160 miles with the Gel1090s, and they seem to be at the replacement stage. I had hoped the gels would be a little better than the air bladders, but perhaps they aren’t.

They are. Look for other causes. Did you ramp up your mileage lately? I doubt the shoes have failed at this stage.

Response:

Maybe this shoe just isn’t for you. Are you a runner that needs a stability shoe. The 1090s are in that category. If you are not in need of a stablility shoe, then that could also be part of your problem with these shoes

I meant to add a similar comment to my post.

Response:

Unfortunately, I need to make these shoes work for at least a while longer.

Why? Can’t you return them? You’d be better off not running at all then running in the wrong shoes. You could do permanent damage. I’ve seen gel insoles at the local Nike store (well, ok, they do have 4 or 5 non-Nikes).

Then go with anything but nikes, you’ll get more shoe for your money with Asics, or just about any other brand. Nikes are overpriced GARBAGE!

Response:

"Cushioned" shoes will be considered "Neutral" shoes. Asic’s best selling neutral shoe has traditionally been the Cumulus (although the new Nimbus has been a huge hit for them this summer). Nike’s best selling neutral shoe has traditionally been the Pegasus. This particular category gets blurred because some of the "Lightweight" shoes made by these companies could also be considered neutral (ex. for Nike the Skylon and new Zoom Miler).

Thank you Jim. From your’s and Phil’s replies, I finally had the brainstorm of looking for Asics website to read up on their lineup. From what I’ve read and heard, I do indeed have a neutral foot. I found a pair of the Cumulus and last year’s Nimbus at a G.I. Joe’s. Both felt pretty good though I preferred the Cumulus – plus the extra cost of the Nimbus is a deterrent. I may try the Landreth too if I can find them… I returned the Nikes, which I believe caused some ankle and knee pain for about 12 hours after a short 4 mile run, to running store #1. That store was out of my size in the Asics, so will return the 1090s to the second store and see if they have the other Asics. If not I’ll go to either Roadrunner or return to the sports/auto store where I found the one pair of Cumulus. Thanks again.

Response:

i do, however, find that i have problems if i change shoes. apparently my muscles adapt and any change will cause knee problems, due to the slight shift in body weight, resulting from any pronation change in shoe.

I have the same problem when I change shoes.

Response:

Anyways, I picked up a pair of Gel 1090s last month. No particular reason. It was discounted, and the end price was very similar to the discounted price I paid on the Nikes they were replacing. I’m getting a little tired of deflating air bags, and was wondering if gels or other padding was any better. Anyways, after ~150 miles on them, I’m starting to notice some hip discomfort & some tenseness in my lower legs. It’s feeling as if there’s a lack of cushioning in the shoes as my foot hits the ground. Thus, I’m wondering what the Asic users are typically getting in their shoe life. Or, perhaps more generally, what kind of mileage are you putting on your shoes? From above, 2000 miles in 8 shoes comes to about 250 miles each. Is that about what I should expect?

Yes, but I rotate about 3 or 4 shoes at any given time. I usually get around 400 to 500 miles in a pair of shoes. At 400 miles I start thinking about replacing them. Sometimes it’s difficult to tell if a shoe is too worn to wear for running. You will see some visible wear on the sole depending on your running style, but a lot of the wear will not be visible because it is due to recuced cushioning in the midsole (EVA). Obviously with as many shoes as I have I could probably go for a while without buying any more shoes. At least this is what my wife hopes. I haven’t been keeping track for very long, but looking back, it appears that one Nike got about 500 miles, while the next had to be returned after <100, and it’s replacement has failed after ~200 (I’ll have to call Nike again). As I stated, I’m at about 160 miles with the Gel1090s, and they seem to be at the replacement stage. I had hoped the gels would be a little better than the air bladders, but perhaps they aren’t.

The 1090s worked for me. They are still wearing fine with nearly 400 miles on them. Maybe this shoe just isn’t for you. Are you a runner that needs a stability shoe. The 1090s are in that category. If you are not in need of a stablility shoe, then that could also be part of your problem with these shoes Phil M. — "Learn from the mistakes of others. You can’t live long enough to make them all yourself."

Shoes and Questions About Supination

admin — Tue, 07 Sep 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Here’s what I observe: –My legs are slightly bowed. –I seem to run on the outside of my feet, like the heel strikes on the outside, then I follow through with the outside of the middle of my foot and little toe –My feet are not at all splayed in running or walking, and they are not flat –I have a sharp pain on the outside of one foot, and also on the same side in my knee and pelvis/hip I don’t know if this all amounts to being a supinator, under pronator, or what (there seems to be some disagreement with the interaction of the kind of thing I describe, but Bob S.’s post seems to have disappeared on me), but I hope the doc can help me figure it out!!

First, I’m a bit out of my depth here, and Bob certainly seems to be considerably more familiar with this topic than I am. The above sounds like underpronation to me — your feet touch down on the outer heel (normal), but then they don’t roll inward, so instead of absorbing the impact on the middle of the ball of the foot (most people touch in the middle of the ball, then to their big toe), you put a lot of stress on the outside of your forefoot, hence the foot pain (and problems further up) I agree that this needs to be looked at closely by someone who knows what they’re doing, and may require treatment (for example, Bob recommended orthotics). I’d recommend going to see a podiatrist if you haven’t already. Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

Seems logical for someone with splayed feet. Supinators are very rare. There are very few (maybe none ?) true "supinators". If your feet go straight ahead, I doubt you’re a supinator (almost impossible unless you’re pigeon-toed — opposite of splayed feet)

Huh? Donovan, supinating has nothing to do with being "pigeon-toed"! cheers, — David (in Hamilton ON) www.absolutelyaccurate.com www.allfalldown.org

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you have splayed feet ? Cheers, Splayed? No, not at all they go straight ahead. What effect would splayed feet have? They cause the outside of your shoes to wear. Another thing is that my legs are kind of bowed, which seems logical for a supinator, right? Seems logical for someone with splayed feet. Supinators are very rare. There are very few (maybe none ?) true "supinators". If your feet go straight ahead, I doubt you’re a supinator (almost impossible unless you’re pigeon-toed — opposite of splayed feet) Cheers,

Response:

You may be well served to seek professional help to increase midtarsal mobility and improve the load distribution profile in your feet, especially given your dimensions and requirements. A manual therapist can be of service to this end. Additionally, a running coach schooled in training efficiency of movement may also be valuable. Ozzie may be of help in tracking down these poeple. Good luck.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When the dude set my shoes up on the counter, they definitely seemed to lean out. They damn sure weren’t neutral and didn’t lean in. My feet are a little splayed, but they’re not like a ballerina at first position or whatever they call it. I do have high, rigid arches. On the bulkier, squishier shoe deal…I forgot to mention in my previous posts that I’m 6′2" and 200 lbs., so they always love to put me in the mondo cushioning shoes which generally is fine by me. I also have a pair of Landreths that I use for short runs (under 5 miles), but the pain occurs equally with either shoe. I have only slightly splayed feet. I too, thought this was my problem in the beginning. I went to the running store today and was told by the dudes there that my shoes are fine, but I am definitely a mild supinator. I was further told the Nimbus has a curved last. I have never seen a "supinator". You may be an "under pronator" with rigid arches, but I doubt you’re a "supinator", unless you have splayed feet. The nimbus is a cushion shoe, should be OK for you, though it’s one of the bulkier squishier shoes out there. Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

A couple of biomechanical details need to be cleared up here. I disagree with the statement that "supinators are very rare…unless you’re pigeon-toed." Supination is a NATURAL motion of the subtalar joint, which in a closed chain environment involves calcaneal inversion, talar dorsiflexion and abduction, midfoot adduction and plantarflexion, and TIBIAL EXTERNAL ROTATION. Supinators, as a label, are people who spend more time in supination than normal during stance phase of gait, thus creating an unfavorable environment for load distribution throughout the foot. Supination is undertaken in the NORMAL biomechanics of gait during Preswing and prior to Toe Off. An "under pronator" will spend less time pronating and more time supinating during this phase. One would have to embody severe, pathological mechanics to avoid any supination time at all. For these populations, orthotic devices are not only recommended but a requisite for any weight bearing activities. It then begs the question can a person be an "under pronator" and an under supinator at the same time? The consequences of such dysfunction on weight bearing movement are disastrous in the long term, and THAT I would qualify as being a more rare trait. It appears that the initial poster of this thread does not fall into this category. Secondly, "bow-leggedness" or, technically, genu varus is accompanied by TIBIAL INTERNAL ROTATION, and "knock knees" or genu valgus is accompanied by TIBIAL EXTERNAL ROTATION. Given the previous description of supination being a complex motion incorporating tibial external rotation, it then follows on principle and in practice that genu varus is actually coupled with pronation NOT supination. It seems intuitively opposite, but that’s the way it goes.

Response:

When the dude set my shoes up on the counter, they definitely seemed to lean out. They damn sure weren’t neutral and didn’t lean in. My feet are a little splayed, but they’re not like a ballerina at first position or whatever they call it. I do have high, rigid arches. On the bulkier, squishier shoe deal…I forgot to mention in my previous posts that I’m 6′2" and 200 lbs., so they always love to put me in the mondo cushioning shoes which generally is fine by me. I also have a pair of Landreths that I use for short runs (under 5 miles), but the pain occurs equally with either shoe.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have only slightly splayed feet. I too, thought this was my problem in the beginning. I went to the running store today and was told by the dudes there that my shoes are fine, but I am definitely a mild supinator. I was further told the Nimbus has a curved last. I have never seen a "supinator". You may be an "under pronator" with rigid arches, but I doubt you’re a "supinator", unless you have splayed feet. The nimbus is a cushion shoe, should be OK for you, though it’s one of the bulkier squishier shoes out there. Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

Ah, I see what you mean about our posts being similar–my pain has occurred on both sides now (at different times), so my hopes (like yours) about being crooked don’t seem right…I also feel the fact that I am running on the outside of my feet, but on both sides, and I can’t figure out how to fix it…maybe the doc will fix me up Do you have splayed feet ? Cheers, Splayed? No, not at all they go straight ahead. What effect would splayed feet have?

They cause the outside of your shoes to wear. Another thing is that my legs are kind of bowed, which seems logical for a supinator, right?

Response:

I have only slightly splayed feet. I too, thought this was my problem in the beginning. I went to the running store today and was told by the dudes there that my shoes are fine, but I am definitely a mild supinator. I was further told the Nimbus has a curved last.

I have never seen a "supinator". You may be an "under pronator" with rigid arches, but I doubt you’re a "supinator", unless you have splayed feet. The nimbus is a cushion shoe, should be OK for you, though it’s one of the bulkier squishier shoes out there. Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

Quite sure

That’s not what I heard…

Response:

In your particular case Bill might I recommend a chainsaw?

Actually I used to use one, it cut well, but it made jagged cuts on the torsos. Just too messy.

Response:

Splayed? No, not at all they go straight ahead. What effect would splayed feet have?

It would tell us how often you have sex, and this indicates you aren’t "gettin’ enough". Call me. Another thing is that my legs are kind of bowed,

Oh? Maybe you are gettin’ enough. Someone did make a comment about the angle that my legs made in relation to my knees (lower legs) once, but I forget what it was.

It’s called "kickin". email me and I’ll explain it.

Response:

Self-massage tools here,

LMFAO! Trust me on this, runners are experts on "self-massage" LOLOLOL

Response:

I spoke to a physio recently who recommendedsmothering the area between hip and knee (on top of the band) with sorbolene and going for it with your knuckles in a motion from top to bottom.

You sure he didn’t mean KY jelly in your arse?

Response:

You sure he didn’t mean KY jelly in your arse?

Quite sure Bill but hey, whatever you do in the privacy of your own dojo is fine by me.

Response:

Bummer! But orthotics aren’t the answer, getting the legs to equal length is. A chiro can do that in most cases.

In your particular case Bill might I recommend a chainsaw?

Response:

Splayed? No, not at all they go straight ahead. What effect would splayed feet have? Another thing is that my legs are kind of bowed, which seems logical for a supinator, right? Someone did make a comment about the angle that my legs made in relation to my knees (lower legs) once, but I forget what it was. Mandy

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ah, I see what you mean about our posts being similar–my pain has occurred on both sides now (at different times), so my hopes (like yours) about being crooked don’t seem right…I also feel the fact that I am running on the outside of my feet, but on both sides, and I can’t figure out how to fix it…maybe the doc will fix me up Do you have splayed feet ? Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

I have no problem *stopping* stretching, thanks for the tip…:)

Some say stretching saves them, some like myself it just causes injurys. So whichever works for you, but it seems obvious you are doing WAY too much stretching. Personally, I was kinda hoping it was because orthotics would have solved everything, no? But it ain’t that.

Bummer! But orthotics aren’t the answer, getting the legs to equal length is. A chiro can do that in most cases. By the by, my doctor has a Chiro in his office that I’m going to see, but in the meantime, who makes a curved last shoe?

I imagine they all do, except of course for nikes, which suck.

Response:

Do you have splayed feet ? Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I started running again about 3 months ago after a very long hiatus (10+ years). Everytime I go to buy running shoes, the salesperson almost always assumes that I am some type of overpronator until they see me walk, when they always come back to admitting I am a neutral runner with high arches. Most recently, I have been running in the Asics Nimbus VI for longer runs and the Asics Landreth for shorter runs. I clearly have some touch of ITBS. Stretching generally improves it a great deal (before, during and after runs) but after running a 10-miler on Saturday, I am convinced that I supinate on my right foot which is the knee where the ITBS occurs. I don’t really know how to explain it, but I can *feel* my foot rolling outward and the related stress on the knee. In fact, when I *try* to "pull" the knee in, it actually feels better…I just can’t run for miles like that. So I’m beginning to think my problem is, in part, my shoes. I’ve seen a Sports Medicine doctor and he has told me I am not doing any structural damage. My ITBS is not horrible, but it is there. The key to managing it, I have found is a) stetching beforehand, b) not stopping during a run and/or c)stretching it in lieu of stopping. Still, the pain remains. (Strangely, it seems to be really bad past 3 miles, then dissipates to a degree after 5 miles.) But back to the shoes. So let’s say I really am a mild supinator. I did a search of what kinds of shoes to look at, and I didn’t find a lot of specific information as far as models to look for. But I did find a couple of resources that said I should look for a highly cushioned shoe with a curved last and a single-density or very soft midsole and the heel counter should be very soft (according to Cool Running, "essetially useless"). Does such a shoe exist? TIA for any help.

Response:

Self-massage tools here, including ITB http://www.tpmassageball.com/ They overstate the mechanism by which direct pressure relieves myofascial tension, saying that it pushes oxygen into the muscle, however, there is phenomenological evidence that ischemic compression over trigger points provides a neuroinhibitory stimulus/response. You may also want to check out: http://www.yamunabodyrolling.com/ Same principles, better package.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I clearly have some touch of ITBS. Stretching generally improves it a great deal (before, during and after runs) but after running a 10-miler on Saturday, I am convinced that I supinate on my right foot which is the knee where the ITBS occurs. I don’t really know how to explain it, but I can *feel* my foot rolling outward and the related stress on the knee. In fact, when I *try* to "pull" the knee in, it actually feels better…I just can’t run for miles like that. I spoke to a physio recently who recommendedsmothering the area between hip and knee (on top of the band) with sorbolene and going for it with your knuckles in a motion from top to bottom. Haven’t tried it ’cause I don’t have ITBS, just thought it might be worth a shot. Cheers, Brad

Response:

I clearly have some touch of ITBS. Stretching generally improves it a great deal (before, during and after runs) but after running a 10-miler on Saturday, I am convinced that I supinate on my right foot which is the knee where the ITBS occurs. I don’t really know how to explain it, but I can *feel* my foot rolling outward and the related stress on the knee. In fact, when I *try* to "pull" the knee in, it actually feels better…I just can’t run for miles like that.

I spoke to a physio recently who recommendedsmothering the area between hip and knee (on top of the band) with sorbolene and going for it with your knuckles in a motion from top to bottom. Haven’t tried it ’cause I don’t have ITBS, just thought it might be worth a shot. Cheers, Brad

Response:

I have no problem *stopping* stretching, thanks for the tip…:) I too, thought I had one leg longer than the other, but the Doc who checked me out measured and such is not the case. Personally, I was kinda hoping it was because orthotics would have solved everything, no? But it ain’t that. By the by, my doctor has a Chiro in his office that I’m going to see, but in the meantime, who makes a curved last shoe?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I clearly have some touch of ITBS. Stretching generally improves it a great deal (before, during and after runs) Cut the before, you are over stretching. but after running a 10-miler on Saturday, I am convinced that I supinate on my right foot which is the knee where the ITBS occurs. I don’t really know how to explain it, but I can *feel* my foot rolling outward and the related stress on the knee. One leg is longer than the other. Go to a chiro. a) stetching beforehand, OBVIOUSLY THIS IS NOT WORKING! STOP IT.

Response:

I clearly have some touch of ITBS. Stretching generally improves it a great deal (before, during and after runs)

Cut the before, you are over stretching. but after running a 10-miler on Saturday, I am convinced that I supinate on my right foot which is the knee where the ITBS occurs. I don’t really know how to explain it, but I can *feel* my foot rolling outward and the related stress on the knee.

One leg is longer than the other. Go to a chiro. a) stetching beforehand,

OBVIOUSLY THIS IS NOT WORKING! STOP IT.

Response:

I started running again about 3 months ago after a very long hiatus (10+ years). Everytime I go to buy running shoes, the salesperson almost always assumes that I am some type of overpronator until they see me walk, when they always come back to admitting I am a neutral runner with high arches. Most recently, I have been running in the Asics Nimbus VI for longer runs and the Asics Landreth for shorter runs. I clearly have some touch of ITBS. Stretching generally improves it a great deal (before, during and after runs) but after running a 10-miler on Saturday, I am convinced that I supinate on my right foot which is the knee where the ITBS occurs. I don’t really know how to explain it, but I can *feel* my foot rolling outward and the related stress on the knee. In fact, when I *try* to "pull" the knee in, it actually feels better…I just can’t run for miles like that. So I’m beginning to think my problem is, in part, my shoes. I’ve seen a Sports Medicine doctor and he has told me I am not doing any structural damage. My ITBS is not horrible, but it is there. The key to managing it, I have found is a) stetching beforehand, b) not stopping during a run and/or c)stretching it in lieu of stopping. Still, the pain remains. (Strangely, it seems to be really bad past 3 miles, then dissipates to a degree after 5 miles.) But back to the shoes. So let’s say I really am a mild supinator. I did a search of what kinds of shoes to look at, and I didn’t find a lot of specific information as far as models to look for. But I did find a couple of resources that said I should look for a highly cushioned shoe with a curved last and a single-density or very soft midsole and the heel counter should be very soft (according to Cool Running, "essetially useless"). Does such a shoe exist? TIA for any help.

Response:

HELP PICK SHOES!

admin — Tue, 27 Jul 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Does anyone know which running shoes are best for bowlegged people? Would appreciate it if you can locate one avaiable at www.footlocker.com.

Response:

<< bowlegged people what’s that? perhaps, an archer with cupid’s arrow? _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me! http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo \ - – //

Response:

Does anyone know which running shoes are best for bowlegged people?

I don’t believe there’s any such thing. Take your old shoes to a REAL RUNNING STORE, forget foot locker, and get the right shoes.

Response:

No problem, let me get that for you…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know which running shoes are best for bowlegged people? Would appreciate it if you can locate one avaiable at www.footlocker.com.

Response:

i am a little bowed – i use asics plodzilla – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know which running shoes are best for bowlegged people? Would appreciate it if you can locate one avaiable at www.footlocker.com.

Response:

I am a very bowlegged, 230lb. clydesdale male runner (~12-15mi a week). Finally got the local running store to check out my stride and pronation. I’d been running in NB 99x and Asics Nimbus for years just because I figured that even though I was flatfooted from my weight that my bowleggedness actually caused me to underpronate and I needed cushion cushion cushion. Well it turns out I am indeed a moderate-large overpronator, and so after about 6 pairs of shoes trying on the best for me was a motion-control .. in a Saucony Grid Omni 3 (4’s weren’t out yet). They have made a world of difference in my running, although I was already injury free. But anyway, leave the Foot Locker behind and find a real, local (if possible) running shoe store where you can be biomechanically evaluated. Charles Evans

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know which running shoes are best for bowlegged people? Would appreciate it if you can locate one avaiable at www.footlocker.com.

Response:

Try on as many shoes as you can. When you find a shoe that works for you, than you can go on line and order a bunch of identical pairs. If I follow the "advise" on what should work, it doesn’t. Also, getting orthodics are a great advantage. You can have them made by a podiatrist, usually hard, or by a good chiropractor, which are usually soft and flexible. If you’re near NYC I can recommend someone that made my favorites. Still, then you need to try shoes that work well with your orthodics. For me, Sacouny Jazz Wides work great. They keep changing their style and I wish in 99 I had bought a dozen pairs. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know which running shoes are best for bowlegged people? Would appreciate it if you can locate one avaiable at www.footlocker.com.

Response:

Running shoes and weight lifting

admin — Mon, 26 Jul 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Isn’t that really bad to use your running shoes for other sports?

Yes. Squats would really put an imprint on the cushioning. I always have my main pair of running shoes for the roads, then my "retired" pair (ie, the previous main pair) for the gym / running machine. That way I don’t have to take two pairs to the gym. The cushioning in the gym pair isn’t as good, but you get a lot of cushioning from the treadmill anyway.. Just a suggestion – I’m no expert.

But you gave expert advice! Nice job.

Response:

I do weights in my running shoes all the time.

See, I told you it was a bad idea. The only issue I’ve had is that something more stable (e.g. converse allstars) would be much better for squatting.

Like I said, the less padding the better.

Response:

my sis squats 300 with her runnig shoes /( asics i think) no problems

Yikes!

Response:

I do weights in my running shoes all the time. With the weight you’re using, it’s not a problem at all. The only issue I’ve had is that something more stable (e.g. converse allstars) would be much better for squatting.

Wouldn’t the force of each footfall during running on the shoe’s construction be much more than the force from weightlifting? Maybe not – never was much good at physics.

Response:

Isn’t that really bad to use your running shoes for other sports? Squats would really put an imprint on the cushioning. I always have my main pair of running shoes for the roads, then my "retired" pair (ie, the previous main pair) for the gym / running machine. That way I don’t have to take two pairs to the gym. The cushioning in the gym pair isn’t as good, but you get a lot of cushioning from the treadmill anyway.. Just a suggestion – I’m no expert.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going to get back into running again, some on the street but also threadmill at the gym. It’s also time to buy another pair of running shoes. And some of the more serious running shoes aren’t very cheap. Looking into the Asics model. My question is I also lift weights at the gym. Am I going to destroy my shoes if I do squats. I’m 150lb and I squat about 140lb of weight on my shoulder. I would hate to make the gel, nike air, or whatever pad explode. But I also don’t like the idea of bringing 2 pairs of shoes (actually 3 if you count the slippers that I bring for a swimming)

Response:

It’s also time to buy another pair of running shoes. And some of the more serious running shoes aren’t very cheap. Looking into the Asics model.

Very good choice! They are top of the line shoes. My question is I also lift weights at the gym. Am I going to destroy my shoes if I do squats. I’m 150lb and I squat about 140lb of weight on my shoulder. I would hate to make the gel, nike air, or whatever pad explode. But I also don’t like the idea of bringing 2 pairs of shoes (actually 3 if you count the slippers that I bring for a swimming)

Shoes for lifting? Do it barefoot, I never wear shoes to lift. You certainly shouldn’t wear padded shoes while lifting. Two pairs are the only way.

Response:

I am going to get back into running again, some on the street but also threadmill at the gym. It’s also time to buy another pair of running shoes. And some of the more serious running shoes aren’t very cheap. Looking into the Asics model. My question is I also lift weights at the gym. Am I going to destroy my shoes if I do squats. I’m 150lb and I squat about 140lb of weight on my shoulder. I would hate to make the gel, nike air, or whatever pad explode. But I also don’t like the idea of bringing 2 pairs of shoes (actually 3 if you count the slippers that I bring for a swimming)

Response:

my sis squats 300 with her runnig shoes /( asics i think) no problems plodzilla – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My question is I also lift weights at the gym. Am I going to destroy my shoes if I do squats. The Asics models have a foam material, not air. You might wear out the cushioning a little quicker by wearing the shoes more, but you can’t break it. Steve

Response:

My question is I also lift weights at the gym. Am I going to destroy my shoes if I do squats.

The Asics models have a foam material, not air. You might wear out the cushioning a little quicker by wearing the shoes more, but you can’t break it. Steve

Response:

Latest nike research.

admin — Sun, 20 Jun 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I rest my case! You Fing people JUST DON’T GET IT, do you? How thick do you have to be? 200 miles IS A JOKE! AND you paid a ridiculously high price for them on top of it! Somehow I just know you’re trying to reelect the chimp to the white house too. All this Nike bashing is so juvenile and dumb. I compare it to people hating the Lakers or Yankees. Does anyone hate Brooks shoes or the Bengals or Clippers?

Then you’re not paying attention, because you just proved my case that nikes are cheap crap. I think the Air Streaks are the fastest shoes I’ve ever worn. I just wore out my first pair and am working on the second. I should be due for a new pair soon.

And another, and another, and another. I’ll still be wearing my same pair of Asics bought for 1/3 less money.

Response:

More lies??? You just dig yourself deeper with every post, don’t you? You aren’t even a GOOD liar. Shall I pull up direct quotes by you on buying "2 or 3 pairs a year", and "swapping out shoes frequently", as well as the fact you don’t do enough total miles to be considered a distance runner anyways. Nikes work for you because you don’t run enough miles for it to matter. First learn to run little boy, then learn to be a better liar, and maybe we’ll let you play with us big boys someday. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just wore out my first pair and am working on the second. Hmm, you sure aren’t a very good liar, are you? In one post you talk about how long they last you, then in the next you tell us you buy 2 or 3 pairs a year. Call me any insult for preferring Nike all you want. I don’t give a shit because they work for me. Call me a liar and you piss me off. Since you’re interested I bought my first pair of Nike Air Streaks in 1997 (I remember the first race I ran in them). I’ve used that pair of shoes for races for close to 7 years. That is about 100 miles of racing per year. I bought the second pair of Streaks (that I’m now using) 2 years after that which means that pair is 5 years old. I used them for track workouts and muddy races. 7 years for a pair of shoes sounds like a pretty good deal to me. Before you call people liars remember that you are a fucked up asshole who really needs help. And remember I don’t lie so you really are a fucked up asshole. Andy

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When a troll answers a troll, it there anything BUT noise?

I couldn’t hear anything. Maybe they cancel eachother out. Phil M. — "Do, or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

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No discussion on the latest study that says that nike wearers are 70% more likely to suffer ankle and knee injuries, than wearers of other brands? I thought it would be big news on here.

This above statistic, if true, make perfect sense. The statistic may be more about the people buying the shoes than the shoes themselves. Nike does a lot of advertising to the general public (who are mostly non-runners). Non-runners are more likely to become injured when buying a shoe, maybe for fashion reasons, and then going out without training and pretending to be the athletes and models in the advertisements. Thus the statistic on injury could be completely true even if Nike shoes were equal or better to the other brands in terms of ankle and knee health when models appropriate for their intended use are choosen by knowledgeable runners. That’s because most of the injuries may be to people who don’t know what they’re doing, but buy Nike shoes more often than other brands because of the relative sizes of their advertising budgets. See the book "How to Lie with Statistics" for related stuff. IMHO. YMMV. — Ron Nicholson rhn AT nicholson DOT com http://www.nicholson.com/rhn/ #include

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I just wore out my first pair and am working on the second. Hmm, you sure aren’t a very good liar, are you? In one post you talk about how long they last you, then in the next you tell us you buy 2 or 3 pairs a year.

Call me any insult for preferring Nike all you want. I don’t give a shit because they work for me. Call me a liar and you piss me off. Since you’re interested I bought my first pair of Nike Air Streaks in 1997 (I remember the first race I ran in them). I’ve used that pair of shoes for races for close to 7 years. That is about 100 miles of racing per year. I bought the second pair of Streaks (that I’m now using) 2 years after that which means that pair is 5 years old. I used them for track workouts and muddy races. 7 years for a pair of shoes sounds like a pretty good deal to me. Before you call people liars remember that you are a fucked up asshole who really needs help. And remember I don’t lie so you really are a fucked up asshole. Andy

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re nothing but a troll. Everytime this subject comes up you post this crap. Considering the posts run 20 saying they suck, to your 1, I’d say you are just a wee troll, or just an ignorant dipshit. No discussion on the latest study that says that nike wearers are 70% more likely to suffer ankle and knee injuries, than wearers of other brands? I thought it would be big news on here. Or is it just because I’ve been saying this for years? As for me Nike rocks! I love their shoes. I tried Ascics and found them to pale in comparison, they were ok but nowhere near as good. My Nike Zoom Elite shoes are lightweight, responsive and feel great to run in. My Nike Pegasus are such a smooth shoe. They too are responsive and comfortable for my long runs. There isn’t a pr I haven’t run in my Nike Air Streaks. That is a shoe that is just plain fast. I’ll post when I get a Nike shoe related injury. Studies make it easy to find what one wants to find. Andy

When a troll answers a troll, it there anything BUT noise? Philosophy on the Run.

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Anyway, they didn’t have the Nikes in my size,

Why? Why? Why? Do you like injuries? Like paying a 1/3 more than you have to? Like wearing cheaply made trash on your feet? but I’ve asked for a quote on some Mizunos. I’ll let you know how much!

I guarantee you won’t go back to nikes. You know what they say "once you go Asics,(insert Mizuno in there) you won’t go back".

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just where is this link to the study that says that nike users have a 70% chance of suffering ankle and knee injuries. now i am not nor have i ever been a nike user. however i have friends who are very serious competitive runners as well as being loyal to the brand since it’s inception. yet none of my friends have suffered from injuries to any greater extent from those who have not been nike wearers. i do have to question the motives behind this so called study. granted nike does make some really crappy shoes as does every other maker of running shoes. in my opinion they are really no better nor no worse than the other brands that are on the market today.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No discussion on the latest study that says that nike wearers are 70% more likely to suffer ankle and knee injuries, than wearers of other brands? I thought it would be big news on here. Or is it just because I’ve been saying this for years? As for me Nike rocks! I love their shoes. I tried Ascics and found them to pale in comparison, they were ok but nowhere near as good. My Nike Zoom Elite shoes are lightweight, responsive and feel great to run in. My Nike Pegasus are such a smooth shoe. They too are responsive and comfortable for my long runs. There isn’t a pr I haven’t run in my Nike Air Streaks. That is a shoe that is just plain fast. I haven’t had the chance to run in Zoom Elite (too expensive) but I thought the Pegasus were very good shoes, and I have worn out two pairs of Air Streaks (I use them for fast training as well as racing). Bill needs to differentiate between vanilla Nike and the Bowerman range, which are just as good as his beloved Asics (I just bought a pair of Asics DS which are pretty damn good). Edward — The reading group’s reading group: http://www.bookgroup.org.uk

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I haven’t had the chance to run in Zoom Elite (too expensive) but I

You can get these discounted at rrs now. Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No discussion on the latest study that says that nike wearers are 70% more likely to suffer ankle and knee injuries, than wearers of other brands? I thought it would be big news on here. Or is it just because I’ve been saying this for years? As for me Nike rocks! I love their shoes. I tried Ascics and found them to pale in comparison, they were ok but nowhere near as good. My Nike Zoom Elite shoes are lightweight, responsive and feel great to run in. My Nike Pegasus are such a smooth shoe. They too are responsive and comfortable for my long runs. There isn’t a pr I haven’t run in my Nike Air Streaks. That is a shoe that is just plain fast. I haven’t had the chance to run in Zoom Elite (too expensive) but I thought the Pegasus were very good shoes, and I have worn out two pairs of Air Streaks (I use them for fast training as well as racing).

I think the Air Streaks are the fastest shoes I’ve ever worn. I just wore out my first pair and am working on the second. I should be due for a new pair soon. Andy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bill needs to differentiate between vanilla Nike and the Bowerman range, which are just as good as his beloved Asics (I just bought a pair of Asics DS which are pretty damn good). Edward — The reading group’s reading group: http://www.bookgroup.org.uk

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I haven’t had the chance to run in Zoom Elite (too expensive)

They ALL are too expensive. You are wasting money on nikes. You can get more shoe for a 1/3 less money. P.T. Barnum knew your birthday. but I thought the Pegasus were very good shoes, and I have worn out two pairs of Air Streaks (I use them for fast training as well as racing). I think the Air Streaks are the fastest shoes I’ve ever worn. I just wore out my first pair and am working on the second. I should be due for a new pair soon. Andy

So you lil wuussies, what kind of mileage do you put in per week? (I feel squeals of laughter coming on)

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I haven’t had the chance to run in Zoom Elite (too expensive) but I You can get these discounted at rrs now. Cheers,

Thanks for the pointer, but I’m from the UK and don’t know rrs. The best that Google could do was rrs.com, which didn’t seem to fit the bill. Can you post a URL, please? Ta Edward — The reading group’s reading group: http://www.bookgroup.org.uk

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I haven’t had the chance to run in Zoom Elite (too expensive) but I You can get these discounted at rrs now. Cheers, Thanks for the pointer, but I’m from the UK and don’t know rrs. The best that Google could do was rrs.com, which didn’t seem to fit the bill. Can you post a URL, please?

www.roadrunnersports.com They do ship internationally though it could be expensive. — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

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I just wore out my first pair and am working on the second.

Hmm, you sure aren’t a very good liar, are you? In one post you talk about how long they last you, then in the next you tell us you buy 2 or 3 pairs a year.

Response:

I agree the Nike Streaks are awesome shoes. They are quite light, fast and smooth with surprising cushioning and support for such a light racing flat. Although I only get about 200 miles out of them and am on my 3rd pair. All this Nike bashing is so juvenile and dumb. I compare it to people hating the Lakers or Yankees. Does anyone hate Brooks shoes or the Bengals or Clippers? I’ve had Nikes that sucked and Nikes that were awesome. Had the same experience with Adidas and Asics. You just have to find what works for you and purchase a bunch of them or hope the replacement model won’t change too much next year. Adidas just pissed me off "updating" the Rotterdam to the Rotterdam II. Changing a nice smooth, fairly lightweight trainer into a shoe with horrible transistion between heel and toe. (But I can’t wait to get a pair of their new Adios). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think the Air Streaks are the fastest shoes I’ve ever worn. I just wore out my first pair and am working on the second. I should be due for a new pair soon.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I haven’t had the chance to run in Zoom Elite (too expensive) but I You can get these discounted at rrs now. Cheers, Thanks for the pointer, but I’m from the UK and don’t know rrs. The best that Google could do was rrs.com, which didn’t seem to fit the bill. Can you post a URL, please? www.roadrunnersports.com They do ship internationally though it could be expensive.

That is a really good site – for a start, you can search by available shoe size! Anyway, they didn’t have the Nikes in my size, but I’ve asked for a quote on some Mizunos. I’ll let you know how much! Thanks for the info. Edward — The reading group’s reading group: http://www.bookgroup.org.uk

Response:

No discussion on the latest study that says that nike wearers are 70% more likely to suffer ankle and knee injuries, than wearers of other brands? I thought it would be big news on here. Or is it just because I’ve been saying this for years? As for me Nike rocks! I love their shoes. I tried Ascics and found them to pale in comparison, they were ok but nowhere near as good. My Nike Zoom Elite shoes are lightweight, responsive and feel great to run in. My Nike Pegasus are such a smooth shoe. They too are responsive and comfortable for my long runs. There isn’t a pr I haven’t run in my Nike Air Streaks. That is a shoe that is just plain fast.

I haven’t had the chance to run in Zoom Elite (too expensive) but I thought the Pegasus were very good shoes, and I have worn out two pairs of Air Streaks (I use them for fast training as well as racing). Bill needs to differentiate between vanilla Nike and the Bowerman range, which are just as good as his beloved Asics (I just bought a pair of Asics DS which are pretty damn good). Edward — The reading group’s reading group: http://www.bookgroup.org.uk

Response:

P.S. Your idiotic comment about Asics (one of the most reputable, well made, and highly thought-of brands on the market today)really shows you for the troll you are. Like we said before, there’s a sucker born every minute, you’re it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No discussion on the latest study that says that nike wearers are 70% more likely to suffer ankle and knee injuries, than wearers of other brands? I thought it would be big news on here. Or is it just because I’ve been saying this for years? As for me Nike rocks! I love their shoes. I tried Ascics and found them to pale in comparison, they were ok but nowhere near as good. My Nike Zoom Elite shoes are lightweight, responsive and feel great to run in. My Nike Pegasus are such a smooth shoe. They too are responsive and comfortable for my long runs. There isn’t a pr I haven’t run in my Nike Air Streaks. That is a shoe that is just plain fast. I’ll post when I get a Nike shoe related injury. Studies make it easy to find what one wants to find. Andy

Response:

You’re nothing but a troll. Everytime this subject comes up you post this crap. Considering the posts run 20 saying they suck, to your 1, I’d say you are just a wee troll, or just an ignorant dipshit. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No discussion on the latest study that says that nike wearers are 70% more likely to suffer ankle and knee injuries, than wearers of other brands? I thought it would be big news on here. Or is it just because I’ve been saying this for years? As for me Nike rocks! I love their shoes. I tried Ascics and found them to pale in comparison, they were ok but nowhere near as good. My Nike Zoom Elite shoes are lightweight, responsive and feel great to run in. My Nike Pegasus are such a smooth shoe. They too are responsive and comfortable for my long runs. There isn’t a pr I haven’t run in my Nike Air Streaks. That is a shoe that is just plain fast. I’ll post when I get a Nike shoe related injury. Studies make it easy to find what one wants to find. Andy

Response:

As for me Nike rocks! I love their shoes. I tried Ascics and found them to pale in comparison, they were ok but nowhere near as good. My Nike Zoom Elite shoes are lightweight, responsive and feel great to run in. My Nike Pegasus are such a smooth shoe. They too are responsive and comfortable for my long runs. There isn’t a pr I haven’t run in my Nike Air Streaks. That is a shoe that is just plain fast. I’ll post when I get a Nike shoe related injury. Studies make it easy to find what one wants to find. Andy

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Feel free to point us to this study. I’m just dying to see the metrics. -DF

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What do you think the reason is? The design of the shoe or the mentality of the people who wear them?

Interesting question, I’m not sure, but probably a bit of both. I guess people who’d be fooled by hype and advertising blitz’s, as well as "how they look" (some jerk commented on how my running shoes, my ‘mudders’, would look to others with silicon on them? Like I give a shit how I look when i’m up to my knees in mud) are probably more concerned with the name than the design or quality of the shoe. I admit they make a few decent shoes, but even those are far overpriced compared to other, more durable brands, and simply are not a quality made shoe. Then of course there are those born with the golden spoon, who get a boner by spending more money than they need to. Nike’s brandname will get them a greater share of people who haven’t got a clue what they’re doing.

Absolutely true! I’m sure about 98% of nike running shoes sold, never get more than a quick jog to the fridge for some chilled wine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No discussion on the latest study that says that nike wearers are 70% more likely to suffer ankle and knee injuries, than wearers of other brands? I thought it would be big news on here. Or is it just because I’ve been saying this for years?

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I saw that study, very credible. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No discussion on the latest study that says that nike wearers are 70% more likely to suffer ankle and knee injuries, than wearers of other brands? I thought it would be big news on here. Or is it just because I’ve been saying this for years?

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What do you think the reason is? The design of the shoe or the mentality of the people who wear them? Nike’s brandname will get them a greater share of people who haven’t got a clue what they’re doing.

Response:

Laurel Highlands 70 mile run and relay

admin — Tue, 15 Jun 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I can get by with one liberal shot of Vaseline. For me, and maybe a product of my socks, I didn’t get crud through my socks and into the Vaseline. I do get crud in my shoe which I will stop and remove. In essence the sock serves as a filter. I can see if one is wearing low not snug(elastic is less than ideal) socks and things making their way in. For most of my races I can by with low Wigwams but for this race I opted for a high sock knowing the trail was more rugged and full of "stuff." -DougF

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – . . . . . . I’m considering trying duct tape, but . . . . . . Hi, I just happened to remember that the only story I ever heard about duct tape and skin was not a happy one. My ex boss had an off-road racing truck, and got blisters on his rear end if he didn’t tape his cheeks together. (Weird, I know.) At the Mint 500 in Nevada around 1985 they forgot the adhesive tape, and used duct tape instead. Different glue!!! Many hours later, when the tape came off, so did a lot of skin. (ouch!) Maybe experiment in a small noncritical if you are thinking of duct tape on skin.

Duck tape is very popular because it sticks, stays well and wards off some real evil blisters. If the choice is some discomfort AFTER the race I’d go with the duct tape in a heartbeat. Running with blistered, bloody feet for hours and hours is not fun. I prefer Johnson&Johnson tape but I know it does not do well in stream crossings. If I know ahead of time the course is wet I go for the duct tape. DougF

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ok, thanks. I think that’s why I’ve been favoring the tighter weave socks. I only use crew height (with some a little taller). Dot — "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

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. . . . . . I’m considering trying duct tape, but . . . . . . Hi, I just happened to remember that the only story I ever heard about duct tape and skin was not a happy one. My ex boss had an off-road racing truck, and got blisters on his rear end if he didn’t tape his cheeks together. (Weird, I know.) At the Mint 500 in Nevada around 1985 they forgot the adhesive tape, and used duct tape instead. Different glue!!! Many hours later, when the tape came off, so did a lot of skin. (ouch!) Maybe experiment in a small noncritical if you are thinking of duct tape on skin.

LoL, well maybe gaffers tape? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Good luck! — Daniel

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. . . . . . I’m considering trying duct tape, but . . . . . .

Hi, I just happened to remember that the only story I ever heard about duct tape and skin was not a happy one. My ex boss had an off-road racing truck, and got blisters on his rear end if he didn’t tape his cheeks together. (Weird, I know.) At the Mint 500 in Nevada around 1985 they forgot the adhesive tape, and used duct tape instead. Different glue!!! Many hours later, when the tape came off, so did a lot of skin. (ouch!) Maybe experiment in a small noncritical if you are thinking of duct tape on skin. Good luck! — Daniel

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. I know I was quite undertrained for my first 50 mile. I missed the specifics of how or what caused your less than stellar first. Was in low mileage, insufficient quality(trained flat, race was all hills), low carbs, low salt, poor carbs, dehydration, too much hydration, bad pacing, bad/wrong shoes…some or all? lol well… My less than stellar first 50m was caused by very low running mileage – I did a trail run of 100 mins to 2 hours once a week for about 3 months before the 50 miler.

I think we covered this before but two hours each weekend is much too little. I would bump the every other weekend up to 5 hours and maybe two of these. The cross training didn’t help the legs for running much.

‘Tis true but it’s still good cross training I think I handled the race fairly well in terms of hydration – eating was a different matter. After 50k I couldn’t get anything down except liquids, and as a result I bonked very hard at about 43 miles, and though I did run some more, basically I was shot at that

point. Food is always an issue for most runners. The usual adage to practice in training only provides a little information. If your body absolutely dislikes some food or drink you will get some fast feedback Since training runs are less than the real deal you only know about those ingredients for that length of time. I can tell you that some food is just fine for a few hours and then it gets repulsive. For instance PB&J. You may like PB&J but how many before you stomach tells you one more and reverse peristalsis will take hold? I’m suggesting that variety of food if possible is the way to go. Personally I have found that SUCCEED!Clip (liquid food) works for me. I try to supplement from the tables with whole food but I know I’m getting good calories to include fat and protein from my drink. By the way, during your taper mode try to stay away from whatever food you determine works for you. This slight deprivation will help keep those foods exciting for a longer time race day(s). I was stupid to try to go 50m and should have stopped after the 50k. (It was stupid to even try 50k on that kind of training.)

No comment.,,,,,but you on to something Actually I was fairly happy with 6:28 through 50k that day. For the training I had done I felt pretty good after that. It was after that when things feel apart.

The two hour runs were bare bones. For a 50k I like 3-4 hours and gets me in from 4:20 to 5:30 depending on difficulty of the race. My feet have always given me problems in extended events like 24 hour ROGAINEs, or shorter ROGAINES 6 or 8 hours where we ran most of the

way. If you get hot spots say near the ball or arch, a series of strips of tape work wonders. I used two strips of J&J tape under the ball and joined at the top but should have used three since this race had lots of mud and muck. I stopped changed socks, retaped with three and was fine the rest of the way. Once you pull off you socks you may as well put on some clean ones. Vaseline around the toes works for me.

Me too. Some people use tape there also but I have found goop works nicely on my toes. Vaseline also works in many other areas which I won’t detail other than from my waist down I’d be slippery if someone grabbed me. What’s good is your on the right track. If any other questions you can try Email so we don’t want to bore 5k the red-liners. -DougF

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I was wearing thorlo trail-running crews. Maybe there are better socks for racing, though for training these seem fine.

I use same socks for training and races. I think I do a little better with SmartWool (lighter weight ones in summer and heavier in winter), Bridgedale (I think I’ve got 2 weights of them also), and Ultimax (winter weight) than with Thorlos. *For me*, the insides of the thorlos seem a little rougher than the others, and hence more likely to abrade when wet, but I should probably test them more. They’re definitely not as warm as my Smartwools or Ultimax in the winter. The vaseline seems to last just a few hours for me, and mainly I use it around the toes.

Ok, thanks. That seems in line with my short tests. Also I know some use short gaiters, and I may try this in the future.

I think gaitors will help with stuff coming in over the top, but may not help with stuff coming in the mesh. I’ve noticed after mud runs (no where near the top of my shoe), that I’ve got mud between sock liner and shoe proper, as well as in socks, etc. I got a pair on sale at REI this spring, but haven’t tried them yet. Most running gaitors only barely meet the top of the shoe and maybe a little over the laces, whereas a ski gaitor goes almost to tip of toe. I’ve considered modifying a pair of neoprene socks (or maybe the stormcloth ones) into a shoe cover for winter running. I’ve had horrible experiences with wet feet. Once in a 24 ROGAINE it rained and early on our feet were quite wet. Since ROGAINE is largely cross-country, and the allegeney terrain was very steep and rugged – our feet were toast.

I can imagine. I’ve had bad experiences with field work where we’re in the rain all day, and get to repeat it all each day for the next several days. On some of those trips I don’t think my feet dried out between days. Although I don’t think we ever reached the point of shooting pain from nerves like you describe. How to handle wet feet for 24 hours I still have no idea.

Yea, I think that’s a major issue. That comes up on the ultra list periodically since I think it’s Hardrock where people are running with almost continuously wet feet. Wearing Gore tex socks may or may not help (I have some to try next time) because your feet sweat so much that it might not make much difference.

I had some REI gore-tex socks that I returned unused. My foot has a high instep so the non-stretchiness of the gore-tex binds in some places and bunches in others. I’ve got a collection of SealSkinz (not the river crossing kind that have a sealed top), neoprene, and stormcloth socks that I’m going to try eventually. I had these from trying to find something to keep feet warm (at least non-frostbitten) on bike during a winter tri at +1F. They didn’t work for that (outer neoprene booties worked great and what I use for snowshoe running at -20F), so I’ll try them for wet days. SealSkinz are the most likely candidate from the bunch since they fit reasonably well. I asked one of the guys that ran the Susitna 100 in 2003 (the year the rivers didn’t freeze and the race was relocated to safe ground) what he did for shoes/socks in the soggy snow. He used Asics 2080s with Smartwools. In the past he’s used neoprene socks – at least once where he got bad blisters as a result. The equipment list for the Su100 suggests having some neoprene socks. Maybe gore-tex with sock changes every 4 hours and tape above the gore-tex socks? Without tape, water will run down your legs into the socks. Same problem (with no solution) for waterproof running shoes.

all good ideas. Still no real idea on this…

and it’s not the kind of thing that you can test unless you’ve get a wet run. Thanks for your comments. Dot — "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fresh socks each time? What are the problems with you feet? In general, between Vaseline, carefully placed tape and good socks I seldom have to touch my feet. I missed spot this year and stopped to re-tape the bottom with three strips rather than two. My feet have always given me problems in extended events like 24 hour ROGAINEs, or shorter ROGAINES 6 or 8 hours where we ran most of the way. Vaseline around the toes works for me. Doug and Tony and others that might tape/vaseline feet, Just curious, but do you vaseline lightly and re-apply as needed – maybe every few hours. Or a heavy dose that lasts, say, 6-12 hrs or more? For all long runs/races or just ones likely to be rainy and/or muddy? Any problems with grit being embedded, although I suspect this is a function of fine-grained soils (clays, silts) and mesh opening of shoe?

Yes, grit from the dusty trail made me re-vaseline my feet and change my socks a few times times. I was wearing thorlo trail-running crews. Maybe there are better socks for racing, though for training these seem fine. The vaseline seems to last just a few hours for me, and mainly I use it around the toes. Yes mesh openning on the shoes probably lets in too much dust. I was wearing new balance 805’s I believe. I like new balance because they’re one of the only brands to have widths that fit me well, but maybe some other kind of shoe is better. Also I know some use short gaiters, and I may try this in the future. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The reason I’m asking is my feet seem to do fine when dry – at least so far (but long run is still under 2 hrs). I used vaseline on feet for the first time this spring when running in wet field with shallow standing slush water (snow melt that can’t drain through frozen ground) – only about 45 min (thought I used it a couple times but can only find the one log entry). It worked fine, but it tends to soften my feet, making them more vulnerable to problems unless I put enough on. That said, it helped a tender toe recover after a long run with a slushy ending that drew blood from that toe (tip where sock must’ve bunched). I never had a problem again on slush runs (used vaseline), but never had to deal with continuously wet feet on a long run (over 1 hr). For non-winter socks, I tend to use smartwool hiking or light hiking or bridgedale. And yes, I know I’ll have to figure out what works for me, but was just interested in your experiences. I’m considering trying duct tape, but don’t have the conditions enough to have gotten that far with trials – and don’t know where abrasion points are likely to be yet – other than skin completely deteriorating from being wet for many hours. I do have John Vonhof’s book (Fixing Your Feet, not the newest edition) and subscribe to his e-zine, although behind on reading both.

I’ve had horrible experiences with wet feet. Once in a 24 ROGAINE it rained and early on our feet were quite wet. Since ROGAINE is largely cross-country, and the allegeney terrain was very steep and rugged – our feet were toast. The race started at noon Sat. By 3am we were starting to get very bad trenchfoot, and by 6am we were hobbling 5 miles back on the road to camp, quitting 6 hours early. The pain is indescribable – every single nerve ending in your foot is shooting and every step its agony. I think most people in that race suffered from some level of foot problems, including the winners – I remember seeing them hobble up to get their awards. How to handle wet feet for 24 hours I still have no idea. Wearing Gore tex socks may or may not help (I have some to try next time) because your feet sweat so much that it might not make much difference. Maybe gore-tex with sock changes every 4 hours and tape above the gore-tex socks? Without tape, water will run down your legs into the socks. Same problem (with no solution) for waterproof running shoes. Still no real idea on this… – Tony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks. Dot — "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Response:

Fresh socks each time? What are the problems with you feet? In general, between Vaseline, carefully placed tape and good socks I seldom have to touch my feet. I missed spot this year and stopped to re-tape the bottom with three strips rather than two. My feet have always given me problems in extended events like 24 hour ROGAINEs, or shorter ROGAINES 6 or 8 hours where we ran most of the way. Vaseline around the toes works for me.

Doug and Tony and others that might tape/vaseline feet, Just curious, but do you vaseline lightly and re-apply as needed – maybe every few hours. Or a heavy dose that lasts, say, 6-12 hrs or more? For all long runs/races or just ones likely to be rainy and/or muddy? Any problems with grit being embedded, although I suspect this is a function of fine-grained soils (clays, silts) and mesh opening of shoe? The reason I’m asking is my feet seem to do fine when dry – at least so far (but long run is still under 2 hrs). I used vaseline on feet for the first time this spring when running in wet field with shallow standing slush water (snow melt that can’t drain through frozen ground) – only about 45 min (thought I used it a couple times but can only find the one log entry). It worked fine, but it tends to soften my feet, making them more vulnerable to problems unless I put enough on. That said, it helped a tender toe recover after a long run with a slushy ending that drew blood from that toe (tip where sock must’ve bunched). I never had a problem again on slush runs (used vaseline), but never had to deal with continuously wet feet on a long run (over 1 hr). For non-winter socks, I tend to use smartwool hiking or light hiking or bridgedale. And yes, I know I’ll have to figure out what works for me, but was just interested in your experiences. I’m considering trying duct tape, but don’t have the conditions enough to have gotten that far with trials – and don’t know where abrasion points are likely to be yet – other than skin completely deteriorating from being wet for many hours. I do have John Vonhof’s book (Fixing Your Feet, not the newest edition) and subscribe to his e-zine, although behind on reading both. Thanks. Dot — "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually my rough thinking is 50k this year, 50 miles next year, then laurel highlands in 2006, and maybe 100m in 2007. Food for thought if you don’t mind training in the winter for next year. Do Hinte-Anderson 50k in the spring http://www.hatrun.com/ recover and do a summer or fall 50. The HAT run is an easy course compared to the Finger lakes runs and usually a great spring day. many use this race for their first.

Thanks Doug I’ll check it out. I’m think that my renewed interest in running will carry through the winter. As for Laurel, unless you like to play mule and haul all your own stuff on you back and/or drop bags, don’t do it without a crew. Some of the aid stations at 8-9 miles apart and in trail pace that can be 2-3 hours. I carried a two bottle belt and should have opted for larger bottles. Even with a crew the access points to the trail are minimal. I know I was quite undertrained for my first 50 mile. I missed the specifics of how or what caused your less than stellar first. Was in low mileage, insufficient quality(trained flat, race was all hills), low carbs, low salt, poor carbs, dehydration, too much hydration, bad pacing, bad/wrong shoes…some or all?

lol well… My less than stellar first 50m was caused by very low running mileage – I did a trail run of 100 mins to 2 hours once a week for about 3 months before the 50 miler. The cross training didn’t help the legs for running much. I think I handled the race fairly well in terms of hydration – eating was a different matter. After 50k I couldn’t get anything down except liquids, and as a result I bonked very hard at about 43 miles, and though I did run some more, basically I was shot at that point. I was stupid to try to go 50m and should have stopped after the 50k. (It was stupid to even try 50k on that kind of training.) Actually I was fairly happy with 6:28 through 50k that day. For the training I had done I felt pretty good after that. It was after that when things feel apart. Yes, 30 mins is a long time, and I don’t really know what took so long. I recorded every stop with a lap time. Twice I ate some solid food, restocked the cliff bars and gels i was carrying, attended my feet and then put on fresh socks. Fresh socks each time? What are the problems with you feet? In general, between Vaseline, carefully placed tape and good socks I seldom have to touch my feet. I missed spot this year and stopped to re-tape the bottom with three strips rather than two.

My feet have always given me problems in extended events like 24 hour ROGAINEs, or shorter ROGAINES 6 or 8 hours where we ran most of the way. Vaseline around the toes works for me. My feet weren’t that used to running because of a lack consistent running. Now that I realize I have to really train specifically for these races, as opposed to the less competative ROGAINE efforts, my feet are already getting tougher from more consistent running and longer trail runs. We keep learning hopefully. – Tony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –DougF

Response:

Actually my rough thinking is 50k this year, 50 miles next year, then laurel highlands in 2006, and maybe 100m in 2007.

Food for thought if you don’t mind training in the winter for next year. Do Hinte-Anderson 50k in the spring http://www.hatrun.com/ recover and do a summer or fall 50. The HAT run is an easy course compared to the Finger lakes runs and usually a great spring day. many use this race for their first. As for Laurel, unless you like to play mule and haul all your own stuff on you back and/or drop bags, don’t do it without a crew. Some of the aid stations at 8-9 miles apart and in trail pace that can be 2-3 hours. I carried a two bottle belt and should have opted for larger bottles. Even with a crew the access points to the trail are minimal. I know I was quite undertrained for my first 50 mile.

I missed the specifics of how or what caused your less than stellar first. Was in low mileage, insufficient quality(trained flat, race was all hills), low carbs, low salt, poor carbs, dehydration, too much hydration, bad pacing, bad/wrong shoes…some or all? Yes, 30 mins is a long time, and I don’t really know what took so long. I recorded every stop with a lap time. Twice I ate some solid food, restocked the cliff bars and gels i was carrying, attended my feet and then put on fresh socks.

Response:

I assume you find someone that is running your pace and you just run together for companionship. I did the same thing. This guy came up on me and said he felt like shit and asked I minded running together. We ran the last 13-15 together and hardly said a word. We were both tired a simply having someone close when you yelled "oh Shit" as you tripped on rock was comforting. I thin finding someone to run with in the late stages is very typical.

ok, thanks. That’s what I assumed, right down to the expletives! Sprints to the finish in a ultra are very rare.

That’s what I figured. I was just looking for an alternate hypothesis Dot — "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Response:

Great run Doug! I saw this race on the schedule and it looks like a great challenging race on interesting terrain, and may be a good stepping stone to a 100m. If the stepping stone is do LH one year and a 100 the next, good idea. If you mean to the 70 and the 100 in the same year I be careful.

Actually my rough thinking is 50k this year, 50 miles next year, then laurel highlands in 2006, and maybe 100m in 2007. I know I was quite undertrained for my first 50 mile. Other – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -say this 70 is close in effort to the easier 100’s. I could run Vermont in July but I have years at this an know my recovery. I may in fact try this next year assuming I still alive and running. How much time did you spend stopping to eat, rest, work on feet?, etc – or did you pretty much grab the food + Clip, and keep running. Minimal time. My crew would hand me one or two new bottles of clip, I’d forage the table for coke or Mountain dew and some food. Drink the fluid and take the food with me. Except for the time I took off my shoes and socks to tape a hot spot, I averaged maybe a minute or so. When I did 50m at finger lakes 50’s, the course came through base camp 3 times so some people stopped to eat BBQ chicken and take short breaks. When I stopped I ate some solid food and worked on my feet and the break time added up to over 30 mins total for the whole run. I’m wondering how much break time a more experienced runner like you has at these events. 30 minutes of aid station is lot of time. I drink at the table and take my food with me. You can always eat and walk if not run and eat.

Yes, 30 mins is a long time, and I don’t really know what took so long. I recorded every stop with a lap time. Twice I ate some solid food, restocked the cliff bars and gels i was carrying, attended my feet and then put on fresh socks. Considering that I had never run even a marathon before the 50m, and had some trouble with my feet before in ROGAINEs — I wanted to try to eat as much as possible and to take good care of my feet. I guess as one gets more experience with these events it doesnt take as long. Maybe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -minute per station. Also it sounds like its a fairly hard course (with mud rocks roots and undulation (those steep ravines in the western Appalachian plain?)) – can you please elaborate for someone thinking of running this race. It hard to describe No deep ravines as it tries to keep on top of the Laurel ridge line. It follows the natural terrain of the top except when moving from one range to another. -Dougf

Response:

Great run Doug! I saw this race on the schedule and it looks like a great challenging race on interesting terrain, and may be a good stepping stone to a 100m.

If the stepping stone is do LH one year and a 100 the next, good idea. If you mean to the 70 and the 100 in the same year I be careful. Other say this 70 is close in effort to the easier 100’s. I could run Vermont in July but I have years at this an know my recovery. I may in fact try this next year assuming I still alive and running. How much time did you spend stopping to eat, rest, work on feet?, etc – or did you pretty much grab the food + Clip, and keep running.

Minimal time. My crew would hand me one or two new bottles of clip, I’d forage the table for coke or Mountain dew and some food. Drink the fluid and take the food with me. Except for the time I took off my shoes and socks to tape a hot spot, I averaged maybe a minute or so. When I did 50m at finger lakes 50’s, the course came through base camp 3 times so some people stopped to eat BBQ chicken and take short breaks. When I stopped I ate some solid food and worked on my feet and the break time added up to over 30 mins total for the whole run. I’m wondering how much break time a more experienced runner like you has at these events.

30 minutes of aid station is lot of time. I drink at the table and take my food with me. You can always eat and walk if not run and eat. Maybe minute per station. Also it sounds like its a fairly hard course (with mud rocks roots and undulation (those steep ravines in the western Appalachian plain?)) – can you please elaborate for someone thinking of running this race.

It hard to describe No deep ravines as it tries to keep on top of the Laurel ridge line. It follows the natural terrain of the top except when moving from one range to another. -Dougf

Response:

" 66 started which is close to a 30% drop rate which in not uncommon for this race. For curiosity, did they drop before the end or just not make the 22-hr cutoff?

I honestly don’t know. I finished, sat for few minutes and went back to my hotel to wash and get some eats. I was running empty and did have the alerntess to ask the timne of day, er, night. This looked like a lower key race than many you do (except FA) – and more (or at least a different kind of) fun, IMHO For curiosity, I noticed that close to 1/4 the runners finished in nominal ties (not all at once, obviously, but same time as at least one other). In this type race, I’ve always interpreted that to mean that people may tend to run together – or were there that many photo finish sprints?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had a dual role this year being the first leg of the relay and also doing the race solo. For once this year the weather was perfect, 50’s to low 70’s under the canopy of the trees. The trail is marked by the state and has permanent mile markers for every mile. When you feeling good they seem to go by like a picket fence in a speeding car. When you’re not feeling so good they take forever. I was going to do a 100 in July but I was tardy with signing up and got closed out and stuffed this race in as a last minute thought. I think the cool weather allowed me to push a little more than I should have plus the terrain was sneaky. Not a lot of overall gain and loss once you got past the first 8 mile climb but sharp undulation combined with mud, rocks and roots had a vacuum effect. I had lots of base (a 50k and 50 mile race) to get through the distance but not enough training runs on rougher terrain. A few 3 1/2 hour runs on the rougher stuff was a little shy of the proper training but I knew that ahead of time. I had a rough spell in the 50’s but pulled it back for last 15. I was 19th of 46 finishers in a time of 16:47. 66 started which is close to a 30% drop rate which in not uncommon for this race. The team ran 16:18 but they had me as the early albatross. The aid station were few and stark and hawking Gatorpiss. My relay cohorts and bride served as crew and I only had to drink one bottle of that swill. I had premixed a bunch of bottles of SUCCEED!Clip which really helped. No problems with salt as one SUCCEED!cap an hour kept the plumbing active. Like any of these races they always seem like a good idea at the starting line. See http://www.laurelultra.com/ for deatils. I’ll run an easy 4 tomorrow night. -DougF

Great run Doug! I saw this race on the schedule and it looks like a great challenging race on interesting terrain, and may be a good stepping stone to a 100m. How much time did you spend stopping to eat, rest, work on feet?, etc – or did you pretty much grab the food + Clip, and keep running. When I did 50m at finger lakes 50’s, the course came through base camp 3 times so some people stopped to eat BBQ chicken and take short breaks. When I stopped I ate some solid food and worked on my feet and the break time added up to over 30 mins total for the whole run. I’m wondering how much break time a more experienced runner like you has at these events. Also it sounds like its a fairly hard course (with mud rocks roots and undulation (those steep ravines in the western Appalachian plain?)) – can you please elaborate for someone thinking of running this race. – Tony

Response:

I had a dual role this year being the first leg of the relay and also doing the race solo. For once this year the weather was perfect, 50’s to low 70’s under the canopy of the trees.

Neat – bet you enjoyed that for a switch I was 19th of 46 finishers in a time of 16:47.

Congratulations! 66 started which is close to a 30% drop rate which in not uncommon for this race.

For curiosity, did they drop before the end or just not make the 22-hr cutoff? It looked like many finishers were close (within a couple hours) to the 22 hr mark. Like any of these races they always seem like a good idea at the starting line. See http://www.laurelultra.com/ for deatils.

This looked like a lower key race than many you do (except FA) – and more (or at least a different kind of) fun, IMHO For curiosity, I noticed that close to 1/4 the runners finished in nominal ties (not all at once, obviously, but same time as at least one other). In this type race, I’ve always interpreted that to mean that people may tend to run together – or were there that many photo finish sprints? Just curious. I’ve noticed in many race reports that the smaller ones just seem to have a different aura (closer knit) about them. Congratulations! Enjoy your recovery! Dot — "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Response:

I had a dual role this year being the first leg of the relay and also doing the race solo. For once this year the weather was perfect, 50’s to low 70’s under the canopy of the trees. The trail is marked by the state and has permanent mile markers for every mile. When you feeling good they seem to go by like a picket fence in a speeding car. When you’re not feeling so good they take forever. I was going to do a 100 in July but I was tardy with signing up and got closed out and stuffed this race in as a last minute thought. I think the cool weather allowed me to push a little more than I should have plus the terrain was sneaky. Not a lot of overall gain and loss once you got past the first 8 mile climb but sharp undulation combined with mud, rocks and roots had a vacuum effect. I had lots of base (a 50k and 50 mile race) to get through the distance but not enough training runs on rougher terrain. A few 3 1/2 hour runs on the rougher stuff was a little shy of the proper training but I knew that ahead of time. I had a rough spell in the 50’s but pulled it back for last 15. I was 19th of 46 finishers in a time of 16:47. 66 started which is close to a 30% drop rate which in not uncommon for this race. The team ran 16:18 but they had me as the early albatross. The aid station were few and stark and hawking Gatorpiss. My relay cohorts and bride served as crew and I only had to drink one bottle of that swill. I had premixed a bunch of bottles of SUCCEED!Clip which really helped. No problems with salt as one SUCCEED!cap an hour kept the plumbing active. Like any of these races they always seem like a good idea at the starting line. See http://www.laurelultra.com/ for deatils. I’ll run an easy 4 tomorrow night. -DougF

Response:

beginning runner

admin — Sun, 06 Jun 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Basically you want to start walking and then move up as you body allows. Consider getting a physical and a real pair of running shoes from a real running store. Walk 30 minutes, run a little, like one minute out of ever five if you feel up to it and walk quickly. Do that a few times. If you body is still ok, then start running more and walking less. The goal is to be able to run for the full 30 minutes. It is not important to be able to run fast. You should notice that you are going a little further as time goes on. During this time you should be doing this three to five times a week. More is counter productive and less will mean very slow improvement. After you can run the full 30 minutes you will then start trying to add distance/time. By this time you should have a pair of real running shoes, not just athletic shoes. Your best bet here is to visit a real running store, not your local do everything sporting goods store or a general shoe store. Choosing the right shoe is more than just what feels good in the store. You should looking to be running somewhere around three miles or a little less in those 30-40 minutes. You are now ready for your first race a 5K. After that you want to add additional distance, but don’t add more than 5-10% in any one week; it could promote injuries, your body needs time to get ready. You also will want to pick at least one day to run a short buy fast distance and one day for a longer than usual run. — Dia ’s Muire duit Joseph E. Meehan Delivery delayed by IP server problems.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am 38 years old and have been weight training for years, and entered a couple of bodybuilding contests. However, i have a question…since i am getting older i want to compliment my weight training with running, because i want to train the entire package…strength, cardiovascular and flexibility. I have been jogging/walking around the track for a few months now and find myself short winded really fast… i cant even make it around once…is there something i should be doing better? how should i breath? i know its not my legs, my legs are pretty strong! i need help with my endurance…can somebody help me? thanks in advance! Bob

Response:

Running slower is the key; you can walk a lap, but you can’t sprint one – somewhere between these extremes is a jogging pace you can maintain for a lap – and if you slow down some more you will find a pace you can keep going at for a mile. Keep doing this for a while and eventually you’ll be able to go for a few miles. — Regards, Barry Running & Stuff: http://distancerunner.tmfweb.nl "The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have training logs to keep; and miles to run before I sleep".

Response:

Congratulations on adding running to your life. After a few months of training, you’ll find running an incredible joy. In fact, running is seen as very spiritual by Plains Native American Religions, and you will understand why. Just go for long slow runs for now. Also, try mixing walking and running. Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am 38 years old and have been weight training for years, and entered a couple of bodybuilding contests. However, i have a question…since i am getting older i want to compliment my weight training with running, because i want to train the entire package…strength, cardiovascular and flexibility. I have been jogging/walking around the track for a few months now and find myself short winded really fast… i cant even make it around once…is there something i should be doing better? how should i breath? i know its not my legs, my legs are pretty strong! i need help with my endurance…can somebody help me? thanks in advance! Bob

Response:

I am 38 years old and have been weight training for years, and entered a couple of bodybuilding contests. However, i have a question…since i am getting older i want to compliment my weight training with running, because i want to train the entire package…strength, cardiovascular and flexibility. I have been jogging/walking around the track for a few months now and find myself short winded really fast… i cant even make it around once…is there something i should be doing better? how should i breath? i know its not my legs, my legs are pretty strong! i need help with my endurance…can somebody help me? thanks in advance! Bob

Response:

It just takes time! Try to keep it slow to begin with and gradually increase the distance, e.g. jog one lap, _very slowly_, then walk one lap, and repeat 4 times. If you can do this, you have already run 1 mile! There are lots of beginners’ running programmes on the web, e.g. www.newrunner.com: lots of useful tips there. Good luck, and keep us informed as to your progress. Oliver.

Response:

Hey dude, I’m a big guy too so these points may help. I’m definitely no expert though so I’d seek some advice if you’re worried. 1) Always use good running shoes – they protect you from the impact and help support your feet. Go to a specialist running shop where they let you try on the shoes and watch you run to get the best ones for you. My gait is awful – I have no arch on my left foot, but a decent pair of Asics got me through a marathon last year. The rest of my running gear is about as cheap as it’s possible to get, but I never try and save money on my shoes – a good shop won’t necessarily sell you the most expensive pair anyway. 2) Always warm up and stretch before and after a run – this is very important for us big guys. Leg exercises down the gym can help strengthen the muscles around the knee, but some hands on advice from an expert will sort you out and confirm you can run ok. 3) Noone laugh at me for suggesting this! As I’m big, I take a lot of fish / cod liver oil, and eat oily fish for my joints. This may be mind over matter, but I damaged my knees in a car crash a few years ago and need to protect them. If it’s mind over matter… break it to me gently Cheers, Joe.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m 23 years old. I was a high school athlete (football and baseball), but my training was strictly limited to those sports. My playing weight was 220 pounds, but after 5 years of college and relative inactivity, I’m now 6′3" and 250 pounds. I’ve begun jogging around my neighborhood for two reasons: (1) I want to make a lifetime commitment to staying fit (2) I would like to lose some weight, for health and aesthetic reasons. I’m already having a problem with my right knee, and I think it may be due in large part to toting around 220+ pounds for the last several years I’ve determined a route that is 1 mile long and I’ve split it into 7 nearly equal parts. I run every other day and add 1/7 of a mile each time. At this rate, I’ll add a mile every two weeks. Right now I’m at approximately 2.5 miles. My current goal is to hit 5 miles, but I may raise that number once I get there. Is this a good way to get in shape? Does anyone have any suggestions for me, since I have little to no experience with distance running? Thanks very much for anything you can give me! ~Trojan

Response:

I really like your conservative approach and how you are adding 1/7th of a mile at a time… Hey dude, I’m a big guy too so these points may help. I’m definitely no expert though so I’d seek some advice if you’re worried. 1) Always use good running shoes – they protect you from the impact and help support your feet. Go to a specialist running shop where they let you try on

Amen! Amen!!! Amen!!!!! And if they blow you off because you aren’t running 50 miles per week, take your money somewhere else. When I first crossed over from swimming (190 lbs. – mostly upper body muscle and running only 10 mi/wk), one local running shop recommended a cheaper pair of shoes then what I believe I need. After running in those pair with worsening knee problems, I trashed them at only 6 months (less than 250 mi on the shoes). I went to a different shop and they spent more time evaluating my stride (barefoot and in various shoes on the treadmill). The shoes I have from them now have over 300 mi on them and I still very little knee pain. 2) Always warm up and stretch before and after a run – this is very important for us big guys.

I agree more with the warming up part…stretching (like hurdlers, butterflies and quad stretches) has not been shown to significantly reduce injuries. But there is something called dynamic stretching that’s being recommended by sports physios and PTs. (http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/articles/scni8a2.htm). I do the leg swings, hip stuff and arm swings described on the page. I also include knee circles (basically knees together, slightly bent and circle gently/softly in one direction for 15-20 seconds then reverse directions) and ankle circles (stand on one foot, rest the ball of the other foot on the ground and circle that ankle in one direction and then the other). 3) Noone laugh at me for suggesting this! As I’m big, I take a lot of fish / cod liver oil, and eat oily fish for my joints. This may be mind over matter, but I damaged my knees in a car crash a few years ago and need to protect them. If it’s mind over matter… break it to me gently

Not sure about the oily fish…but both me and my horse take glucosamine for our joints! (If you think your running heavy – look at a horse. A racehorse has 1000 lbs. of weight on legs that are very slender. Even if you divide by 4 that’s still over 250 lbs. per leg!) I take the glucosamine/chondritin combo, though not as religiously as I should. I’m fairly certain that there is a fairly good body of evidence to support glucosamine/chondritin. Other advice – If your knee continues to be a problem (even with correct shoes and glucosamine), go see your doctor to get a referral to a PT. You may be right that the weight is contributing to the problem, but the football history makes me worry that you may have other contributing factors/injuries as well. Knee problems can arise for a variety of reasons and making sure that you are physiologically sound will help. I also like the cross-training advice that Donovan brought up. I truly don’t think that swimming causes significant weight loss without a lot of time investment (3+ hrs/day), but it is a great weight to help develop a strong core and be active on a non-running day. Biking is some of the best cross training I have found and it’s a nice break for the knees. And I just learned that if you continue to have knee pain while biking – it may be a sign of IT band problems…always interesting to learn more… I think you have a great approach. Keep a positive attitude and give yourself a lot of positive reinforcement. You can do it and you are doing it! Like Donovan’s latte, I love to go buy that a book or rent that movie I’ve wanted to read/see forever after my long run. You might also considering getting involved in a fun team sports again. It doesn’t have to be anything serious…maybe a weekly drop-in basketball game, an adult kickball league, or my favorite – a pick-up or rec league ultimate game. Nothing is more rewarding to me for putting in the mileage than playing a great game of ultimate. Getting done and not being exhausted and knowing that I played well because I trained well is just such a positive reward. (On the other hand…nothing is more frustrating than a really horrible game… = ) ). peace, ~b – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cheers, Joe. I’m 23 years old. I was a high school athlete (football and baseball), but my training was strictly limited to those sports. My playing weight was 220 pounds, but after 5 years of college and relative inactivity, I’m now 6′3" and 250 pounds. I’ve begun jogging around my neighborhood for two reasons: (1) I want to make a lifetime commitment to staying fit (2) I would like to lose some weight, for health and aesthetic reasons. I’m already having a problem with my right knee, and I think it may be due in large part to toting around 220+ pounds for the last several years I’ve determined a route that is 1 mile long and I’ve split it into 7 nearly equal parts. I run every other day and add 1/7 of a mile each time. At this rate, I’ll add a mile every two weeks. Right now I’m at approximately 2.5 miles. My current goal is to hit 5 miles, but I may raise that number once I get there. Is this a good way to get in shape? Does anyone have any suggestions for me, since I have little to no experience with distance running? Thanks very much for anything you can give me! ~Trojan

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m 23 years old. I was a high school athlete (football and baseball), but my training was strictly limited to those sports. My playing weight was 220 pounds, but after 5 years of college and relative inactivity, I’m now 6′3" and 250 pounds. I’ve begun jogging around my neighborhood for two reasons: (1) I want to make a lifetime commitment to staying fit (2) I would like to lose some weight, for health and aesthetic reasons. I’m already having a problem with my right knee, and I think it may be due in large part to toting around 220+ pounds for the last several years I’ve determined a route that is 1 mile long and I’ve split it into 7 nearly equal parts. I run every other day and add 1/7 of a mile each time. At this rate, I’ll add a mile every two weeks. Right now I’m at approximately 2.5 miles. My current goal is to hit 5 miles, but I may raise that number once I get there. Is this a good way to get in shape? Does anyone have any suggestions for me, since I have little to no experience with distance running? Thanks very much for anything you can give me! ~Trojan

Hi Trojan – running is a high-impact sport and I can tell you that it’s fairly well-known (unfortunately) that beginning runners tend to improve faster in the cardiovascular sense before the connective tissues and some key muscles have time to get accustomed to it. It’s a time-lag thing that really does resolve itself, but not before discouraging many runners to quit before they ever really get started. Your program looks good on paper, and makes me think that there may be an underlying problem – perhaps you’re wearing shoes that are incorrect for your foot shape and heavy body weight. Something as simple as getting fitted with good shoes and /or a quality pair of aftermaket insoles could do the trick. Go to a real running store and pay the bucks. In the big picture, it’s a fairly cheap sport (unless you race often!) Another option is to try easing into fitness with other sports as well, along with the running. This can also prevent future injury, anyway since you will be working on different muscle groups. Also, the more you can get accomplished on a weekly basis will dictate how fast you get fit, so cross-training makes a lot of sense. I like the exercise bike a lot, and sometimes I swim. This really helps my running, as it allows me to "train more" with less wear. cheers, — David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org "The most insecure people are the ones you see putting other people down constantly."

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If you are already having knee trouble, you might want to consider sticking to walking at least until you strengthen your muscles & lose some weight. And then edge *slowly* and *carefully* into some running with the walking. You can get a good workout with brisk walking! And you can do it pretty much every day. bj

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I’m 23 years old. I was a high school athlete (football and baseball), but my training was strictly limited to those sports. My playing weight was 220 pounds, but after 5 years of college and relative inactivity, I’m now 6′3" and 250 pounds. I’ve begun jogging around my neighborhood for two reasons: (1) I want to make a lifetime commitment to staying fit (2) I would like to lose some weight, for health and aesthetic reasons. I’m already having a problem with my right knee, and I think it may be due in large part to toting around 220+ pounds for the last several years I’ve determined a route that is 1 mile long and I’ve split it into 7 nearly equal parts. I run every other day and add 1/7 of a mile each time. At this rate, I’ll add a mile every two weeks. Right now I’m at approximately 2.5 miles. My current goal is to hit 5 miles, but I may raise that number once I get there. Is this a good way to get in shape? Does anyone have any suggestions for me, since I have little to no experience with distance running? Thanks very much for anything you can give me! ~Trojan

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I am a beginning runner and am hoping to run for my high school’s cross-country team this coming school year. The problem is that I just started training this June. The team runs 5K races at each meet. I am currently running 2.5 miles every other day and hope to bump that # up soon. How can I "get up to speed" before this September? What are the proper techniques in running the 5K? Any advice would be great. Thanks. Strobe

Yo Strobe, After running your 2.5 every other day, walk/run another 2.5 so that you’re doing 2.5 plus 2.5 of walking running for a total of 5 miles. Gradually on the off days, do a 3.5 mile run at an easy pace. Right now don’t worry about speed, you need the base miles in so that you can go the 5K distance without any thoughts or worries or concerns of finishing and feeling good. Also we don’t know what up to speed means. What speed do you want to be up to? If you get up to that speed but are injured, what does it matter if you’re up to speed. Cross Country is a team sport run solo. Your coach will help you get to where you need to go in the next 3 or 4 years. Right now work on the base so that you can have fun running and talking for 8 or 10 miles with your friends several times a week. — In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer-rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975

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You’ll probably get as many different suggestions as you do responses, but here’s mine: I ran HS cross country all 4 years, and like everyone else, I was a sub 6 minute miler (but I really was). Now I’m 31 and once again a sub six minute miler, but it took a ton of work to get back there. Anyway, I would suggest you build up your mileage to 25/30 miles per week. What you need is endurance, you can already run fast, you just can’t endure a really fast pace for the whole race. If you pack on the miles, the 5K will seem trite, and a little speed work mixed in will help with your pace. Run at 70% effort for longer runs, work up to some 5 and 6 milers, or maybe occasionally longer. Once a week run some fast laps around the track at race pace. Get the mileage up though. Now that I have hindsight, I think my HS coach should have concentrated us more on medium speed distance work and only a smattering of speed work. He was just the opposite and I think it broke us down too much. Besides, the rigors of racing twice weekly is really tough on the body. Take it easy, but take it long. Hope this helps. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am a beginning runner and am hoping to run for my high school’s cross-country team this coming school year. The problem is that I just started training this June. The team runs 5K races at each meet. I am currently running 2.5 miles every other day and hope to bump that # up soon. How can I "get up to speed" before this September? What are the proper techniques in running the 5K? Any advice would be great. Thanks. Strobe